City Council Informal Meeting, 11/25/2025

All right. So, Mr. Mayor, members of city council, at this time the first briefing will be a briefing on political science.

Staff will brief city council on some background research we've done in terms of reviewing what different cities do what city different cities do as it relates to political science and also some options for city council's consideration.

Thank you, Mr. Manager, Mr. Mayor, Madame Vice Mayor, members of council.

Um, let's see. The play for this presentation is I'll give you some context about political signage, kind of how we ended up here, some of the efforts we've done. Uh then my colleague Dana Harmire from the city attorney's office will talk about some of the restrictions um as it relates to um legalities when it comes to uh freedom of speech. And then Kathy Warren, who's the director of

planning, will come and talk about zoning and enforcement of political signage. Then I'll come back up. I'll give you a bit more additional information like what the manager said, some context about what some of our peers do and then ultimately we will look to you all to see if you want us to do anything different um about how we handle political signage.

So uh political signage or expressive speech is uh governed by an administrative directive. Administrative directives directives are handled by the city manager. Um, obviously they are in alignment with where council's goals and where council wants to be, but this particular AD 3.01 outlines where folks can have expressive speech signage um particularly as it relates to voting. 7 days prior to

voting beginning, folks can put out signage uh beginning at midnight or 12:01 to be exact. Uh 7 days prior to voting. So, here in Virginia, we have 45 days of early voting. So, we have over 50 days of political signage um that we contend with. Uh we receive complaints about safety concerns and visual clutter. You all also receive complaints. Um planning received complaints, our office as well as the

attorney's office. So, it's something that once the campaign season starts, uh we we get a lot of feedback. um council requested that we look into some of the concerns and that's what we did. Um so this kind of dates back if you go back to um November of our uh presidential election it was uh pretty tense at that time when it got to um political signage. So council you wanted us to

talk to stakeholders get some feedback see if we could find a better path than where uh we were. So our office of performance and accountability, we call it OPA for short, uh interviewed stakeholders from both major parties, the Democratic party, the Republican party, our voter registar who's also here, as well as our department because as you know, voting takes place at building 14 as well as early voting

takes place at recreation centers and libraries. So sometimes our staff who are at those rec centers or libraries are put into some interesting situations when they're approached uh about signage. So we definitely wanted to get their perspectives. Um we shared uh in a CCSR some of the concerns that we got back uh from those stakeholders. Mainly it dealt with large signs at building 14

and the front. uh folks felt like there was a lot of activity and if you think back in to November 2024, there were a lot of big signs up front. Uh you had curbside voting and folks were worried about safety of pedestrians safety of being able to see. Um also lots of feedback about signage congestion that there were just a lot of signs on top of one another. Um, so what we did to try

to address that feedback was in April, we decreased the size that was allowed in front of building 14. Uh, so the largest signs were 26 x 16 in front of building 14. And then we did a better job as part of the ad. We have maps that show where you can have tents, where you can put your signage. Uh, so we improved the the maps to show that you can't put tents, can't put signs

near the ballot box. So, that was our first round of improvements that we did.

Um, and those were in place for the June election because these things always sound like they're far away, but to put it in perspective, voting for the June 17th primary started in May. Um, so, uh, signage uh, was able to go up April 25th. So, again, we deal lots of days, consecutive days with signage. Um, so we were hoping that we were going to get more positive feedback from that uh

first round of changes that we did, but we got additional complaints and more concerns. So, what we did was in June, uh, we met with what was supposed to be an hour meeting turned into a two-hour meeting, uh, with folks from both sides, uh, both parties, and we were intentional in making sure that we had folks who were part of the party as well as folks who work with candidates who

are actually running the campaign. So, the city manager joined us, the city attorney, Dana, Kathy, and myself. Uh, we met with the with these folks and I'm going to have Dana explain in a couple of minutes what the parties really were interested in was capping the number of signs per candidate or per per issue.

So, um, if you're a candidate, like four signs if you were for the referendum in question, four signs if you were against it. Uh, that runs a foul to, um, the constitution. Uh, so Dana will explain that. Um but after two hours of brainstorming and that really collaborative group where we landed was reducing the signage that was allowed even in the back would be um beneficial.

So we updated that um so that the largest sign that could be in the back was 4 feet by 4 feet. Um so that went live for this past November the gubanatorial.

Um, but as you know, we got more complaints. So, that didn't solve the issue. Um, but I'm going to have Dana come up and talk about why we couldn't do the preferred path and some other options.

So, I will say on the preferred path comment, we said that the parties could voluntarily agree among amongst themselves, but as a matter of government restriction, it was problematic. And I'll explain why. Uh 2015 is your controlling case that is Reed versus the town of Gilbert. And the town of Gilbert had a sign ordinance that had different categories of signs.

So a political signs, ideological signs, which is really a catch-all for non-commercial non-political non-mporary, uh temporary direction signs. And each one of these categories had a different rule as to size, duration, and and location uh of where the signs can be permitted. And so the Supreme Court said two things that are very important in this context. Any sign restriction or regulation that depends

on the content of the sign or requires distinctions based on the message a speaker conveys is a contentbased regulation of speech. Contentbased sign regulations are presumptively unconstitutional and subject to strict scrutiny.

So where does that leave us? So time, place, and manner restrictions are available. So a time restriction as discussed before is you could say 7 days before you know an election building 14 is available for signs or you can do a place uh which you know we've talked about the maps right or you can say that there um no signs in the 40ft restricted zone and then manner um not as

applicable to signs but you could think of it as no bull horns no amplified sound those are traditional manner restrictions. So again, you still have time, place, and manner restrictions.

And then anything that relates to the content of the sign is going to be problematic.

Um, so contentbased restrictions are presumptively unconstitutional.

So if you have to read the sign to know if it fits within a regulation, it's going to be problematic. And so this will again, as a government regulator, um, run into problems if you prescribe the number of signs per candidate or per issue. Again, you have to read the sign to know if it's regulated or dividing a space where you say one half for one party, one half for another party. Um,

or you say that the only signs we'll permit is something that's on the ballot or adjacent to something on the ballot.

So, so those three things are going to be problematic. The things that we can do that are not content based are you can simply say no signs uh adjacent to building 14 or the future location. Um, two caveats, right? So, the city would still be able to do government speech, so tell people where to go and um other required advertisements. Um and then canvasers or or campaign representatives

still get to move about um as long as they're outside of the restricted zone.

You could limit a finite number of signs, so 50 signs total. That's not related to the content. It's just based on the number. Um or you could do further refining of the the height or size limitations. uh for example, you could just say 26 in. So your yard signs is all you can get. And so we'll take questions later, but that's that's the background and the construct that we're working with here.

And so I'm just going to cover what our zoning ordinance says about temporary signage. So within a preservation, agricultural residential apartment or historic and cultural district or a non-commercial area of a PDH1 or PDH2 planned development district, a total of 16 square ft of temporary signage is permitted.

Within all of our other districts, a total of 32 square ft of temporary signage is permitted. And then in all other districts, no such sign shall be higher than 8 feet above grade directly below such sign. And then just as a reminder, you all know no signs are permitted in the rightway or on public property except for the designated polling places.

And then this slide is just discussing how we enforce this. All of our enforcement is complaintbased.

We have one zoning inspector FTE that's assigned solely to address campaign signs the August before the November election. So any election several months before in September if the election is going to be in November. All zoning inspectors address campaign sign complaints within their designated areas. And of course, they proactively remove campaign signs in the rightway or on public property. And then

those signs that are removed by staff from the rightway or p on public property are then disposed of. Signs on private property that exceed sign restriction are sent to are then sent a notice of violation to that property owner and they are asked to remove it within 30 days. And that's standard standard operating procedure for our enforcement.

So it seems like a shuffle, but this it really takes a team. Um during election season, I feel like we're all on the phone together trying to decide what's the appropriate action and we're on the phone with Christine. Um so I want to give you some context of what our neighbors are doing. Um so let's start with us. So again, we do seven days prior to voting beginning at that location. So, in building 14, that's

quite a number of days. Um, and then the other locations open up. Uh, Chesapeake prohibits private signs on p on their city property. Hampton also prohibits private signs on their property. Newport News really interested in seeing how they enforce this. Um, but essentially up to 30 days of consecutive days, three times a year for a sign. Um, Norfolk allows at the voting or polling location

the afternoon before. Um, noting that their starts at 5 um, PM. Um, sometimes what we find with ours are is that folks start camping out because you're not supposed to put them out until midnight and sometimes that's also a source of tension where the tension's building in the parking lot um, as they're waiting to be able to put out the signs at midnight. Um, Portsmith prohibits private signage and Sulfail out yard

signs on election day. Um, so that's how our peers are handling it.

So before we go and try to get your feedback, just additional context. Um, we are noticing I think you all are noticing um just growing tension and the frustration around yard signage. um when we get the phone calls, when we talk to our staff, um it's as though uh tempers are heightened, um folks are a bit more passion passionate about it. Um so on our side, we're trying to give our staff

more training on what the rules are so they can feel comfortable having conversations with the stakeholders. Um, I wanted to mention Hampton and Newport News actually when you become eligible for being on the ballot, they actually send you a packet of their signage rules and you're required to sign it saying that you've read it, you understand it, and you've reviewed it. So, we're

looking at what are some things that we can do to improve the education component of our signage. Um, but something we really wanted to also bring to your attention, our days at building 14 are numbered. I know the electoral board and uh the voter registar are excited about that. Council made an investment in um a new building uh because currently they operate from six separate buildings. So the new building

um is it's moving to the center of population for our community. But in moving there, they are no longer going to be on a government campus surrounded by government uses. Um we will actually be in a condo association. Um, and most of you haven't probably been out there.

So, we want to show you some of um, the area because when we have to do new maps for if we allow signage, where are they allowed? Um, sometimes we get commentary on there's not enough space allotted for signage. Some folks feel like there's too much space. So, we'll want to be thoughtful in how we carve out the space. So, this is going to be a video that hopefully plays the right way. You

can see that's a lot of land um for signage. Um a lot of space for potential tension of where signs go, where do tents go. What's not shown is that there's going to be a neighbor that's a non-governmental entity um to the left of that land as well as in front. Um so making sure we're being mindful of being good neighbors um while also allowing for expressive speech. Um so we will be

curious to get your feedback on how do you want us to go about drawing these maps. Uh any particular engagement you want us to do but uh that's quite a bit of land. Uh so that's our um formal portion but really interested in having some dialogue with you all based on your perspective and give us any direction um that you would like for us to take.

Rosemary and then work.

First of all, I can say it's really gotten out of control and it's visually building 14 just a mess.

has been and and the tensions between people it's not necessary and frankly for the most part I think very few people decide how they're going to vote depending on what the sign says unless there's there's a rare thing but people either they know how they're going to vote or they talk to people and they're coming in and all that not by this proliferation of signs there are so many you can't even um I personally make

for building 14 or our new condo association building that we have no signs. I think some of our sister cities that's what they're doing and I think they're wise in doing that. But where I do think we should allow signage is the day of voting where we're having I I think would be helpful because we have a lot of we have 108 precincts and some of those are

hard to find a little bit and I I think the day of uh it would be better and you think about it with the 101 system it's going to be one school board race one council race or the delegates and senator so it won't be like building 14 where there's all these races going on too. So even there it won't be [clears throat] shouldn't be quite as much. So I I think

the day of voting at the 108 precincts we should allow signage but I think it would take a lot of the and the fussing and the fighting away and the visual clutter that it creates if we just say no to everybody and that's fair to everyone. So that's my thoughts.

Okay, we're going to go hut. We're going to go work and hush.

Thank you, mayor. Thank you all for the team for doing this work and it is important and we do need to get better control of this in my opinion. To me, there's two issues or two areas built the new uh photo registars's office uh and I agree maybe this. So my question, so no signs there, but question for the city attorney. Is that constitutional, Dana, on Chesapeake? Because I thought you said we had to allow it.

Okay. So if if you see the um the second set of bullets, so it would be a contentneutral uh regulation to say no signs.

It's we can do that. Well, but you got sort of the two caveat two caveats that I made to that, right? Was you still have the government science to tell people where to go and and that sort of thing. And then you have to allow the canvaser there's an AG opinion um Virginia AG opinion about a year ago that said that the 40 foot restricted zone as it applied to canvasers was was

acceptable as far as um a a restriction on speech. So subject to those two caveats, you could say no private signs.

Yes.

Except on election day, right? Well, and and if I may on that one, um we would only speak to the locations that the city controls. Many of those polling locations are private churches, what have you. So, we would only speak to the city locations.

Yes. One church in my district does not allow election day at all, which I'm fine with that as well. So, the second part to me, which also is causes a lot of discussion and passion around town, is the runup to election day starting as early as June. Yard signs are okay to me for if if candidates want to get folks to put yard signs in their own private property, but along our public streets

and last this past year was a lot, but it's always a lot. And I just think it it's really bad. But look how much time I just heard you all say. All three of y'all and more your staffs are involved with this and it takes up it's distracting from your work and it [clears throat] costs the city money and I have as much concern about that your efficiency as much as I do um I think

public safety and these signs are very close to the road and I've put signs out. There's no question about it. I'll be I'll admit that as much as anyone else, but uh close to the road, but I do respect um public safety, but it's a fine line because it it is free speech. Um but we do see a lot of signs in the public rideways on the runup. I mean, June, July, August,

September, all those months costs money.

It's dangerous to put the signs out.

It's dangerous to pull the signs back up. Dangerous to drive the cars. And I agree signs don't necessarily influence, but it does say the presence of the campaigns. It's it's tough and it's free speech, but it I'm just concerned how much time it takes staff to this is a big city geographically and I I heard you all say this right here and how many inspectors, Miss Warren or I mean are

have to do you all have territories across the city on So, we do we have several inspectors and once we get closer to the election in their territories, they start picking the signs up and and addressing them in each territory.

So, I I'm just putting this out there. I I like to sign maybe sign off can campaigns should sign off on a sign package when they receive documents and then I don't want penalties. I'm just putting this out there for discussion, but should they should a campaign get us a a letter if a certain amount of signs are picked up or or I'm just putting this because it it's it's sign pollution. It's expensive and takes up

staff's time.

Okay. H then Okay. Um, so first off, uh, I the vice mayor and I have spoke several times about this along with some other colleagues and we feel pretty strongly that they should either be shrank drastically, you know, the number or do away with, I think, is where we're at.

This is talking to some of the delegates and it's just been interesting to me and like I like to joke I've I've run two campaigns in what most everybody's run one. So I got some experience with it and the expense the expense to our people. I was on a firstname basis with a lot of your folks trying to do the right thing because you do put some down sometime and you're like you don't

realize it's in the wrong spot even though the registar gives you a li we get a packet. I say that but it's just kind of like when Dana explained a minute ago I'm still lost. So you know you try to you try to you try to take it all in but mistakes are made and you try to work with it. Part of it for me is the perpetual ones that are just thrown

up everywhere. Um, we still have some and I've been meaning to pick them up.

They're in Woodstock. They're not mine, but they're at the school. They're in Woodstock Elementary. They're still sitting out by the by the street. I've picked up a bunch of signs along the way just to get rid of them. At first, you're like a little leery, but then it's like, okay, now we're two weeks past, you know, just get rid of them.

Um, so I'll get them. I'm not asking anybody to go do it. But I I know, but I'm just saying I I just keep forgetting. Um, but back to what I was saying. Uh, I'm really uh more in the camp of zero is better, you know. Uh, I spent a lot of time, y'all, at the Kimsville Library the last two election cycles. A lot. Almost like camping. So, and the signs are atrocious. It's It's

like a kaleidoscope. You can't you can't see through things. out on the main road there's lines of delineation. I mean, it feels like this is just not proper, you know? It just feels it feels uh nasty, you know? It doesn't I don't see where it adds any value. And and talking, like I said, like I like to say about my diner guys, you know, at the diner, they all think it's crazy. They're like, you

can't even tell when you're looking at it going down Chemile Road. I guess you could throw a dart and maybe pick a name that it hits on cuz you can't you can't even read them. There's so much in front of you to try to pay attention to. Not to mention, and I know this is not our responsibility necessarily as a body, but as the person when you're buying all this stuff and you having to figure that

in, it it kind of goes to something else I'm going to be talking about here in a little while is is that it's it just feels it feels over the top and just not necessary. And like the vice mayor said, I don't think anybody's walking up and going, "Oh, I'm going to oh, Hutch, I'm going to vote for him." that that's my that's why I'm going to vote. I just don't think it's what it's about. And

the and the semi getting violent part that I was a part of with you two um last year. Well, I mean, not with y'all.

Not with y'all.

For the cameras. For the cameras.

You weren't getting by.

John, I'll do an interview with you later.

Um Amy's dying right now.

[clears throat] the Thanksgiving.

It didn't feel real good for all of us being out there with what was getting what was the tempers were flaring over the signs. And I think there's got to be some adults in the room and that's what we're here for. So, I'm really for uh cutting them way down or doing away either numbers that we can say this is what you get total or zero is is probably fine. And then election day,

you can put up even a number there should be made to how many you can have at Fairfield Elementary or wherever the other polling places are. So I hope I got to where you where I was trying.

Thanks.

Good. And I know the diner. I go to the diner.

Yes, you do.

And I think about Port Rocky Hulcom. How many elections he's been through in the last couple months.

Yeah. Okay. [clears throat] Let's go Josh and Stacy.

Thank you, mayor, and uh thank you very much for the presentation. Sorry, I was a little late. Um we got a farther from Bayside than some of the rest, but um I I agree with everything that's been said. Um only thing I I'd really like to add is um the environmental piece. Um the signs are destructive to the environment. Um they're all over the place. They still are. We drive all over

the place. I mean, and and we see them and and uh and they shouldn't be up anymore. Um and and this is I I would I would just like to just call like call to our citizens. Um please don't put them in the rightway. Please don't put them in the medium. And if you want to go do that, go pick them up cuz they're still out there. Um and um

you know may maybe something we can do is like a a strict a medium and a light option and can we bring it back to our retreat to talk about like during the process thing. Um I I don't know if like when a decision needs to be made but I mean if we could have maybe a couple different options to consider. Um, and then the only other thing I'd add is is

um um you know just and this goes to what you were saying Hutch, um about like allowing people to understand the kind of jobs that we have and what it takes and how much it costs and all of that.

Um [clears throat] but there's a different side of that. I remember, and I'm sure you probably all do, I ran for the first time um years ago, and what it felt like to see somebody in your neighborhood take a sign that you gave to them because they believed in you and put it in their yard. I It's unreal to think about. It was like pinch myself kind of crazy to to think that somebody

would support me enough to have their name in their front yard. um and and running for the first time. Um we all I guess get to do that once, but um when you run and you don't have name ID um those signs do help like on the reinforcement side. Um and [clears throat] yeah, they're clutter and yeah, they're environmental problems, but um but anyway, I just thought I'd throw that out. So, I hope

we find some balance and I'd love to see some options. Okay, Stacy.

Um, take a little bit of a different approach and but first I'll say anything that we do, anything any ordinance that we put in place or any kind of restriction we try to put in place and this is not uh accusatory of anyone but without equitable enforcement it's meaningless and could potentially be harmful.

So I think that we can talk about how we want to restrict these but unless we come up with a mechanism to make equitable enforcement then we are we could be potentially doing harm to candidates. And secondly um Yogi Bar once said nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. Well, that's a little bit of my thinking on these signs, you know, that uh why put these signs out? Nobody goes, nobody votes

because you have a sign out there. Well, maybe they don't vote because you have a sign out there or whatever. But if you don't, you know, if you just surrender to to the opponent, then they're going to have all these signs out there. And unless you counter, unless you unless you add to the confusion, unless you unless you cause the confusion, then you're surrendering that that ground. So, um, you know,

people are going to, as long as they're allowed to, people are going to put signs out, okay? and they're not going to voluntarily restrict and they're not going to voluntarily comply unless there is equitable enforcement. So, um, this idea that signs are a waste or signs don't work or sign, as long as there's campaigns, there's going to be signs as and unless we do away with them, and I'm fine with that

if we're going to do away with them.

But, um, we really need to think about how we're going to enforce this and with being fair to all the candidates all the time. We have some voting precincts that are on city property. So if we reduce it and say no, you know, no signs on city property, then candidates that have uh their precincts on city property could be at a disadvantage versus if they're at a church or there some other

uh place where signs are allowed, you know. So there's a lot to be thought here and um I don't think there's an easy answer and I think it's something we should discuss and but again without enforcement it's going to add to the flaring of tempers and only encouraging you know bad behavior. Hey, Millia and Jennifer, thank you so much um for all of the information you've given them. Um over

the years, we've noticed from where you cannot touch anybody else's sign. If they put it up, you don't touch it until they come to get it down. That was one situation 2010 2011. Another thing was within what council member Remick and Cummings mentioned where you put the long ago they weren't put in front of the churches until it was actual the day before or so forth but you actually now

see a church with what they're because there's a difference between church and state. So you know how do you all address something like that?

This is something we really need uh to discuss.

Jennifer, thank you Mayor. Um, one I hadn't thought about something until you mentioned it, Stacy. And it might not be for you all. It might be that like the local party organizers that already, and I'm sure those of us who have campaigned as well know our precincts. I'm curious about the division of like private versus public precinct places. So, for example, do some districts um have more

schools and libraries and more churches?

And I I would be interested in what that breakdown looks like as we're making this decision to make sure that the decision doesn't unduly affect one district and one candidate over another.

Um but I do have a question on the restriction. So say for example if [snorts] we were to say let's reduce the number in the total count to 50 on uh you know at the new registars's office would that be 50 total or like 25 for each and whether someone's independent and they're like I'm not in it you're just like that's just all signs and you talk about tension if that's

what we're trying to reduce I don't see that helping us.

I agree it won't help you but the rule is The rule is stated down there, the second from the bottom, a finite number of signs on the property irrespective of content. And so, uh, that would be 50 total.

I don't see that direction as helpful at all. If our goal is to help minimize all the pressures that people are feeling for the people working there, the voters who are trying to get there, but the parties and the candidates, too. So, this is sounding all or nothing.

Mhm.

To me. Anybody else? Okay, let me say this. Um, it's not unusual when people compete for space. It's kind of like a bodybuilding contest when everybody tries to get in front of each other, you know, take up space. It really is because you'll go to some polling spots and you'll see 25 yard signs right after another taking up space in front of everybody else. And I think that's where

the tension's gone. And you know, to be fair and equitable, there was a time uh before social media and uh all other things where you were talking about name recognition. you know, signs are a very small part of getting your message out now. That wasn't always true in the past.

And um you know, the thing is with tensions and let's put it this way, we have a high temperature uh going around everywhere in this nation when it comes to politics these days. And I think anything that we can do to deescalate and I think it was a point made that a person's yard sign in front of people's property you know really gives a message but when you take a look you know they

have this thing you know term noise you know even when you see a whole bunch of stuff at one time it's rough to process one thing okay so when you go to these places uh so I kind of like Rosemary's idea, you know, it's uniform and it's enforcable and, you know, the board of elections can come around with no signs and if people want to put a finite number up on election day, you know, I think

that's kind of a fair compromise. I know some folks ain't going to like that. But the point is though, and you know, once again, I'm still driving around and I still see signs up, you know, sometime 4x4s, you know, from, you know, the previous election. I think if there's going to be an enforcement that uh, you know, when I first got elected, I had a constituent say, you know, can you take

down your signs within 48 hours, please?

I'll vote for you. Yeah. And they actually had a picture of me and the pilot doing it because I went out and did it.

[snorts] Um, but I'm just saying that fairness to everybody. Uh, it signs are more meaningful when they're in the neighborhoods.

And you know, when the point is though, it's kind of like visual pollution.

Uh, and it really I don't think goes and I tell you what I think especially these days in the polarized state of politics when people go to the polls, they already have a pretty good idea, you know, who they're going to be voting for. So my recommendation did you want to say I had something it it also puts our staffs in a terrible position because fighting amongst the different people

and I must say who's right or wrong it doesn't really matter there we all know that there's tension and there's fighting that goes on and it puts our staff whether they're the electoral board or in front of Bayside Rec Center or whatever it puts them it takes them away from their jobs and puts them in a very difficult spot. And if we don't have any signs out there, that's easy.

You know, everybody's treated the same and they can you can have your pole workers and and they can hand out stuff and all none of that should change.

Just think how on television you whenever they're talking about voting, they always focus on Virginia Beach's signs because all of those other cities don't allow those signs and we do. And so they show all of those proliferation of the signs because there's so many and it's such a mess. So I I think it would really also help our staff. I didn't mean to go.

No, no, no. You're fine. Stacey, do you have something?

I I for all kind of saying here seems to me the real solution is all or nothing.

Yes. To try to mitigate and limit u hard to enforce.

Yeah.

Okay. Why don't we do this? Uh why don't we go ahead and uh you know draft a resolution uh you know basically uh you know what we've been talking about I think what Rosemary said uh you know uh none on you know city property and then on election day uh you know a finite amount of uh thing you know and put it out there and I don't know if you want

even have a public hearing on it prior to or you know so this way uh you know people can come forward and speak. But you know, I think we got to get it out there. And you know, my friends, we have we are so blessed to have an election every year. You know, especially uh you know, the folks at you know, the voter registar um you know, we can't have our

folks in the voter registar, you know, wearing you know, you know, black and white striped shirts with a whistle, you know, because they get into the middle of a lot of this stuff when there's disputes. So it would be okay to go forward a resolution. Jennifer clarity.

So Friday night on election day is that like what can we do? Is that per candidate? Is that per polling site and putting it? I know like the education packet. So when candidates know, hey okay, Mr. Mayor, I I would say if you if you all land on election day only, I would say like allow us to carve a finite location rather than rather than pick a finite number because then you

may end up with 50 Jane Doe signs cuz they took up the whole number. So I think if you allow us at the public polling stations to carve out a finite location where they can go then you know obviously we'll make sure it's public facing so the public can see it right you know but if you give us [clears throat] that boundary that's probably better and it's one day so I think it will help a lot

and what about setting a time like maybe 6:00 p.m. before election day or midnight. You have people out driving around between 12 and 4:00 in the morning, which is kind of crazy.

It's kind of like March Madness.

I think one of the cities we saw at 5:00 p.m.

whenever they close that.

You want a half hour or so to get them off, you know, [clears throat] something like whatever.

I mean, you want to set a time. If you're only going to do it like that one day, you probably need to say what that time is of that one day.

If they seem more to me, I I I don't know exactly what you mean by setting a finite space. But so therefore, if one candidate were to get there early and put a 100 signs in that one space, not allowing not allowing for any other I mean, because I I have a great picture here of what happened right here at building 14. you know that so certain candidates would just take up

all the space and not allow space for other candidates and I don't know that that that's not going to solve the problem.

Well, the other thing is too give Rosemary a consideration that you know just make it you know even on election day people know what they're doing and they're going to have poll workers out anywhere more than likely.

Just you know men them all together.

buy it and then if a problem look at the back exactly just worth and then Josh and also do we consider the size as a size should it be no more than 16 square feet which is we might be banning sign on election day on election day 16T 4x4 yeah me or something somewhere yeah I I just think that you know the big sign I don't know kind of a thing that you know sometimes

I think yard signs are as effective as the big ones.

Agree.

Um so I'm just trying to hone in a little bit. So we were saying maybe 5 or 6 p.m. the day before otherwise none.

Um unless it's on private property. But did we talk about like and you had suggested are there a limit like is it ton signs per precinct?

That's what I was going to ask it like Patrick said you know that might be a problem but I mean Mr. Mayor it sounds like um it like it's not perfect right because as Mr. Cummings pointed out it could cause a problem. I was also going to ask mayor, you mentioned maybe you limit the size of the sign, so you location and yard signs too. You know, I know a lot

of big signs and that may possibly help as well.

Um, so just just as a followup because there was one more point I was going to make about the size of the signs and um and it speaks to just how much I love partisanship in local elections. Um but um the the parties have their you know and I think we need to talk to the parties just because they're participants. Um I don't like seeing those big signs with all the left or

right endorsed candidates but it's a fact of life they exist. So I think we need to and those are larger than your typical signs. So, I I would maybe just respectfully ask, mayor, if before we do an ordinance, maybe we kind of think about some of these variables and then and then bring it back. But I and I I do want to do something though, and I think less is more.

Yeah. Let's go, Patrick. And so, Mr. Mayor, y'all asked for some information. We could get you that information, right? ask for um the breakdown of um like private versus um public polling stations in the precincts, we can give you that information. We can give you a draft resolution that we can share amongst you all and you all can consider it. I mean, we're getting towards the end of the year. So,

this may be something that council will take up in January, you know, and give you all some time to kind of process it, to kind of think before you if we possibly make this shift. You can think about it before you make the shift.

Yeah, I was going to recommend a draft resolution that we work on. Touch.

I didn't have any more. Thanks.

Yeah.

All right. I want to go to I just had one thing when you mentioned about the size. Sometimes not only each person will have their signs, but we have groups like an organization will have signs that have all their people.

That's a different size. So that should be considered as well.

Yeah, let's go ahead with the draft resolution and we'll chat about it.

Okay.

All right. Great. Hey, thank you. That that was the toughest fin.

Oh Lord.

All righty. All right. So, Mr. Mayor, members of council, at this time, if council recalls um before um the summer recess, council asked us to think of an idea where we can incentivize residents to come to the oceanfront and enjoy the restaurants and the different um activities at Oceanfront. So, staff asked us to kind of think about a a free oceanfront parking program. staff has been working

to put that together and staff wants to um present a presentation to give you options to consider. Also, as part of that presentation, we talked about the fact that the parking enterprise fund is a a parking enterprise fund not necessarily supported by the by the general fund and to move to free and to and to increase that risk, we will probably need to look at additional cost increases for parking in these garages

and these lots. So staff will give you a concept of what that would look like should we want to move forward with this um with the free program that we're presenting today. The next voice you'll hear will be LJ Hansen. He's going to go over the program and introduce um our new parking administrator.

Good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor, members of city council. Uh it's my pleasure this afternoon to deliver some really good news. And that really good news is that hopefully this is the last time you're going to hear from me on a parking presentation.

Um, all jokes aside, uh, the the city is very fortunate. We were able to, uh, find a very qualified applicant in John Crawford. Uh, John has, uh, over 24 years of experience. John, would you mind standing up just so they can see you? So, John Crawford comes to us uh, from Manitou Springs in Colorado. Uh, he's also worked in Colorado Springs in Wilmington, North Carolina. He has over

24 years of experience. He is a PTMP which is an accreditation in the parking program. And I also want to take this opportunity to thank uh Taveris Parker and Tavveris Parker has been filling uh some very big shoes and helping me try and muddle through uh what we've been working on for the last couple of months. Uh but it is my pleasure today to talk to you about what we've come up

with uh in regards to oceanfront parking and resident uh uh parking at the oceanfront.

So, a little bit of background. Uh staff has presented uh on the parking fund to city council and this topic on February 18th and July 1st. Uh city council uh you all asked us to investigate the potential for free or discounted parking in the resort area for VB Virginia Beach residents. Uh, this presentation is going to give you what we believe is a good recommendation at this point, the

best of our knowledge, something that we think is workable and something that we think offers real value to the residents of Virginia Beach.

Um, as the manager pointed out and and I I feel compelled to remind everybody, uh, the parking fund is an enterprise fund. That means that as an enterprise fund, it is required to sustain itself to the degree that is possible. That means that it is not generally supported by the general fund. Now, I I'm putting some caveats in there because the general fund and sometimes the tip do

help uh with construction of parking facilities, but the day-to-day operations really should be supported as an enterprise fund. Um it is not also a revenue stream for the city's general fund. That means anything that we generate in the parking fund does not come back to offset um taxes.

And that revenue is specifically used for the operating, cleaning and maintaining of the parking facilities and um the elevators, keeping the paint fresh, making sure that the shrubbery that gets run over gets replaced. There's a lot of expenses that go into just running the parking system.

So, [clears throat] as we looked at uh what council asked us to do, we came up with a couple of objectives that we thought we heard. And one was to create a resident parking program for use at the oceanfront. And today, when I speak of the oceanfront, I'm specifically talking about that area that exists between Pacific and Atlantic. So, what we oftentimes call the 100 and 200 blocks at at the oceanfront. There's one

exception. We're also going to throw the 25th Street garage in because it functions in much the same way as the rest of the oceanfront parking does. Uh that's on the other side of Pacific.

It's on the west side of Pacific. But for the most part, we're talking about that area between Pacific and Atlantic.

And so this would not count uh say the Atlantic Park development. It's not going to count the sports center, civic uh convention center that I just spoke about a couple weeks ago.

Um, we also were hoping to provide streamlined parking payment and validating a validation process. Uh, I spoke to you before about some of the challenges of having a resident program and understanding exactly what a resident means and how we're going to validate that that person is still a resident, that they didn't uh move from from our city to say Chesapeake or some other city and still have something on

their on their driver's license that that is not correct. Um, we want to make sure that we modernize and incentivize whatever it is that we do and that ultimately that it enur encourages turnover in high demand areas and specifically that's going to be to a large degree that's the on street parking which is real close to the to the front end and I think we have some uh interesting ideas.

So, um, with that in mind, I I just also want to point out that we have several programs that exist today. And this is not a comprehensive list of all of the programs that the parking program runs, but it this does give you some idea of some of the things that we already do to incentivize or to try to foster specific behaviors at different areas. Uh, we have an existing residential discount,

which is $3 after 5:00. Uh we have on street parking which is our our regular rate is $2 per hour but by code that $2 per hour is limited on street to no more than three hours. So that's by code. Um we have monthly parking uh rates that are available for either residents that live adjacent to the parking or some people use it on on a more frequent basis. Now, today that rate is $50 a

month for non-reserved spaces and $100 a month for reserve space. We also have a week a weekly parking program uh which is $50 a week. And if you look at what is that bullet four and bullet three, you'll say, "Well, why would you pay $50 a week if you could pay $50 a month?"

And there really is some differences in the program, some subtle nuances.

Um in in garages, we pay $2 an hour. Uh there's a max of $20. Uh and then the rates renew uh daily at 5:00. [snorts] We also have uh a seasonal lot permit which is is pretty popular. U that's a $70 for the first permit and then if you have a second uh h house or a second permit in the house, it's a $10 for the second permit. And then we have a number

of residential programs uh that are listed on the bottom.

So, our recommendation to council at this time would be to introduce a $50 annual resident parking voucher, and that would be renewed annually with proof of residency. Uh, that voucher would have credits usable at the locations and on street spaces identified as the oceanfront service zones. And that's that area that I just told you about between Pacific and Atlantic. It wouldn't be useful outside

of those areas. So this wouldn't affect Sandbridge, Croatan, Atlantic Park. This would be specifically for the ocean front surface zones. Uh the program uh is designed to be a digital voucher, meaning that you would have to have a digital account with us on your phone.

It would track it would help us to track uh usage by residents. It would that would be really critical for helping us to understand where residents uh want to use and and also be able to feed back with the residents and be able to push out some messages and help them to understand events that might be ongoing if we're having particular p uh parking challenges during the summer months and

also help us to understand where they're going and what it is that they're seeing. Um we would offer an opportunity to reload that voucher after you use your $50. uh that that would be for the for a first reload, we'd allow you to pay $25 and get another $50 worth of of parking in the in the course of the same year. So, for basically $25, you'd get $100 worth of parking. We think that

represents a very good uh value for the residents. Uh it demonstrates council's commitment to affordability and it also uh helps us to create a a measure of retention and and and uh program loyalty.

Uh these are the facilities that that I've identified. Uh so the lots the the second street, fourth street and Rudy loop lots. Uh garages would be 9inth street, 25th and 31st street.

It also includes on street metered spaces for that same area. So this is the area between Rudy Loop and 38th Street. both those spaces that are available on Atlantic and those spaces that are on the side streets, the 200 block as we call it, uh between the same area between Rudy and 38th.

There are a couple of modifications that we are suggesting to the existing fee program though. We think that this is going to have an impact to the parking fund and we do need to make a couple of adjustments to help keep us right sized and uh we want to make sure that we're not doing an impact to the parking fund, but we're also trying to be fair um and and trying to be still responsive to

what uh we're hearing as feedback from the community. We are recommending to eliminate the $3 after 5:00 p.m.

resident discount, but if you have $50 in credits, we think that that is a way that helps to kind of offset that cost to to the residents. It's also a particularly difficult discount to uh apply. It's difficult for us to because it require usually requires somebody to be there or they have to call a number, they have to text a number. It's it's a just a little bit more of a challenge.

Um, we're also recommending eliminating the three-hour on street parking maximum. Um, and again, that's by code.

So, if council decides to go this way, that's something that we would have to address through a code amendment.

Um and then we also have a progressive pricing strategy that we're proposing uh a new hourly structure and this is um actually designed to help us move vehicles from um for longer stays to move them from the street parking towards the garages and lots. But it actually offers quite a bit of a discount for the first little bit. So we think that there's there's additional value that's here for the residents and

for our visitors. So again, if I remind you today, it's $2 an hour flat rate.

Every hour it's $2 an hour. Now, that is unless there's a parking garage where we have um some type of an event. We do have peak pricing. There are certain days of the year where we just charge a flat rate of $20, but I'm I'm talking in our general over overall rate. It's $2 an hour. What we're proposing is a progressive pricing strategy. So, for the first hour, it would only be a

dollar. If you just want to stop in uh grab an ice cream with the kids or you want to grab a slice of pizza or something like that, you can do this. Uh and that's in the on street surface lots or garages. A dollar for the first hour, $2 for the second hour. Uh that would line up with pretty much what we have today. So if you only stay for two two

hours, you can get in and get out for a dollar less than it cost you today. Now, when you go to the third hour, there's a little bit of a difference between what we're doing on the on street surface lots and garages as we move forward. Uh on street, it'd be $3 for the third hour. Uh hours four and five would be $6 an hour. Hours six and seven, $7 an

hour. And eight and over would be $8 an hour. So, the incentive is really to move away from on street parking. If you're going to stay for five, six, seven hours, not parking on street would be your best choice. it would be far smarter to move to the garages to a surface lot. In those cases, we're just proposing to change that for hours three and and more to $3 an hour with a daily

max of $24, which is a little bit higher than it is today. Um, we don't think that this is going to represent a significant change to most of uh most of the users, but for those users that come and stay for long periods of time, which are the people that were really trying to incentivize to move to the surface lots and garages, this should provide that incentive. Um, there's some footnotes on the bottom though, just

just so that you have them. Um, on street parking, there's no time limit.

Again, that's our proposal. Um, parking is between the hours of 6:00 am and 2:30 a.m. the next day. Uh, Rudy Loop is a little bit different. The enforcement there is from 10:00 a.m. to 2:30 a.m.

And that has to do with the fisherman surfers. Uh, that's a longtime commitment that the city has made to those organ to those groups. Um, in the surface lots and garages, the hours the same as the on street 6 am to 2:30 a.m.

Um, we have a couple of other recommendations as far as the pricing strategy goes. Um, [sighs] we would, uh, recommend increasing the unreserved monthly parking rate, which is currently $60 a month, to $100 a month, and uh, increasing the reserved monthly parking rate, which is currently $100 a month to $150 a month. Uh we did some limited uh evaluation of other communities such as Norfick, Wilmington,

Richmond. We're right in line with where they are. Those numbers line up very close to what we're seeing in those other communities.

Uh we're also recommending to increase the seasonal lot permit. If you recall, it's currently $70 with the second one at $10. We're recommending changing that from $70 to $100 and eliminate the discount on the second permit. Um we we think that that is a fair rate and and is appropriate.

Um by making these changes, we expect to see a a turnover in the prime oceanfront spaces, specifically the on street area.

Uh we're anticipating to have uh enough revenue growth to cover the expected loss uh as a result of of the free uh voucher. And um that growth then should be able to help us offset capital maintenance and operational needs. We're expecting to gain a lot of insight into how our residents are parking or using the system and uh we're really hoping to increase resident satisfaction and also

our our businesses at the oceanfront. We know that this is something that they're very much interested in and we hope that this will recommend that this recommendation will give them some measure of what they're looking for.

Uh in order to make all this happen though we are requesting one additional FTE and this FTE would be in the parking fund. This is not a general fund position. Um, this position we believe is necessary to help us with the enrollment, the being able to keep an eye on whether uh the annual verification of residency, uh, being able to help people reload their cards, that type of thing. I say their cards,

it's not a card, it's a digital account.

Yeah.

Um so next steps should council uh like this proposal and and ask us to move forward. Uh what we would propose to do next would be to start making the technical adjustments. There's a couple of things we have to do on the back end to make this available and also to be able to uh make it something that's really easy for our residents to be able to access to be able to see what their

um balance is and and to be able to see what's happening with their account. Uh so there's some work we have to do on the back end. uh we would have to bring an ordinance modification to city council to modify sections 21 322 and 21 323 which are the sections in city code that uh have the three-hour limit on metered parking and then uh we would propose to begin the program April 1st

2026 which if you recall that's the same date that we're proposing to make the changes at the sports center convention center and that lines up with when we start charging again in our lots Uh registration though we would expect to begin in the first quarter of 2026. I can't give you an exact date yet because we're still trying to figure out the technical aspects. And with that I'd be

happy we will be happy to take any question.

This is quite an interesting proposal.

Thank you for working so hard on it. And it's it's really it's out of the box thinking. I I really think that. So I just want to make sure that this is [clears throat] an opt-in program.

Correct. Yes, ma'am.

So, people have to opt in, but they're going to get a $50 worth of free parking if you are a City of Virginia Beach resident.

Yes, ma'am.

Um, and then if you want more, you get it for half price for the for one reload. Just just one reload. It can't we can't do that forever. I think that would would offer a real challenge, would you? Okay. But that's still that's still a pretty good deal.

Can you explain how the digital how it works? I mean, say someone like me that's maybe a little bit challenged digitally, how I would how I would use it.

I I'm going to let John take that question. John's a little way more technically savvy than I am. But one thing I wanted to point out because you pointed out that this is an opt-in program and I think that's a a really valuable point. But even if they choose not to opt in, if we select this, if you look at the the progressive pricing strategy, even if they don't opt in for

hours one, two, and three, they're they're at neutral. If they only stay for two hours, it's a dollar less than it is today. If they stay for an hour, uh it's a dollar less than for everyone.

That's correct. And so I I think and and I I really do want to give credit to Taver and John. They came up with this with the pricing strategy. I'm not blaming it on them. If you hate it, if you hate it, it's my fault. But if you like it, I I do want to give them credit because they put a lot of work into this.

It's really It's really fascinating. And I before he explains uh how it works, I guess we always have to This is an enterprise fund, so we have to look at the finances and make sure that we're going to be sound financially with this program. And I'm sure you must have done that.

We did to the extent we can. It's really hard to know how many people are going are going to want to sign up. I I think that there's a there's a percentage of the population that is going to say, "Ah, I just don't want to do it." And we think that the progressive pricing strategy offers them something. There's a percentage of people that are like, "Yeah, yeah, let's do this. Let's sign up for

this." Um, and we think, but we can't judge what that is. Um, there's always the possibility, we come back to you and say that the resident parking program is so successful, we might need to adjust some of the rates, but we really believe that there's that there's enough in here to to to at least get us through a year and be able to use those metrics that we learned along the way to figure out how

people are using it.

Well, and a married couple would each get $50, right? [clears throat] Yes, ma'am. That was that was one of the that was a good talking point. We you know, a couple get a $100 with a free bottle.

Yes. No, it's enough. You explain how it works.

John, do you want to explain how that how the app would work?

How the app might work? Yes, please, sir.

Welcome to the baptism by fire.

Uh, thank you. I've had experience with other councils and I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone here. So, u, and just for the record, I'm John Crawford. I'm the new parking administrator for the city of Virginia Beach, and thank you for allowing me to be here. Um our our plan is to have on a mobile payment app um the app to be determined at this point. We're evaluating two or three different

providers, but we know that they can all support this type of program. It's commonly referred to a couple of different ways. If you look at other cities, is either a voucher program where the people register and we provide a voucher that's assigned to their account or uh is what's called a wallet.

A lot of the uh mobile parking applications have a way you could just load a certain amount of money onto uh your account and draw off of it so you're not using your credit card every time you pay. We could piggyback on that type of a a situation. So, we're going to evaluate what we think is the easiest way to roll this out and easiest for people to use, but it will be through a

mobile app situation. Um can I speak [clears throat] to the money a little bit or you want me to stay away from that? So, uh, we it LJ is exactly right.

It's very hard, especially with the on street, to try to judge how this is going to impact us financially because you've had an artificial, uh, 3-hour cap. Uh, I think in the long run, I'll just to speak, I think that in the long run, we'll collect more money, but the people that are used to using it as a three-hour option will actually be encouraged to come down a little bit

more. As LJ said, you want to buy that piece of pizza, you want to get a coffee, you just want to meet somebody for a few minutes, the ice cream, all that is a benefit to the residents uh that want to use the on street uh off streetet and the three parking garages.

I did some very very rough calculations and again it's hard to say how this is going to impact people when they make a decision based on the cost of the garages but I would think that it would be somewhere around 2002 225,000 minimum added to the program from that but it could be considerably more if people do tend to stay to the you know 8 n 10 hours because they are uh long-term uh

facilities so I I think it'll be very positive and my goal when I was presenting and talking to LJ and um Taveris. So, we wanted to try to get something to help people want to go down to the beachfront to support the business as well. And I think that gives you this overall program.

Don't run away.

Thank you so much.

Okay, Worth, you're up.

Thank you, Mayor. Um LJ and John and Taver, welcome. Uh congratulations.

Good luck. Um Mr. Mr. Hansen, could you uh describe to us the offseason free parking on on Atlantic Avenue? Does this how does this work with that? And does this change any of that?

This what we're proposing today. I'm not we're not proposing a change to the offse.

There is separate from this a um work group that is working on the capital improvements to Atlantic Avenue. Um, there have been some discussions about what on street parking looks like moving forward. And there have been discussions about whether that will be um a year round proposal or not a year- round proposal. Our recommendation is if it's year round, we would we would propose to eliminate the offse

free parking on Atlantic Avenue, but that still remains to be to seen. I just wanted to put it out that that's a conversation, but we're that's not part of this proposal today.

Just to clarify, offseason parking in a parking deck is free or is it do you pay in a parking deck? There is no offseason. We pay we pay year round in parking decks. That's correct. In the in the surface lots though, we do not pay between November 1st and April 1st.

Anybody else?

A and thank you all so much. welcome the board. Um this whole idea will be good for all districts because we have people who are coming you know whether it's district 4 or along these areas that now we have an incentive [cough] to come [clears throat] down to the ocean front because many of them think well it's off and we working for having not just on off season but year round.

So this will be good and we'll ask our communications office to share this to explain to people you know how it works and nowadays a lot of people [cough] you know [clears throat] technology savvy.

Yeah.

So thank you for coming up with this because it will benefit all districts.

Yes ma'am. Thank you.

Yeah I think it's really creative the turnover issue. So, I think that's a way to not limit uh access to parking per se, but to incentivize moving to say you can stay here, but you'll have to pay more and more. And hopefully that will motivate people to only use it for an hour, two hours, then keep the spots open. So, I think that's a really creative way to try to address that

issue without um denying access to spaces. So, just want to thank you all for thinking this through.

Thank you.

Okay, anybody else? Yeah, I tell you what, this is I think a very good presentation and uh you know, as Rosemary often said, we want people from all over Virginia Beach coming to the ocean front and I think this would help.

And the other thing is, you know, we over the last couple of years have becoming more and more a year round destination. Uh you know, the hopefully the shoulder season and the winter season will be no longer as seasons. uh you know with the uh you with the bringing on the dome and uh the Ser Park and you know number of the activities and you know certainly the sports center has been uh you know very popular

um and then you know I think there's going to be a new energy uh you know right around you know the uh 20th Street area that we haven't had before. So, but once again, I think as we're looking forward, you know, this is uh something that's needed at the time to accommodate, you know, what we what we've been working on, what we have accomplished. Thank you very much.

Thank you, and welcome aboard.

Thank you, sir.

We got a whole bunch of folks for this one.

All right. So, Mr. Mayor, members of council at this time. Um, we want to brief city council on really probably um the biggest portion probably one of the biggest projects that's including our current flood protection program. And we're at the we're at a point now where we have a guaranteed maximum price. In order to move forward with the project, we need to move funds from other projects that aren't ready for

construction at this time, knowing that we'll work on the budget, work in the future budgets to re um to refund those projects, but we're bringing council uh update on where we are with the mega bundle projects and also to talk to council about where we are from a funding standpoint. The goal with this briefing is to let council know that we want to bring forward a ordinance to transfer fund so we can move forward

with executing this contract so we can get this project really um kicked off and started. So the next voice you'll hear will be our city engineer Tony Utterback and she'll brief city council on the mega bundle and where we are at this time.

Thank you Mr. Manager. He just gave most of my presentation.

Good afternoon mayor, vice mayor, members of council, Mr. Styles, Mr.

Dehaney. I'm very happy to be here today to present to you on funding the Windsor Woods, Princess Plaza, and the Lakes Mega Project. I have with me uh Kevin Shadelier. I have with me um Mike Mundy.

I have with me Mitch Rubin and LJ Hansen.

So, why are we here today? This is very exciting news. The Windsor Woods, Princess San Plaza, and the Lakes Design Build project or the mega bundle. We are affectionately referring to it as the mega bundle has reached a major milestone. We've been working a year and a half to get to this point and we have received the guaranteed maximum price proposal from the design build contractor in um late October. So since

then we've been negotiating that final price with the contractor and we received the final price uh just recently. Now the final price does exceed the available funding on these projects as Mr. manager stated. Um, but we do have a plan to put forward. Um, but we do need an ordinance in order to transfer funds from other projects to do that. This is consistent to what we've had to do previously on roadway projects

where we needed to move funding from other projects. For example, the Shore Drive phase 3 roadway project, we had to move funding from Centerville. And for in order to award the contract for elbow 2B and 2C, we had to move funding from Indian River 2A, 7A and 7B.

So I'm going to start today by giving you a history of the project by going over the purpose and need and an overview. Then I'm going to talk about the design build project delivery method that was chosen. Uh I'm going to present to you what the guaranteed maximum price proposal is and then Kevin will give um an overview of the program funding plan and I will come back and talk about next steps.

So the purpose of need of the projects most of you recall the tragic storms that occurred back in 2016 where we had three back-to-back rain events. The first one was tropical storm Hermine who um which dumped 6 and a half inches of rain in three days. Two and a half weeks later, tropical storm Julia came and dumped 10 inches of rain in 3 days. And then the culmination of those two storms

ended with Hurricane Matthew the weekend of October 9th, which dropped 14 inches of rain in 20 hours. The back-to back storm events caused catastrophic flooding in Virginia Beach, but particularly in the Windsor Woods, Prince Sand Plaza, and the Lakes area where there were over 800 homes that reported flooding. And this is some of the photos from that tragic event.

So following that, in 2017, city council appropriated funding for us to begin preliminary engineering in the Windsor Woods, Prince Plaza, and the Lakes area.

We hired a consultant to conduct a detailed engineering analysis to determine a specific program of flood protection projects and measures for the project area. Those studies were completed in 2019.

So in order to understand the area the project area you see here we needed to understand the challenges that um affect this area. Uh so we needed to understand how the area drained. So the project area is actually divided into two and Rosemont Road splits the area in half.

The Windsor Woods area is on the west side of Rosemont Road and it drains through Theoa Creek to the north into the Linhaven Inlet and out into the Chesapeake Bay. [snorts] To the east side of Rosemont Road is the Princess Plaza area that drains through London Bridge Creek north into the Linhaven Inlet and out into the Chesapeake Bay.

Now the lakes portion of the area actually drains south through Westnneck Creek down into the North Landing River into Back Bay. These same drainage patterns or natural drainage areas are also pathways for tidal flooding as you can see here. So in the south it's not this typical tidal flooding but the wind tide does push water up into this area.

So these are the challenges and issues that were identified in those 2019 reports. The elevations in the area are low. In fact, the area is practically a bowl and most homes were constructed um on a slab at grade as you can see from this picture here. As I just mentioned, the area is tidily influenced and studies show that there is an increase in frequency and the severity of storms.

The infrastructure in these neighborhoods is relatively old. Uh it was built in the 60s. Uh in some areas the um storm drains are inadequate or even non-existent. And there's a lack of storm water storage in Windsor Woods and in Princess Anne Plaza.

So this is what we call our heat map.

The areas in blue are the highest elevations and the areas in red are the lowest elevations. So you can see the challenges here with the areas in red being in the highest risk for flooding.

So these are the major program elements that were identified in these um preliminary engineering reports and it was determined that there was a combination of complimentary infrastructure improvements that needed to be made to achieve flood protection.

They were divided into two phases. The first phase focused on structural flooding and the second phase will focus on street flooding. Phase one are the projects that we are doing today.

So um the early implementation projects were a group of projects and I'll show you those in just a second. Um they were early projects that we could get design and construct on their own. They could stand on their own and they helped with some localized flooding. The tide gates and barriers that are shown here, these are meant to hold back the tide. As I just showed you the influence of that,

they are in three locations in these areas. And there is two large capacity pump stations that are going to be needed to pump the rainwater out during the storm event. And then Windsor Woods and Prince Plaza have a lack of storm water capacity. So, we're going to build two um we have two projects to address that. And then the storm pipe improvements are not funded. they will be a later phase of the flood protection

program and they will focus on neighborhood storm pipe improvements.

So this is a map showing all the improvements recommended in the for phase one. Uh you can see the different neighborhoods to the left in green you have Windsor Woods in pink you have Princess M Plaza and then in the blue the lakes. So starting in Windsor Woods the projects in green are the ones that are completed. We have the Windsor Woods Tidegate, the South Plaza Trail and Old Forge Red

Lion project and the uh Clubhouse Road and Storm Drain Improvement Project.

Those were those early implementation projects where we constructed large storm water pipe infrastructure.

And then um the remaining pro Oh, and then the Bow Creek stormwater park phase one, I can't forget that one. That's currently under construction now. And that's going to provide the muchneeded storage in the Princess Anne Plaza area.

So the remaining projects are part of the mega bundle and there are seven of them. Starting in Windsor Woods next to the tide gate we have the Windsor Woods pump station and flood barriers. Also in Windsor Woods we have improvements at Theo Creek and Lake Trashmore. And then moving over into Princess Anne Plaza we have North London Bridge Creek Tide Gate pump station and flood barriers. And

then moving down into the lakes area, we have a gate that will be constructed along Holland Road. And at along Linhaven Parkway, we have the South Luna Bridge, Creek, Channels, Tide Gate, and Barrier.

So I'm now I'm going to give you a brief overview of each of those projects and what they do. These are the seven projects starting with Windsor Woods.

This is a graphic of the pump station that is proposed here. It's a large capacity pump station that will be able to pump 800 cubic feet per second. Uh there will be a control building as you can see here. And you can also see the existing tide gate that was completed.

Now it's important to note that this is the permanent pump station. This will replace those temporary pumps that are out there today working with the tide gate. Uh it will also include a flood barrier along South Boulevard. These will be low height earthn BMS and concrete walls to protect from any storm water coming around the outside. And then we will improve the creek by uh installing culverts and channel

improvements between Lake Trashmore and Lake Windsor. So we'll be able to pump them down to provide storage for Windsor Woods. So the idea here is the tide gate is closed during a low tide event. we were able to capture storage behind the gate and pump any storm water out uh over the gate.

So in the Princess Princess End Plaza area, we have a larger storm water pump station. It's able to pump 1,400 cubic feet per second. Uh you see here the rendering showing the control building, the location of the pump station and there is a tide gate that will cross North London Bridge Creek and there will also be flood barriers adjacent to North London Bridge Creek to keep the flooding

from coming around the outside. Same concept pumping down in order to uh provide storage behind the gates.

And then finally in the lakes area we have three projects starting with the picture you see here. This is the South London Bridge Creek channels and tidegate project. We're going to construct a tide gate on London Bridge Creek as you can see. And we're going to separate the lakes and the green run canals to provide additional storage.

And we are going to construct flood barriers along Linhaven Parkway. And this is going to be a system of low height flood walls, BMS and gates. And then finally at Holland Road, we're going to construct a tide gate on the west side of Holland Road.

So in 2018, all of these projects were estimated to cost approximately 290 million. Now that was based on very highlevel conceptual plans and what's called a class 4 estimate. And a class 4 estimate is meant for budgeting purposes only. And it can actually um range from plus 50% of the actual cost of the project.

Completing the projects would have taken nearly 40 years with the funding levels that was provided by the stormwater utility fee. So we had to prioritize the projects based on the benefit that they provided. So the first project that we funded was the Windsor Woods tide gate and as you know that's constructed today. We have already used it and tested it in storm events to keep the

tide out. The second project that was funded was the Boow Creek Stormwater Park, also under construction today and has also provided benefit this past summer during the storm events.

But moving ahead, when we received funding from the bond referendum, that allowed us to move ahead with the rest of the projects in the program.

But we needed to come up with a strategy to streamline and expedite the design and construction of the projects. So we looked at using a single prime contractor and project bundling. And this was actually put into a resolution when the bond referendum passed.

So this is the design build project delivery method that we chose. It's called progressive design build project delivery.

So why progressive design build? So, I've put some um um I have a comparison chart here with some letters or words in bold to compare the progressive design build delivery method against the traditional design bid build method. The progressive deu uh design build method is a collaborative single contract with one design build um team. It is selected based on the best value. It includes

open book pricing where the total cost of the project is negotiated.

There's a high level of collaboration.

There's a lower risk of change orders and there's a consistent and owner participation throughout the entire uh process and it is faster due to the concurrent design and construction activities.

Whereas the traditional design bid build is a linear sequential process. Uh there are separate contracts for the designer and the contractor.

Uh the contractor is selected based on a low the lowest competitively obtained bid. There is minimal collaboration with the city. There's a higher risk of change orders and the owner has less involvement during the construction phase and it's also longer due to the fact that it's sequential in nature.

So, how did we choose the design build team? The progressive design build procurement process is a two-step process. The first and that's according to state code. The first step includes selecting the team and it's based strictly on their qualifications and that involved issuing a request for qualifications or an RFQ uh for the teams to submit their statements of qualifications or SOQS

where they submitted their experience of a project similar in size to ours. and um they submitted their um their their uh I'm sorry their experience um on a s project similar to ours and also uh their project team. So those uh teams were evaluated and we shortlisted the top three teams. The step two involved selection based on best value. We issued a request for proposal for technical and

price proposals. Uh the phase one price proposal only included the cost for design and the indirect costs. We scored the proposals based on their design, their technical approach and their price. And we selected the best overall value.

So this is a flowchart that shows the two-step best value selection. Uh the process to get from A to H actually took a year. We issued the RFQ in January 2023.

The statements of qualifications were submitted in February 2023.

The proposals uh and the we issued the RFP in April of 2023 and then we met with the teams and had interviews and evaluations and we selected the team in September of 2023.

We executed the contract in January of 2024.

So since January of 2024, we've we've been collaborating with the design build team to get to the 60% plans that we are at today and the GMP proposal. So this is where we are today.

So this is the team delivering the mega bundle. Uh starting on the owner side, we have Jacobs who are our flood protection program manager. They have been instrumental uh in helping us with the design build process. Their uh expertise in this field has been invaluable.

Then we have Michael Baker as our owner's adviser. They've been working with us on this project since 2017.

And then RK and K they are our owner's independent cost estimator. Now this is unique to the design build project. Uh an owner's independent cost estimator provides a third-party evaluation to validate the contractor's um proposal to make sure that it's fair and reasonable.

And we do have our independent cost estimator with us today.

On the design build team, we have the contractor Flat Iron Dragos who is teamed with Arcadus, the design engineer. Now, this is not an all-inclusive org chart. There's a whole team behind this group of people that are working on to deliver this project.

So now moving on to what everybody's been waiting for, the guaranteed maximum price proposal.

So the guaranteed maximum price that was presented to us by the design builder is 488.97 million.

So this table shows you each of the seven projects. the total cost that was was presented to us to design and construct it, the funds available for each project and the delta. So we have 85.3 million currently available on these projects and we need an additional 403.6 million to execute the contract.

So to give you a history of the evolution of the price, the original estimate at 50% design was 564.9 million.

After we progressed to get to where we are today at 60%, the first GMP submitt was 58.5 million which was a reduction of 56.4 million. Now that's what we'd expect in a progressive design build project. We work from 15% design. We value engineer certain items in the contract. We have design refinements and we get the cost down. So since then we've had further negotiations and we've saved another 19.6 million to get to

where we are today at the 488.97 million.

So I know you're asking yourselves, how do we know this number is correct? So, as I mentioned, our independent cost estimator provided independent estimates at each of the major project milestones and compared them with the estimate that the design builder provided each one of those submitts.

They also worked together, the estimator and the design builder, to resolve any significant differences.

So, this independent review was essential. It provided us a way to ensure that risks were minimized while ensuring the project costs were carefully controlled from the start to the finish. And for the final GMP review, our independent cost estimators estimate for the direct construction cost was within 3% of the design builder estimate.

Now moving on to the proposed funding plan.

So we will need to transfer funds from other projects in the flood protection program to fund the gap. Um the projects chosen for transfer were based on available funds on these projects and also the expected delivery dates.

So starting with the Sandbridge new bridge intersection improvement project and the marsh restoration project. Both of those projects are currently delayed due to environmental permitting. So that funding uh right now is available.

The central resort projects, we are currently developing the RFQ to advertise that project for design build for release in early January.

Uh so we don't need the construction funding at this time for Pungo Ferry. We are in the environmental um process. We are preparing an EA uh and we have we already have those activities funded.

That EA is expected to be completed uh by the summer of next year for Church Point, Thood, BMP, and conveyance improvements. Right now, we're working on a phase 1B. It will begin design in January. It's not expected to go to construction until 2029.

For Westnet Creek Bridge, we are wrapping up the preliminary engineering report and coordinating with the Army Corps of Engineers on the preferred alternative as this project is included in their coastal storm risk management study for the Lake Bradford Chub Lake pump station and outfall project. The design build team is under contract, so that funding has already been encumbered and

the GMP for that project is not expected until the third quarter of 2027. So the remaining funding here is available and the last project first colonial road ocean boulevard drainage improvements is in construction now. So what you see here is available on that project.

So the upcoming FY27 CIP will restore the funding to these projects to the greatest extent possible but be strictly based on the schedule of those projects.

We are also proposing appropriating new funding from stormwater revenue bonds and general fund fund balance. The funds shown there for those two sources will be applied to the uh one project in the mega bundle that is not supported by the bond referendum. That's the uh South London Bridge Tidegate project. and then also authorized unappropriated charter bonds and public facility revenue bonds

that will be repaid by the flood protection program fund. So that gets us to the 403.6 million needed to award the contract.

Other items that are not included in the GMP are shown here and these are all um costs that we need to cover. uh they include the owner's adviser and construction site representative when we start construction on these projects. Uh a contingency for us. We have some costs uh for some reinterment costs for a cemetery located at the North London Bridge Creek pump station. Uh we are anticipating some private utility

adjustments. We have some water and sewer relocation at the South London Bridge Creek Tide Gate. We need to do some channel dredging at Thelia Creek and some stormwater inlet improvements in the Chimney Hill neighborhood. So those total 46.73 and those will be programmed as needed in the upcoming six-year CIP.

So this table uh you may may look familiar to you. This was presented to you in September by Leicia Pika with Jacobs. Um this is when she presented that the total program cost was 1.55 billion. So the uh Windsor Woods Prince Plaza uh and the lakes mega bundle is included in the master project here for Windsorwoods Prince Plaza and Lakes. But also included in that number is the early implementation projects the Bo

Creek Stormwater Park and the Windsorwoods Tidegate. So in September she presented a total cost for everything in the master project 803 million. Today with the guaranteed maximum price proposal we are now at 761 million for that master project which brings us to 1.5 billion.

Now I'm going to turn it over to Kevin who's going to talk about the funding plan.

[clears throat] Hey Kevin, how you doing?

Good. Thank you, mayor, vice mayor, members of council. Uh, so Tony covered a great deal um in that presentation talking about the mega bundle and there are some certainly some big numbers and a lot of history related to this project. So, city council might recall last year about this time, um, we did a presentation by committee where a section of it I came up and I talked about the long-term funding plan and

strategy associated with the flood protection program and what tools city council put into place. Um, so I'm going to continue that um on the back of Tony's presentation, talk about some of the components that are in the funding plan being proposed and will be included in the upcoming ordinance for city council's consideration. starting with I'm going to back up briefly um and before I get into uh the um bond

referendum and and the charter bonds associated with that in the funding plan that Tony covered um you might see down towards the bottom the general fund fund balance of about $14 million.

Prior to the adoption or the approval of the bond referendum years ago, city council established a real estate dedication, the equivalent of 2.5 cents of the real estate tax rate that is utilized to support general go general fund operations um in the sto for storm water purposes, mosquito control, um some other engineering purposes. And so what this number here represents is a restricted portion of the general fund

fund balance that has lapsed over the several years and has accumulated. And so it's a rolling number of about $14 million that is specifically earmarked for storm water purposes. So what this will be doing is appropriating that from the restricted portion of the general fund fund balance. So we will whenever if approved by city council, it will not be reducing the fund balance as a

percentage of um next year's estimated revenues. Instead, it's from the restricted portion. So I just wanted to to back up and um follow follow up on that. As everybody's familiar and aware, flood protection and the storm water um has been the number one a priority for city council for uh several years since Hurricane Matthew really brought it to light and city council's been putting um

tools in place ever since that point in time to help us get to this point in time. So, little bit of additional background um in terms of the the funding mechanisms put into place. After the adoption or the approval of the bond referendum, city council authorized and appropriated $567.5 million of general obligation bonds or charter bonds that was to be supported long-term with the real estate tax

dedication of equivalent of $4.1.

And so that is in fact was put into place and remains in place to t today.

Uh one of the changes that happened at that point in time is in lie of raising the real estate tax rate um of that equivalent amount to dedicate it for that purpose. Instead, city council at that time opted to absorb that through year-over-year assessment growth and dedicate that assessment growth for this purpose.

So at that point in time um there's also uh it was a transition period. So storm water up to that point in time had been backed by the equivalent residential unit or the ERU and the revenue specifically generated from that. So there's a lot of projects that were already underway and at that point in time they were bond they were funded through the stormwater eru and you might recall that Tony had mentioned one of

the specific projects within the mega bundle u one of the seven the the south lakes project I believe um was one of those original projects funded by the eru and so it will continue to be funded by the eru um throughout the construction period and and remain funded as such.

Uh so everything else has been added to the FPP or the flood protection program since that point in time has been supported through the um funding P plan put in place to support the bond referendum. So the last bullet point on here, and this might be the most important bullet point on this slide, is that in order to continue the funding plan as put into place, it's critical that all the bonds are issued. All 567.5

million are issued by 2031.

If those bonds are not issued, then we don't have the legal authority to retain those those bonds. we have to have to remove those from the budget and that will put a big hole in the flood protection program and the funding plan put in place for it.

Uh there was an additional resolution that was approved by city council post um approval of the bond referendum and so I typically don't read however I can't summarize it any better than the than the verbiage as what was in the resolution. Uh so it reads in furtherance of the long-term flood mitigation needs of the city, the general obligation bonding capacity created by the retirement of the debt

authorized by the November 2021 referendum shall be reserved exclusively for the issuance of bonds to finance phase two of the city's flood mitigation program and subsequent sea level rise projects.

So the real estate dedication that we were previously talking about the 2.5 cent general fund dedication as well as this uh mechanism here of retaining the retired bonds uh and charter bond capacity generated through the referendum is really the long-term financing plan that we're talking about.

So to try to demonstrate what that um previous verbiage I read talking about the resolution and retaining the charter bond capacity looks like here's a slide that I can perhaps quickly work through to try to familiarize everybody with what this will look like. So each year the city we do this as a part of the budget process with our city's charter bond or general obligation bonds. So,

per the charter, the city's allowed to um whatever the calendar year retirement of debt is for that year, the city's allowed to authorize that plus $10 million in a given year. So, the whole concept behind doing that same um principle and initiative and following the same practice with the flood protection program, this is a debt table that would show how this calculation would work. So in 2024,

we had an issuance of the for the flood protection program bond referendum of $118 million.

Each year that that debt service payment is made, there's a retirement of about $5.9 million of of the original principal. And so that's lockboxed, if you will, to be retained specifically to be reappropriated for the flood flood protection program in a future point in time. So the visual, the $118 million each year, the $5.9 million throughout the 20-year debt service payment associated with that, it accumulates um

over a period of time to be repurposed.

And you can actually see that at the very bottom of the table here. the cumulative unallocated bond authority.

You can see the 11.8 million there at the end of FY2526.

That is a component of this um proposed funding mechanism that Tony had on the previous slide to be appropriated to help put towards the awarding the cont having the funds in place to award the contract for the mega bundle. [snorts] So that's one issuance an example of that. Um but that's that was the first issuance. There's several more issuances to come which will result in additional

principal retirement occurring each year and therefore creating additional capacity to be appropriate at a future point in time.

So trying to take a snapshot and look at what that might be like um in a [clears throat] in a proposed budget or in future budgets. Um this is just an capacity example. So, um, working left to right, obviously the $567 million that was the appropriations to date, which is the ATDs. And then FY26, you can see from the second row down the FY24 charter bond issuance and sale authorized or excuse me, appropriating

that 11.8 million for additional purpose and utilization within the flood protection program. And then the $5.9 million that occurs each year. um an a future assumed sale is anticipated to occur in FY26. Again, um again, this is based on information from last year in the adopted budget. This will be decision that's really made based on a look at an assessment by finance and the financial Davenport the financial

consultants to determine the right timing of these issuances. But for this purpose here, it's a hypothetical looking at what additional capacity would be generated from a sale amount in FY26 of that level and then FY28 and so forth and so on. Um, one thing that will be um included in the proposal for city council's consideration is the appropriation of nearly $64 million in public facility revenue bonds. So in

authorizing or approving this, it'll allow the appropriations to be in place to award the contract and begin the constructions to take place. What we can look at over time is the capacity of the flood protection um special revenue fund to potentially absorb uh the debt service associated with the issuance of $64 million in flood pro or public facility revenue bonds. or that could be

a mechanism to modify that or change that means of financing in future years based on availability of cash within the flood protection or special revenue fund.

So I know that I covered a lot as well and um hopefully I was able to give some uh clarity or context as to what some of the the words were of the in the means of financing of what Tony was talking about. But um I'll be up here to be able to take questions and I think Tony's gonna come back up to talk about the next steps in the closing slide here.

Okay. So um in accordance with state code, a public hearing is required in order for us to transfer the funds as we u mentioned earlier. So, that public uh hearing will be held on December 2nd. Um it was advertised in the Virginia pilot on November 21st and November 24th. Um an ordinance for city council's consideration will be on your agenda for the December 9th meeting. If you so

choose to adopt that ordinance, uh we would like to execute the contract with the design builder and issue notice to proceed in January of 2026.

So that will allow us to complete the design of the projects and begin construction in the third quarter of 2026.

Now because there are seven projects, their schedules are staggered. And I'll show you um a diagram in just a moment, but the first project that will complete construction or complete design and start construction will be the Windsor Woods pump station. And then all construction for all seven projects will substantially be complete in the third quarter of 2031.

So this is the overall schedule and you can see how the projects start and complete at different times. So starting with the Windsor Woods pump station and then going through all seven projects in the program with the completion date substantially complete in 2031.

So with that we will take any questions.

Worth and Rosemary.

Thank you mayor.

This questions for you Mr.

[clears throat] Chalet and Tony, but can you go back to page 26?

[clears throat] So on this the top line items there, I understand postponing those and then pushing those out at at some point you have to spend the and you so you save the money there and you apply it to this project. So, at what point in the future, because you still have to issue debt, you have to pay for those for those $272 million.

How far out are you pushing those or are you delaying that? I know you're not having to spend it now, but does it affect the schedule?

So, the the projects, we're going to appropriate funding to the projects as they're needed. So, that's why I was trying to go through and kind of map where the projects are today and why why the funding that is shown for each of these is available today. [snorts] We're not taking the funding off a project that's using it right now, but at some point you're going to need to spend it in the next 5 years. So,

yes, a as the schedules need the funding. So, if you're asking the funding question on how it's coming back on, it's going to be appropriated in the upcoming six-year CIP and programmed through the six years based on the schedule for each one of these projects.

Right now, all that funding is just sitting on the projects.

So, that segus to the second last question. So the ordinance that we were the public hearing and the ordinance we would have in December would be what? To expand the CIP or to change the CIP the current schedule.

So Council Member Rimik, it would be to transfer um the appropriations reflected on this off to the mega bundle projects.

Um it would be to appropriate the funds at the bottom of this summary table here. So it's a combination. It's a transfer. It's an appropriation of new funds. Um it's actually the appropriation of the new funds which triggered the public purpose or the 1% um requirement to have a public hearing ad associated with with this action item. Um so and then in terms of the programming the future years, you're

exactly right. The program or the funds will be tied up and secured once we transfer off of this. It'll be tied up and secured to the execution of this contract which bonds in a future point in time will be issued against and then retiring that annual debt will create additional capacity to be reappropriated. And the thinking and the idea is reappropriate to the projects based on the timeline of when they're

needed for that. So if a project needs design construction or design on that then it can be appropriate as such. The other kind of math um that's not a visual up here is it's not all of the funds being taken transferred off of these projects in their entirety.

There's still, I believe, close to $80 million that will remain on these projects for public works staff to continue making progress on these. So it's this transfer is not bringing the whole um flood protection program initiative to to a gridlock and tying it up in this one initiative.

If I could just say I think it's a brilliant way to address you know what was 567 and now 1.53 or 52 billion is just brilliant and I thank you for your effort everyone Rosemary and Barbara Mr. Duhaney, I have to compliment you on having the most brilliant staff.

Uh Tony, you and Kevin and your team [snorts] have put together an amazing very very complicated presentation. It's a lot of stuff here and I just want to thank you. And as we all know, we our $567 million with inflation is like almost three times of what the the voters approved because prices just kept going up. and through getting grants and doing something like this, if my math is right, which that may not be my

strongest point, but it looks like it saves us $76 million. Is that about right?

She's talking to Oh, yes, you're correct. You're actually correct. Yes.

Thank you.

I thought you that was what I wanted to hear. But and one of the best things about it and I know you put a whole page on it is GMP guaranteed maximum price that is so fantastic because so much you know we still don't know what will happen with inflation if we know there's always some inflation but that will will absolutely control the prices and um I I know that y'all do a really good job um

delaying a few things, but the delay is not going to really be I don't think that noticeable from what I can tell. Uh just [snorts] like the uh the funding was taken away from the Croan sand project which is now underway and the people in Croan are so happy. It's fantastic. I don't know if you'all have seen it on television. It's really amazing. They had to wait for the sea turtles to hatch and leave and now

that's underway. That was a promise that was made. Okay, we're going to take this money away for now, but we're going to we're going to put it back. And I think that's kind of what you're saying.

That's an example of what you're saying is here. But I and I have to also really give a shout out to Councilman Beluchcci that has I think this is 100% in his district and he has worked really really hard to protect the families and the homes that were under such duress and we really care and we love our citizens and this huge huge financial obligation that we're going take on

shows that how we we value everyone with their homes and protecting them for the future so that we continue to have a thriving city. So, thank you so much.

That was well said, Barbara.

Uh first of all, Tony, I want to say you're a great public speaker. I didn't miss a single word that you said. So many folks I have to really struggle.

You're good. Uh you're also good with the financing. Um but I I am concerned at these transfers because I look at where these transfers come from and it's I know that you all are comfortable that you have got the financing in place to make them happen but sometimes our folks don't always trust us to that level. Uh so I do need some future sit down with uh the financing staff to

be able to assure people that we are just transferring and we're not saying that these projects are not going to happen and so forth. But it also makes me think that um if we are kind of behind this much in the projects that we had already put out for referendum, we better not come up with some that we haven't put in this list yet. That means we've got to be very careful with how we

do things so that we are not creating other projects that are going to flood.

We've got to be mighty careful and and I'm not sure that we've reached that level, but a lot of my questions were along the line that Mr. Remick was asking as far as the transfers and being assured that we're going to be able to do this because we're going to have these projects, the Windsor Woods and so forth done by 2031, but these other projects are much beyond that. And you know, when [snorts]

we're talking to people who want to know, well, why did you put those in a referendum in as early as you did if we're not going to be able to build those for a long long time? So, I do have concerns. It's it's awfully hard to explain all of this to our public. Uh but I I think we've certainly got to do a better job of not creating more flooding issues, and I'll address that

in a little bit, too.

Council member Henley, I I I do want to emphasize one thing and I I think Kevin touched on this, but I I want to say it again because I think this is a really important part of of what we're talking about. This is not the totality of the funding from these projects. These projects still continue to move forward.

If if if I use Tony's example for the Lake Bradford Chub Lake pump station, they're still designing that that team is doing everything that they're doing, but they're not going to need the 33 33.7 million, 33.8 million because they're not ready to go to construction until fiscal year 27, which that's what we're going to program that money in so that in fiscal year 27, they're ready to

go. That's that's our plan. That's what we're trying to to do in the CIP process. Similarly for the the other projects, the only ones that are truly delayed are the ones that were having problems with the environmental issues.

And unfortunately, both of those projects are in your district, ma'am, and I appreciate the the frustration, but the other projects we're still trying to move forward to the degree that we can. So, we're not waiting until 2031 to pick up these projects and keep moving. They're still moving. And and and some of these projects, our goal is still to execute them as quickly as possible. I just I just want to make

sure that everybody understands that we're just taking the amount of money that we're not using on those projects today and moving that so that the project that we're ready to go to construction that we have the funding to make that one go to construction. I hope that's helpful.

As long as you're right.

As long as Kevin's right, ma'am.

That's twice you dodged.

Yeah. So, um, my my hats are off to y'all. Uh, but also I wanted to say I I you know, I don't understand the numbers the way my buddy here in my right does.

Um, but y'all explained it cuz for the public I think it's important and I think we need to start doing a better job of this and I'm going to talk about this in a little while as well is is that the briefs that we got the the the uh the brief and paperwork and our Friday package we got and then this presentation it it allows me to be comfortable with some very big numbers. Um, and you're

balancing it and you just covered it again LJ and I think that's the best part about this. um is how we've you're you're taking where you can and and I don't want to say it's numbers on the page, but you know, it's a ledger and you're trying to move it across to make it work. And of course, anything could happen. We have another pandemic or something, right? I mean, who knows? But

but as far as the guaranteed, as the vice mayor said, the guaranteed price, there's some really solid parts here that I think will make this happen. And the great part is is we're getting ready to go to construction. So, we're going to start to see things, you know, we're going to get the pump station at Trashmore finished so that we don't have that issue anymore, you know. I mean,

it's just some wonderful things that were like five years away, you know. So, that's that's fantastic. And my hats off to you. And u I I do just want to reiterate though that this is not the first we've seen it. We've gotten private briefs on it to make sure we understand it and ask any, you know, in the weeds questions. We've gotten the paperwork on Friday and now we've gotten this brief and I I feel really

comfortable with what y'all are uh bringing forward. So, thank you.

Hey, Josh. Thank you, Mayor. And thank you everybody for your presentation. Um, and LJ, I think um that last reiteration that you just did, the way the way I've always thought about this, and correct me if I'm wrong, is this $567.5 million is essentially like a credit line of credit, right? So, we'll we'll use it. will pay for projects and then once the debt is paid off the the credit

line is remains open for us to use for future projects. So the money that has been appropriated in the past um like you you were saying is is essentially latent either capacity or unused capital that is just sitting there that those projects are actually happening and being designed and under some phases even of construction perhaps or property acquisition. [clears throat] But that money, the the rest of the

money that was appropriated is just sitting there doing nothing while we can go get the rest of this done quicker and cheaper.

Yes, sir.

Yeah. And I also like to add, council member Schuman, you're correct, but also the the proceeds that that 4.1 pennies generates more than the 567 because it grows up with the assessment each time, right? And the big thing that we're trying to dance and protect is our credit rating, right? you know, so we could be irresponsible and leave the money on these projects and then just come to council and say we want to take

additional bond capacity and load up that way. But then when we got to explain that to the rating agencies, they're going to say, "Well, this project isn't out there and you don't do you don't need that till 2030 something.

So why are you doing that? Why don't you take the resources that you're not going to use for another six years and move it forward?" Right? That's the best way to preserve our rating a our overall rating, keep our AAA, which allows us to get that cheaper, [snorts] you know, and kind of keeps the city in a solid financial footing as well. Right. So, those are some of the things that we're

doing in the background while we um when we make these decisions and bring these recommendations to you. As as Kevin mentioned, it's not just us, it's the finance department, but also Davenport, our financial adviser, and they go to market several times a year for several different clients. So, they're always advising us on what's the best way to navigate our our CIP and also our bond

and um debt limits. But LJ, I don't know if you want to add anything else to that.

The only thing I wanted to say is that Councilman, I I I agree with you. This is this is our belief of the most responsible way to make use of this money. We we want to put it to use in construction rather than letting it sit there and depreciate due to inflation.

If if this money just sits on a ledger line item and we're not ready to go to construction on that project, it makes a lot more sense to bundle it into a project that we're ready to go to construction and put it to use. I think that's what the taxpayers are expecting.

Thank you.

Okay, Amelia. And then Stacy, I want to thank you for this project. It really sounds doable. I like the way the way I'm seeing it is as though it's staggered. So even though you have all construction completed by 2031, you've already finished Windsor and you're going on to the next and so forth.

Just touch base on that if I'm on the right track.

Yes, ma'am. So um as I mentioned, the Windsor Woods pump station is going to start, but we're also going to have other projects starting that are staggered. So you're going to have one project starting construction and maybe six months later there's another one starting. So they're all staggered, but the final completion date is 2031. And then also to note um as like for the pump station as it's completed or

substantially completed where we can actually accept it as a city, we can take it over and start using it. So even though the rest of the program is still under construction, as the projects are completed, we can uh accept them into our maintenance program and actually use them. Okay. Thank you for working towards reducing what that original estimate was.

Finding other pockets to reduce it and important what our city manager mentioned about our triple a rate.

Keep that in the pot as a plus for other uh constructions and so forth that will come in the future. Thank you so much Stacy.

Um very impressive. Uh I know that's a lot of hard work and great results.

Just a a question in the weeds, I guess, that the there was $80 million available in the um there's a mega bundle in the funding of the mega bundle. So, um whatever the source of that is, this this program will 85 million. So this the transfer of these funds will fully fund this mega bundle the 588 or whatever. So the funds that were being deferred into these seven projects those will go elsewhere now or

will we continue to fund these?

[clears throat] So council member maybe maybe I could try. So, um, all these projects except for the one I had made note of the, um, the the South Lakes project were the appropriations in place were the a portion of the $567 million bond referendum. So, that is that $85 million that's already on the projects. So, it's a component of them are is already the bond referendum, charter bonds are already allocated to

that. the bulk of the remainder amount to be transferred. Well, the transfer amounts to these is um also the $270 something million I believe uh is um from the bond referendum as well. That's part of the $567 million.

The other components, the new appropriations, those are new means that weren't a part of that charter bond, the bond referendum charter bond amount.

Does that make sense? Um, if I may though, uh, what talking about that, um, and in light of the remainder of city council's conversation that you were just having, I know everybody's, um, excited about getting the contract there and in the future. From a financial standpoint, this is in the weeds. Um, I'm excited [clears throat] about it as well because if you recall, one of the

things that I had said, um, is the last bullet point on this.

If all of the $567 million is not issued by 2031, then we don't get to retain that for the phase 2 or to replenish and put back towards these projects and reappropriate in the future. You that's just charter bond capacity that's lost.

So we would it put a big hole on the overall financial plan. So the fact that um such a significant contract is on the verge of of being awarded and construction beginning, that's a sizable amount that I think finance is going to be happy to see to take to the market and issue that which will then result in a u the retirement of that debt that we can then funnel back into for future year appropriation.

Huge.

Okay Patrick and Mr. Mayor, members of council, we typically um each year towards um December, we really give city council a financial overlook or outlook of the city. Um next week, Davenport, who's the city's financial advisor, is going to come and give city council the typical briefing we give you so you can kind of see where we are on as it relates to our debt metrics and our debt capacity and

things like that, you know. So, it would have been good because of the time we weren't able to have Davenport come and give you that presentation before this because that [clears throat] would have kind of help you see where all of this fits in the big big picture. But as we show you all each year, we always try to give you a sense of where we are with the flood protection program and what's

it looking like, what it's generating over a time horizon to kind of calm the the fears and the concerns about how we're going to get there and how we're going to navigate these um inflationary cost increases. It's it's a big it's a big hurdle. It's a big um big challenge, but it's it's workable and it's doable if we be patient and we maintain the financial um rigors that the city

council and the public has expected from us.

Okay. Anybody else? You know, let me just say, you know, with this situation sometimes, yes, I do repeat myself, but it's worth repeating. This again is another one of our confrontations with reality. This is something that we had to deal with.

Uh, you know, Hurricane Matthew back in 16 was a game changer in many, many ways. You know, we did a total pivot to the point where this topic we're talking about is our highest priority closely followed by public safety, schools, and attainable housing. Um, and you know, I will say again at the that time I was doing a lot of home care, PT.

I was in a lot of neighborhoods and I remember the devastation and once again of seeing people's entire lives on the front lawn, their memories on the front lawn. You know, the amount of damage that was done is real. And I remember at the time we made a commitment that we were going to be doing something extremely proactive.

Um, you know, I remember we had a neighborhood in my uh district when I first got elected was uh you know um you know flooded you know uh right by Glen Haven and uh Indian Ripper Road you know bridal creek road and uh you know we did a quick uh you know pump station I think it was $6.5 million and it took care of the problem and we're going to take care of

the problem and I think we made commitment to take care of the problem.

But the one thing I will also repeat, [clears throat] we absorbed into our budget the 4.1%.

Okay? And I think that's very important uh that we remember going forward.

And uh but once again, the commitments are going to be there. And uh you know, once again, I and once again, I'll repeat myself.

We're going to be paying [clears throat] for flood water in perpetuity.

And but once again, you know the old Marine Corps uh motto uh innovate adapt overcome and I think this is what you did in today's presentation kudos to all of you

moving on $500 million [clears throat] Mr. the mayor, members of the council, at this time I'll be joined by um Miss Alco for giving the city council the pending planning items briefing. It'll be for the items that's coming up at your forthcoming city council meetings.

Some of the ideas will bring in some new revenues to pay for some of the stuff we just Good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor, members of council. As the city manager just said, I'm going to briefly briefly run through the planning items for consideration at your December 9th hearing. So, there are a total of 10 planning items on that agenda, two of which are bundled into one project. And

all of these items were heard at the November planning commission hearing.

So, looking first at item one, this is a subdivision variance request for 2453 Bowfort Avenue in District 9.

The applicant seeks to subdivide the existing parcel to create two single family residential lots. The proposed lots meet all dimensional requirements of the R7.5 residential district except for conceptual lot A1 which is outlined in blue on the slide which has a street line frontage of 50 ft instead of the required 60 ft. Since the frontage of a lot is determined by the narrowest point

from which legal access is available, um the conceptual or the street line frontage for conceptual lot A1 is measured along the Chub Lake Avenue paper street which is that 50 foot that is um in the red text there. I will note however that access to both lots is proposed from Bradford Port Point Lane which is to the left on the slide.

Since this property is located within the Shore Drive corridor overlay, the item was presented to the Bayfront Advisory Committee Commission who voted to support the request as there is no plans to improve or extend Chublake Avenue in this area and as the existing parcel is also deficient in terms of street line frontage and the adjacency to a paper street is an unusual hardship. Staff does find that the

grounds for a hardship needed to grant a variance to be met. In this case, we have recommended a condition to require a 1-oot no ingress egress easement along Chub Lake Avenue in this area to prevent any future access from Chub Lake Avenue.

We have not received any opposition to this request and the planning commission did recommend approval on their consent agenda.

Item two is a request for a change in nonconformity for an existing single family dwelling at 2618 West Chub Lake Avenue. The property is zoned R7.5, lies within district 9, and also within the Shore Drive corridor.

The proposed improvements to the house include enclosing the existing front porch to create a shed, removing the existing utility shed, which is currently located within the right ofway, relocating and raising the HVAC and pool equipment, relocating the front door, modifying the roof pitch, and constructing a two-story building addition, as well as redeveloping the pool area. The home was built in 1968

and is non-conforming to the city's current setback requirements as well as the parking requirements for a single family dwelling.

The existing dwelling encroaches more than 30 ft into the front yard setback and encroaches just slightly into both sideyard setbacks.

In addition to the dimensional variances requested, the applicant is also requesting permission to have zero on-site parking spaces rather than the required two. This request is consistent with how the property has historically operated since the home was constructed in 1968.

Um, as you can see on the image on the slide here, the owners currently park within an unimproved portion of the right of way. The proposed improvements to the home do not alter or impact the existing parking areas and the issue with providing on-site parking. It is significantly limited due to the small lot size, the existing footprint of the home, and then the site topography.

The total increase to the front yard non-conformity is roughly 35 square ft.

All other improvements either reduce the degree of nonconformity or comply with the dimensional requirements for the R7.5 district. Staff has not received any opposition to this request and the planning commission recommended approval by a vote of 9 to1.

Item three is a request for a modification of conditions related to a short-term rental at 409 24th and a half street in District 6.

In 2021, city council approved a conditional use permit for a short-term rental for this property, which included three conditions related to the removal of an existing gravel area, installation of a stacked driveway, and then installation of a hedge row along 24th and a half street.

In 2022, the site was redeveloped with a new single family dwelling. The approved site plan included a BMP and an 18 by 18 foot driveway in the location of the hedge required with that 2021 approval.

The redevelopment of the site also resulted in the removal of the gravel area. It was determined by our zoning staff that a modification of conditions to remove those three conditions would be required in order for the site to obtain their short-term rental zoning permit. as compliance with all conditions of ACUP are required before that permit can be issued.

Three prior zoning complaints were received for the site relating to parking issues, specifically parking within the street. The first complaint was unsubstantiated by staff. The second was referred to the Virginia Beach Police Department, and then the third did result in a notice of violation.

However, that was resolved when the vehicles were moved.

I do want to point out that there are no physical changes proposed to the site with this request. This property has been rented as a 30-day plus rental since September of this year. Um, four parking spaces are required since the short-term rental has four bedrooms.

Three of those spaces are provided on site and then the um applicant does lease one space at the 25th Street parking garage which is just east of the site. We have not received any opposition to this request and the planning commission did recommend approval on their consent agenda.

Item four is a request to conditionally reszone a 14 1/2 acre parcel from AG1 and AG2 to conditional R10 for a parcel along Fiser Arch in district 2.

The applicant intends to develop a 14 lot single family subdivision resulting in a density of just under one unit per acre. The undeveloped property lies within the transition area and the 65 to 70 decel noise zone sub area 2. Just over 54% of the site is propo is proposed as open space to include a network of trails throughout the site which surround the proposed BMP and connect to the existing shared use path

along Fiser Arch as well as trails within the adjacent Mundon Farms and Heritage Park neighborhoods.

The 14 new homes will have a minimum living area of 2200 square feet for a two-story dwelling and 2,000 square feet for the one-story dwellings. Each home will include a twocar garage and architectural elements as recommended in the transition area design guidelines such as front porches, side loading garages, and gabled roofs.

Since this site is located within the 65 to 70 decel noise zone sub area 2, the project was presented to the city navy joint review process group or JRP and that was determined to be in conformance with article 18 of the zoning ordinance.

This applicant also appeared before the transition area interfacility traffic area citizens advisory committee who found the proposal consistent with the transition area design guidelines and voted to support the request. We have not received any opposition and the planning commission again voted to recommend approval on their consent agenda.

Item five is a conditional resoning request for property located along Northland Haven Road in District 3.

The property is currently splitzoned with the front portion zoned B2 and the rear portion zoned O2.

The applicant is requesting to reszone that rear portion which is outlined in yellow on the slide here.

[snorts] in order to permit additional uses such as an eating and drinking establishment within an existing vacant tenant space.

The site does lie within the Linhaven SGAA and is adjacent to phase three of the VB trail.

The site is also located within the greater than 75 decel noise contour.

There are no changes proposed to the site with this request. Again, the applicant is just we um seeking to fill a vacant tenant space and that tenant space is in the building in the western corner of the property.

In response to opposition that was received, the applicant did host a community meeting in October. Um only one person did attend that meeting. That individual did note concerns related to noise generated from servicing the dumpster on site. Staff has also received three letters of opposition related to this request with concerns regarding the potential hours of operation for a future tenant, the

potential sale of alcohol on site, as well as noise and lighting impacts on the adjacent residential properties.

While we did have one speaker sign up at the planning commission hearing, they were not online at the time um that this application was heard.

in response work.

So one of the conditions that alcohol will not be served.

Did I see that?

Correct. It's a profer. So the applicant in response to those concerns, they um add additional profers, they relocated the dumpster and will provide screening.

They have limited the hours of operation. Now again, all of this is related just to that western half of the property, but hours of operation will be limited from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.

prohibiting the sale of alcohol on site.

And then there are profers that speak to lighting to ensure that the lighting um stays on site and doesn't spill over onto adjacent properties.

Um the planning commission did note that this was um kind of the type of uses that you wanted to see along the Virginia Beach Trail. They were supportive of the request and recommended approval by a unanimous vote.

Item six is a request for a conditional use permit for a beauty salon at 4510 Holland Office Park, Sweet 507. This is in district 3.

[clears throat] The applicant is requesting to continue to operate a beauty salon at the site and bring their business into compliance as they were unaware of the need for the cup. There will be a maximum of three independently contracted employees and proposed hours of operation are Tuesday through Friday, 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m.

by appointment only.

Staff has not received any opposition to this request. We have received 21 items of support to include one letter of support from the property manager and then a petition of support with 20 signatures. Ultimately, the planning commission did recommend approval on their consent agenda.

Items seven and eight are two conditional use permit requests. One for an indoor recreational facility and another for an outdoor recreational facility associated with Regent University in District 7. The proposed complex is located at the intersection of Centerville Turnpike and Regent University Drive.

The complex includes an indoor fitness and athletic facility, a main field surrounded by a track, and that field will be able to accommodate various sports such as soccer, football, lacrosse, and field hockey. There will be a baseball field, softball field, tennis, basketball, and pickle ball courts. And this is all to support regents hope to join um division 3 NCAA athletics.

A total of 187 parking spaces are proposed to support this youth use with additional parking lots being available throughout the campus um if it is if it is needed. Staff has recommended that a parking study be submitted and approved by the zoning administrator as part of the site plan approval process just to ensure that the parking provided can meet the demand. There are several

deviations requested with this project.

Um the site is zoned R5D which limits height to 35 ft. So the complete list of deviations is listed on the slide there.

The two largest deviations, one for the fitness and athletic center at 73 ft and then another for the stadium lights at 90 ft.

Staff has not received any opposition to this request and the planning commission voted to recommended approval with the added condition requiring sidewalk connectivity to the existing side path along Centerville Turnpike. Connectivity from the proposed facilities to the student housing located at Jake Seier Circle and then connectivity along Regent University Drive.

Agenda item nine is a conditional use permit request for a short-term rental at 303 Atlantic Avenue suite or unit 1503. This is within district 5.

So the applicant is seeking to operate a three-bedroom unit within the Dolphin Run condominium complex. There are two assigned parking spaces associated with this unit. As I'm sure you are all aware, only one space is required for the Dolphin Run condominiums.

The site has no prior zoning complaints or documented stays and there are no current advertisements associated with the unit. We did have one speaker in opposition at the planning commission hearing who cited concerns with impacts to the residents of the condos and expressed a desire for long-term versus short-term rentals. Ultimately, the planning commission did vote to recommend approval of this request.

And for this final item, I'm going to turn it over to our zoning administrator, Hannah Savo.

Welcome.

Hello. Good afternoon, council. [snorts] This um item 10 is an ordinance amendment uh by the city of Virginia Beach to amend section 105 of the zoning ordinance pertaining to nonconformities.

Uh staff and planning commission both recommend approval of this amendment.

Section 105 um relates to both non-conforming structures and non-conforming uses. A legally non-conforming structure, which is the uh diagram on the left, is a structure that does not meet the regulations currently, but it did meet the regulations at the time it was built. Uh so, for example, a single family dwelling that was built prior to the adoption of the zoning ordinance, but it

doesn't currently meet those front yard setbacks. So, that would be considered a legally non-conforming structure. Uh the diagram to the right would be a non-conforming use. So that would be a use that is permitted uh that was permitted at the time that use was established. Uh but it is not would not be permitted under the current regulations. Uh so again for this example we have a single family dwelling

that was established um the time was established. It was fine prior to the zoning ordinance but now that area is zoned I1. So it would not currently be allowed to have a single family dwelling but it was established part of the ordinance. So it's considered a non-conforming use. And um so in that case that is a non-conforming use but the structure is conforming because it meets the setbacks of that ordinance

that it's in.

So there are of course cases where both the structure and the use can be non-conforming. We do have those. Uh so just be aware but it is a separate structural non-conformities versus a [clears throat] non-conforming use.

Prior to May of 2025 variance requests so a variance would be a request for a relief from a dimensional regulation like setbacks or height. So, prior to May of 2025, uh, variance requests for structural nonconformities were heard by the board of zoning appeals. Uh, the state code does give the power to review variances relating to structural non-conformities to the BCA. Uh, but there was an interpretation by the

previous zoning administrator um of that section of our ordinance in May that did require those variances that related to any nonconformity, including structural non-conformities, to be heard by planning commission and then council. Um and so those started to go to planning commission and then council here. So this amendment would add clarifying language to that section 105 that would

allow variance requests relating to non-conforming structures only. This does not impact non-conforming uses. Um those would still go to planning commission and council. But if you have a structure that is non-conforming in the structural aspect only uh to go to be able to go back to the board of zoning appeals and not have to go to planning commission and council. Uh this amendment is in line with state code and

it's consistent with the zoning division policies. It also provides a path for legally non-conforming structures to become conforming if a BZA variance is granted. Uh staff is unaware of any opposition to the proposed ordinance amendment. We had one speaker in support at planning commission and planning commission and staff both recommend approval.

any questions on this one?

All right.

Hey, thank you.

All right. Very active afternoon today.

Okay. Council discussions, initiatives, [clears throat] and comments worth and then Jennifer and then Thank you, mayor. Um, so two things. one u recently I had a quarterly meeting a community meeting and I really do enjoy these but I just want to do a shout out to staff uh specifically Drew Langford with the communications office. He's helped me from day one uh very professional and and everyone else with

the city manager's office in arranging the the venue, the facility, [cough and clears throat] the technology for PowerPoint presentations and and everything else. I just want they're they're very helpful. I know I'm one of 11. I know there are other community meetings, too. So, I just want to do a shout out to to them. And then secondly, um resort micro transit um has been an issue at the resort. We tried the

freebie pilot program. Um well, that was somewhat wellreceived. It was not wellreceived because of look at the word freebie. It should not be necessarily free. And so uh this council has uh and I'm my opinion rightly not accepted that that formula or that concept for microransit but we have gotten requests from the rack resort advisory commission to look at new ways of new technologies

and vehicles and ways advertising and programming and so um we have not responded to the request but I think I would encourage us to ask and I've talked talk with staff about this and Vice Mayor Wilson might chime in as well that we look at a microtransit program perhaps do it's free there's that word again but it would be free to put out an RFP to see what the world what the

market can provide on microransit and the at the resort and I ask for you all's support for that I think my trans is the way to the future Jennifer yes mine is more somber um as I know y'all have heard not this weekend, but uh I think two weekends now. We lost two coaches in Virginia Beach, Coach John White, the head coach from Bayside, and Coach Ray Coloulston, who was most recently the assistant coach, a football

coach at Kimville High School. So, um they both leave behind uh wives and children. And um I didn't get the privilege to know Coach White, but I knew Rey and I just wanted to uh just give a brief reflection. Um, so Rey I've known since 2004. Uh, we met as young adults. We went to the same church and um, there were a number of us who just grew up together. So we met at 18, 19,

20 and then just emerged into our adulthood. And so many of those same people um, grew, you know, married, started families, um, serving their community as educators or started businesses. And um we all were touching base over the last week like can you believe this? Like have you heard? Did you hear what happened to Ray and can you believe this? And the loss is great when you see people like Rey and like uh

Coach White who were doing the good things and the right things. So mentoring not only their their players but people across our community who I think could offer their own reflections of how they impacted their lives. And so, um, I just wanted to, uh, have a moment just as a body to just give space to those, um, two coaches who served our communities and, uh, I know Bayside and Kimville, but even beyond who are

mourning and also reflecting and celebrating the lives that they lived.

um that we offer our condolences to them uh to their wives and to their children and um to the communities of students and and everyone else who might be thinking about them today. Uh just to give space for that and to honor the lives that they lived in our city.

Thank you for that touching.

First of all, I I I support uh Councilman Remick's request about the uh for microtransit. It it was very successful actually at the beach, but we didn't like the cost. It was way too expensive. So, I we've seen some things come across our desk that there are some other ways to do it that cost a whole they're much more economical. So, we can reach out and see what those are and

then we can decide if it's something we want to do or not. The other thing I wanted to uh ask the council is I I think a lot of you may have seen where uh Norfolk has treated their uh STRs a little bit differently. They're now they're they're what per night stay. Uh we charge $2 per night for our hotels.

Um, and Norfick actually does $3 a night, but we're only doing it for STR just one like they have one one bedroom.

And actually, these places can have three, four or more bedrooms. And it's not really quite fair, I think, to also to the hotels that they only they have to do it for every single room that they rent. So, I'd like to see if you wouldn't mind if we sent it to the rack to look at um just to see if they might have a proposal on it. And I I have some concerns for Sandbridge because

Sandbridge does have some mega houses that could have 10 13 bedrooms and maybe that's going too far. But if we could get the rack to kind of look at that and uh you this doesn't affect really our locals. it really affects, you know, visitors coming in and if they're if they've got one, two, you know, families and they're renting a lot more rooms, then perhaps it would be more fair to to

do a per bedroom. Does anybody have any problem with sending that to rack to look at?

Why not?

Mr. Mayor, I just want to clarify microtransit in your focus action plan today. Um you talk about you talked about this at your retreat. You're including direction and if you all adopt that for us to explore options for council's consideration for microtransit and Mr. Mayor um council asks us about that information on the STR program that no enacted. We said council some information if council is okay with it.

We don't mind um having staff work with rack to give council an advisory opinion for it future consideration on should it adopt such a program and then where it should um use those funds. And I'm so sorry. I meant to mention that you sent a really nice um report in our package this week on this. So, thank you for that.

Everybody okay with that?

Well, you mentioned Sandbridge and since Sandbridge is automatically, you know, they automatically were in the SDRs because of the general assembly. I would like for them to review any proposal that we have, you know, not just for RACK, but Sure. I think Sandbridge is so pretty heavily into that that they don't have a choice.

Hey Ameilia.

Yes. Um regarding the micro transit because you know we also have that situation with the um other Yes. Are you going to look at both or because this is for the resort and the other, you know, with Bayside and those people who are upset because the cost whether we're going to take it away December.

So, we'll go wherever council wants [snorts] us to go. Um, typically RAP just looks at the resort area, but if council wants us to explore microtransit citywide, we can. The big issue with the um the program, the microtransit program that the city council authorizes to participate in with HRT is that the local match doubles every year. True.

Right. So, it first started out at $350,000 and the council was supportive of it then.

Then when it went to $700,000, it came around the time of the budget and now to stay in the program, it needs to go to $1.2 million and then it goes up doubles [snorts] each year basically. So it becomes a thing that is um is difficult for us to absorb from a budget standpoint but we don't if council wants us to we could explore options for microtransit elsewhere as well. I mean obviously it's um nothing's pouring

concrete you know it's just really bringing council back information on what it would look like if there was a mic transit program that may make sense to be in the resort but also is there an opportunity to expand it in other districts in the city you know and council choose alakart how it wants to go from there with that information it was very successful and we have a lot of people who just cannot afford getting

whether the hospitals or what not having that cuz it was like $2 for them to Okay. Yes, ma'am.

So, at least I'm glad you're going to bring it to the table so we can look at look at that area. And then the other thing I want to thank some of my members, you were there, John and [cough and clears throat] Remick and who else? The mayor and Patrick for being supportive for me when I spoke at the Hampton Roads Planning District Commission.

And you did a marvelous show.

Thank you so much. And what it was about was we had a uh had put out a new booklet besides where the Virginia Beach Convention Center. Um they helped me with that first one that came out in 2021. Nancy, you will remember. And now we have this whole like a booklet that takes us through um all almost all 16 cities about unveiling African-American history and how that could be a possibility for having a boost for e

economic. We even have a two-day itinerary that we have in that and people were receptive and um one of the people liked the new technology that we had the QR code that you could use to visit the different cities. Of course um Williamsburg said we should use St. James City County. So we're going to correct that.

and oh yeah they're very and suffoc has already reached back out to see how we can move things forward. So I think this is something because I saw it in um when we went on the Hampton Rose Chamber uh leadership exchange how in Charleston they're using things that they know from the different African-American history to have any cookies to have whatever. So from the day one when you go there you

have that feel in the baskets. So it's the same way that something like this could be used because we have a rich, very rich history all the way to Williamsburg and continue it. So I'm glad that they were receptive to it and we'll keep it moving.

Thank you.

So u I have two things. One is about your task force and the other is about the cola. So you should I wait for the cola till you we'll do the agenda.

Yep. Okay. So, and then I was going to talk about the mayor's task force for the ebikes. Um, Stacy and I went to that and [clears throat] it was a fantastic uh start to I think the ebike uh where we're going to land on that. Um, staff was well prepared. Uh, Fountain Works was well prepared. Um, had a lot of staff that were ready to ready to answer any question that came up. Literally, I

think they had thought of everybody. Um so it was that part was very good and they gave some good presentations and then [clears throat] um the group that is on the on the task force is a diverse um in thought and where they come from as far as in who they represent. So um hopefully we'll we'll come back with a um they will come back we will be the leaison as to

bringing it to a good a good place for what what we want in Virginia Beach.

It's it's not just the resort, you know, it's town center, it's our neighborhoods. There's little pieces of this that that kind of gonna have to come together. And I think that's where uh that's where the real work is going to take place. I do think one theme that came out of it was um from u Captain Wesler from the police department was an education piece and just simply some simple speed limit signs saying hey this

is how fast you're to go on the boardwalk or town center. Um some stuff some past history that we've seen. I'm not I shouldn't say that that'll be in the final, but it was something that was discussed that I thought had some some good validity and that very something simple that might might help us. So anyway, just wondering, are you still putting people on this or you got your M Mary? You you said it.

I got you said, but no, it's out of courtesy to like if you're asking me, I've got a couple I got somebody from district one.

Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, I do want to say, and this is your prerogative, right?

It's your task force, but you said at 11.

Yeah. Is it okay?

I'll go by my own rules. There we go.

As much as I would like to add somebody from the great district of war and we it's a big group.

Yeah. But if you do have a public thing where you invite somebody to come in and try and meet up certainly will and I just to add to that I a lot was accomplished. I mean it was a 4hour meeting five almost five hour. It was a long the initial meeting, but I think we have good direction.

Yeah.

And um it it's a good group and it's going to good directions.

I'll give you guys a phone number if you already have.

Okay.

Hey Josh, thank you mayor. Um and just thanks to the two of you for taking this on. Um there's a lot of people I know all over the place who are really interested in it. So, um, [snorts] town hall district 9 community meeting on Monday, December 1st from 6:00 to 8 at Bayside Rec Center. We're going to be talking about um tourism and how it benefits the entire city, explain the tap and the

tip, and talk about um the new cultural arts funding uh that we unlocked from the amusement tax and um some pedestrian and traffic safety improvements. um in the Bayside. Um and then lastly, um just want to wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving. I enjoy [clears throat] I enjoy serving with all of you.

Thank you, Barbara.

Um since Josh mentioned December 1st, you're reminding me I'm also having a special u district 2 uh session in addition to the regular forum. Uh but this will be on December 1st to really talk about how we go forward with the 101 system. When you look at district two, district 2 is almost well I think it's 46% of the city area. We're extremely diverse, extremely large and I just want to make certain that we are

including all areas of the district when we are operating now going forward because we are very very different and I don't want anybody to think it's just the ITA or just the transition area. we are Blackwater and Knots Island and Sandbridge and everything in between.

So, this session is going to be really looking to make sure we're including everybody and how we're going to do it.

I I'm really interested in hearing what people are expecting of us now that we're going to be a 101 system and we're going to I think we're going to be operating differently and I want to know what the people expect. So, that will be our session on the the first a couple of other things.

Um that uh well maybe this is an agenda review but okay okay what's that what's that Barbara oh well are we are we doing the agenda review now yeah are we ready um on December 17th our state delegate an Feral Tada Mike Beluchcci and myself are having a joint town hall meeting at the central library from 6:00 to 7:30.

Uh the theme's going to be city um city constitutional officers. So, they're going to be invited to come and um talk about what they do and also some of the uh city um our city assessor is going to come talk about what uh she does and how how that plays into city services. So, uh, looking forward to that. That's unique kind of a that's bringing people together. We can use that in this committee.

I'm just saying since we have one, two, three happening right around December.

Be good if these council members just send a note to the rest of us. Any of us want to come and listen in.

No, we already have two. have two.

Yeah, we already have two. Sorry.

I I tried to invite you all to the last one. I got told that. So, I I think I got to give Amanda CPR.

Barbara, I was just talking to him. Amanda.

Okay. Agenda review.

Agenda review. Well, believe it or not, so far there are no speakers.

and Zoom mic night and there's no speakers.

Oh, that's next week.

There's still no speakers.

Um, so so number one, uh, Councilman Hutch, would you want to speak to that?

Yes. Yes. Thank you. Um, as uh as we know, uh, I had put forth um, what I've referred to as a cola um, adjustment, but um, I've sent the email to y'all that, um, I've I'm deferring it as of for right now, and I'll just I typed I wrote some notes because I'm going to say a little bit more than what I normally do, so I don't want to mess up.

Um, after after much thought and consideration with both uh you all and constituents, I've decided to resend my request for a cola increase at this time and for deferral and ask that the um send it to the process improvement is that the steering committee to take a look at it and see if there's anything to move forward uh later on. May or may not, but I just wanted to do that. I did want to

say the initial decision for me to pursue the cola came after conversations with people who literally approached me about running for a council or the school board or various things. And um in my opinion, they were very qualified people who reflect the the wonderful diverseness of our population of Virginia Beach. And diversity is not just uh race, ethnicity. it was um pay and you know finances and stuff like

that and just walks of life um mechanics somebody that worked for one of our large hospitals um just different folks so I thought you know well there'd be something to look at um people but people who must work to provide for themselves and their families but could not sustain at the level of of the money that was being paid to us at this time um I thought was uh was reason enough to

to increase that group was to to raise raise that money. Um, one one thing I did want to say is that uh we are definitely more than a Tuesday evening meeting and I'll get to that more as far as what I would ask of of you and uh the director of comms and kind of what I just did a few minutes ago about saying about all our briefings and the different time we spent. We may not

become subject matter experts on everything, but I would say just on the the flooding project, we probably spent six or eight hours in the last week um going over that in addition to what happens on Tuesday. So, I just thought that was important. Um, as well for my colleagues and who have served and some that are on here now is another reason that I felt it was worth uh bringing this issue forward. Um,

we've had we've had we've had council members that tried to sustain uh being on here and then doing a regular full-time job and can't they couldn't do it. um it didn't it didn't work out for him. So that was one of the other reasons that I thought was a good enough reason to ask for uh a more sustainable amount. Um to me um cuz just with the demands and and trying to hold a

traditional job etc. Um, what ends up happening when you when you don't have the the money at the right place, um, you end up like us. I think there's seven of us that are either retired or semi-retired. I don't I don't want to put it on anybody that you're totally retired, but I think it's a large portion of us are retired. And not that we don't deserve to be here. I'm

not I'm not trying to say that at all.

We all bring different perspectives, different walks of life. um different parts, but I don't think that's 100% indicative of what our city is made up of. And so that's that's that's another reason in my opinion of why I did this.

Um you [clears throat] know, it's been 20 years since city council has had their the what I would say is a stipen at this point um increased. And unlike many other localities, uh it we're not at we didn't adjust financially. Um that was unintentional, right? Like nobody really thought about it that we were keeping this large amount of people that would be interested in serving but

can't. That was unintentional. But now with me pulling it and and and from uh the folks that have responded and that definitely do not want us to do it, it becomes intentional that we are now saying no, we're not going to make it so that you're able to serve with financially, you know, and with the constraints of having to have what all that we do. Um because I don't think any

of us would say that this is a Tuesday only day. I think I think on the low end is probably 30 hours a week is what I've been able to figure.

So I think it narrows the field for what can represent our city.

Another point for those that you know are have been vocal uh to remember is by keeping the the salary stipen so low and this is one of the things that they kind of say at the same time that we're like we're in the developers pockets and stuff like that which is a total joke but uh it makes the candidate more v vulnerable to be swayed by campaign contributions if you were able to

sustain it and put some of your own money into the campaign, then you wouldn't be as beholden to anybody. So, it's kind of like those that are saying don't raise it are also making it where you have to go out and raise money. It's just a I see it as a way a way of having to be. Um, and then lastly um for the manager and and to our director

of comms is I do think we should work on some sort of education because there is a definite lack of it when we when we when we get hit on open mic or for a subject, there's so much misinformation that is said to us. And I don't know, it's from this body that we have, we don't key the mic a lot to straighten that out, you know, when they just say

something that is just not accurate, you know, how do we do that? So, I don't know if it's a pre and I don't know that it would reach a lot of people. I'm not saying that. But somehow like we did like it did today saying we've had this brief, we've had a personal brief because it was such a complex issue that there's really nothing that we don't get. I mean, there's stacks of paper,

right? and you read and I read them. Um I hope everybody else does or at least understands it. So I think it's important for us as a body to figure out how because I think this is really has merit. Um I wouldn't have spoke this long if I didn't uh and I want to say it again tonight from the dasis. So you're going to hear it again. um but is is

that you to to get that out there somehow that we can try to educate as to what we really do on almost everything that is brought to us that a level and then just the last thing I would like to say and I do mean this from my heart is that on my boys heads and I don't say this lightly I was not doing this to get me a pay raise [clears throat] that

never entered my mind that just is not where I'm at in my life so I hope that means to y'all what I mean for it to be.

So anyway, thank you for indulging me. I appreciate it.

By all means, you know, bring it up during what you want to talk about during new business.

Thank you, sir.

Okay. Uh Stacy, and I'm not here to debate about anything, but as far as I I know that's an issue that people bring up that only retired only wealthy retired people can serve on council, but to say that seven people on council are retired. I don't I I know you and I, you know, I don't know what Barbara considers her work life to be.

Yeah. Um the mayor form is still the Henley farm.

The mayor certainly was not retired when he was elected in the SER. Uh Rosemary certainly was not retired when she was elected and served and I don't think Ameilia was retired when you were first elected.

Right. But I'm retired now, but I work you were elected.

You were elected. You weren't. So I think that's a Yeah.

I I don't know that that sure is a fair comment.

Sure. Yeah, Jennifer.

Yeah. So, to what um Hutch is saying, I've given a lot of thought to this as well, and I think the def the request the deferral request is to send this issue to PISK for like more information.

So, some things that I want to know about is, you know, we're talking about the pay bottom, so where it is, which is uh 28,000, and that it hasn't increase in however many years. So whenever there's change, I always in my mind go back to like the origin story. Why did it start at that rate? And really more specifically, why is the Virginia Beach City Council structured as a part-time role? So I know broader Virginia

politics historically had assumed wealthy landowning men were politicians.

So like the general assembly is part-time. it's $17,000 $18,000 a year because it assumed in its origin story the kind of person who would run for office could you know was doing other things and could afford to be out of work during January because agriculture whatever is a different season so the origin story of Virginia Beach politics I don't know but I know that the current

conditions are different just materially different we're no longer princess county we're the biggest city in Virginia so I wonder not only I would like to know you know how why it was originally designed as a part-time role my question is does it make sense to continue functioning in a part-time role considering the city has grown in size since Princess Anne County but then I'm also curious about um what our national

peers do because um we've some of us have talked about it and or perhaps you've just seen local coverage that some of our Hampton Roads neighbors ers have taken up this issue and have voted to increase the pay of city council salaries and they're smaller in size.

So, we could compare to our neighbors, but I would be interested in cities that are our peers on a national level. So, you know, our our demographics, the size of our city, how do they structure their city councils? And I will say, and I usually don't take like issue with, you know, media framing, but for me there's greater nuance. I haven't enjoyed or appreciated the reporting that city

council is voting to increase their salaries because that's not what the vote is. The vote is for the office. So for the office whoever may hold the seat whether it's us or anyone else in the future the kind of work that is required for this seat what pay is deserved in the context of I understand right politicians like I accept that the role we are scapegoats we get blasted we get

I am a nice person and even still I get the you all suck you're the worst ever and so you know we're certainly not in it for the money. But to Hutch's point, it, you know, I'm thankful that I have a position, uh, my employment is flexible where I can show up on Tuesdays. Um, but for someone who may consider, you know, I tell my students, you don't have to have a

college degree to run for office. You just need to be a registered voter, have enough signatures, have good ideas, and convince people to vote for you. So, could it be that there's a 20-year-old, a 21-year-old that's like, "Hey, you know, maybe I want to put my foot in the race, and I'm just getting started." and isn't even an option for me. Someone who could be really valuable at this table,

but their only decisionmaking factor to decide not to run is I can't afford it. So, these are things as we're discussing it. I I I it's valid that this is a service role, but I also just want to have the reality of it's 2025 and Virginia Beach is the largest city in the Commonwealth and we are not Princess Sand County. And yes, we are in district systems, but maybe I would argue even more responsive because of

it. How many, you know, town halls, how many respond, how many phone even more responsive to our constituents in the district, but in the city beyond. So, you know, I hope that we continue talking about this. I do think we should have done a better job with the public.

It's not just kind of right before and what are y'all doing and what is it? You know, kind of explaining what we do and the origin story of the seat and why it's part-time to begin with. Should it continue to be part-time is the question I think we have to answer and um for the amount of work that we do, what is a a fair wage for that. So um those are some

things I would like the to be a part of the discussion.

Okay, Rosemary and Josh, this has been fantastic dialogue. I really wouldn't appreciate everything that everyone has said and I I think big part of the problem being a Dylan Ro state is it's been controlled by the general assembly and we were until 2006 we're 18,000 a year at that point they let us go up to 28,000 and so it's 20 years later all of a sudden oh now you can go up to x

amount of dollars and if we had been allowed to do like our employees like two or 3% a year, I don't think anybody would have cared. But the problem was is we we were frozen and we something that we could do about it because of the Dylan rule of the general assembly.

So I mean it's it's kind of a shame that we couldn't we can't just do all right which we do with our city manager. Our employees got 3%. We gave him and and our other employees 3%. And I don't think anybody and I think Josh pointed out that would have been $840, you know, which is not even $100 a month. So, um I I think a big part of the problem is that we

were frozen for so long. And I don't know, maybe if you know anybody in the general assembly, if they could just say council and school boards could could raise the same amount that they're that they do their employees, also get retirement.

Yeah, Josh.

Um, thank you, mayor. And yeah, this has been a great conversation and and honestly, I think that is the whole point of this. The win is not is the conversation that that we get to have about this because not not enough people really truly understand what it is we do. Um or how much time we give and we enjoy doing it and we're lucky to do it.

Um and [clears throat] you know it's a full-time job for me. Um and probably I would guess everybody around this table.

um you know 50 60 hours a week is is kind of um normal and um and I I would do it for free. Um I know each and every one of you would if you could. Um because the [clears throat] the reward is the service and I mean this is the most important job I think I'll ever have other than being a dad and a parent. Um, and I better do it right,

you know, all three of those. So, um, you know, and and not not and people, like I I think was said, I mean, people have all these, you know, kind of assumptions about who they think we are and, you know, that we're kind of like cartoon characters sometimes, you know.

Um, but but we're real people. And I I was, if you remember, I was called a wealthy lawyer last week. My wife texted me and she's like, "Well, that's news."

Um, no, I mean I gave, you know, and we and this conversation, I think, got set up at the retreat. You know, I mean, I [clears throat] made a pretty significant sacrifice salary-wise. Um, I'm barely a lawyer anymore. Um, but, you know, but we we're we're we're in all we're in it together and and I think it's um I think it's awesome. And and we weren't pushing for a salary increase.

That was another word in the paper [clears throat] that I I think was was kind of um not accurate. We were really I think just pushing to have a conversation about it so that more people can understand us and and then you know when we had that conversation at the retreat I mean there there was a lot of things that happened since then.

There was a shutdown. there was affordability is an issue um na nationally. Um and um you know and each of us has those those constituents in our district that we we we talk to on a regular basis where it or or nonprofits that come up to us and ask us for five or $10,000 that we can't get to. But you know here we are talking about 20 times 10 and um there's definitely a better

way to do it. it. Um but [snorts] single member voting districts has definitely changed I think the job. Um and um and and I would I would uh you know defer to the folks who served in the prior system, but all I know is well you know the oath we take is to everybody citywide. Um, we're a little bit more hyperfocused on our district now than any of us have ever been

probably because, you know, we we have to be in those small spaces and we've got to be we we've got to attend the regional stuff and go to the citywide stuff and we got to go to the picnic and we got to go to the festival and the civic meeting too. So, um, and it's I just again we can't talk about all of [clears throat] that enough because I think and and and we're out in

community. I know we are and people see it. So okay work I I'll just quickly I just agree with everyone I think it's been a great conversation discussion I want to thank much for bring having the courage to bring it up it's and I hope it does continue uh I did side on the side of opposing it at this point just to have this discussion because there is a lot

of pain out there a lot of folks you know we need to pay some of our staff more and I'd rather have our staff pay to be honest with you but all that being said I am full-time on this and I would do it for free if I could, but I am working another job too and I'm working two jobs and making 80% less to be honest and I would and I want to

continue to do that. So I think it's a great conversation.

Yeah. Thank you, Ameilia.

And I join in this group, especially with what you mentioned, um, Councilwoman Rouse, the origin. Some people are not able, you know, to afford to be on board. Some people is no problem. It's up to why you doing what you're doing. You should answer that yourself. Am I here just to continue being elected or am I here for the people? Those things are important. And to Councilman Hutchkins, he mentioned

about those cuz yeah, everybody cannot afford with what time is very important and it is a sacrifice. But one of the important things if you enjoy what you're doing, if you enjoy serving others and realize sometimes with service, even all the nonprofits, they do uh fundraising to do something to keep everything going. So that's the same way you're looking at it. So I think it's important for us to education [snorts]

is key because as I listened the other day everything was being repeated just as though somebody handed a paper.

Yeah.

All of you say this.

All right.

So to me then you're not really thinking on your own. You're just going with what everybody else said about everybody else especially our rich uh lawyer here. But you know it's passed on without people actually looking at what is being said to say how do I really feel about this instead it's cookie cutter and we need to get past that and really look at it genuinely. So thank you all. Thank you Hutcher.

I appreciate that. [clears throat] Let me let me say, you know, Hutch, and you know, I really appreciate this and uh you know, if I could just give you just a personal, you know, a couple observations.

Uh you know, a lot of times the what the work we do is like cliff diving. Yeah.

There's time to make the jump and there's time not to. And it's not the fact here we are having the conversation and that's a good thing. 14 years ago when I started the process improvement task force was exactly for something like this to bring outside group of people you can form an ad hoc committee do it to look at best practices find out what's going on uh everywhere and you

know then you can come up to you know a decision that we would be able to take to the public that would justify any action that we do you know that was the intent we improved the pro uh you know the uh permit process you you know, pick has had its you share of good stuff along the year. But then, you know, the thing is, you know, the other thing is

still Hutch hit on, you know, we do live in the theater of perceptions. Everybody thinks that we're just rolling on money and you know, we're up on yachts living it up and you know, everything and you know, let me tell you that is not true at all. Um, and you know, I guess you know, being, you know, uh, the last at large guy, uh, you know, I've been around. And you know, what I'm going to

say now is, you know, something I I would never have said before because, you know, there was no reason to say it.

Uh but you know there's one thing you know when you run as a district guy and I was a district guy for 14 years and then when you become a mayor it's a totally different view about what the role is and everything. Uh I've been informed recently that they calculated that since I've been on city council I've done over 2500 ribbon cutings uh groundbreings and you know just showing up and doing stuff and that takes a

commitment and it takes a commitment and you know don't forget our spouses make the commitment too when we're not there and I think that's very important you know to realize um you know but you know once again with cliff diving you know for years when I became the Centerville rep. I heard about we are desperate for a rec sound and you've heard me say this before, but it's worth saying again.

Uh, you know, I actually got to the point where we we were going to design in 2015, but guess what happened in 2016?

Okay, and once again, cliff typing. That was not time to ask for a $52 million facility that had a payroll of three million a year. We pivoted as a city as a council and we went in the direction that we not we we should have done and you know things of that nature.

Uh and then we have the challenges of being a mayor and you know there there are many you know the one good thing about being ADHD I never have the same day twice you know it's always something uh but let me tell you uh you know but once again I was finding that work life balance I was doing home care physical therapy so I was able to you know change my uh you know schedule accordingly

and uh yeah but Then something happened.

It was called CO.

And that changed the whole thing. And then all of a sudden, my part-time job became extremely full-time, beyond full-time.

And I took a uh significant salary hit because I couldn't treat patients. And I was up to midnight doing paperwork on the patients and everything. I I couldn't serve those two masters.

And uh let's put it this way. I was making really good money and the cut that I took at that time was about three times of what my mayor salary is. I had to go on social security.

There were times that I had less than $10 in a bank.

And yeah, I'm not saying this for sympathy or anything. I'm just saying it's the reality of the position. and I finally was able to get a part-time teaching gig with re uh region. But we all know that this is a sacrifice. We don't do this uh you know you know to you know to make oursel wealthy and to do things we do things with the heart of servants

and I could just if I can say one thing that take a look where we are take a look at the chemistry of this council take a look at the diversity take about the expertise that everybody brings to this table and we all knew what we were going to make going in like I you know like I said you know when I went into the Marine Corps 1968 92 bucks a month and then then once I

made private first class it was a big bump up to $98. That's what I spend now when I take the grandchildren to send my cafe. Uh but once again I you know I think what we all have in common here is the heart of a servant. But you know once again you know with with the timing of things I think if we take a little time to pause and reflect and

also give the time for the economy to improve a little bit and you know things of that nature. Yeah, I think we serve our public well and you know, but once again, you know what Rosemary and I always talk about, we're delighted by the fact that what we see with this council is a chemistry that we can talk about anything [clears throat] and, you know, really work as a team for the

people. And, you know, once again, you know, uh, Jennifer, you bring up a point. You know, we're the largest city in the Commonwealth, 460,000.

We're all part- timerrs, you know, kind of by design, you know, but [snorts] once again, that's conversations, you know, for later going on, but at least we're having the conversations. And, you know, I just want to thank everybody for, you know, this was a tough one. And as everything we do, there's a public reaction, positive [clears throat] and negative. You know, we get blamed for

everything. Every time we vote, we're making somebody mad. Okay? Uh even on the simplest of votes. But once again, I think this is the course for now. But you know, once again, any type of thing for further discussion that in the future will make us even a better council is worthy of discussion. Okay.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Continue with agenda.

That was agenda and council comments kind of blended in.

Is that deferred? Referred. What? Just so uh if everybody's [clears throat] okay, we will have some consent for deferral and send a fisk. Okay. Sorry.

Okay.

That's indefinite, correct?

Yes, indefinite deferral.

Thank you.

And uh any of the other items? Anybody want to say anything on any other items?

Any other items?

Uh on item four, the uh 5-year renewal lease for the senior resource center.

I'm on the um uh exeicio board member, but that's not a conflict. I'm just a volunteer. But I do want to thank you all for that project. It's the best project in the city. I'm not at all uh proud of it a bit, but it's great. And thank you so much to the city for allowing us to use that. Uh item five, I am just not going to be able to uh

support this for a couple of reasons. It specifically directs the city manager to implement this plan. And I think it I don't think it's clear yet that the city what we're thinking economic development is is the same thing that the public is.

And I think that needs to be clarified.

But then there's this um item number. I'm just saying I'm voting against this item 2.17 where we say that we finalize the design plans for the new law enforcement training center facility in the ITA.

I I still say the ITA is not the place for that. Uh we know it's got very poorly drained soils and it's no place for us to build an $82 million facility.

So for those two reasons, I'll be voting against item six. Item five. Anybody else? Anything else?

I have a couple of items.

Okay, sticking with item five. Um the only issue the issue I have with uh this is that it [clears throat] says the Lita must be in the ITA. and we talked about um some available land, specifically this 12 acres off of prosperity that we were going to look and see if maybe that was a possible and I I don't have a problem with it being in the in the ITA, but I I just think

that limiting us to saying that it has to be in the ITA, I I don't know that we made that decision yet.

The council could change it. I mean, we've briefed on it. Y'all said that in the retreat, but we can change it. As I said before, um the [clears throat] decision doesn't get final until about June, probably like April, May, right? So, you appropriated funds. Your three previous directions was to do it in the ITA, right? We are under procurement right now to find a design contractor. The

design contractor needs to know where they're designed it for. That decision hasn't [clears throat] been made yet. So council could change that to say, you know but unless I'm [clears throat] mistaken, we gave direction to pursue that.

[snorts] Yeah, I was so just I'm just a little confused myself. So we had Birdneck Bird Neck 2 Prosperity way out. That was the gun range, never mind. And then and then the uh the the ITA.

Mhm.

Did we did we are those others done? Is that where we are? So it is at the ITA.

That's what I couldn't remember. So the last time we talked about this, council said do it in ITA, you know, and if council wants to, we can take that. We can say we work towards the design of Lita and not make it specific to ITA and we can come back to you all cuz it's not poured on concrete yet. But come April, May, we need a decision. When we award that contract, where are we telling this

design firm to design it? So, I'm fine if you pivoted cuz we'll always bring it back to you all because what I'm hearing is you all are uneasy on it, you know.

So, I'm fine. I'm fine. You know, we can come, you know, you can probably make an amendment. Can Mark can they make an amendment to that where they basically say, you know, work on the design of the ITA, work on the design of the the leader facility and we'll come back to you all before we make a decision on for a final decision.

Yeah. But I think we exhausted the other uh you know ways to do it and this was probably the only real spot we could put it.

Yeah.

It's not either side.

No. I I know that we exhausted, you know, burdeneck. That was fine. But that 12 acres of prosperity that has infrastructure right there, we asked the question. I don't know that we ever moved on. I just don't recall moving off.

I don't think I think it was bird neck one and two, wasn't it? Was there prosperity?

There was 12 acres right off the general booth. And I thought it was general booth. It's off.

It's at the park.

This could be park. Okay. Yeah, the second part of it's sitting on the street. This is um I'll say this we're blurring close session conversations as what's going on.

I'll say this.

All right. So, mayor, I think this make a friendly amendment and just say we work towards designing that.

Yeah, that's fine.

Cuz um I'm we do I can read this with a just some So, Vice Mayor, this is what it says.

for section is for 2.17. Finalize design plans for the new law enforcement training academy. The new facility will expand training capacity and better meet public safety. So we just basically struck out in the ITA, right? Yeah. So basically what we're saying is where it says in the ITA, we just strike that out and it's going to say finalize design plans for the new law enforcement training academy facility.

Does that need to be read in the I Yeah, I think you should just say with the amendment being we're deleting the words in the ITA from paragraph 2-7 on page nine.

2-17 page nine. Can I ask you a question about this?

Yes.

Um I'm I'm okay with that. Um only I guess because well not only because because um because we didn't know about prosperity we didn't know about we we didn't burn it's off it's off of Adam it's it's off of the 12 acres right so um but will we get to a place where because we've had these other opportunities are we going to distill them down and and that's this is where we're kind of

blurring things. Okay. So, um, yes, we will right?

That's all I know.

I don't even know. Basically, before May, you all need to tell me finally where it's going to be.

Okay.

Yep.

Yeah. So, you Well, before then discuss.

Yeah. Well, before then, we'll get it to you guys.

That's fine.

We're all good. [clears throat] Are you still in I will go so far as to vote no. I'll just uh express my concern about the fact that I think we need to talk a little bit more about what we need what we talk about when we say we want to pursue economic development.

So because I think you're not you're no longer discussion there. I won't vote go so far as to vote no.

Okay. And then I have a quick one on item two.

Um well I I mean I don't like it but I you know we're going to do it help them out. But um and I know that the wording says that that 5.8 million cannot be used to offset premiums. My concern is we get further down the road, they get a healthy fund balance down the road and then they decide that okay well we can take some of that fund balance and use it for

something else. And I would like to just limit them to if they get a healthy fund balance before they move any monies around. It's got to go to the CIP.

So, and you may want to explain this better, but it's going to be in their special reserve fund, so they can't move it around.

Yeah.

I'm gonna let Dana let Dana clarify, but that but that's right.

You tell them what they can do with that fund.

So, we put two governors on it. One is the location of the money. So it's in the the city side of the books, if you will. So the only way they can get to it is to make a request to the city for an amount certain and it can only be used to replenish their fund balance and it can't be used for employee um premium assistance. And so we feel between the

actual location of the money and then the limits on the use of the money that we're providing as much um guardrails, if you will, to make sure that the money goes where this council intends it to go and nowhere else.

Are you comfortable with that?

Yeah. I mean, if you're comfortable that we had the that they don't have the ability to take that money elsewhere without We believe they need it so much for this purpose that they don't have that flexibility that with their consultant that they would say their fund balance position is in such a state that they can move it elsewhere.

Yeah. But four or five years from now, the fund balance can change.

Oh. So, so this action is only for this fiscal year. We we can That's my concern.

They would have to come back to us.

Okay. Um Vice Mayor, mayor, can I Dana, can I ask you a question?

Sure.

Uh Mark, um could the council in the budget that we adopt annually and it could become like boiler plate language.

Did we give direction on that governor to be incorporated in that and then it'll be like a something that'll be as part of the budget ordinance?

So unfortunately you'd have to do basically what we're doing here because voter signs by state law there's really only two ways you can fund the schools in their budget, right? You could do a lump sum appropriation or you can do it by the major categories. And so in in that regard, [snorts] that's how you do it in the budget process. And what we're doing here is we're out of the budget process

or diversion process and we're putting it in a in a specific place that the city controls. And so again, you could do a future thing where it's in that place where the city controls and it's got limits to it. But you'd have to put on the city sides of the books because if you fund schools, there's really only two options by state law and neither of them give you the level of control the

council seems like it wants right now.

That's my concern. We used to do categorical funding.

Mhm.

And they begged and begged and begged to have lump sum funding and the council over a number of years finally agreed to give them lump sum funding which means they can move their money all around once it's appropriated. But this is different because this is in a special category. Does that make sense?

That I understand this is only we're only adjusting the 5.8 for this year.

Correct. ne five years from now they get a really healthy fund balance.

I'll let Kevin talk about it because he's on the BEC and actually lives [clears throat] member. Um so the location of which this is being appropriated is the school special revenue fund. As Dana said, it lives on the city books. The only time funds are appropriated or allocated for use from this is by approval by city council. So, say they don't request a draw down or a transfer from this before

the end of the year to their school um health fund, it will remain within that special revenue fund for a future point in time to be appropriated upon the approval by city council for the designated purpose to be for which it's requested to be appropriate. If that makes sense. In the past, there's very few transactions. It's not a operating account or operating fund, if you will. It is a fund that typically

schools park um appropriations at for use in the following year, CIP. So, it's it's really not a operational um categorical category type of of appropriation that goes to schools, if you will. We we look at this annually as part of the budget process.

Um Mr. Mr. Mayor Kevin. Um, but I think what Mr. Cumins is saying cuz even if that's a even if that 5.8 and I could be wrong and if I am correct me even council's authorizing that 5.8 to be in that reserve fund. Is that the same thing as the health fund?

No.

So I think to Mr. Cummings point is that in some off chance they may get a healthy fund balance and then a new board and a new administration may have a different recommendation. I think to acknowledge what Mr. come in to say that still is out there that Yeah, it still is out there. But this 5.8 will be in a fund here earmarked that they need council approval to move. But the health fund is

a different animal, sir. I think so. To your point, I think you're correct, sir.

Okay.

To so to that point, if they do have a healthy reserve, would we get to claw back the money in the in the special revenue fund?

We can really only control between now and the end of June. I think what you're talking about is years in the future.

That's what we're talking.

So I guess we're we're limited to the 5.8 of them. Yeah.

Remember they have to report to us every 30 days. [snorts] Well, once it goes to the health file, I don't think so.

they would they would have to request the transfer from that fund over to the health fund once it's in the health fund.

Correct. Once it's in the health fund, but our understanding and and and working is sufficient amount would be transferred over upon request. I don't think the desire or the intent um is to okay well we need it so we're going to request the full 5.8. it would only be provided based on what is needed to keep the fund solvent and whole um and more of a periodic draw down and allocation

that if the request is actually needed.

Okay. Are we ready to move on?

Are are you okay or do you want to vote?

I I think you know the probability that in the future they're going to have a very healthy fund and it'll be an issue might be minor but still the probability is there and I just in fairness I don't think they should reboot.

So are are you okay with it or you want are you a no?

I'm not a no.

I'm not okay with it. I'm not a no.

Answer your question. That's honest answer. Sounds like Mrs. He Stacy is definitely everything is on consent. Um number one is going to be deferred and sent to Pis deferred indefinitely and number five um item 217 on page nine is we're going to be deleting the words ITA.

I'm okay with that.

Okay.

All right.

We did it. We off to it.

Okay. The chair will entertain a motion to recess into a close session pursuant to the exemptions of the open meeting allowed by section 2.23711A code of Virginia is amended for the following purposes. Public contract discussion of the award of public contract uh involving the expenditure of public funds and discussion of the terms of scope of such contract where discussion in an open session would

adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the public body pursuant to section 2.23711A29 2 3711A 29 and that is the protocol uh project protocol stone and then also the 19th street uh parks RFP and then personnel matters uh discussions uh consideration or interviews or prospective candidates for employment assignment appointment promotion performance motion salaries

disciplining or uh resignation of specific uh public officers appointees or employees of any public body pursuant to section 2 uh 2371181 and that's for boards, commissions, committees, authorities, agencies and appointees. Do I have a motion?

So moved.

Second council.

[clears throat] Hi.

Hi.

Okay, we are recessed into