City Council Meeting - 10/21/2025

Paul, let's get this informal meeting going. And Mr. Duhaney, if you can get us going.

Yep. All right. So, Mr. Mayor, members of council, the first presentation will be a briefing on the Independence Boulevard and Wakefield Drive intersection project. As you all know, this project is a a stoplight project and we've been getting some um feedback from the constituents and council and staff to make sure that the council was inoculated in terms of the warrants and the reasons for this project. So, the

next voice you'll hear will be LJ Hansen to kick off the presentation.

Welcome, LJ.

Good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor, members of city council. Uh it's my pleasure this afternoon to introduce Wes Parker from VHB. Uh Wes is the project manager for the Independence Wakefield uh signal improve or not signal improvement, intersection improvement project. Um this project has been around for a while. It is um not normal that we would come to you to talk to you about

an intersection. Um but it's generated a lot of attention and we thought it would be wise for us to give you an update on what's happening and where we're going from here. Wes, welcome.

Thank you LJ and good afternoon. Um so the purpose of today's briefing is to provide an overview of the project and a history of the project as well as the purpose and need. Uh provide a public meeting summary from a public meeting that was conducted in March of this year. Discuss an alternatives analysis from a more in-depth traffic study that was conducted subsequently from that

public meeting and uh correspondence and outreach from the community. And then last but not least, any questions and answers that are uh council may have.

Again, this is anformational briefing only. We're not asking for any action at this time from council.

So, project location. If you're unfamiliar with the intersection, um this is uh Independence Boulevard and Paul Rivere and Wakefield Drive. So, there are two different side street names on either side of the intersection. Um it's just north of Hey Good Road, but south of Pleasure House.

So a little bit of project history. So back in 2018, the Thorogood community reached out and requested information and assistance from city and traffic engineering because of perceived um concern for safety and other hazards of the way this intersection operates. So subsequently in 2018, public works traffic engineering set out did traffic counts and did a traffic study and evaluated the intersection for the

warrants that may necessitate or could um encourage the installation of a new traffic signal. Those warrants were met in that 2018 study. It meant three warrants specifically and then subsequently two additional traffic studies were conducted or excuse me conducted in 2022 and 2024 after and I do apologize there's a a typo on this slide. We noticed right before the meeting that third 2018 date should

actually read 2020 when the project was put on hold um due to some discussions, but in 2022 and 2024, those traffic studies were updated again and re-evaluated and again confirmed that a signal warrant um was appropriate for this intersection. So continuing on to 2024, a design for a new traffic signal was started um and the design has progressed subsequently.

The purpose and need for the project has been safety first and foremost. So the idea was to enhance motor safely specifically uh for left turning maneuvers at an unsalized rail uh unsalized excuse me intersection crossing and also with a additional enhancement of any type of pedestrian accommodations that could be done at this intersection if a signalized intersection was installed would benefit

this connectivity east west across Independence Boulevard because there is no pedestrian crossing currently that is protected at this intersection.

So, you heard me before mention earlier back in March of this year, uh, a citizens, um, excuse me, a public information meeting was held. It was very well attended. We had 84 attendees at the elementary school where it was conducted where we received 45 comments in writing. 106 total public comments, 96 of which were from unique households who received as part of this. The image

you see on the screen here is a quick um summary visually representing where the households were that commented. The red pins, which I know it's a little bit hard to see here, but the red pins are those that were not in favor of the project and the blue pens were those in favor of the project. Basically, the split was 63%, excuse me, 61% were not in favor with 63% of the total comments

all being from the Lakemith Terrace or the west side of the intersection. The east side of the intersection or the thorough good neighborhood were ve uh almost entirely in support of the project.

So subsequently from that public involvement period, there were a lot of conversations and good questions that were asked and we wanted to go either even further in depth to study this intersection yet again to make sure that we evaluated even more obscure alternatives that had not been um more thoroughly looked at in the past up to and including using some traffic data that I'll explain here in a second. But

those five alternatives uh were conducted and the analysis of those five five alternatives really focused around the three yellow dots or the three intersections. What does it do at HG Good? What does it do at Wakefield and Paul Rivere? And then what does it do at U alternative one was doing nothing physical to the corridor except doing uh revised signal timings that uh correspond along the corridor.

Obviously, these signal timings were conducted at HG Good Road as well as at Ule. And so, again, the goal would be here to improve safety at the intersection with Wakefield and Paul Rivere by creating gaps by basically throttling back the flow of traffic along Independence. Alternative two, which is the current proposed alternative as we discussed before that started in design in 2024, was to

install the traffic signal as shown in this diagram here, a traditional signalized intersection. Alternative three was to close the median entirely.

So, this would prevent any lefts from the side roads um occurring as well as any lefts off of independence into the side roads as well. So, it would be a a complete closure of that median cut through. Um, it's important to note that this alternative and the subsequent alternatives because of the deviation uh or the restriction in turning movements, the anticipation was those vehicles

would go elsewhere within the community to make those movements. Alternative four, which u sometimes can be referred to as an R cut, but it's restricting the side road movements where they can only go right out from the side streets, but the main line independents can make a left. So, it allows the main line to be able to make a left, but again controls the left turns out of the side roads to be prohibited.

And then last, alternative five was to close access completely to Paul Rivere.

The idea behind this alternative came out from that that public meeting where there's a a a concern from residents that cut through traffic could be a problem and you will uh cover that in a moment. So the idea of closing the access to Paul Rivere completely would prevent people from cutting through that neighborhood um potentially. So with that the results uh we have a lot more results than are neatly summarized in

this table but we wanted to focus on three different main movements and that's southbound independence at Ule Wakefield and Paul Rivere left turns in the westbound direction. So coming from the elementary school side and then also southbound at Hey Good Road. So all these numbers you see here are delays in seconds. And what you can see here and something important to understand is

that doing nothing is is the status quo.

But any of our alternatives which will allow for the safety improvement at the intersection do have an adverse effect on southbound Independence Boulevard.

You can see here just for example between alternative one and two southbound at ule there's an increase of approximately 6 seconds in delay. Um but there is a delay because some the capacity has to come from somewhere to prevent those gaps. So we will uh dive in further uh other examples and and how we compare those alternatives for delay in a moment. the cutth through traffic problem. WSP, who is the consultant on

the project here, took an innovative approach using street light data. So, this is data that basically comes from a variety of different um p private as well as commercial sources. They mine data through Bluetooth connections and apps and other devices. And so, we were able to go in and actually do slices and determine where vehicles are going to and from. And so essentially the

analysis went from the points one, two, and three which you see on the screen down to Hey Good Road. And if they went through the neighborhood from those starting destinations again 1, two, or three, then the assumption was it was a cut through traffic. Therefore, it wasn't someone that just came out of the neighborhood going to Hey, good. So the existing cutth through traffic utilizing

this approach was actually 5% of vehicles coming southbound on Independence currently cut through um the Lakemith Terrace neighborhood.

Um summaries of effectiveness. So there's a lot of data, a lot of numbers and so approaching this from trying to determine what is the most effective way of analyzing the five different alternatives against each other particularly when some of the alternatives are very different. We wanted to analyze it against four different summaries of effectiveness essentially. So the first um effectiveness category was improving

wakefield delay um uh excuse me yeah improves wakesfield delay and the Q distance. So you can see here there's different graphic symbols that represent a check indicates the reduction in delay and Q distance um such that it significantly is going to reduce the uh need for a person that's driving out of the unsalized intersection to take a risky maneuver.

So when we're talking safety we're trying to slow people down and say hey you can wait x number of seconds which is minimal versus 300 and some seconds which is possible today. So alternative two was the one that provided the best um measure of effectiveness for that with the other alternatives either restricting that left turn mover maneuver altogether or um also slightly improving the um the turning movement.

All right, summary of uh effective number two is impacts the southbound independence. I mentioned previously none of them improve or don't impact the southbound independence boulevard.

That's short and sweet. Impacts to other neighborhood streets. This is something that we're very sensitive to and um is something that that requires a lot of engineering judgment and thought process, but inevitably when I went through the different alternatives and you heard me describe the left turn maneuvers that are going to be restricted. Inevitably, they have to go someplace because the demand generator

is southbound on Independence hitting towards Hey Good, uh particularly from the Thorogood neighborhood. So, um, alternative two is the only alternative that does not redistribute the traffic pattern to subsequent neighborhood streets.

And last, the fourth factor is does it meet the purpose and need?

So, does the purpose and need previously described? Which alternative meets the full purpose and need? alternatives three, four, and five um don't because we are preventing the left turn maneuvers and we are potentially shifting a problem further down the road. For example, if you come out of Wakefield, have to make a right, you'll need to make a U-turn at Ule and increasing delay there could make people

make again more risky maneuvers. Um so alternative two was the option there and then alternative one um it does improve and it's important to note the delay with uh redistributing the volume along independence does reduce the delay at Wakefield in an unsalized condition but it only reduces it marginally. It doesn't reduce it uh any substantial matter. So with that um looking at all

the data, alternative two is still the preferred alternative that meets these measures of effectiveness and uh the next steps for the project are finalizing the design, moving towards 100% design plans for the new signal in the fall of 2025, pre-construction preparation, including confirming quotes and ordering traffic signal equipment. This project is slated to be built using the city's on call

construction contracts. So, um, we will just be soliciting final bids for the metal, which is a variable cost, with construction slated to begin in spring of 2026 and completion in summer of 2026.

And with that, I'll take any questions.

Yeah, I know this is a bit of a hot button. Before I get to Josh, uh let me just say this and talking to a couple of the folks in opposition. Uh their concern was that, you know, just writing on independence, you know, a good back and forth. you know, there's always delays and they they were confirmed that the white sequencing on this would actually exacerbate uh you know, what they consider

improper white uh ineffective light sequencing. You know, what's your thoughts of that?

Yeah. So, um if we can go back to the delay slide. Oh, yeah. Um yeah. Um, basically in short, the delay, as as we've been very open about, will increase slightly on Independence Boulevard, but the real kind of silver bullet, which is certainly not simple by any stretch of the imagination, is doing something at HG Good. Hey, good road is the focal point of a lot of the backup and delay along Independence Boulevard

through this area because there's just too many turning maneuvers occurring at that intersection and too high of a volume. So introducing the new signalized intersection into the middle of the corridor between Ule and H good.

Yes, while it will effectively have some level of small delay as you can see here by these numbers. Again, alternative to uh the southbound through movement there, it's it's not significantly larger because the queue is exacerbated through the whole section due to the Hey Good Road intersection. You know, let me just say that, you know, my old district at um uh you know, Indian River and uh Skull

Road, you know, we have that very interesting intersection there.

Yes.

And Oh, yeah. Uh we heard about that a lot first, but it seems to be working now, but it just took an adaption period. I think we got six lights at that intersection.

Correct. Yeah. But everything is sequenced in a way where people can go and make a left turn at the same time.

And actually it was actually a very very dangerous inter it was considered one of the most dangerous intersections in Hampton Roads.

Mhm.

And uh you know but once again uh I think public safety is the key. Josh, thank you gentlemen and for the rest of the folks who've been working on this I think probably for well at least my two and a half years since I've been here.

Um, you know, I I guess I I should first say like I I want to say first that I live in Thugan. Um, and I there's a couple different ways. There's actually four ways to get out of the neighborhood. Um, two of them two of them have lights. Ule and um uh the commons. Um but there's 1,700 plus homes back there, two schools. Um and it's a way that I take out very frequently out of the

neighborhood. So, um I've been accused of being biased in this issue. Um, and I just I want to let you know that I I guess um I want to acknowledge that, you know, importantly, um, but but because I know this area really really well, um, that doesn't mean I'm not really familiar with it. Um, when my in-laws and my mother comes in town and when my kids get their driver's license, they

would be forbidden to traverse this intersection. I would, um, Can you pull up slide six? Mhm.

Thank you. Um, and how this issue came to me and like and first of all, I just want to say thank you for using your time to talk about a traffic signal. Um, you know, because we got lots of those in in the city. But, um, but this is this is something that that people have been asking for for about 20 or 30 years. Um, and um, and there there is some

different feelings about this. um in particular from Lake Smith, uh Terrace and and uh Hagen Point and um I'm I'm all of that is my council district. So, um I've got some people are going to be happier with me than they will be upset with me, I guess, over some of this and I've got to reconcile that. But, um how this came to me was I moved into the neighborhood. It was an unsafe

intersection. I knew and I knew it and I forbid my my in-laws from ever going there. and and uh I went to a civic league meeting and I and I found out that there was going to be a light there and um and I thought that was great. Um and then um and then a light never happened. Um and so when I became a council person, I went to a civic league

meeting and they asked me where's the light and I said well I guess I'm a city council person now so I can go find out.

Um and and I heard about the opposition from Lakes Terrace and I heard um that some of the um you know concerns about cut through traffic and and and throughput on independence um basically sold the project. Um uh that that that decision was made um you know not not I I I think it was made based on the community responses um and and and less on the safety data. Um, and so when I

look at our job around the table, um, even just trying to take, you know, take take the fact that I live in the neighborhood out of it, um, you know, I don't think politicians should decide where traffic lights go and crosswalks.

I think it should be a data driven thing. Um there is 10 times the amount of traffic coming out of Thood. Um on uh there it's a divided road coming out on Independence. Um there's like I said two schools. Um I've seen buses, school buses, um landscaping vehicles, fire trucks ambulances straddling the intersection trying to play frogger to get across it. Um and it's very dangerous. Um and I've been in

a couple close calls there myself. So when I heard about their the the the opposition, um I I slowed it down and walked around and talked to people. Um we we had a community information meeting. Um I've talked with our public works director to make sure that like you know the concerns about cut through traffic if if if they if they um if they come to be um that that we're monitoring

monitoring that um so that we have data to go back to the neighborhoods. But I mean, at the end of the day, what this really is is it's a traffic signal and a crosswalk on a street with a school on it. Um, and um and and so and Haywood and Wishark are uh that's complicated and that involves property acquisition and that involved potentially cutting off Wishark Cove and Witchtock and

forcing all the traffic onto a two-lane narrow road which road with no sidewalks. So, um, this impacts a lot of people, including folks in my district and district 8, anybody who goes to Independence Middle School. Um, so I'm sorry to belabor it, but I wanted to explain it. Um, and I wanted to let you all know that I took the time to talk to people and there are people who are

opposed to it. Um, but I just view the safety benefits as as paramount.

Okay. Anybody else at this point?

I tell you what, at least this is up uh you know for discussion and I'm you know I'm sure that uh there'll be some more public you know input coming forward but you know this is uh another one when you have you know when you take a look at you know this map up here and uh you see two divided you know you know communities you know it really makes for a tough decision but

I think ultimately um really comes down to safety, you know, and uh Josh, there were some significant injuries, uh you know, as a result of, you know, traffic mishaps.

What we're trying to prevent is broadside collisions. Um so there when people are turning left out of that neighborhood, which 10 times more of the traffic does than the other side of the neighborhood, um and they're trying to go left and south on South Independence, they've There's five cars in the middle.

There's people trying to go in different directions. Um you you would think people would observe like the courtesy of the I got here first and I go first kind of thing, but they don't. So um and then traffic coming down Independence is going 50 55 plus. Um, and it is and and there's some other unique things about this little area here where there's a service road or you know feeder road and

there's there's residential on it and you know those people we need to figure out a way to make sure that they don't get trapped on their you know on their feeder road street and we'll do that but um we're I I've talked to people um who who who but for a tree would have had a car in their living room. Um, I've talked to people who have uh rescued people from burning vehicles that were

overturned. Um, nobody's died there yet, thank goodness. Um, but um, this has been something that that that you know that that the neighborhood has been asking for for decades. Um, that meets the public safety checklist and requirements. Um, are there other options? Yes. Um, this is the better option in my view. Um although I don't get to make that decision just because um if you if you even if you were a

culde-sac on the other side of the street um you would still be dealing with left turns and broadside collisions and school buses and stuff like that. Um if you if you block the traffic, you know, coming out of Wakefield, then what you're doing is you're forcing people to take Michigan left, um you know, and go and go up to go up to a place where, you know, there isn't even enough room to

turn a long vehicle. So people could go up to Ule, but um you'd be driving a mile out of your way to just go back down to get to right where you just got to. So anyway, I I believe it enough and and I want to recognize there there's folks here who um I don't know, maybe support or don't support. I see a couple people who don't support it, but and I I

want to recognize y'all um from the neighborhood, and I appreciate you coming out. So um and I recognize that there's differences of opinion on it, but I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I that the engineers get to make this decision, the politicians don't.

Yeah. work. So, I follow on with that.

Thank you, mayor. Can I ask our chief engineer, Mr. Hansen, if you could weigh in on this his opinion?

Well, point of clarification.

Tony Utterbach is the city engineer, but uh yes, sir. I mostly I I recognize that uh there's a there's a lot of opinions about this um about this. The Department of Public Works recommends a traffic signal at this location. We believe that it is truly the safest option at this location and that that's what the data has shown us. There are alternatives, but we do not believe that in the grand

scheme of things, the best interest of the entirety of the city is represented by anything other than a traffic signal.

Okay. You know, let me just say that um you know, back in the day, you know, um when I was a district guy, the highest traffic count in the city was right in front of Regent CBN Founders in 104,000 cars a day would go between 64 and Centerville Turnpike.

And there were always backups, you know, in between there pretty much all the way down to Stumpy Lake almost. And then, but eventually, you know, when they got the new intersection in and they got the light sequencing, you know, it it it used to be sometimes you get it uh, you know, get a green light and all of a sudden you go a couple blocks and then you hit a red light and it it just

wasn't paid enough, you know. So I think if a consideration could be to you know not just inter you know the street light itself but you know taking a serious look at the engineering to move traffic uh you know all the way from Virginia Beach Boulevard you know you know right out to Southampton uh you know I think that might be helpful in you know taking care of some of the problem just my thought focus

group of one. Okay thank you all very much. Okay I think we're med uh moving on.

Okay so Mr. Mayor, members of council, the next presentation will be a briefing on a proposal for a convention and sports center parking. And in essence, basically staff is um interested in moving in the direction of starting a charge for parking in the sports center convention center area for the next tourism season. And we want to brief city council on this proposal to seek some feedback before we proceed. This

also is not the to clarify this is not the oceanfront parking garage um briefing that we owe you. We plan to come back next month and give you all options for considerations as it relates to um creating incentives for encouraging residents to come park at the oceanfront. So, the next voice you'll hear will be Amanda Jarrett.

She'll kick off the need and what we're trying to solve for with um charging for parking and also um LJ Hansel will come and give an overview of the um the path forward that we've selected.

Good afternoon, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, members of city council, manager Duhaney, and city attorney Styles. I'm pleased to be joined by director Hansen to discuss parking adjacent to the convention center and sports center. As you all are aware, the Virginia Beach Convention Center and Sports Center support city council's initiative to transition our community to a year-round

resort. Um we are heavily invested in sports tourism. And when these two facilities, which share the same parking areas, have overlapping events, um parking can be quite problematic. Um concerns have been well documented. you all know um starting in early spring of every year um we see as you'll see in the pictures to follow um complicated parking situation which does not set forth the best um experience for our

visitors and guests and those that are patronizing the two facilities. Um in response to some of the parking challenges that we've experienced, an RFP was issued to construct a parking deck at the corner of 19th and parks.

Responses to that RFP were due on Monday, October 20th, and will be presented to city council at a future meeting. So, here are some pictures that I'm sure you've all seen. Again, it's wonderful that our facilities are programmed to this extent. However, when we have individuals that are unable to leave the um facility or are towed or ticketed, again, um that's not setting the best impression for our visitors and

guests. So, city council has tasked us with analyzing the existing parking facilities and coming up with um solutions. Again, issuing an RFP for a parking garage is a part of that solution. Um but working with the Department of Public Works to establish a separate zone is another key part of the solution. So, just to orient you as Mr. Hansen begins his portion of the presentation. You see here on the map

the location of the sports center, convention center, and then the shared surface parking lots that exist today.

Thank you. Um I'm also pleased to let city council know that the department has hired a new parking administrator.

Um, so for parking matters, I am very much looking forward to having a new administrator who'll be able to come talk to you with a little bit more experience than I do. Uh, but council did ask us to look into the issues that that are identified at this uh at the I'm going to call it just the convention center, but it's the convention center, the sports center, the combined complex.

Uh, in the combined complexes today, in the combined complex today, we have uh 2,372 spaces. Um that sounds like a lot of parking but when we have overlapping events it is it is just not sufficient.

It's not enough for both. Um and we identified that uh enforcement is is just not practical because it's not a managed facility today. Uh parking uh management does not generally patrol through the parking lot looking for issues. Uh we we do respond however when we get calls from the convention uh and visitors bureau. There is no technology in the parking lots today. That means there's no technology that would allow

uh a resident to identify which of the spots, which of the lots might have capacity. So, as a result, we have people that are cruising through the lot looking for vacancies until they get frustrated and there might be late for their use activity or uh whatever the case might be. And that's and and sometimes we just see frustration parking where people just abandon their vehicle. And then um one of the other

issues and and one of the things that I I think bears mentioning is space turnover. And really that's why we manage parking spots. It's it's not a it's not a matter of trying to generate revenue or anything like that. Um but really uh the reason we manage parking is to allow for spaces to become open.

Uh when people pay a fee, they stay for a period of time. They don't want to pay more fee than they have to. Therefore, they turn over. um that allows for new cars to come in and park and and you have that turnover of the space for efficient use.

Um at city council's request um the convention visitors bureau and parking management uh evaluated possible options and we did look at the potential for uh creating a managed space at the convention center. Um that space would of course have be managed as in other spaces. there would be associated hourly fee and dynamic pricing as we do in other lots.

What we think that this does um this is it's not a silver bullet immediately. We don't just have more spaces, but it does encourage turnover by charging. There is an incentive for people to not stay longer than they might otherwise do.

Perhaps they're not going to stick around for somebody else's game or perhaps they're they're going to leave and go get lunch and come back. But that creates some measure of turnover.

Um, it will allow us to have a funding source to allow parking management to do enforcement throughout the the parking uh the parking lots. It will allow us to have a funding source to invest in some technology that we would be able to put up some signage to maybe identify uh how many spots might be available in say the north lot or the south lot. Um so that when uh folks are coming in on

19th Street, they might be able to see, hey, there's there's six spots available in this lot or there's no spots available on this lot. They know they don't have to turn in there and cruise up and down each and every aisle. Um and then lastly, we do think that this is uh this funding source would allow us to work with other funding sources and assist in the construction of new facilities such as the one that uh

deputy u manager Jarrett just talked about.

Um having said that there are some issues that we know about um in as far as were we to create this as a managed space. Um parking accommodations are sometimes listed in contracts that the CVB has with their vendors or their um activities. Um and of course high school graduations um would not we would not want to desire to charge for high school graduation. We think it would be problematic. um and and probably not in

the best interest of the overall city.

And then we also have to acknowledge that while this would be a managed space, it is proximate to the Atlantic Park area and so there would be some spillover from Atlantic Park and resort area events. Um one of the things I I did want to mention that this would be a standalone area. So it would be managed u in such a way as to um emphasize the needs for this district. Uh Atlantic Park is its own

district. Um we're looking at the resort area and trying to figure out how many districts should actually be in there and and we think that this actually will allow us to start managing each of these districts a little bit more effectively um and in trying to maximize their use, determining when dynamic pricing is appropriate. Uh so that perhaps if there's a large concert event and we're

doing dynamic pricing at the dome, we wouldn't have dynamic pricing at say the Ninth Street garage or the 31st Street garage or at the convention center. Uh that we're managing them independently safe and separately.

Um, next steps as we move forward, uh, the convention visitors bureau it will be reviewing contracts to identify those clauses that I just talked about, those clauses that talk about parking and any promises that we may have made in the contracts. Uh, parking management staff are will be making preparations to develop signage and um work with our vendor uh on enforcement.

Um we are tentatively scheduling to begin that enforcement uh beginning April 1st, 2026. This would be a yearround um managed facility similar to our parking garages and I think we have a couple of lots that are also year round.

Um and then um parking management staff will also begin shortly thereafter to develop a implementation of uh availability signage and trying to identify some of that technology that I was just talking about and putting that in place as funding allows.

And with that um we're here for any questions or any thoughts discussion that you'd like to have on that topic.

Okay, Stacy, thank you for the presentation.

I'm glad to see this come to fruition because I think it's an opportunity that we've been missing for several years and having attended some of our events here locally, I will think it's safe to say anybody knows my history, I've spent more time at sporting events uh traveling than most humans on Earth.

So, I know the pain of trying to find a parking spot at an event like this. And you know, I will say not only will most people not mind paying, but they would rather pay to have a spot, knowing they have a spot versus showing up and having to spend time circling the parking lot wishing something, you know, will open up. Uh so not only you mentioned that uh it would it would

encourage turnover, it's also going to greatly encourage car pooling and using shell services that are available at the resort area. So I think it just sol it may not solve it. It will address a number of issues as it relates to parking. And I I do agree with the assessment that we don't want to charge our citizens for um especially graduation but maybe any kind of city event, city sponsored event, but this is

to um you know address the parking situation doing these large events uh especially the sporting events where people come from out of town and and um use their vehicles for transportation.

So I I think it's a well thoughtout plan. And I think I encourage it greatly and um you know thank you for doing all that hard work.

Thank you.

Okay, Amelia.

Yes, this is Thanks again. This is really great. Um how are you weighing the management the staff against the price will be charging.

So that that's the that's the part of our next step is trying to identify what that fee will be. um how we're going to have to figure out what the staffing is, what what we think it's going to be.

This is a dynamic space because we have some weekends that are lighter than others and some that are really really heavy. Um we're going to do a little bit of analysis and try and and work with convention and visitors bureau and uh to to identify the loading for what what we think it'll be. Um it's going to take a little bit of work uh to to try and figure out what that rate is going to

be, but it will be managed. Again, it's going to be managed as a separate as a separate uh zone. So, that zone might have a different pricing schedule than say the resort area and it and it likely will.

Thank you. This is great.

Thank you, Mayor D. Thank you, Mr.

Hansen, for the presentation and the work on this. Couple things. Um, first of all, this is my district, so I get a lot of uh communications in March and April when folks are looking for a place and their son or daughter is or in a sporting event. So, it's this doesn't necessarily provide more parking, but I think it is a step in the right direction as we are looking at providing

more parking, i.e. a parking deck on 19th Street, Parks Avenue, among other things. The sports center continues to thrive well. We've done the new operators done very well there. the convention center continues to perform and then we do have Atlantic Park to the east that's also performing well at this point and will continue to attract visitors. So, it's part of a bigger plan and I appreciate it. Do we know yet how

much would be our own citizens paying?

We have a percent yet. Do we is it 50/50? Is it 2575?

Because I I do expect some push back from local citizens on paying for parking. I mean that it's just part and parcel of doing business and I understand that pain. So I'd like to maybe ask that question.

I I don't have an answer for it for you, sir.

I don't know how we track it because we don't track it now. So we don't really have a mechanism be able to say who's a resident versus who's um a tourist or visitor or guest, you know. So because we don't track we don't have any mechanism to do that right now, you know. But I assume you're right, sir. We will hear some good amount of um push back from some folks who don't aren't

typically used to paying for parking over here.

Okay, let's go with Josh and Rose. Thank you, Mayor. Um just a quick followup since you had mentioned that uh council member um when we go when we transition to um I guess what gateless ticket list um will there be a way that we could since we're looking at license plates will we be able to tell who's coming from where?

Absolutely.

We have a limited ability to do so. We it's it's pretty easy to do it by state.

Um, so when when you currently scan the QR code, you have to put your license plate in there. Uh, we have a limited ability to work with the state to get information about where that license plate is from. It can be a little bit challenging, especially given that we live in Hampton Roads and people move from Virginia Beach to Chesapeake and from Chesapeake to Portsouth and Norfick and we we move

around a lot. It it will tell us to some degree, but we don't have uh a great deal of spec specificity. It's easier obviously to tell if it's a Florida plate or if it's a Alabama plate or something like that.

Hey, Rosemary.

So, parking continues to be our biggest challenge at the ocean front and this there's no more land to go. We got a confined area and so we're going to have to look at a a myriad of ways to solve this problem and this is one piece of that puzzle and I think we've been very lucky and spoiled to have free parking all this time but to be able to

we're a victim of our own success of to be able to uh supply the the the need we're going to have look at other ways and this is one of them.

Anybody else at this point?

You know folks, as much as uh we hate to do it, I think this is the only option that we have right now. Um I think our um ultimate goal in taking a look at our fiscal uh viability in the future is to have the ocean front become a yearround operation. No shoulder season, no winter season and find compelling reasons to bring people uh there. Action sports, whatever it takes, concerts, wave pools

and things of that nature. And uh but once again, you know, once again, hearken hearkening back to being a district guy. A lot of people in the old Centerville district, you know, were adverse going to the ocean front because they couldn't find parking. That was the number one reason why a lot of my neighbors, you know, really didn't want to quote inconvenience themselves and go because neither can't find parking or

and I'll tell you what, the, you know, the worst uh uh thing uh input we get is when we read a letter to the editor from a visitor that, you know, got towed uh and things of that nature. Uh so once again it's up to us to find solutions and I think we got to move in this direction.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay. I think we're going to have some good uh council discussion and comments today.

Uh okay uh Michael.

Thank you mayor. Um a few things to share with you. Uh the first is that on Saturday morning, as I mentioned at our last meeting, we dedicated the Princess Anne Plaza Civic League signs and it was really, really nice. And again, I want to thank uh all of the city professionals and the members of the Princess Anne Plaza Civic League for their advocacy. It's a unifying symbol of um the Princess Anne Plaza community,

more broadly, the Virginia Beach community, and we just really appreciate the support the city provided and also that this council provided as part of our budget to uh replace the historic signs that were damaged, but when an apparent drunk driver destroyed them.

So, it was really good and I want to thank you a lot for that. Uh the other thing that I want to mention is that um this weekend we had special visitors from our sister city in Vibigan, Germany visit Mayor Wolf and also uh Gabby who's a longtime public servant from the city of Vivean. They spent time with our sister city association visiting multiple sites throughout Virginia Beach

and affirming our shared commitment to these important local relationships that connect us um through our transatlantic partnership around the values of peace, freedom, open society, democracy, and it's just a really nice um opportunity to see how culture, commerce, and um humanity can be um strengthened and affirmed through relationships like what we have through Bimigan and our sister city association.

I want to recognize the uh Sister City Association, particularly Maria Weisen Seal, um and the entire committee for welcoming Mayor Wolf so warmly. And um Mayor, I know you may have some reflections on that opportunity as well.

And then um I'd like to share one more thing about the Plaza Rescue Squad.

Oh, great. Yes. Uh it was a great opportunity. Um a while ago a number of mayors from 757 went to um you know to Germany to take a look at apprentice programs, internships and things of that nature and uh you know I had the pleasure of meeting the mayor there and uh last night had the pleasure of having you know dinner with the mayor here and uh you know it just broadens things and

there were members uh representatives from Paulwood High School that we have an active exchange program, you know, and then, you know, during my remarks, I said, "Boy, in a world that's in on fire, isn't it nice that we are building bridges literally thousands of miles long and trying to come together as a community can build? Uh, you know, the congeniality and warmth, um, you know, I

think our world desperately needs. Um, and then also we're involved with the Philippines. We're involved with most Norway. Um, and we're on Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland right now, Japan. And, uh, you know, and you know, hopefully one day uh, you know, when things settle down, I spoke to the mayor in the Ukraine in Odessa, you know, but once again, it just shows, you know, the heart and soul of Virginia Beach reaching out. Michael, I applaud you for your efforts.

Well, thank you for saying that, mayor.

I applaud the Sister City Association and our partnership with um our international friends and you know, it just goes to show, not to belver the point, but uh governments can have disagreements, but people can make real human genuine connections that transcend time and um political disputes. And that's what I think we're forging here through our sister city association. So, and the one point that you know the

mayor of uh in Germany, they only got to run every eight years. Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

He's also the city manager as well as And finally, mayor, if I could, I know a lot of other people have exciting things to share. Um this is a letter from the Princess and pardon me, from the Plaza Volunteer Rescue Squad. And um it was sent to me by the um squad commander Kyle Musant, Captain Kyle Musant. And I would like to read it to you um if if that's okay. So thank you. It says, "To

the members of the Virginia Beach City Council, my name is Kyle Musant and I am the captain and squad commander of the Plaza Volunteer Rescue Squad. I wanted to acknowledge a great event that has taken place within my squad that was made possible by this council. On September 21st, we had the privilege of putting our newest truck into service, a designated ambulance 1625.

1625 was built on a Chevy G4500 series chassis at the Atlantic Emergency Service Wheel Coach Factory in Winter Park, Florida. This ambulance is the sixth truck to be added to our fleet, and its addition could not have come at a better time. Due to the age of the fleet and the current volume of calls that we answer to daily, this truck was welcomed by our membership in a timehonored ceremony of pushing the

truck in. The history of this ceremony goes back to the 17th century where early handdrawn fire engines, ladder wagons, hose carts, and other apparatus of the 17th century had to be pushed back into the station by hand after every call. the horsedrawn steam engines that followed in the 18th century could be backed could be backed um up.

However, having to control the horses made it difficult to align the engine's steam connections with the station steam connections. For this reason, the horses were typally typically disconnected and the engine was again pushed back into the station by hand. On this day, the membership and family members helped us push in 1625 into its new home at Rescue Station 15 off Theelia Drive. The first

crew, consisting of maintenance uh Sergeant Thomas Pachillo and supply sergeant Glenn Halvert took it out on his first dispatch and thereby officially placing the unit into service and making it Plaza's sixth truck to proudly serve the citizens of Virginia Beach. This was all possible from the generosity and cooperation of the city council and Virginia Beach EMS. From the men and women of the Plaza Volunteer

Rescue Squad, we say thank you and look forward to many years of service.

Signed, Kyle Musicant, Captain Plaza Volunteer Rescue Squad. And I'll pass this letter around to all of you. Oh, that's really kind of cool.

Isn't that nice? Good stuff.

It's nice getting a little bit of history.

Yeah. and and they're again volunteers spending their time to uh serve and to protect and and to um support the the health and well-being of all of our neighbors and it's really great.

Okay. Anybody else? Yeah. Cash, what what were you doing this weekend?

Yes. Uh so excited. Um we had the community come together. Uh this weekend was Timberland Way uh weekend. And with that being said, I saw the strength of Virginia Beach uh come together in a very artistic way, right? And I want to give a a special shout out to our Virginia Beach public schools. It was the first time that I was able to see um since living here where the city council

and the school district worked in partnership to create a community event.

Uh, and with that said, um, College Park, uh, Salem Middle and Salem High School, um, I think received some checks from, uh, Timberland. And so he not only came back and received, uh, key to the city, which we're thankful for, and then the street naming, but he came back to give back to those schools, which each of them got checks. And so that was very, that was a proud moment to see the

partnership that formed. Uh, and so I'm thankful for Virginia Beach. I'm thankful for this council, uh, Councilman Ross, and thank you for being there, uh, on Saturday. And I know others, you guys had commitments, but everyone called me from this council and said, "Listen, um, I'm with you in spirit." So, I'm so thankful for this council. Uh, and was there too Chief uh, Chief Hutch was there. He was

there with me at 9:00 a.m.

Maybe before, but I had asked I think I was there first, but Play it back. Play it back.

I thought that was his first.

Well, he doesn't know. He doesn't know.

That's so um Hutch and I were there and I said, "Huh, you read uh the proclamation." And he says, "No, buddy. I want you to do it. And uh man, I tell you, we give you an introduction and he's the man needs no introduction.

I know.

We were we were able to see the the community come together in a very peaceful way. I'm thankful for our police department, Virginia Beach Police Department. Excellent uh just direction in traffic and flow of traffic. I'm thankful for our fire department. I'm thankful for those that were behind the scenes. I'm thankful for our volunteers.

I'm even thankful for Missy Elliot. She showed up in a big way.

In a big way.

And uh she was at the uh street naming.

That's cool.

And uh she it was a surprise because none of us know knew she was coming. So I'm reading the proclamation. They said stretch it out a little bit longer.

We've got a special guest coming. again with no problem.

And um it was nice to see Timberland's mother there. His family was there. And that was a moment that was captured uh on photo. Right. So they were so appreciative to this council and to the community what we did for her son. And from there you can just see that it just evolved. um to Salem High School where Dr. Robertson and his leadership, his team, I mean, he was decked out. Um and

I'm thankful for George uh and his team.

We had LED screens and uh Fel patched himself, beamed himself in through the LED screens, right? And um we had the kids in their expression. It was a very um visual and performing arts weekend.

The kids were doing dance moves that I couldn't well maybe I could do but but everything was done in decency and in order. Um and from there we we flowed into um the mocha. Um that was an expression where uh we did a VA fashion week. um and who does VA fashion week at the Mocha just really um brought it home to a crescendo where we advertise new clothing lineups. That was my first time

ever really being a part of a fashion show. So Virginia Beach knows how to fashion.

Can you believe it? I I I was there with my sunglasses on because that's what you do at a fashion show, especially if you forget your glasses.

What? No.

You forget your glasses.

Yes. So, I forgot my reading glasses and and Chief Hutch had to help me with that again. So, thank you, Chief Hutch. I was thankful to be honored by Senator Rouse and uh Mrs. Rouse. Thank you for being in attendance. And a special surprise, your son was actually a part of the show.

And so it was just a very fantastic event where it was collaboration, it was community, and we even Virginia Beach, let's see, last point. Um, we even flowed into Norphick. We went to the Norva, and the Norvas were Timberland and all of the, um, it was like a reunion for them. um all of the producers that were with Timberland. We had a event at the Norva which was very um musical, very talented. We showcased

some of our new uh artists that are rising up with, you know, I'm not very um musical, but I was there uh tapping my feet and moving around and my wife is there encouraging me. So, long story short, we had a very safe weekend. It was an economic um I think boom for our city. Restaurants were were impacted in a good way. Uh people ate our food, people dined in our restaurants. Um we

what it did for me, and this is my last point, is that it's something that we shouldn't stop, but we should continue recognizing our legends, recognizing those who have put us on the map. And so I'm thankful for this council. I'm thankful for the school districts. I'm thankful for our police department.

George, who's in the audience, I'm thankful for you building that stage that was uh constructed with uh strength, stability uh because uh the mayor and I, we were going back and forth and it was just solid as can be.

And thank you, mayor, for your kind words that you spoke. We don't give keys to the city uh to just anyone. And so it was a very thoughtful, deliberate uh council and mayor decision to give a key to the city to Timberland um which he from this point on is connected to us.

Thank you.

Thank you. And I just want to give compliments to council member Green. I guess every rookie council person has their baptism of fire and trying to put together a major project. And I'll tell you what, you you went through through some challenges, but it turned out to be a grand slam.

And uh what really impressed me, you know, was sitting on the stage, there were so much local talent out there that, you know, we just have to be really cognizant of, you know, we are indeed blessed and and and in my comments, I remember sitting there looking at the crowd and what do you think about the bleachers were about 3/4 full and then you had a bunch of folks sitting on the front lawn.

Oh yeah. And the thing is what impressed me, you know, it was a beautiful mosaic of all the people that make up Virginia Beach regardless of race, economics, uh, I mean, you name it. And the point is there, they were there because it just proves that music can bring people together. And as Michael Malucci says, arts can bring people together. And I'll tell you what, we can't control what

goes on in Washington and Richmond, but we we have a say in Virginia Beach. And I'll tell you what, I think that um we really defined what Virginia Beach is about. Took a lot of tremendous amount of coordination and uh I'll tell you what, it's uh you know, it's something that we can be proud of and uh let's do more of it.

Yeah. Hutch and then Amelia. So just to follow on much briefer than it was a it was a it was a fantastic u event and weekend and my I tip a hat to you buddy.

You put a lot of work into it and um it was appreciated all around and you could tell that there was a lot of good love out there. So it was really nice. two people, two other groups that I think we want to thank because there were several like school buses, drivers, a couple of the the bands. I think it was Tallwood was going to Richmond. So, they had to

be like had to be coordinated to get them in and be part of it and then take them up to Richmond for a big event. So, that happened. So, we had a lot of school bus drivers and then I believe somebody might help me out. It was parks and wreck with the signage and actually unveiling this public works was I started to say public works and then for some reason I was thinking the signage

might have been but um public works um what a great crew they helped us with the uh with the street closures you know it was a little bit tricky Pleasant Valley to to Linhaven just some unsung stuff that didn't take but a few minutes but they were able to make it happen smoothly and I really appreciate that making that happen as we know Linhaven Parkway is you It's not an easy shutling

parkway down. So, I thought that was uh very good. And then to continue on with the art theme, it was a busy day in district 1/7.

Yes.

Um we had the uh and then the uh and and I might need some help with this too. Uh it's the community art grants. Um creative neighborhood.

Create how was it called?

Creative neighborhood.

Creative neighborhood. We got a uh pump track at Brigadeon for the kids that was uh freshly freshly done up. The artist was there and and everything and the kids were riding it. Um it it's it was impressive. It was probably 100 people um for that event. So I I left from one and went to the other as as Councilman Green stayed with uh the larger event of course. Um but it was well attended and

what a what if you can see it from Laven Parkway. It's bright purple and some other colors and to see the kids using it already I thought was uh pretty cool.

So that was a good thing for bring it in.

Thank you.

Good. Amelia.

Well, I want to thank Council Member Green. He really did a good show from the pool side all the way through. He was very courteous and it went well.

There was no rockus or anything like that.

Also, there were two young ladies I want to mention who were also Tamaya Davis and Michelle, his cousin, who were kind of behind the scene, but they were strong, very strong women going through that event all the way to the end. Her sister came, not real sister, but they've grown up together that came out to Kesha to walk along with her. Came in from Atlanta just for that show.

So, you've earned your stripes. Thank you.

Go ahead, Josh and um thank you, U mayor and and uh Councilwoman Ross Hammond, you reminded me and I was able to attend on Friday and I it it blew me away. You did a great job. Um everybody there did a great job. The young singer there was phenomenal. The catering, whoever donated that like and the guy who owned the restaurant was there, I mean really very very nice. Um, and it also reinforced me, reinforced in

my mind how awesome an event venue Mocha is in that in that atrium. Um, so we got to be really thoughtful about like how we make sure that for community use. Um, but these amazing students from NOFK State.

Yes.

Um, in the technology program and how they're connect I mean it's just unbelievable. They were they were connected through Dominion I think. Um and then I also met people from all over the country there all over the place and some some really big people in the entertainment industry that were there just kind of on a low-key basis. And um anyway, great job.

Thank you.

Yep.

Thank you, Mayor. And I also want to pile on, you know, Councilman Green, but also the city, uh, George Ocarz and and everyone else who put a lot of time, talent, and treasure into this, the Mocha attended also. How many people were involved around the city, not just with the Saturday morning parade and the ribbon cutting and the key, but just Friday night, there's two events on Friday, the Sunday fashion show, the

technology emphasis on Friday night, the fashion show of course on Sunday. What a great event, Cash. So, congratulations.

and and also our city. We do need to celebrate our talent. So, on a different note, on a lot less fun um code enforcement at the oceanfront, um back to reality.

I'm not talking about parking.

I'm not talking about parking or taxes, but the next best thing, code enforcement at the oceanfront. Thanks to you all. We had the resolution back in August or so about the vulgar t-shirts.

The planning uh department along with the resort management office has done a sweep of Atlantic Avenue and has enforced our codes of building codes and compliances um that the retailers have to comply with. Um, I've heard a lot of feedback from a lot of folks on a particular code that requires retailers to not put or not place merchandise within 3 ft of an exterior window. And there's reasons why

for that. But in talking with Mayor Dyer and some others, Councilman Schulman, Vice Mayor Wilson, I'd like to ask this this body if you all would join me in actually uh turning away or terminating that provision in our code compliance requiring retailers to not place items within 3 ft of a window. They pay dearly in rent or on the property for that space and not in on the window. That's

not allowed, but 3 ft within the window.

So, Mr. city manager, what's next step?

Yeah. So, Mr. Mayor, if council is immuneable to that, what next steps would look like would be um I'll give the planning director um direction to take this to the planning commission and then the planning commission would um will review this and give council an advisory recommendation as it relates to amending the zoning code to make such a change. Yeah. So, it wouldn't be something that the council could do um

by itself. I think it would have to go through the planning commission process.

Okay, Jennifer, I don't have any initial resistance to that as part of that feedback. I just like to know why. What was the reason behind that policy?

Not I'm not sure. I mean, it may be part of the work they do and they we could probably we can look into the re research and the history and the context behind it, but it probably was trying to solve for a problem that 80s or 90s or something like that to keep certain merchandise away from the front.

All the t-shirts.

Yeah. Mhm.

Okay. Cash, did you have something?

I I do. You guys want to say there are two more um organizations I would like to mention. Uh poolside cooking. Uh Jimala uh runs poolside cooking. It is a television program that's designed around uh cooking. Um she and and her staff are wonderful.

Then a special shout out to Hampton University who made the trip down here to support our endeavors and their marching band was incredible. They put on a show. They really and and they did it for the purpose of saying they appreciate our relationship that we have with Hampton. And so, mayor, that's your work that you've done which made them um be committed to showcasing uh the marching band. So, thank you for your

leadership in allowing that to happen.

Well, I tell you, I got I got to give a shout out to Bill Thomas who was Hampton University's government affairs liaison.

Known him for years. He gave me a call and said a request was made by cash. You know, you know what did I think? And I'll tell you what, it just made it a regional uh event and that was kind of cool.

Okay, anybody else? Stacy, uh we had our town hall meeting last night at uh at the uh central library.

Uh we spoke about the referendum and I'd like to thank the uh city city attorney and the deputy city attorney did a wonderful job. And we also um had a discussion on the ebike situation in Virginia Beach. And I will gladly say that we had 60 volunteers to be on the task force. So I don't know how many we need, but there should be no shortage of people that want a piece of that.

So we got a rugby squ.

So um yeah, a lot of interest, a lot of uh people were very vocal about their feelings. So absolutely heard Barbara this Thursday is the meeting for district 2 for forum.

We have a lot of activity going on a lot of issues as you well know. So uh we're looking forward to a good forum this Thursday night 5:15 to 7 building 19.

Okay. Anyone else at this point?

Alrighty.

Okay. How about agenda?

I have the agenda. So, the only item that we have speakers on is uh number seven on the ordinance and resolution.

That's the ninth of Alaskan Road. So, um under ordinance and resolutions, notwithstanding the legislative package, does anybody have any issues with any of the others? And then the charter change, we're going to be uh referring that to November 18th.

Legislative agenda.

Yeah, I just want to say a couple things. Um just it's not so much it's about the process. Um we talk about more and more about how this group is working together and jelling and doing good things. And I do think we are. Um I don't, as y'all know, I've already spoke to this. I didn't I didn't care for the way the local option part was added. I think we could do better having

discussions even we do a lot of discussions and it's a good thing and I say it to the public. My back is to the gallery so I feel like I should return to them but um there are times when we have to talk and we have the rule we can't talk with three of us and I really think that's I voiced that with the city attorney. I think that's very

problematic. Um but it is what it is. No fault of yours, Mark Turkey. Um, but um, you had to tell me the hard truth. Um, but just in a more serious thing is is that I I do have some experience and some very welloiled machines running as a group. Um, very fortunate to sit at the end of the table with the fire department for a number of years and the USAR team and some other homeless

issues. I've been on boards and different things and I just think we've got to work a little bit better, a little more about what um put the politics aside and work uh together. We can disagree. I know we're going to do that. I mean, that's part of what we're here for, right? Is to have those times when we're not all not all on the same sheet of music. I get that. Um, but I

just I just think um it's been a couple times now that I I I would I would rather us have some discussions beforehand and so that you know what's coming. Um I just think it would be a better way a better way moving forward.

I think it would be better for our employees. I think it would be better for the citizens. Um it just it just doesn't feel quite set for me. I'm not I'm not calling one single individual out or anything like that. I'm just more saying as a group I think it's something for us to strive for.

Hey Hutchin, you know I certainly respect what what you say, but you know, let me put it this way. One, you know, hey, listen, I'm in a mayor weak position here. I'm just a guy with the gavvel, but I'm also the guy that, you know, kind of, you know, drives the agenda and everything.

And you know, a lot of times people will request to me even at the last minute.

Yep. I to put something on the agenda. And the thing is, don't forget it that was uh was presented at the time when there was a it was just as a markup. It was an add-on and still subject to discussion and scrutiny going forward. And whether we like it or not, the only time that I think we really kind of get bipartisan is around the time uh you know when we

do the legislative agenda. But the point is you know how do we you know that was a you know point of contention. As a matter of fact, the general assembly, if it wasn't for the veto of a governor, we would be burdened with collective bargaining and uh and as a matter of fact, it might have included constitutional officers that was totally out of their control. So, if anybody's been blindsided, you know, with things,

whether it be a new voting district or things like that, you know, I think, you know, uh maybe we got to build a better collaboration, you know, with the general assembly and hash this all out so when we do put stuff together, it'll be good.

Yeah. Just I'm I'm more speaking of us, but I hear you. Okay.

Yeah. If I could Yeah, please.

In a perfect world, I I think you're right. And unfortunately, yeah, we're not in a perfect world. And that that issue was not the only one. The charter change, you know, we're having to defer that. And that was brought up in August well ahead.

And we had a last minute change of that that really needs to go back and have another public hearing on. So I mean, I would have liked to pass that too, but that's being deferred because of a last minute change. So in a I agree with you in a perfect world, but we unfortunately Yep. And I get it. And I've been accused of having rosecolored glasses, you know.

So I I think uh I think sometimes I strive for that.

It's that upper level uh group and it and and I've had to be a part of it where your lives depended on it at some point. Not to be melodramatic, but it's what it's what we it's what we we argue, fuss, and fight.

You know, that's that's all right. you know, I've grew up that way, but I think at times that's it's just how I think we should be striving for.

But, you know, and Hud, you know, let me say and I agree and and you know, the during the time I've known you as the chief and everything, I have nothing but respect for you.

Uh, but then even, you know, at a meeting kind of last minute, Chief Travis came in, said he needed 60 people and we figured out a way.

Uh, we needed more money for uh uh, you know, cancer screening. We found a way.

We needed more equipment. We found a way. Uh police came in and said they needed a salary survey. We found a way.

Uh you know, we find ways.

And sometimes I wear rosecolored glasses, too. And I'll lend them to cash if you ever want me.

If we can move on to planning bonaf properties district four items two I'm going to have to same here uh Vice Mayor Wilson just not on two but just well yes two and three.

We're on ordinances, right?

Number four, Bradley and Betty, excuse me, Betty Kane, District Three.

Yes, Vice Mayor. That's a request for deferral from the applicant. You may recall the residential kennel.

I mean, did I say deferral? I meant withdrawal.

Withdrawals.

This is the 13 dogs, right?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. Um, number five, ASC Real Estate District 2.

That will need to be pulled.

And number six, 5023 Virginia's Boulevard, District 4 again.

Okay. The chair will entertain a motion uh to recess into a close session pursuant to the exemptions from the open meetings allowed by section 2.237. to 3711A code of Virginia as amended for the following purposes. Legal matters consultation with legal counsel and briefings by staff members or consultants pertaining to actual or probable litigation where such consultation or briefing in an open

meeting would adversely affect the negotiating or litigating posture of the public body pursuant to section 2.2 37117.

and that would be Atlantic Park. Um, public contract discussions of the award of public contract involving the expenditures of public funds and discussions of the terms or scope of such contract where discussion in an open session would adversely affect the bargaining position or a negotiating strategy of the public body pursuant to section 2.2 to 3711A29 and that would be Atlantic Park. And

then publicly held property discussion or consideration of the acquisition of real property for the purpose or the disposition of publicly held property uh where discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the public body pursuant to section 2.237183.

And that would be districts 1 3 4 5 6 8 um dis no district 7. Oh my god. I got a plan.

They got enough.

Only kidding already.

Oh, there's District 7 down the line there. There we go. Uh line two, District 6. District seven and six.

Okay. And then personnel matters, discussion, considerations or interviews for the prospective candidates for employment assignment appointment promotion performance emotion salaries, disciplining or resignation from a specific public officer, appointees or employees of any public body pursuant to section 2.23711A1.

Uh, council appointees, boards, commissions committees authorities agencies, and appointees. Do I have a motion?

Second.

Hi

I Okay, we are recessing to close.

and welcome. I call this uh to order and if you could uh kindly at this point if you are willing and able to stand for the invocation.

Heavenly Father, you are always with us and beside us. Be with us this evening as we consider the affairs of council to our great city. Give us the patience to listen, the wisdom to decide, and the strength to act. Amen.

And if I may ask for a moment of silence to all of those who pay the ultimate price to make our city and nation so great.

Thank you. And pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Madame clerk, do we have a roll call?

All present, your honor.

Okay. Ask for a motion for the certification of the close session.

Second.

Okie dokie.

One second.

The vote is open.

Council member Henley, may I have your vote please?

Thank you. By vote of 11 to zero, you've certified the close session to be in accordance with a motion to recess.

Thank you. Now, moving on. Do we have a motion to certify the minutes of the informal and formal sessions of October 7th, 2025 and the formal session of October 14th, 2025?

So moved.

Second.

Second.

The vote is open.

All righty.

You can do yes on one and you'll abstain on the one you missed.

I know, but just so just do it put yes and then state for the record.

Uh by a vote of of 11 to zero, you approve the amends as submitted.

However, council member Rouse needs to make a statement.

Okay. At this point, uh we're going to have a mayor's presentation to a very special awardee. Could we have the members of John Aragona come on up?

Come on up.

Come on. The whole family.

Okay. And we're going to ask uh Vice Mayor Wilson to go ahead and read it.

We're so happy you're here with us tonight. Um whereas John Aragon was a self-made man who immigrated to the United States from Italy in 1922 through Ellis Island at the age of 17. And whereas John Aragona began his career as a carpenter in New York and years later moved his family to Virginia Beach. And whereas in the 1950s, John Aragona took a significant leap of faith, purchasing

nearly 1,000 acres of farmland in what was then a remote area of Frances County, which he later developed into Aragona Village. And whereas John Aragona was a true visionary and is considered the first modern-day developer when Aragona Village became the area's first fullfledged housing development which included 3,200 homes starting at $7,000.

How about that?

Crazy.

And whereas in May of 1957, John Aragana donated 13.01 01 acres of land designated as school site located at 4722 Jericho Road to the Princess Anne County School Board. And whereas in 1958, Aragon Elementary School, grades 1 through 8, opened. As the school board constructed new school buildings to house the growing student population, Aragona Elementary was reduced to a K5 school in the late 1960s. Eventually the

Aragona Elementary building was repurposed for various uses and whereas John Aragona also developed a public utility station utilities in 1963.

Princess Anne County merged with Virginia Beach and Aragona Utilities was subsequently purchased by the city of Virginia Beach in 1974.

And whereas John Aragona continued to invest in the city of Virginia Beach in developing the Arizona shopping center in 1962, Princess Anne Plaza, Bay Creek Golf and Country Club, I mean, excuse me, Bow Creek Golf and Country Club, Magic Hollow, and Lagomar, which was was also quite isolated at the time. And whereas on August 12th, 9, 2025, the Virginia Beach School Board adopted the resolution negotiation for

dis disposition of certain Jericho Road properties, which directs the superintendent and the legal council to work with the city representatives to negotiate mutual agreeable farms terms and conditions to transfer the land once donated by Mr. Aragon to the city for public park site, open space and passive recreation, and for other limited public purposes that support the public infrastructure compatible with the

community needs of the surrounding neighborhoods.

And whereas on this day we honor a true visionary for his forwardinking and investment into the housing developments and businesses that are spread throughout and are a vital part of the backbone of the city of Virginia Beach.

And now therefore be resolved that the Virginia Beach City Council pause in its deliberations to express its appreciation to the family of the late John Aragona for his commitment, generosity belief investment and service to our city. This was adopted by the council of the city of Virginia Beach, Virginia on the 21st day of October, 2025 and present this resolution duly signed by each member of

the Virginia Beach City Council.

Sure. Sure. Yes. Can I just say something real quick? I just um Thank you. Just real quick. Um my name is Jenny Cecilio Cross and I'm the daughter of Rachel Aragona Sincilio. On behalf of our entire family, which is very large, we are deeply honored to receive this resolution for our grandfather John Aragona in recognition of his significant contributions to the city of Virginia Beach back in his day in the

50s. Um, we extend a special thank you to Vice Mayor Rosemary Wilson, Kathleen Brown, school board chairwoman, and Lorraine Smackco, president of the Aragona Village Civic League, for their leadership and for seeing this through.

We are truly grateful. We have a large family. My grandfather um had five, our grandfather had five children and then we have lots of offspring and husbands and spouses.

But we're very proud and very honored tonight for you um for the council to recognize his accomplishments and what he did early on in the city. Thank you.

I was going to introduce everybody, but it's a lot of good to see you.

Good to see you.

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Thanks for coming.

Oh, thank you very much.

We've done this a couple hundred times before.

I'll be smiling back here.

Come on.

Close.

Just look at the camera for a second or two or three or four.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Oh, thank you all. It's always great to honor people who deserve honors. It really helps so many people make our city so great.

All right, good job.

Okay. Now is the bid opening for the non-exclusive franchise agreement for the use of city property operating a cable uh television system. Madam clerk, do I have to read the whole thing?

That's a question for the city attorney, I believe.

Yes, please.

Okay, there. Ah, here we go. There's a cliffnotes version right here next to the term sheet. Okay. Uh pursuant to the Virginia Code 15.2, I will now summarize the bids that have been received for the proposal renewal franchise agreement to construct, operate, and maintain a cable system in the city of Virginia Beach.

One bid has been received. Uh Cox Communications, Hampton Roads LLC has bid for a right to place a cable system, equipment, and facilities in the public rights away in Virginia Beach for the term of 10 years with an option for one 5-year extension upon written mutual agreement in accordance with the term specified in the cable television franchise renewal agreement negotiated within the city. Are there any other

persons desiring to submit a bid at this time?

There being no further bids, the bidding is closed. City staff has evaluated the bids received and recommends that that Cox Communications Hampton Roads LLC be awarded a cable television franchise renewal agreement. We now open a public hearing for the purpose of the franchise renewal to construct, operate, and maintain a cable system in Virginia Beach. Are there any speakers?

No, your honor.

Okay. And uh that concludes that. Uh moving on now uh to prop uh prop uh public hearings. Uh first is uh proposed non uh the agreement there. We took care of that. Um, next is the lease of property T-Mobile Northwest LLC. Five parking spaces on top of level the parking deck deck of the 31st Street parking garage installing and maintaining antennas and radio equipment. Are there any speakers?

There are no speakers, sir.

Okay. And then finally, declaration and conveyance of excess property to Bars Road LLC or three parcels and Burton station known as 1229 1231 and 1249 bars road future pump station site.

No speaker sir.

Okay. At this point I will move forward and do the um speaker script. I want to remind everyone that the city council speaker policy that allows certain representatives of groups to speak for 10 minutes applies only to uh planning items. All other speakers, whether speaking individually or on behalf of a group, will have up to three minutes to speak on a single item. Speakers are reminded that the comments during the

formal session of the meeting must be limited to the subject of the item that is being considered by the council at the time you are called. For items placed on the consent agenda, a speaker may wish to uh have up to three minutes to speak on any single item. If a speaker wishes to address multiple consent items, the speaker will have a cumulative time of six minutes to address those uh items. Again, speaker

must live in his or her comments to the subject matter of the items they are signed up to address. And finally, I call upon all speakers and all persons in the chamber um you know uh to be civil under discussions and the quorum.

Whatever views you hold and wish to express, the city council wants to hear from you and and uh ensure that all viewpoints and all persons are respected. The best way to do this is for all of us to strive for facil for civility and respect. Are there any single item speakers?

Yes sir. One for L3 which is a legislative agenda agenda. Ernest Docs.

Mr. Docs, you may go on up.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Um, I just wanted to make Help is on the way.

So on the um

is it not working?

pull the microphone back.

So on the um legislative agenda, they wanted to um send it to the state. Um on there there's a section about transportation and I just want to make if they're going to make transportation a priority they need to maintain bus stops such as the one over near the convention center the um between HRT and the parks and recreation. They haven't been maintaining that area where the where the bus stops are. So you know for

people to take public transportation it might make sense to make the bus stop areas look more appealing maybe and you know accessible.

Thank you.

And thank you for coming.

Sure. That's the only that's the only one speaker that we have on see anything on the consent agenda. Sorry for Okay. Can I ask the vice mayor to do the consent agenda?

Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Under ordinances, resolutions, the ordinance to amend city code section 7-1,7-10, and 7-59.1 ray wheeled devices or vehicles in the resort area. Number two is the resolution to request the general assembly in section 2.03 03 to the city charter to require a supermajority vote to appropriate to approve certain land use approvals south of the blue line and we're recommending this to be uh

deferred until November 18th. Number three is the resolution to adopt the city's 2026 legis legislative agenda.

Number four is a resolution to nominate Thomas M. Ley, Philip A. Davenport and Barry Frankenfield to the governor's as candidates to the position of local representative for the term of office commencing January 1st, 2026 to the Southeastern Public Service Authority, SIPA. Number five is a resolution to authorize city support for Virginia Beach Restaurant Week and that's requested by Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor

Wilson, and council members Ruchi, Remick, and Schulman. Number six is the ordinance to authorize the acquisition of an agricultural land preservation easement from Bonnie G. Brightite 90.77 plus or minus acres the issuance by the city of the contract obligations in the um maximum principal amount of 1,523773 and transfer funds to purchase US Treasury strips.

Number eight is the ordinance to authorize the city manager to execute a lease uh 60 months ray office space in the judicial center at 2425 uh Nemo Parkway with the Commonwealth of Virginia Court of Appeals of Virginia. Number nine is the ordinance to extend date to satisfy the conditions the matter of Matthew E.

Manolle and Robert A. Manole regard closure of an unimproved unnamed alley adjacent to the rear of 219 54th Street. Number 10 is the ordinance to extend the date for satisfying the conditions in the matter of Whitney B.

Elliot Ra closure of one half of a unique unproved unnamed alley adjacent to the rear of 218 55th Street. And that's unit B. Number 11 is a resolution to approve attainable workforce housing performance grant to Grand Lakes LP. Authorize the city manager to execute the grant agreements and supporting agreement and request the Virginia Beach Development Authority to approve the grant. Number

12 is a resolution to approve attainable workforce housing performance grant to the silo apartments LP. authorized the city manager to execute the grant agreement and support agreement and request the Virginia Beach Development Authority to approve the grant. Number 13 is the ordinance to appropriate $72,000 from the tourism investment program tip fund balance to the FY25 202526

convention and visitors bureau operating budget and authorize the city manager to execute a sponsoring agreement with Max Media of Hampton Roads LLC regr.

2026.

Number 14 is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $259,94.75 from the Virginia Opioid Abatement Authority to the FY 202526 human services operating budget and authorize $77,564 as matching funds for regional recovery high school support efforts to mitigate the ongoing opioid epidemic. Number 15 is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $200,11 from the Virginia Department of Behavioral Health and Development

Services to the FY202526 Human Services Operating Budget Ray Workforce Development Programs. Number 16 is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $300 from the Virginia Development Department of Emergency Management to the FY202526 emergency management operating budget.

Ray support the activities of local emergency management agencies in establishing, maintaining, and operating emergency plans, programs, and capabilities to deal with nuclear accidents.

Open a public hearing on planning.

Number one is Phil M. Bonafette uh notification of conditions to a conditional use permit reassembly use at 244 2244 and 2252 Indian River Road. And that's in district 2. Number two is Elmer Properties, Virginia Beach LLC, 3909 Virginia Beach Boulevard LLC for modification of conditions to a conditional use permit Ray Motor vehicle sales at 3909 Virginia Beach Boulevard, District 4 with uh Councilman Green and

Councilman um um Cummings Cummings abstaining.

Number three is the El Elmer Properties, Bonnie Road LLC, Bruce B. Mills Revocable Trust and Adams Outdoor Limited Partnership to a conditional use permit, Rayb Bulk Storage Yard at 38.90, 3894 and 3898 Virginia Beach Boulevard, District 4. Again, with Councilman Greens and Cummings abstaining.

Number four, um Bradley and Eddie Kane for conditional use permit rate residential kennel at 405 Kings Point Court District 3 and that is for withdrawal.

Number five is state pool. Number six is 5073 Virginia Beach Boulevard LLC for a conditional use permit. Ray Automobiles garage and conditional use permit. Ray motor vehicles sales and rentals at 245 Pennsylvania Avenue and that is in district 4. Move for approval.

Okay. Do we have a second?

Second.

Okay. Any other discussion? Open a vote.

The vote is open.

Okay, there we go.

Council Mer Cummings, may I have your vote please?

She said you do. Yes.

You do. Yes. And then you because you I'll state your abstension.

Great.

Thank you. By a vote of 11 to zero, approve the agenda as read, the consent agenda as read by Vice Mayor Wilson, noting Council Member Cummings and Jackson Green abstension letters.

Okay. Uh we're going to hear item um number seven of ordinance to declare city- owned property at 333 Alaskan Road to be in excess of the city's needs and authorize city manager to purchase agreement for the sale of the uh property of Virginia Beach Alaskan Road LLC rate development unto multifamily residential commercial and structured parking uh uh facility deferred from September. Do we have any speakers?

Yes sir. The first speaker is Andy Schiff.

and then will be Ashley Wilshshire.

Ashley's just going to read a statement from the two of us.

That's okay.

Hey, welcome.

Thank you. Um, good evening. My name is Ashley Wilshire. On behalf of my family, I would like to thank you for vi providing my cousin Andy Schiff and me the opportunity to speak regarding our request to purchase 333 Alaskan Road.

For over 60 years, our family has owned and managed the neighboring properties on Alaskan Road as well as the parking lot behind.

When the resort area strategic plan was introduced in 2008, laying out its vision for the area, we took note and due to our property's age, began planning for our eventual redevelopment.

From that point forward, we decided that all new leases would have an initial one-year lease term, then convert to month-to-month. All tenants were aware that due to the age and deteriorating condition of our property, it was going to be necessary to redevelop in the near future. It has always been of utmost importance to us to work with our tenants to the greatest extent possible.

We're proud of helping support the local community and its businesses for the past many decades. We understand that there has been concern about the redevelopment of the site and we want to emphasize that we have been working with the tenants and the local community and plan to continue to do do so throughout the redevelopment process. The sale of 333 Alaskan Road is just the first step

of the process and there are many more steps along the way. We will continue to engage with the community and the tenants to solicit their input and to keep them informed of the plans for the site. Additionally, we will be working with the city and the tenants to extend the term of their lease for a fixed period while they look for new homes for their businesses. Thank you all for your

time and we look forward to working with the city and the community to fulfill the vision of the strate the strategic plan for the Alaskan Road Gateway.

Thank you. Any questions?

Okay, thanks a bunch.

Thank you very much. The next speaker is Rob Bon.

Okay, thank you. Um, Adam Appleton.

Is there Adam Appleton?

Alan Hartcourt.

Alan Hartcort.

Rainspan.

Are you Mr. Span?

Okay, come on up. After Mr. Span will be Jonathan Langman.

Good evening.

You hear me? Well, cool. It's my first time actually coming here. Um, and the main reason why I wanted to come is because I've been a member of the creative community in Virginia Beach pretty much my entire life was, you know, moved here when I was young. Went to elementary school, middle school, high school, college, started my career here, started my engineering career here, all of that good stuff. And I've

seen over the past, I guess, 10 years, the creative community and the creative ecosystem really grow. you know, starting with the Vibe District with Fel's initiatives and, you know, the small shops that are currently where um they're going to be purchasing purchasing the property from. They've also lended a really really great atmosphere to just us being able to come into these spaces and create our work

and share our work and speak with people and do all the other things that, you know, makes a creative community really thriving and really lends to the overall community as well. So, I'm not here to really say, you know, things shouldn't happen or because I know there's a lot more that goes into it than just what we want as one community. I know that you guys have a lot more responsibilities to

a lot of other communities. So, collaboration is necessary. But what I will say is that um when I was reading about the the initiative is that, you know, there are a lot of things that are in place to help the business owners.

And I just want to also say that I think that the increase in um pricing as far as like um rent and everything like that over the next couple of years, I think that should be taken into a little bit more consideration. Um, I read that it was 30 months and, you know, I don't really know their exact financial situations, but I would imagine that a little bit over two years won't be

enough for, you know, them to be able to keep what they have and be able to relocate in a timely manner. And I would just like to also um say that that um yeah, it's it's really important for us to have those spaces and I think it's important for the city to also look at those spaces. It's not just shops that can be, you know, removed or, you know, changed and stuff like that. It's

part of the culture and culture is a big part of Virginia Beach, you know. I think we all can, you know, um attest to that. And so yeah, I think that just a little bit more consideration about it would be, you know, really, really beneficial and it would also touch the hearts of everyone that lives in Virginia Beach. So that's all I have to say today.

Yeah. Let me just say that, you know, we do take the creative, you know, culture very seriously. I I work with my dear friend Gabe Niles and everything and with the vibe and everything, there will be other opportunities and I I'll give you I can pretty much give you an assurance that you're you will be take you will be noticed.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor D. Can I also just add thank you for coming forward. Thank you for everything that you're doing. I hope you still will be engaged throughout this process and of course in our city. So, thank you for coming forward.

Yeah, of course. Absolutely.

The next speaker is Jonathan Langman and after Mr. Langman is Holly Martier.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Uh thank you all for uh being here tonight. I am uh Jonathan Langman. I am a tenant and I'm owner of Ace Gallery uh and one of the buildings connected and owned by uh Andy Chef. Um we've been there for three years now. Um and this building is in the center of the recently designated artery district which is home to the fine and culinary arts. I think we got that designation earlier this year. Uh raising this

building will not only change the physical landscape, it will also change the cultural landscape in Virginia Beach. There are two art galleries housed on this block. Uh Beach Gallery as well as my gallery, Ace Gallery. Um and that's two of only three galleries within this arts district. So we will be down to one and that would be Stravitz on the far far end. Uh we've hosted many local artists and given them a home to

showcase their art uh and supported this local community. Most recently, we've been hosting events supporting local artists, DJs, rappers. Just last weekend, we hosted Timberland as part of this Timberland Way weekend, and we got a behind-the-scenes look at how he produced the music and beats and how the culture of Virginia Beach influenced him. Our current exhibit in the gallery received a grant from you uh from the

Virginia Beach Cultural Affairs and showcases a local rapper and artist blending technology, music, and arts. Uh we've hosted you, Bobby Dyer, uh Mayor Dyer, um with a cultural debate with Gabe Niles, uh last summer. Um, so this community has centered around the arts and and we're worried that if this building is raised, we will not have a home. We look across the street at the Gold Key property, those businesses are

in and out every five or 6 months. They cannot be supported there. The rents are too high. Um, so we're looking to you.

Um, we we can't we the reason we are here is because it's an aging building.

It has character. It has nostalgia. It's something, it's an old part of Virginia Beach that everybody feels comfortable in. They don't feel comfortable going into these new buildings. It's it's this old piece of home um that that people really feel comfortable in and that we are continuously stripping uh Virginia Beach of.

Um the city's redevelopment plans while understandable from a growth urban planning perspective repeatedly undervalues and and this literative uh acronym is for you Mr.

Dyer repeatedly undervalues community cultural capital we continue to build these buildings and we're not supporting the culture and trying to bring them back in. We've built something over the last 5 years and we're afraid that that was all for not. Thank you.

Hey, thanks for coming.

Yeah, Josh, thank you very much, sir, for coming out. I just have a couple quick questions for you. Um, as far as I understand the situation. Um, the the property owner has most of the block except this one piece of property that's city property. Um, and I've visited the shops. Um, I think it's a really very cool eclectic environment.

Um, and uh, and all all the uh, retailers in there just are are really cool. They have like lots of unique things that they that that y'all do and sell. Um, my I'm just just saying out loud, even if we don't agree, I guess, to sell this Papa John's lot or the property to the the property owner, they would still potentially most most likely redevelop that that property because it's an aging building. And we've heard

I think from them that um you know it's it's beyond the the roof in particular is kind of beyond um the point where where they they can't keep throwing bandaids on it. So um I think if I'm just I'm putting that to you just to kind of hear what your response to that would be because even if we don't agree to I guess move forward that there will likely still be something happening there.

Sure. So the sale of Papa John's isn't just the sale of a quarter acre. It also comes with a timeline from you. So that's our biggest concern is that if we do have this sale now, we have our builders up against the clock knowing that they have to do something within I think it's two years or 30 months or three years. I'm not sure what the time frame is. I think that's our biggest

fear is that if they do get this Papa John's, we are most likely heading into a recession, possibly looking at longer term. So, my fear is that we're going to all be displaced and and nothing's even going to be able to be built. Um, just based on the economy and and the property owner, the landlord's communication with you throughout, I guess, the last couple of years as you've been a tenant, the

relationship has been good. And even um with with this issue, are they they they still are communicating with you? And and do you do you see potential to be able to work with them for uh you know for for us an extended stay that that would suit your needs at least a little better or Sure. Sure. I think he's offered a 30-month lease extension at this point.

Um the only thing that doesn't feel good about that is that we've been monthtomonth for three or four years.

So, why are we going to sign a 30-month extension to lock us into this building that is going to be torn down when it's the same lease terms that I have right now that are monthtomonth?

So, um he has been in communication with us, been a great owner, never had any issues. If we've had any issues with the building, he's quick to fix them. Um, I know it's been the narrative has been that it's an aging building, but it's an aging building with character.

Thank you, sir. Okay. Yeah, Stacey.

So, your hesitation to sign a 30-month lease is a business decision.

Correct.

And do you think the owner of the property has the right to make their own business decisions?

N comment on that. But I I wouldn't know how to to rate his business decisions.

Thank you.

Okay. Anyone else? All right. Thanks a bunch for coming.

Thank you, Mayor Bar.

The next speaker is Holly Martier and then Nat Natalie Ramos.

Good evening.

Good evening. Thank you for having me again. I forgot to bring something.

Short-term memory loss. I meant to bring my water bill also. um about the building. I don't think it's fair to these people, you know, just to take over. I think it's wrong. And I just heard about it today. I was like, what's going on? I don't think it's fair to these people to lose their business. Um building, building, building. I've had it. You've built so much already. It's

like enough is enough. I know it goes in one and out the other half the time when I talk here, but it's just annoying.

It's aggravating when you see people are going to lose their business because of see you know you guys and I think it's wrong for you to do these people. Um I'm just disgusted. The city is like get me sick but I can't move. I can't afford to go anywhere. That brings the water bill.

Water bill. All these fees are insane. I got it today. I'm like there's no You have to stick to the item.

Huh? You have to stick to the item.

Well, I put down that I'm going to speak about both.

No.

Uh, I did put that down that I'm going to put um water bill also, but I think both of them are wrong and I'm overcharged and it's despicable. And I'll send you a copy of my bill. I'll show you, you know, how ridiculous it is for two people in a house. I feel like I'm paying for other people and I shouldn't have to. You know, I could barely afford myself. And I just found out my hours

are being cut at work today. So that's not helping. So I'm going to get have to get another part-time job to afford to pay for the water bill and everything.

Okay.

So, but like like I said with the building, I don't think it's fair to kick these people out. It doesn't matter how much time. And I think it's wrong.

You know, it's you got to do what's right for the Virginia Beach citizens and for the businesses, not for yourselves. You know, you have to do what's right for us, for them, for the shops, for the restaurants. You got to do the right thing.

Okay. Thank you for coming.

The next speaker is Natalie Ramos and then Adam Appleton.

Good evening.

Good evening. Just for correction, for names sake, uh my name is Natalyia Ramos. That's quite all right. No worries. Um I am an artist in uh the city of Virginia Beach. Also a recording academy member uh and creative. Um, I'd also like to let you know I am the newly appointed general manager of Seldon Market in downtown Norphick. Um, so my knowledge base is quite understanding of

why there be a vote in favor of uh, you know, this new development, but my opposition um, comes with a story, if that's okay to be able to say. Um, my time at Thank You for Listening, um, especially with the creative and music community has been very important for me. Um, on April 12th, 2025, I came in to search for records for my new album, and it just so happened to be National

Record Day. I come across a record and it just so happened to be a record for Commander Omar Torios Era.

Um, pin that name for a little later.

Um, he was the Panameanian National Guard and he signed a treaty with President Carter in September 7th, 1977.

If you all are very aware of that date, that date is when um they appointed two treaties, the neutrality treaty and the Panama Canal treaty. It just so happens that he is the uncle of my uncle. And with thank you for listening, that place has been a home for me. It's helped me build my career. They have helped me in so many ways. Also, as Ace Gallery has

been a home for me as well, not only to share my music, but my mind and my soul.

that record is now going back to the Museum of Panama um for preservation with my family.

Um how that ties in for me as a creative and also um a general manager for tenants who are building small businesses.

As someone who is in support of community, I also want to be able to ensure that there is success. The city of Virginia Beach has always been successful in knowing that there is support in sports and also just new development, but with the music community, it's been a little bit shaky.

Um, I will be honest to say I've had some hesitation, but I've also had a hope of light at the end of the tunnel.

And I think especially with that and knowing how these tenants preserve our culture, our history and also innovation with technology and community development, I hope that you all have an understanding with knowing how that legacy lies, especially with preservation because without that place, I can't even be able to preserve my own family history. So, I thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for coming. Any questions?

Thanks a bunch. Thank you.

The next speaker is Adam Appleton.

and then I'll recall Allan Hardcourt just in case he came in.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Thanks for having me. My name is Adam Appleton. I'm a third generation oceanfront resident and I'm here to speak in opposition of the proposed apartment development in the Alaskan Road Gateway. And I want to argue that it does not fit the city's stated vision. It's poorly timed and it will stifle local creativity and innovation.

and it doesn't serve a vital community need.

This project, 215 apartments, a parking deck, and 20,000 square ft of mixeduse space, may look like progress on paper, but in reality, it conflicts with the city's own long-term vision for the oceanfront resort area.

The resort area strategic action plan and form-based code both describe Alaskan Gateway as a quote pedestrianoriented mixeduse boulevard that serves as a distinct gateway into the resort area. The city envisioned this corridor as a welcoming arrival experience balancing retail, dining and entertainment, not a wall of apartments. These documents even caution that quote large-scale residential uses

that disrupt the rhythm and scale of the resort streetscape are discouraged. That is exactly what this project does.

In addition to going against the stated vision, the timing for this project doesn't align with the momentum we're seeing at the oceanfront. The Atlantic Park and Dome were just completed. The Alaskan Road widening project finished this year. The Vibe just celebrated its 10year anniversary.

The oceanfront is thriving and we are poised to see a significant increase in tourism. Having the second most important artery to the oceanfront mired in massive construction over the next 5 years will undercut the improvements we've just made and lessen the tourism experience right as we are poised to see more firsttime young visitors than any time in the last decade. Rushing this project risks undermining the very

character the city is trying to build.

Beyond timing, this proposal would stifle creativity and small business growth, two of the city's top priorities in the RASAP.

The plan calls for encouraging quote, unique, locallyowned businesses and creative entrepreneurs that reinforce the resort's character and authenticity.

Outside of the vibe, this corridor has become an incubator for creatives and expresses the best of our city. We should be looking to recreate the success of the vibe, not reduce it to a single neighborhood.

An apartment complex with limited ground floor space does the opposite. It reduces opportunity, limits diversity, and replaces potential storefront energy with architectural uniformity. As our ASAP warns, quote, "Overly uniform or monolithic projects can diminish the eclectic and creative energy that defines the resort area. We don't need another Buffalo Wild Wings."

One of the key benefits touted by supporters of this proposal is housing.

Well, I strongly agree that affordable housing should remain much. Really appreciate you coming.

What's that?

Appreciate you coming. Thank you.

Thank you.

No questions.

Any questions?

No. Thank you.

Okay. I had about 20 seconds left.

I'm sorry. I saw the red light.

Um Allan Hartcourt.

Mayor, that's all the speakers.

That's all the speakers. Okay.

Does Mr. Beamman want to come forward?

So, I've got a question or two of the developer too as well. Forward.

Yes, sir. Mr. Rimick. So, um I want to thank all the speakers who spoke. So, just a couple of questions. as a landlord. Um because we heard some very good compelling stories from the tenants tonight, the creative uh tenants and art galleries. H how much and can you describe in the ways that you have worked with the tenants in terms of lease terms or lease rates or improvements to help generate what is

really is the coolest strip in the city.

I I can't agree more.

I appreciate the question very much. Uh we feel like we've done uh a great job in finding the tenants that really fit the vibe of the space. Uh as we said early on, we've owned the building for 60 years now. Uh we have been in constant contact. I've been running it now for 12 years. My aunt before that and my grandfather before that. And I call the tenants regularly, whether it's

prior to a storm, after a storm, always asking them how they're doing and discussing what we can do to continue to help them continue in the future. We have, excuse me, kept our rents extremely low uh for their benefit so that they continue to to thrive, especially uh during COVID, we simply stopped collecting rent. And when our tenants uh have had difficulty, we have uh allowed them simply to uh postpone

their rents until they could figure out how they can get back on their feet. We um continue to see how we can work with our tenants to make sure that they will be okay during this transition period.

And in fact, uh offering 30 months was really an opportunity for them to stay and be able to find a good space as opposed to continuing to go monthtomon.

We have tenants that have to buy their um their supplies coming up for the following season. They needed to know if they have a month. We said, "No, no, you have plenty of time. Please order your supplies that you need, whether it's lemon, cabana, and so on." So, I hope that that answers your question.

It does. And so, you're in business to make a profit and and also serve the community. Can you say why you're you're being so close to the tenants? I mean, you're you're on they're on monthtomonth. So, you have lower rental rates and and other terms that probably don't meet the market. Is there a reason why? And I think well, we come from a family of retail.

My grandfather started in retail. We also know that the building is in serious uh uh despair. I mean, it it's it's extremely old. There is not a tenant that we have that doesn't recognize constantly calling that things are leaking. We repair as best we can constantly, but at the same time, we also recognize that because we are telling them that it will be a short term until we know that the building

will need to be taken down that we then therefore make a trade and offer lower rent.

And just one more last question. So, we talk about engaging the public. Can you maybe describe some more? because that's you know if we move forward with this this will be my request that you meet with the public meet with the city planning uh department and your tenants you know what are what do you plan what can you promise us if you will that you will do that sure we're happy to reach out have um

community meetings which we've we've done in other jobs that we've been we've built in other communities where there's been concern um from the local community and obviously we be working with the city um to get their input so It's important to us. I mean, we we it's important for any project to be successful. You have to have a buy in from the community and the surrounding area. And it's really important that we

have the right elements there to be successful in that. And and that's that's that's important to us. And part of that has to do with the retail um is a a very big component of that as well as the surrounding community. So, we will certainly be more than happy to engage with those who would like to be engaged.

Pton just one last question. It's been a rumor mill for years and then that's my question. How many years have you all thought about redevelopment here with or without Papa John's? You again it's been said and I'm going to say in my statement later you don't have to proceed with Papa John. So it's been right two three four five six years right well we've actually we've been engaged with the city in communication

since 20 um when we started discussing the the redevelopment.

prior to the question is how long have we been thinking about redeveloping our building?

Oh, for 15 years probably. Um, again, we know this property has been at the end of its useful life. Um, and for quite some time. Um, so we've had that 15 maybe more, maybe 17 years. Um, we've been thinking about redeveloping it. Um, and so we've known that it's necessary and it again there's just no more the building's obsolete. now.

Okay. Stacy, I have a couple questions if you will.

You um are any of the current tenants did they sign do you have a lease with any of those where they had the anticipation of staying there long term?

At this point, there is no there are no long-term leases on the any of the property.

You did nothing to lead them to believe that they would be there long term.

No, I we comm I communicate with great reg excuse me, I communicate with great regularity that that the building is at its end of its useful life and that it will be redeveloped. We've been having this exact conversation for years.

So, with or without the property that we're talking about, what are your intentions with the remainder of the property?

Again, as as as my cousin mentioned, the building has is simply worn out. Uh we anticipate that we will be redeveloping the property with or without the Papa John site. anything. I'd just like to make note that, you know, I think that the Virginia pilot does did a horrible injustice to this council and to your uh request here today by publishing on their front page of the paper today that

council is going to make a decision that's going to impact the development that's going to uh impact the future of the um tenants on on this property that uh by what we do here tonight is going to influence your decision or give you a thumbs up or a thumbs down on the entire development. And I get that's not the case. The property's going to be redeveloped. The tenants have had plenty

of notice and they're not going to be there long term regardless of what the vote is tonight.

That that is correct. Due to the the the useful life of the building, it just can only for so long. So, and that entire area has been been totally renovated, re redone while you've been there holding on these years.

Yes.

So, you're about the last last block in the neighborhood.

I would say we are one of the last. Yes.

About the very last.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay, Josh. Um, thank you, mayor. And, um, council member, I actually read that same sentence and thought similarly. Um, I think it actually said that this this transaction would kick off redevelopment um when we just we just heard that it was going to be happening anyway. Um, and I just because there's a couple more steps left here. This is just like you said, step one. Um, and because you'll

you'll need to come back to the council and through the planning process on, you know, the various other steps going forward. I want to make sure just with your help and maybe that's the attorney's help um that that I know the sequence and process going forward because we're we're really we're just talking about this corner piece right now. Um and that would that would require us we would we would enter into

a contract and there would be a a feasibility period, a due diligence period um however long that runs. You would you would make your financial and physical inspections of the property. um decide whether or not it's feasible for you to proceed to close. You would need to go through site plan approval. You um I I did see some very basic renderings that you you had kind of floated through

with the public. Um I think you've heard certainly from us and the public that um it's an important gateway and corridor that um we we would we would like to see something a little little more. Um but but it wouldn't wouldn't be typical necessarily of you to have shown that to us already because you're so far you haven't even gotten to the contract stage yet. So um so I guess what I'm

what I'm trying to say and just confirm with you that we're all of the understanding that you know we we don't know what this is going to look like yet.

Um we don't know um if you're actually going to close on the property if we enter into a contract. Um, and then you've still got a street closure that that I think needs needs to be worked out. So, sir, what I'm trying to say is there are reasons where you're going to have to keep coming back to the council and the planning department um so that that we can make sure that we we have

something on that block that um that everybody feels good about. Is that safe to say?

That is very safe to say.

Okay. Thank you.

Anybody else? Okay. At this point, Worth Thank you, mayor. Um, I'll move for approval of the application to move forward and I have a statement after.

Okay. Do I have a second?

Second.

Any other comments?

It work.

So, thank you. Um, so again, like I said earlier, I want to thank all the speakers tonight, all the folks that wrote wrote us emails, heartfelt emails.

I am a patron a lot of the businesses uh on this street on Alaskan Road in this building. Uh, and I understand exactly.

I do sincerely, honestly, understand exactly what is being said and what is being felt. That being said, I do ask tonight for approval to move forward with the sales contract that is contingent upon the city approving a site plan, as just said, for a new mixeduse project and contingent upon the developer creating a plan that has both city and public input.

There are a lot of moving parts. Again, there are a lot of moving parts. design, public and city input, release of a public easement for the street in the rear of the building, working with current tenants and businesses, as we've talked about, establishing project and construction cost, huge uh hill to climb there. And finally, the ability of the owner to bring it all together to make

it happen. In other words, this is far from final as just said, and all the moving parts need to work together to make it all work.

Again, that being said, I am aware that the owner developer will give to each business up to 30 months. And this could take longer, probably longer, but 30 months at this point to find a new location in which to locate, relocate.

That's 2 and 1/2 years and probably uh from full contract execution, which could take another month, three months.

So, again, it could be longer than two and a half years. So, as for the sale of this publicly owned property, it was advertised for sale on the open market and two bids came forward. This bid was better than the other bid in terms of price offered. The price offered does reflect uh according to staff and in my opinion as well the market value of the property. Um and the

other bid wasn't as high and was also potentially and probably although not for sure was would would be an apartment building a small apartment building. So now I want to make some comments about the potential mixeduse project and this is important.

Since March 2020, according to the Weldon Cooper Center at UVA, which which studies and produces viable population studies and reports, the city of Virginia Beach has lost repeat lost population 5,500 in population since March of 2020.

lost 5,500 in population in spite of what we all see as a lot of building, especially apartment buildings across the city.

This is the state's largest city and this is a trend going nationally. We've heard about this, but this is our city.

So, many might find that to be an odd statistic as we see these apartment buildings going up. And I'm not saying we should go back to the the boom go-go years of before, but our comp plan, a comprehensive plan, housing strategies, resort area strategic action plan, all point to locating housing and density in the resort as a strategic growth area and especially Alaskan Road. This is the

Alaskan Road gateway as we all been talking about tonight. This is why the city invested in Alaskan Road as a gateway to the resort to Alaskan Road to the west and the north end to the north.

If we want to take if we want to attract young people and keep and retain our young people and have a desirable location for them to live and work, this would be an ideal location.

My family and I love these businesses and patronize them often.

The owner developer has done a fantastic job of assembling these businesses and I understand why the public is in love with them and how cold it all is. But I do firmly believe that we both the citizens and the city staff can work with the developer to come up with a plan that best reflects our city, our values and our desires. With two and a half to three years to finalize it,

it'll be enough time for this to work itself out or not. So, I ask for approval of the application with the stipulations contained in the ordinance.

Thank you.

Okay. Are we ready for the vote? Let's vote.

Mayor D, may I have your vote, please?

You got it.

And Council Member Henley, may I have your vote?

Yes.

I won't register.

Can you hit the button? I'm sorry. It won't let me It won't let us close it out unless you hit the button.

Thank you. By vote of 11 to zero, you've approved the ordinance as amended.

Sorry, I didn't see a no. I'm sorry. I apologize. 510 to one. You've approved the ordinance.

Okay. Thank you. Um, okay. At this point, we'll move forward with planning item number five, ASC Real Estate LLC, Micro Sher Sher, and the City of Virginia Beach Development Authority for conditional use permit rate buck storage uh bulk storage at 208 Unimist 2. Do we have any speakers?

We do. Um, so I have two individuals registered as the applicant, Michael Ireland and Greg Schmidt. Which if you'll just state your name for the record and you're and you're representing the applicant.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. Yeah, if you'll state your name, please.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Miss Vice Mayor, members of council. My name is Greg Schmidt with Kimley Horn. Uh, business address at 4525 Main Street in Virginia Beach. Um, what we are here talking about today is a conditional use permit application for an outdoor storage yard for a project located within the innovation park off of Princess Anne Road. Um, this conditional use permit comes by way of the

underlying zoning for innovation park being light industrial I1. Um, the innovation park also has profer design guidelines that talk to bulk storage being permitted within the innovation park.

What we are storing in the bulk storage yard, just to be transparent, is um items that are consistent with manufacturing of new uh acoustical generator enclosures.

That's what acoustical sheet metal makes. They ship these generators all all throughout the country. Um this is not an industrial junkyard um like some of the lingo has has been shared. This is a outdoor storage yard that is accessory to the manufacturing use that occurs with inside the structures.

Um we have worked um tirelessly with planning staff and and trying to implement some of the feedback we had received following the planning commission hearing. Um, we have worked to implement Commissioner Camp's request to have a shared use path that connects Princess Anne Road to Huden Way um through the innovation park and connects to a much larger trail network that economic development has invested in

throughout the park um that now connects to Tournament Drive and to parts of the the sports flex.

Um, beyond that, we have um accommodated additional landscaping. I I did a count earlier from our plan. We are are adding 200 new trees to the proposed development and up to 800 shrubs. That's just the woody vegetation in addition to maintaining over 6 acres of green space in the 21 acre parcel. So understand there's been a lot of questions about green space and the impact of the

development. But with our plan and the commitment to screening of the structure of the use of the outdoor storage yard from public view, we have really packed in the landscaping in a way that will be successful for screening of that property. um in addition to specifically adding a 8-ft um opaque privacy fence along the public view sheds to the outdoor storage yard.

Um acoustical sheet metal um and and Michael will touch on this, but acoustical sheet metal started in Virginia Beach, continues to invest in Virginia Beach and grow in Virginia Beach. Um we've also heard feedback about lowpaying jobs and things of the sorts. Acoustical Sheet Metal has over a few hundred employees that work and live both in Virginia Beach. So, their staff members have the opportunity to reside

in the very city that they work in, which I think is special. Um, and their story is is that of a a grassroots effort and and really establishing a a powerful business um in Virginia Beach that continues to invest in skilled laborers all the way up to um HR professionals engineers accountants marketing professionals. So, as this business continues to grow, the the staff that they need to support the

business diversifies, which I think is important for the opportunities that they present to uh to the city and their residents.

Um, those were kind of the big points I wanted to touch on. Um, some of the changes from planning commission, some of the implementation of the conditions that were requested to be added. The only other one I'll touch on is Commissioner Plumbley had requested that the outdoor storage yard be conditioned on construction of the actual structure.

Um, and the applicant is amanable to all the conditions as presented from the planning commission hearing.

Okay. Thank you. Any questions?

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

The next speaker is sorry Michael Ireland.

Mr. Mayor, evening.

Good evening, sir. Mr. Mayor, Mrs. Vice Mayor, Councilman, uh my name is Michael Ireland. I'm the executive vice president of Acoustical Sheet Metal. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak in favor of this uh conditional use permit. And Mr. Mayor, following your example with a recent ribbon cutting ceremony we had with the governor. I'll try not refer to my notes and I'll speak from the heart. Okay. Um

I want to speak on three topics Germaine to this uh issue. One is our relationship with the city. The second is our people and our product. Um acoustical sheet metal has been with the city for 25 years. We built five manufacturing plants during that time and we have met the obligations which the Virginia uh beach department of economic development has put before us.

Those obligations include employee count and payroll. Uh in addition to those obligations with this facility uh we intend to present a neat organized well-managed uh facility. it has little impact to the city and as our uh our architect has said that we uh have gone to a lot of trouble and a lot of expense to make this a a facility that is uh is not a heavy use industrial factory kind

of impact to the city. So we intend to meet that obligation uh for our people. Um right now our employee count is 700 people. This new facility will probably add another couple hundred people. our aspirations are much higher than that. Um, we have over 400 well over 400 Virginia Beach citizens in this facilities that we are operating. And while we love our industrial fabrication people, our

welders, and our electricians, uh to uh amplify what the gentleman just said, our Virginia Beach employees are controls engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, process engineers, project managers, quality control professionals, accounting professionals, HR professionals, and visual development engineers, not to mention the supply chain people and the field service work and and those kind of

people. So we offer a great opportunity for growth. This facility will offer us a runway to the future to bring more people in. We bring people in, we train them, and we develop them and we give them leadership positions. And uh this uh particular uh conditional use permit that we're asking for is for us to keep in tune with the just in time manufacturing process that we follow. We

bring equipment in. We don't overstore uh we don't um you know uh unnecessarily burden the factory with storage material that we're not going to keep or we're not going to use. And we intend to we we need this material for a 247 operation and the ability to bring that material in to stage equipment and to transport a Virginia Beach product across the country is vital to our success. Thank you.

Appreciate it. and any questions.

Okay, then next speaker is Mike Wowski and then Bruce Biddry.

Good evening.

Good evening, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, look, I have no animosity towards the acoustical sheet metal company. However, as stewards of the city's land and wealth, I find that you are failing. You spent approximately $500,000 on the latest draft comprehensive master plan.

The ink isn't even dry on it, and you're planning on gutting its soul, the Green Line context area. Representative Knight's proposed amendment to the city charter, an amendment that most of you agree with, would eliminate the area.

When he talks supermajority, I don't know why he's even bothering. You've proved that it's not necessary after the first silo vote. 4 hours of citizen time opposing the project, negative comments from independent organization, and you still voted to allow the project. What's our return on $500,000?

All right, let's look at the bulk storage yard. In the new comprehensive plan in the innovative park section, it states that this is where innovative technology businesses are. Really, you heard them tell you we're do custom enclosures to power generation equipment. Is that innovative?

Is it even light industry as it is currently zoned? You need to make the development authority find appropriate businesses. If you don't, the Green Line context area will become just another industrial park in a area subject to flooding.

The bottom line, the project belongs in one of the special economic development areas of the new comprehensive plan, areas that can accommodate future industrial and logistics businesses.

In closing, you must know that your continued assault on the Green Line context area comes at a cost to your constituents.

Construction on Hodm Road has already taken limited road funding from Centerville Road, District 7, Pleasure House Road, District 9, and Princess Anne Road Extension in District 2. And what about storm water management? Money that will now go to constant storm water mitigation in the green line context area will not be available in your districts. Any of your districts are safe from flooding.

Yet you are willing to allow a project that will swallow scarce dollars when you can just follow the wellthoughtout plan and better serve your districts.

The con comprehensive plan was and it's written for the whole city. Why not start using it to the advantage of the whole city?

I do agree that growth is good and it's necessary, but bad unplanned growth is dangerous and more important, it's bad for your districts. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your time.

The next speaker is Bruce Bill.

Hey, mayor.

Good evening, Council.

I love the idea of the acoustical sheet metal. I'm a Bruce Biddle. I live in West Neck. Um I own a satellite company, so I'm familiar with um acoustical sheet metal. You know, it's basically aluminum and and steel, and they do quite a bit.

And it's a it's a great company. It's just in the wrong spot. It's right next to CHKD building. Across the street is I mean, you guys pass all the time. Across the street is a neighborhood. Um the innovation park. Man, I I just wish you guys had had put it down damn neck where those Amazon buildings are. I mean, 700 jobs is 700 jobs. I mean, the guy back there made a tremendous presentation.

Man, we need those type of jobs. Someone gave me some numbers that the average pay was $45,000, but h boy, just listen to that guy. It sounds like it's a lot more. I I just think it's in the wrong place. They put a lot of money there.

Another number I have here that the tax revenue is 250,000.

City spent 25 million. You know, you can do the numbers on that. You know, it's 1%. It's it's just not a whole lot of revenue coming in. But, uh I my vote would be no to extend that out. Uh junkyard.

I mean, they talk about putting um generators there and whatnot, and generators just don't make a lot of noise. I I just know from my business that when I've got a place where I put a lot of stuff, I go out there and I've got to move the sheet metal, I've got to move the metal, I've got to design stuff, and that's just what I do with the neighborhoods with CHKD and some of

the others. Um, it's problematic.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for coming.

You're welcome.

Mr. Schmidt, would you like to come back up for rebuttal or Mr. Ireland? I'm not sure which.

I don't have much else to add unless there's any questions. I I will make a statement as a civil engineer in the city of Virginia Beach that um City of Virginia Beach's staff both on public works and development services does an outstanding job and evaluating the plans that we put in front of them. It's a brutal process um that is very well thought through and and very well um considered for for the quality of of the

plans that are coming out. And this has has become um Virginia Beach is known for one of the cities where the storm water is scrutinized the heaviest in the entire state on the entire east coast. Um, so I do want to give staff credit where credit's due in and the job that they do and and working with us and reviewing the stuff that we put in front of them.

Okay, any questions? Okay, thank you.

Okay, Mrs. Hley, I would like to preface my motion with a few comments.

As I see the application, the major flaw is that this property has a very heavy use that is being categorized as light industrial.

I'm learning that we don't have an ordinance clearly stating I1 light industrial and what is I2 heavy industrial. We just seem to call everything light industrial.

The applicant intends to use this site for the storage of the very large heavy finished product which are the generator enclosures that are fully assembled with generators on the interior of those enclosures produced from the first two phases of the company which are awaiting the pickup and delivery and the materials stored rotationally as part of the manufacturing process.

This bulk storage facility will allow the transport of these very heavy finished containers which require oversized trucks with more than 10 axles and usually require an escort. To me that would be classified as heavy industrial which should be I2.

It does absolutely affect the neighborhood it is in as well as the roadways it uses. In this case, particularly Princess Anne Road, which is not intended to be a freight corridor, particularly with trucks of that size.

Already the traffic from Hudome to Princess Anne is causing serious issues.

This property was reszoned from a to I1 light industrial for what was to be a research park for biomed institutions.

It was to be constructed in a campus style lowdensity development and the jobs it would provide were thought to be in the salaried sixf figure range.

When that did not happen, the biomemed design guidelines were changed to include other technologies, still research, education, and innovative. And so it became known as the innovation park. And of course, all of this is below the green line.

For the neighbors who were very concerned about the change, commitments were made that the new guidelines would assure that there would be high quality design and it would include site elements that would contribute to the ultimate goal of creating a parklike setting suitable to their residential neighborhoods.

In working with the neighborhoods, action was deferred twice on April 4th, 2023 and then on June 10th, 2023 to make sure we got it right.

Neighborhoods particularly mentioned in one agenda letter were Christopher Farms, Lancetown Meadows, and Princess Anne Meadows.

On June 20th, 2023, the new innovation park guidelines were unanimously adopted by city council. I might add that eight current city council members were a part of that unanimous vote.

Now, besides the guidelines not being met, there are many other concerns of this 21 acre site. The pre-development imperous surface is 400s of an acre. The developed imperous area will be almost 15 and a half acres.

This is an area known to have poorly draining soils and a high water table.

60% of the site's storm water will be eligible for city storm water storage.

The only site shown on this plan to accommodate the remaining 40% is only 29 or 2900s of an acre, less than one/ird of an acre. I'm hearing much concern about the drainage issue.

The water now drains through roadside ditches all the way to reach the Northlanding River. Will all of the city taxpayers be expected to pay their storm water fee forever for this maintenance?

There is great concern that if we can't drain the golf course there, we won't be able to properly drain this large imperous area.

protecting the view shed along Princess Anne Road by requiring parcels with frontage on Princess to install additional landscaping above, pardon me, above and beyond what is required in the city's landscaping guide is an important part of the Innovation Park guidelines.

It has long been the city's goal to maintain Princess Anne Road's appearance as it leads to the municipal center.

This proposed 250,000 square foot of buildings and three-story building with only a 30-foot setback just does not meet the standards of quality described in the guidelines.

And the concerns go on.

Acoustical Sheet Metal is a very fine company with good people as owners and good people as employees. And I'm very glad they're in Virginia Beach.

Of course, this property is a part of that incentive package to asssure that acoustical sheet metal stays in Virginia Beach. I do believe that there is other property in another industrial park that will better serve this situation, but this property is just not suitable.

We do have to be fair to all of our citizens. It is asking a lot to expect to expect the good citizens who have written and spoken their concerns to have their property adversely impacted to satisfy this property. I do hope we can find a more agreeable solution, but I'm going to make a motion that this application for a bulk storage facility be denied.

Is there a second?

Is there a second?

There being no second, is there another motion?

I'd like to move for approval.

And I'll second.

All right. Any comment?

Let me just make you know comment. You know years ago we had high hopes for biomed going into that area.

Unfortunately, the market did not agree with us and so we had to do a pivot and we val we value our industrial base and the people that come here whether it be steel, IMS a group of people acoustical, sheet metal, you know, because they bring value uh they employ people and they be become part of our community and you know the fact is that this is not a startup. We already have, I

believe, two facilities. They built the initial facility, recently put another one on their campus. And what they're asking for is an add-on.

And you know, you we wish that economics and market trends didn't change, but once again, they do, and we are responsible to adapt to that.

And when you talk about a company that has success of starting off with what eight people in 1974 and this will bring 850 jobs of well-paying jobs and me being on the campus a number of times and see the happiness and the motivation of the people that work there that feel valued.

And the other thing is too, they actually have training program where they come in and train welders, give people a skill, get people coming out of high school or maybe the people that were incarcerated, uh, people that really need a good job.

But once again, you know, we have so many, you know, once again, you know, we're a tourist base, we're a military base, but the other thing is there's a lot of really good u, you know, manufacturing that goes on that, you know, really puts Virginia Beach on the map. So, my thing is I'm really encouraged about this project and welcome that they're here and to help them succeed. That being said, let's open the vote.

The vote is open.

By a vote of 10 to one, you've approved the application as amended.

Okay. Thank you all.

Okay. At this point, I think we're ready for appointments.

Yes, Mr. Mayor. Um, the active transportation uh committee to appoint Donald Crudup the Agricultural uh advisory commission to reappoint John Cromwell and Jason Dolly. The Bayfront Advisory Commission to appoint Burl Saunders and reappoint Morgan Ayes. The Community Criminal Justice Board to appoint Judge Salvatore Aquinto to represent the circuit court judge. Uh development authority to appoint Michael Harris.

Uh the planning commission to appoint Nina Morjani to represent district 10.

Uh the public library board to appoint a high school student member Kai O'Neal.

Uh the C the TITA citizens advisory committee to appoint high school student members Kylie Smith and Kaden Ismmail and the Virginia Beach Cannabis Advisory Task Force to appoint Travis Chick representing the citizen member. Move for approval.

Okay.

Second.

Second. Okay. Let's open a vote on that.

The vote is open.

By a vote of 11 to zero. You have wanted those as read by Vice Mayor Wilson.

Okay. Thank you. Okay, folks. Any unfinished business? Any new business?

Thank you all. We are journing. Thank you all for coming.