City Council Meeting, 7/14/2026

call this meeting to order.

Okay, Mr. Dane.

Yeah, but I have to make the announcement on the closed caption first. Uh before we get started, I'd like to let everyone know that the captioning in the room is currently unavailable. If anyone needs captioning, it is available on Facebook or by downloading the BB Now app and you can see the clerk Amanda Barnes.

Thank you. [snorts] So, Mr. Mayor, members of council, the first briefing will be given by deputy city manager Monica Kroski. She'll brief the council and the public on an update regarding our focus action plan.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, madame vice mayor, city manager. Uh every two year city council comes together and you have discussions, you work with a facilitator and you talk about your priorities. Um you get feedback from the community.

Well, you do that year round, but we also do some specific engagement with the community around your uh strategy plan and uh semiannually we do a public report to give you progress update. Um I always like to talk about the intentionality behind this plan. I think governments get criticized a lot about doing a lot of plans and they sit on shelves. Uh that's the opposite of what this focus action plan is. Heavy

emphasis on the word action. Um every single month the deputy city managers, assistant city managers and I we meet with all of the departments to talk about the progress, the initiatives in the plan quarterly. We then get before our city manager and we give him updates on our progress. asks us questions.

Every single department that reports to the city manager has a departmental performance plan and some of their initiatives tied to your focus action plan. And just about every Thursday, the city manager is meeting with departments to go over their progress. So, there's a lot of intentionality built in uh to make sure that we make movement on what your priorities are.

Um, in this particular focus action plan, there are 45 initiatives. Um, I will not go over all 45. I'll just do a sampling and next month, early September, we will have the official year-end report for fiscal year 26 that will go over every single initiative within the plan.

Uh there are three focus areas in this strategic plan, focus action plan, people, places, partnerships. People really is about centering the residents voices. um making sure that the services we provide, how we provide them are rooted in their feedback. It's also about taking care of the people who serve our community. So, emphasis on public safety, which is the foundation of any um communities and people. Places

really acknowledges that we need to have places for people to work, uh places for people to live, and places for people to play. So things like Rudy Park, BB Trail, um economic development are in places. And then finally, partnerships is recognizing that as government, it doesn't make sense for us to do it alone. Uh there makes uh there are times when it makes sense to leverage community partners to advance an

initiative. Uh so the partnerships um key focus area is all about how can we leverage community assets to advance priorities. So let's get started with some highlights. Uh first up is a people initiative, public safety. Um you all have been investing pretty um heavily in EMS. It's a time when people need us most. They are probably at their dire uh hour and making sure that we are

positioned to help them is of importance to you all. Um you all invested in 24 new positions back in November. Um and uh assistant city manager Straoud and his staff were able to hire 24. And in addition to hiring uh those 24 FTEES, he also implemented a a staffing model 2472.

And what that is is you work 24 hours and then you have 72 hours off. And what that does is that offers a work life balance for the employee. Um helps with burnout. What it does for us as the employer is it provides a stable foundation for scheduling. Um, so you will know that you have a 24-h hour period that's covered for the ambulances. And then for those career employees who still choose to operate on

a 12-hour shift, it's easier to stack it. And the fruits of that is in this graph. Uh the blue, well, the graph represents um a quarter average staffing of the ambulances by hour. And what you'll see is the orange is the fiscal year after we went to 24772 the quarter um the first quarter of fiscal year 26 and the blue is FY25 before and you can see every single hour we have a higher staffing of ambulances.

So we're moving in the right direction.

Um and that's that's an important uh we're grow we're a large city. We're a tourist city. So making sure that we have ambulances staffed is a high priority. Um, assistant city manager Stra wanted me to say we're moving in the right direction. There's still opportunities for improvement and uh we'll continue to seek those opportunities. Uh, but really wanted to publicly thank council for your

investments as that graph shows they're paying off.

Um, the next area and people is it's an interesting one. When we look at the community survey, our residents say that they are satisfied with the services that they get. Um when we benchmark uh the satisfaction for the value of the taxes paid, we are higher than the national average. We are higher than the regional a. But in that same survey, when you ask them what are your um top

priorities, the cost of government is one of their top priorities, one of their top concerns. So they're satisfied with the services that they get, but they also want us to pay attention to the cost of of government. Um, so in your focus action plan, you had an initiative about working with the process improvement steering committee.

Uh, the process improvement city commit steering committee worked with city staff to really look at opportunities um for cost savings and cost reductions.

And they came up with over $20 million worth of potential cost reductions. and you all accepted some of those recommendations in your FY27 budget. Um, moving forward, the process improvement steering committee, um, they're evaluating how can we keep this type of exercise going, not just looking at dollars saved, but opportunities for optimizing services and our service delivery. Um, so keeping the high

expectations that our residents and our community have grown to love, but just making sure we're doing that in the most costeffective way. So that might be repurposing existing positions to meet new priorities. Um that might be looking at how AI can help us deliver services.

Um so PISK in the year ahead will be working with staff on how do we keep this going.

Another area that's in your focus action plan deals with the community survey itself. Um we've done it with ETC for two years. um two data points is not yet a trend, but we still have valuable data. This is the random sample statistically significant survey. So, making sure we're using that survey um and it's not just data sitting on a shelf. So, what we've been doing is segmenting the data by different

demographic um groups to see if folks have different perceptions based on age, based on where they live, gender, all sorts of ways we're slicing and dicing this information. and then going back to the community and trying to get more information. It's only so much that a survey can give you. Uh so making sure we're following up with conversations to dig deeper um to get a good sense of how our community is feeling.

So that's what we're doing. We're leveraging the results to do just that.

Um, one of the neat things is council member Beluchcci held a district 3 summit and that gave us additional insight and something that came from that summit we heard as part of the ambassadors program and which we did in a couple of districts that historically have engaged with us at lower levels and something that we got from the district 3 summit and the ambassadors pilot program is that folks appreciate when we

have meetings uh specifically for government topics. But one of the themes that keep coming up is that they want us to meet them where they are. They want us to meet them where they're doing everyday life. Uh so we're taking that to heart and one of the places we know that people are going is parks after dark. Um the parks and recreation department has it's been a huge success nearly uh 24,000 people last year. So

what we've been doing is we've been segmenting the c the resident survey data coming up with themes and questions that we want to follow up more on and OPA staff budget staff comm staff um have been at parks of dark parks after dark and they've come up with this toss and tail game of where you get the children to come up with their parents or sometimes the teenagers or the parents themselves. They toss

this ring across this game and then we have these questions in a bowl that tie back to the resident survey and we're asking them things about neighborhood pride, about how they feel about our services and staff is jotting down their feedback. So, it's a way to engage the community in the community without requiring the community to come to city hall or to come to an hour and a half

meeting. We're meeting them where they are. Uh we plan to replicate this at other places whether it's the farmers market whether there's other events but trying to take that information we got from the district 3 summit and the ambassadors pilot program and meet the feedback and meet the community where they are so we it can be easier for them to give us feedback and to engage with us. Um it's been a huge success. Um

folks have been giving positive feedback to the folks who are staffing the station at Parks After Dark that they really like that concept. So we'll definitely be replicating it.

Uh parks after dark is a program or initiative in your focus action plan. Um there's an init an initiative about formally evaluating it um so that we can get some um intentional assessments about how is it how is it doing? What's the impact that it's making? Uh so parks and wreck and OPA are currently working with each other to come up with an outline about how we will assess it. Um

they're looking at what LA did with their um Saturday Night Lights. I forget the name of their program. Um New York to see what are some of the metrics that they used because we know it's both qualitative and quantitative. So looking at crime prevention and crime data to see if it's making an impact, but also some of those qualitative aspects of people being able to interact with law enforcement in a low stress um

non-threatening environment. research shows that those types of interactions have positive uh benefits. Uh so we'll be bringing to you at some point a formal evaluation of parks after dark.

Um, another initiative in your plan when you all kicked off the development of your focus action plan, uh, you heard a presentation from Michael Evans, um, and he talked really about demography, population, and migration data, and really talked about um, age groups that were leaving, age groups that were coming. And we also have a mission statement for the city that talks about

being a community for a lifetime. Um, so during your retreat you talked about making sure that folks have the supports that they need so that they can make Virginia Beach a community of a lifetime. Um, Tiffany Russell and communications took this initiative and ran with it. Um, launched a campaign that we're calling ages and stages and what it's about is really making people aware of programs, resources, events

that we have based on their needs. Um, so came up with categories like teens and seniors, caregivers, and folks can filter. It's a website on our web page now, and you can filter if you're looking for something for teens. If you're a senior and you're looking for resources or maybe a program, um, and Tiffany worked with all the departments, libraries, and parks, so that we could

get a good handle on what those programs are. And, um, it's one of those things of sometimes you don't have to create something new. you have to make sure you're communicating it in an effective way. Um, and this is a perfect example of that. So, ages and stages, you can sign up for alerts if you want to get alerts on things for the teen category or senior category. Um, that's available to you. Now,

apprenticeships. This council has been talking about apprenticeships uh for a couple of years. I think Mr. Mayor, you went to Germany with a um maybe the chamber and Germany just puts a lot of focus on apprenticeships. Um, an aside, but a related aside, when we did the youth violence prevention task force, madame vice mayor, you might remember when we interviewed some of the youth that were in jail, we heard examples

about them saying, you know, I was horrible in math and science, but I love shop class, but when I got in trouble or because I wasn't doing well in math, I was no longer allowed to go to the shop.

Um, so I just dropped out. So two weeks ago when we were having the task force meeting, we learned that Renaissance based on that feedback now has their trade shop at Renaissance Academy. So we know that apprenticeships aren't just good for us as employers. There are ways to enrich individual lives who need them. Not everyone needs to go to college. Um but the economy needs trades. I don't know if you've tried to

get a plumber or HVAC person lately. Um but it's an area that's very much needed. uh assistant city manager Straoud, want to definitely thank him.

He saw he saw the need for this too and he worked with human resources and we are repurposing a position to focus on apprenticeships because what we've learned is that you need someone whose job it is to focus on developing these programs. So, we're going to be working with um Virginia Beach City Public Schools, TCC, and some other trade programs because we have hundreds of buildings. We need plumbers. We need

carpenters. we need electricians. So, let's work with these partners so that we can create pathways to jobs with the city. Um, and it can be a win-win for us as well as the individuals. Uh, this past summer, we created a new um intern title with skilled trade interns and um HR was telling me that we have 14 who've been working with traffic, with operations, with facilities. So, just

making sure that we're fulfilling our own needs as well as the community needs. um because trades is an area where we need to be grooming the next generation for sure. So, lots of good positive movement on something that's been on your radar for quite some time.

Attainable workforce housing. I spoke with Ruthie yesterday and there's lots of good news for the next two slides, so she wanted me to make sure I took my time and um really shared those good news. Um, housing has been a top priority for council for quite some time. Um, in April of last year, you all really took uh a step in making some action towards what can we do to create more production in attainable housing.

So, you all supported the attainable workforce housing performance grant, uh, which is a great program because it's not necessarily us general fund money for it. Um it's when folks make a development um because they've improved the land, it creates more tax revenue.

Um they add these attainable units to it and over a certain period they can get um a grant towards that incremental tax tax improvement um because of the development and you see the associated units with that. Those are significant.

Um, as part of Michael's Evans presentation to council, he talked about the number of housing units we needed.

Um, so a program such as this, um, is really moving the needle. Uh, the graph is also great news. The blues are market market rate and the greens are attainable affordable housing units. Um, you can see what's in production, what's been completed, what's in the pipeline.

Um, we have more in the market rate. um production, but we have had some success um with the affordable rates. And as you remember, Michael was explaining, units overall is what we need. We need to pay attention to affordable and attainable units, but the more units we have, the better it is for the health of the housing market. So, this graph really shows um we have quite a bit in the

pipeline. Several have been completed um and we're moving in the the right direction on one of council's um top priorities. So kudos to council uh for the support that you all given the um professional staff and being able to put a program out that's really creating some movement for us.

Also really good news on this slide uh the point in time count which counts uh our neighbors who are experiencing housing instability. Uh you'll see we had 325 who were experiencing homelessness. Um what's important that Ruthie wanted me to share is you see that increase from 2024 to 2025.

She wanted it to be explained um that you all will remember you supported investment. We did a mini renovation at the human resource the housing resource center to add additional beds. So because we added that capacity we were able to house more of our um neighbors who are experiencing um housing insecurity. She also wanted to me to point out the 45 who are unsheltered.

These are people who are not couch surfing. They're not in a shelter. These are our neighbors who are sleeping on the streets. We only have 45 in 2026, which reflects a 18% decrease. So those are our most vulnerable neighbors who have no place to live. We've seen an 18% decrease. Um, something else that she wanted me to point out is the 53% um, last year 53% of those who were sheltered with us went into permanent

housing, not transitional housing, but their own permanent housing. And Ruthie was explaining when you compare that to the benchmark, that's just phenomenal.

Um, that folks are going from a shelter to their own permanent housing. Um, so that's something to really be celebrated.

business retention and support, economic development. A lot of times there's a lot of flash about new businesses and who they recruit. The economic development department spends a lot of time of making sure we're touching base with those businesses who have already chosen us, who've already chosen to invest in our community, give our neighbors jobs. Um, and you can see that they did quite a few business visits to

check in with those folks to see how can we support you, what are your needs? Uh the hive continues to be just a really uh phenomenal asset to our community of building that business community um making connections and networks with over 400 workshops last year. Um so those are just quick highlights where there's public safety, housing, economic development, we're making good progress

on council's priorities. Um, I tried to be intentional about naming the names and the departments because it's truly a cross-dep departmental plan. Uh, the priorities that you all have are multidisciplinary.

They can't be done in a silo. The community doesn't care about which department. They just want the goals to be advanced. And um under the city manager's leadership um I think we we're doing a great job of tearing down those sl silos rallying around the goal who has an asset who has talents to bring to the table whether it's assistant city manager Straoud repurposing one of the positions in his portfolio. Um whether

it's communications working with the department to look at how we communicate something differently.

um bringing all of the assets that we have that to this of the city to the table to make sure that we advance the priorities of this council. Um like I said, next month, early September, we'll have the year-end performance report that we always share on the website that will go over every single initiative and provide progress on how we're doing on those initiatives. Um so with that, Mr.

Mayor, I'm happy to take any questions.

Um, but more than anything just wanted to not that you all ever doubt, but just reassure you that we the focus action plan does not sit on a shelf. There's tons of intentional action behind making sure that we um advance you all's priorities.

Monica, you are a D-Day mover and a shaker and we definitely thank you. You were involved in so many things. Um, you know, a recent example of the interaction is the task force for safer Virginia Beach. And can you go over the three public encounters that you're going to be having with Delino Mile?

Sure.

I think that's a stling example of, you know, what we're doing.

And I think what's been interesting is that we're not starting from ground zero. Um, some of the things that we talked about in the youth violence prevention task force are coming up. And I don't know if most folks know Parks After Dark was born from that. So I know the task force wants folks to know that action will recommended actions, things that you all can act on will come from

their work. But I want to make sure I get the dates right. Um again, it's one where we want to make sure the work is rooted in the community's voice. So the task force will have six uh public meetings, but we're doing these listening sessions. Um, they're grouped in categories. Businesses and oceanfront uh businesses, uh, the public, general public, uh, civil rights organizations

and faith-based organizations. And we're holding them on Tuesday, July 28th, Wednesday, June July 29th, and Thursday, July 30th. Um, the website is safer safer VB. If you go to our website and you type in safer VB, it'll pull up the dates, the times, and the locations. Um, but we're having them throughout the city, Bayside, the central library, uh, ones at CVB. But again, trying to make

sure we leave the walls of city hall and meet, uh, the community where community life happens. Um, and we want to hear from the community. We want to we want to hear their thoughts on what's needed, what kind of community supports, what kind of public safety supports. We know it can't all be government. Um, we will also do a survey of some kind, Mr.

Mayor. Um, because we know not everyone can come out and participate. Um, so we're going to try to replicate whatever the questions are for the listening sessions, put it on the website so that folks can chime in um that way and we can get their their feedback. But really looking forward to what comes what comes of that.

And if I can also say, you know, when we talk about the housing situation, that is a national crisis. This is not unique to Virginia Beach or the Commonwealth.

This is happening everywhere. Whether it be inflation, regulatory, things of that nature, but you know, I can say that, you know, since I've been on city council in 2004, Rosemary and I back then were on a group called Empower Hampton Roads, and we actually went on a field trip up to Mlan and to see the interactions they were taking. And but once again the housing is a really critical thing and uh being involved

with the military advocacy group uh two years ago we went to the Pentagon and every and we work with every branch between here and Fort Houston Langley every under secretary or assistant secretary defense for all branches said that housing was critical for national security in terms of recruitment. and retention and then they throw in daycare too.

And you know once again how even locally throughout Hampton Roads here and uh you know they just had came up in Newport News where the chief of naval operations doesn't want sailors living on uh the ships while they're being fitted. They have to get them into the community. So, but once again it's a matter of also attainable housing is critical you know for our you know whether workforce you

know whether it be teachers public safety anybody uh to make sure that they can achieve that dream and you we're going to go through some hoops doing it but but I think that's uh really good and also um on the apprentice program a number of mayors went on that trip and I remember speaking to a young lady and she was learning to be a carpenter, but she was a teacher and said, you know, it

really didn't float my boat. And then now she was in a carpentry program. And then once again, even with our hope pipeline, uh, you know, what we're helping our people excel, getting youth into trades is a path that can only achieve good. But, but once again, I tell you what, stellar work by you and everybody. Anybody else on it? Michael and then Stacy.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, M. Krosky, I want to thank you for your presentation and just share that your professional [snorts] practice and I think vast and deep expertise really shine through in this presentation and so many of the other um, aspects of your work.

So, thank you for your many contributions, including this. Um, I I want to just call out a little bit about the District 3 community summit that occurred and and of course thank you for your vision and and expertise and helping us formulate that and and I hope that model would at least be considered for other districts because it was an amazing way to engage with our neighbors and learn actually what's

important to the people. not not just learn but affirm actually what's important to the people we serve. And it's interesting I don't know what slide that was but it came through that question or slide seven.

The most popular question that came out of that was and that simulated the most connection and the most dialogue is what is your favorite business close to your home and why? And what that tells me is again what you said is that people wish to be met where they are in that um it's it's also an affirmation of the vibrancy that exists within the communities we serve and that sometimes we talk about

these you know big and bold policy agendas and and issues that we contemplate and those are really important. Um, [clears throat] but what really came through in that conversation is that people are very very connected to what's happening close to their home and they're connected in a way that um is organic and natural and and really strong and that we have a incredible small business community and

innovation and um excellence that's being um obtained all throughout the city. And uh it was a really exciting conversation and it was really fun to be part of and I have a whole list of new businesses.

I was going to say the manager uh council member Beluchcci when he was reviewing the report he was like oh yeah I like that one too. Someone has good taste. I I can't remember the business and we probably don't want to call him out. Um but I think that was the manager's favorite question too. Mr.

council members was mine and and I got to share some of my favorites and um it was a true evening of connection for for myself and for my neighbors and I really want to thank you for that and and I do hope that other districts will consider utilizing some form of that that that works for for your districts because it was a great way to uh sort of glean what's what's happening and and

what people in our neighborhood communities are are really thinking about and prioritizing. So, I I thank you for that in terms of my personal service to the community, but also making the connection to to [clears throat] this plan and um and thank you for all your work here. I look forward to continuing to collaborate.

Thank you, Stacey. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to follow up on a few things that the uh mayor talked on, but one of first is about the uh trades, the apprentice programs, and at priority. We when I was there, we realized that we had a desperate need for auto technicians and there just weren't any in the pipeline. There's nobody was training. No, people did not want to get into the trades. and [snorts] we

partnered with the Norfick Sheriff's Department and Tidewater Community College, developed a program where uh we could train 16 technicians at a time to uh it it was a year-long program working in conjunction with the Norfk Sheriff's Department. And at the end of that year, each of these 16 had all the certifications they needed to start as a technician uh with us. and they were all

guaranteed jobs and highly successful program. And that's, you know, so it's not only the young people that are getting out of high school or maybe in high school, but there are other places you the are, you know, our jails are a great source of people because if they come out of jail and they have no job, you know, they really have no choice but to go back to their old way of life. if

they come out and they have a trade and they have the ability to get a good paying job, the recidivism is, you know, next to nothing.

That's evidence based research says that's number one deterrent for recidivism is stable employment.

So I I just think there are other uh other other um uh right fields out there of people that we can steer towards the trades.

The other thing I want to talk about is housing. You know that um people Every time there's another housing unit built in the city, it frees up people to move into if they're living with their parents or if they're living in a group home. Uh my my son is 25 and he lives in a home with three other roommates and they all put their name on their food in the refrigerator and you know they had

their schedules for the laundry and none of them want to live like that for long term. But, you know, the the ability to move out of that situation is limited because um all of our housing is full.

We just don't have any. So, every time we open up a housing, whether it's a you know, million-dollar house in a neighborhood or whether it's a attainable workforce um housing unit, it frees that up for that next level of people to move in. So, you have people moving out of apartments, moving into a single family home. Maybe the, you know, when you ask people in a single, the retirees and the elderly, you know, why

don't you give up this big house and and downsize and and um make your life easier and they say, I can't afford to do that. Where am I going to go? So, when we open up those kind of things, it just it it lifts everybody up. It creates opportunities for everyone. So, you know, we just need to keep um making that housing a priority because it, as the mayor said, it's a crisis, a

national crisis, a statewide crisis. The the state legislature did a number of things this year to uh try to free up or create more housing in in the state and and here at the city level. We need to continue to make that a high priority because it not only affects u people uh at at every income level at every strata looking for opportunities but it also you know our assessments people are

complaining about the assessments going up year after year after year and they are and that's not sustainable that we're what we're doing but by create it's a supply and demand by creating more supply uh demand's not demand's not going to go away we need to create more supply so every time create more supply is going to lessen that burden on the overall population. And then the last

thing I want to touch on is this uh the attainable workforce housing program.

Such an incredible program and it, you know, some people just want to uh nay it and say that it's just giving money back to the developers. It's not. This is a program that makes um that gives an incentive to build these houses because um to build to build a house or to build a u a high high level unit that's fine.

We could do that but that's not addressing the problem. We need to address getting people into uh you know at our at every economic level into a house and our school teachers, our police, our firefighters, you know that that are locked out of the city and they're going to Chesapeake or or North Carolina, you know, every time one of those people moves back into Virginia Beach or every time we keep them here,

that's a win for the city because if they leave the city to live somewhere else, they're going to see opportunities elsewhere and it's going to be easier for them to to work where they live. And we need to make that here. We need to keep our teachers, our nurses, and our firefighters and our police department and, you know, all the all of the um professionals that work here at the uh

municipal center, they need to stay here. They need to live in Virginia Beach. And this attainable workforce housing, it's it's been a tremendous success. And on average, if you do the math, break it down, it's going to cost the city in but four taxes about $100 a unit a month.

The city has no liability, no insurance, no maintenance, no upkeep. You know, the units are going to be maintained. And in at the end of 15 years, if they want to reenroll in the program, they got to reinvest in those properties. It's a tremendous program at very little cost, you know, to the city. When you talk about $100 a month for for a unit, [clears throat] that is a heck of a lot

cheaper than a section 8 housing project, you know, that are being built elsewhere around the region. So, this is a great program that we need to keep encouraging and keep getting people signed up for.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you again uh Monica for this report. It is important an example. I just had a community day meeting on the 9th and we [clears throat] had including examples we had the uh Virginia Beach Community Development Corporation. A lot of them did not know what that was and how it worked and they even gave an example high in Cypress Point where it was a bunch of homes that people whoever

the developer just couldn't keep up with that. So they were able to buy those homes and put it at a reduced rate. you know, very nice homes for people to have that opportunity. The bottom line that you have here is neighborhood pride connection. That is very important.

People were there. They were listening trying to understand the differences between the attainable, the affordable, and what this grant meant. So to them, they felt the city cared and we had a nice, you know, response from people.

The other thing that you're mentioning with the pride is also how secure our area was. So we had the police come in, call us, captains, and explain, you know, what steps are taken, how little things like leaving your car open at night that they now have this little card and pass out to say, "Um, by the way, we're able to get into your car." It's a warning. It's not you know a ticket but

what we are going is over and above and we thank you for being there. I see you over at the high again showing that representation that the city cares. So all of this and very important that people need to understand surveys research these are important tools that gave us the evidence base.

It is not we just want to do a referendum or surveys or what but we need that to give us what you're showing us today. So thank you so much for this presentation.

Thank you.

District 4. Thanks you Rosemary.

I'm going be really brief. But Monica, it's another stellar job that you've done. You've always come through. It's a wonderful report and I think it's really important for people to know all these there's a lot of little things that little things all add up to be big things and to let the positive things that are happening in this city that's really keeping us that's why I guess Forbes magazine said we have the best

quality of life here and I'm I'm really looking forward to finding out what the results are going to be from Parks After Dark because I think we've been getting really feeling good about it, but then we actually get the data now that it's been in in progress for now several years, it it it will be time to evaluate it and and I can't help but believe it's really helped a lot of young people and

the different stories that I've heard where uh these young people are becoming more engaged and and some of them actually want to work for the city and they come and they they see the great things that are happening. So, uh, thank you for another wonderful report and I guess we look forward to the big report coming up.

It's coming and it's definitely a group team effort. It's a cross city effort.

So many departments contribute. I get to be the face of it. Um, but it's it's truly all hands on deck to advance this this work. So, thank you all very much.

Anybody else? You know, let me conclude by saying Rosemary touched on something something qual quality of life. And you know, the one thing this council is dedicated to is to make sure that we have, you know, the quality of life and quality of life draws companies to come here because you better believe when an industry wants to come here. And we're proud of the fact that over the last

number of years, the defense industry is finding home right here in Virginia Beach. We have over 70 major defense contractors. And uh the other thing is to uh let me put it this way with the military. I once had ad Admiral Codle who's chief of naval operations now introduced me to the common of the Marine Corps and he he just bragged about the quality of life in Virginia Beach and he told that Virginia Beach

was the most requested duty station by members of the Navy and that's a big deal because once again even our Navy when they retire they stay here. I think we have seven or nine former commanding officers of Oceanana that still live in Virginia Beach.

And so once again, as we balance everything, you know, with housing and the challenges with infrastructure and uh storm water regulations and things like that, we can never forget about quality of life. And I think that's exactly what you're doing. Thank you.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Okay.

So, Mr. The mayor, members of council, the next briefing will be provided by Emmy Archer, acting economic development director. It'll be a briefing on the historic Chemsville quadrant, and the request would be for city council to authorize us to issue an RFP to seek proposals to develop that area.

Welcome.

Good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor, members of council. Thank you for having me. As the managers mentioned, we're here to background give you a background and overview of historic Kempsville Northeast Quadrant. That's the yellow star on the image on the right at the intersection of Witchduck Road and Princess Anne Road. [snorts] Uh we're going to review some potential RFP criteria, what that could look like,

um and share some community feedback I've received to date and then seek your direction on next steps.

For two decades, the city has been has worked to preserve the historic significance of Chemville of this area through purposeful placemaking efforts and strategic acquisitions.

um starting with the adoption of the 2006 historic chemical area master plan um and then amended in 2014. The image on the right is the master plan from that 2014 document um that was amended in 2014. Quickly following that, some major roadway improvements were completed on Witchduck Road in 2015 and an RFP was first issued for this land uh in 2015 for mixeduse development as envisioned in this master plan. Uh that

uh RFP did not come to fruition due to complications with property assemblage at the time, but that property assembl assemblage has been ongoing for the past decade.

Um and meanwhile there has been significant uh redevelopment on the northwest and southwest west quadrants over the past decade with commercial and residential developments that have come to fruition. Um I want to clearly state that no unsolicited proposals have been received for this northeast quadrant in recent years.

So current use it's um all the city land is shown in yellow on the right. Um there is one use the existing Virginia Beach Fire Station 9 outlined in red.

There's also a lease to the Roar 10 Club uh on that parcel. Fire Station 9 is about 43 years old, typical midlife um renovation point. It has on undergone routine maintenance and is slated for ongoing capital reinvestment through the city's capital improvement program.

But what is unoccupied and available for development at this time is about 10.6 acres. kind of shown in the brighter area on the right. Um there is a still p one or two privately owned parcels outlined in that center dash yellow area. An existing car lot is still uh present there. There's a mixture of B4K 24 to 4K and B2 zoning on this quadrant and it's all within the historic Chemville Overlay district. Um there's

also it's all city owned but there is one VBDA parcel. It's kind of a mixture.

Uh, and that private owner that I mentioned, the city has been demolishing the buildings as they've acquired them.

The white topped roof within there has been demolished and the remaining kind of brown roof structure is to be demolished in the next year. This is in council district 3.

Excuse me. Um, these are the existing conditions. It's very much vacant land uh except for that one privately owned business operating in the center. Um there is a new uh sculpture Harbor of Stories that was installed this spring by the um completed by the Washington Glass Studio on Witchduck Road.

I met with the historic Keville Citizens Advisory Committee the CAC in March of this year and had a good discussion with them about uh if an RFP should be issued and how they felt about that. Um after some good discussion they did mention they did feel the the majority did feel that an RFP should be issues issued even if we didn't own everything at this present time. I asked them about

uses they would want to see and not want to see. What really came out is they just didn't want a single use. They wanted a mixture of uses to go there. It was less about um you know one use over another. Um, so just if like a residential use only came in that would not be wellreceived. Uh, following that I asked if there was a housing component to it, how important was it for them

that it be attainably priced? And I used a 80% AMI air area median income, which equates to about $1,900 per month for rent or mortgage for a twoerson household. And the large majority, one of the largest majorities from this group felt that that should be included if developed here.

Um I kind of pulled them on what was most important to them. Kind of the number one over the all was that it respect the scale and historic character of Kempsville area developed here and it provides safe inviting and walkable internal circulation to the development.

Um and they just wanted opportunities to provide input once if something selected and proposed here. Um storm water, parking, traffic were were also concerns but not as much as those top three I just mentioned.

So, if an RFP uh was to be issued, here are some potential criteria based on what we've heard to date, what we know about the site. It could be open for 60 to 90 days. Uh we would put some phrasing in there that we're seeking a walkable mixeduse development. Um that it must meet the historic council architectural guidelines, be compatible with surrounding land uses, and meet the

B4K zoning that was established for this area specifically.

um any housing that is proposed, we would ask that some be attain have some attainably priced options at or below that 80% AMI. Um and then as we do in most of our RFPs, we ask for a concept plan, purchase price offered, timeline for execution, and any request for city assistance be clearly stated.

So for your consideration this afternoon, um we can [clears throat] issue an RFP. We can postpone until all the land can be acquired or further study conducted or other as directed.

Okay, Michael.

Thank you. U Thank you, Emily. Mhm.

And you and your colleagues have done an exceptional job on this uh question for us and in my view and and I and I'm I'm very confident that this view is shared by those interested um parties including surrounding neighborhoods and those invested in the historic Chemville Citizens Advisory Committee, which I'm going to talk about in a second. um are in agreement that we should move forward and issue an RFP.

Uh the time has come uh to do that. Of course, as you noted, this particular property is located in district 3, but it's also directly adjacent to uh district 1 and also in close proximity to district 4. Um, it's a really important and actually beautiful and um, historic and cultural um, neighborhood and area of our city.

And this visioning has been guided by the historic Kempsville Citizens Advisory Committee, which is comprised of business folks, people who live in the surrounding neighborhoods, um faith leaders, representatives from our schools, public safety. It's an amazing group of people, u planning, uh planning, uh me commission members, and I could go on. I mean, it's an incredible group. It's one of the most effective and um

uh collaborative and positive civic organizations that I've ever had the the privilege to work with. Um and many of them are here today. So, I just want to acknowledge them and and thank them for their many of them are here today. Wow.

It's really a fan club, Michael.

I don't know. I don't know about all that.

Um, but I do know that the people who are here have been working on this for a really really long time and they are invested in in every way imaginable and ensuring that this really important and historic and cultural district in the city um is [clears throat] uh moves forward into the future in a way that serves our community. But what what we know is that this quadrant is the last quadrant in this intersection

to move forward with development. So you have beautiful park just directly to the south. You have the new shopping center which is actually quite beautiful and and is um in adherence to the historic guidelines that were established by the committee just across the street. And then you have the um historic Kempsville High School and the um housing that was established directly adjacent. There's

also Harbor Storage as you mentioned which is an amazing public uh art project that was led by our cultural affairs department in partnership with the Washington Glass School. That could be a whole presentation on its own about how remarkable and interactive and um comprehensive collaborative that project was.

These parcels were were beginning as as I can understand have have been assembled for for decades using um public resources and for the public benefit. And this intersection, everyone knows, anyone who lives near or or traverses through that area knows that that in particular this quadrant, this corner has been sitting essentially vacant for a really long time. And it's unfortunate that the city doesn't have

control over the last site as part of the assemblage, but um I think that I represent the I know that I represent the majority of folks involved in these discussions for a long time when when I say that we're interested in finding out what the market would bring forward even without control of that final site and that this site should be returned to the tax roles. it should be used for the

public good which that's the intent that the parcels were assembled and um we should see what the what the market brings forward. Having said all that, we're asking that the market bring something forward that's in cohesion and in concert with the um visioning that's occurred and that's been particularly led by the historic chemical group which is as I said it's not just a it's not

just a committee. This is a committee that has um that has connections to civic leagues and and every aspect of the of the surrounding community and it's it's a really amazing group of individuals and professionals and people who care and about our city and love it very much and are invested in the future. So, um I also want to take a moment if I could to um just acknowledge the work that council member Ross

Hammond has done in this area. Um I know Vice Mayor Wilson has done specifically been invested in this area.

Council member Abbott um and and others too in their council responsibilities have. So there's been many hands and it's my privilege to have the opportunity to um have this corner as part of district 3 and um and I think we're ready to move forward with the RFP and that will be my request to council.

Excellent. Let's go and thank you mayor. Thank you, Miss Archer, for the presentation and the time of yours and the staff. And I just want to speak about the process here going forward because I think the strategic pause that was taken because of the assemblage has allowed uh us to do the assemblage but also I know it's been vacant and some people might say an eyesore but at the same

time we can get this right uh as a city and I'm glad for the input because when we do have the input of the local citizens here especially historic uh group here that's really important because going forward the RFP P develop de developers can listen [snorts] to that. So all that being said, um would we should we go forward with an RFP? Are we do we give folks all the data the

information like a survey like where utilities are? Um I guess with zoning would come forth after their proposal.

Um is there environmental survey ESA? Is there wetlands delineation?

all that will that be a part of that because for a response in even 90 days for something of this importance I think that's a little short in in my opinion to get all your ducks in a row all your design all your pricing after learning all the information it's going to take time and I would say I would air on the side of caution or timeliness and not be know that quick to request for a

proposal.

Yes sir. I mean, we could easily go to 120 days. Um, as we've been acquiring parcels, we always get a phase one essay. So, we've been we can collect those and all the information that we have during that assemblage process for any potential respondents to have that [clears throat] available to them.

I would just say for maybe even 120, 150 days because it takes a while and developers have to spend money hoping they'll get the the deal and the more they spend, the more chance they may get or might not get. So, it's not easy. Uh, and it's and then maybe use some even some u engagement with the folks there.

So, anyhow, that's my input.

Mia and then Stacy.

Thank you again. This is an important uh project. This possible took many years. We had wonderful people out there. And first, I would like those people to please stand so we can see those representing. They've become family to ME and besides that we have the historic part of the Filipina that whole area of the nurses, the doctors. So this is important and this is the time to move forward. There will

always be roadblocks here and there, but if we have the wherewith like what Councilman Palushi mention and we have all those people backing us, this is the time to move forward.

Thank you.

Thank you, Stacey. Just want to follow up on what uh Councilman Remick was saying and my recommendation would be that the city actually perform a survey on the property to identify utilities and things that may be an obstacle that and may prevent or inhibit uh a viable RFP from being put out. So, if the city could do some leg work, as Councilman Breick was saying, you know, doing a survey, identifying

some of the basic things that people would need to know in order to make an informed decision, I think that would help the process.

Yes, sir. Great idea.

Michael, just a couple things to add. Um I also want I didn't mention in the list of council member Hutcherson is co-leazison to the committee and although um this is in district three many of the committee members are district one residents and so I I I want to acknowledge his really meaningful contributions to this conversation as well. Um, also this is in addition to Filipino history, black history.

Yep.

There there's um Virginia Beach as we know has a history with the Menanite community. I mean there's there's a colonial [clears throat] and revolutionary and American history. The it's all American history, but American founding history that occurred there.

It's amazing what uh what what's happened in this part of our community and it's a very special property and I and I think the community wants to celebrate and enjoy it. Having said all that, moving forward with an RFP, especially one that prioritizes the goals and strategies and um and sort of standards and design guidelines that have been prioritized and elevated by the committee and others. um at the end

of the day doesn't mean that we have to select any of them if we don't think that they're the right fit for our community or for this area. So, it's worth knowing what comes forward. Um and I think we're all we all seem to be unified in that. So, I'm very grateful for it just as a point of clarification as it relates to the survey and I'm in full agreement with with that and as

well as Mr. Remick's uh recommendation about the timeline. Um, but if a survey occurs, how long would that take to complete before the RFP could be issued?

We could easily have that I think within 60 days.

Yeah.

So, we're looking at I'm just trying to do the math there at um October, September to return to release the RFP.

To release the RFP, yes, for the fall.

Well, the reason I say that is I I think we we need to move. I mean, we've been we've been trying to assemble properties. We've been waiting on responses. We've been I don't want I'm full I'm in full agreement and and um and I appreciate the suggestion and I have no objection to it. I want to make sure that we're holding to that timeline because time has slipped away from us on this

corner and uh I think the public is ready to enjoy this this quadrant moving forward. Stacy, one thing. It might be beneficial also to do have a phase one on the property that we don't own. We can get the property owner to cooperate with that.

We can try. Sure.

Okay. I think we have a direction. But boy, I really hearken back to yesterday year remembering when the pony baseball uh thing was there for a very very long time.

[clears throat] You know, this this is a very unique property and, you know, it really has a tremendous amount of history, especially coming, you know, from the Revolutionary War that was acknowledged that, you know, during 250, a lot of action going around here. But Michael, thank you and uh Hutch and you know, everybody that you know, you got a lot of adjacent districts around here,

but thank you for carrying the ball.

Really appreciate it.

Mr. Mr. Mayor, before we wrap up, so council is okay with us issuing an RFP, but want us to do some additional survey and Okay. All right. And the timeline 60 to 90 is good or do we go to 120?

Well, what do you what do you think? You try to get the preliminary work done in 90 and then 120. Michael, would that work for you?

I think we need to move a little faster than that.

Okay. I'm wondering we could if we want to we could we can move to 120 for the RFP and then we can start to do some of that additional work that we talked [snorts] about in that process. So do them concurrently.

We can.

Yeah, there you go.

That's an answer.

I just I think doing some work up front is going to accelerate the process and give us better quality products to look at by trying to rush this thing along. I some people are just not going to be able to even start until they know what's there. So I I just think that's I think it's [clears throat] time and money well spent the to get to an ultimate solution.

We go to 60 and 90.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay.

Fair compromise.

Mhm.

Okay. So we'll take 60 days to do some of that due diligence work and then around October we'll release an RFP and the world knows 90 days. So Yep. or anything.

Yeah. Mhm.

Thank you.

Okay. Great.

I love it when a plan comes together.

So, Mr. Mayor, members [clears throat] of council, this next presentation will be given by Levera Talentino, our purchasing agent.

The first presentation will be on our current disparity study and talk about the history and how we got here and where we are as it relates to the current disparity study. Following her briefing will be a presentation by Samir Ba with BBC Research and Consulting.

He'll give city council their his findings and recommendations as it relates to our most recent disparity study. And then following his briefing, Livera will come to close up to talk about recommendations and next steps.

All right. So go ahead Lever. The floor is yours.

La, welcome.

Thank you, Mayor Dyer. And good afternoon, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, city council members, Mr.

Duhaney and Mr. Styles.

Thank you for the opportunity to present the results and recommendations from the 2025 disparity study. Uh before we present those results, I would like to provide a background and a few highlights of the current SWAM procurement program uh which was established through the 2018 disparity study.

Uh the background and purpose of the disparity study was to provide insights uh of disparities or differences of the actual contract dollars spent with businesses in city contracting and the percentage of the available businesses that are willing and able to do business with the city. Uh the 2018 disparity study identified the underutilization in city contracting with businesses owned

by women, minorities, and service disabled veterans. From the 2018 study, there were 12 recommendations that were presented and implemented. Key areas of focus included city contracting aspirational goals which were adopted by this body. Uh creating a dedicated SWAM business office and increasing outreach and networking and that entailed bringing awareness to the newly formed SWAM procurement program uh to the

business community.

Prior to the 2018 disparity study, city council um adopted some resolutions and ordinances.

And that within that study, some of the accomplishments from your leadership over the years in support of creating opportunities for businesses owned by minorities, women, and service disabled veterans included you created the minority business council in 1995.

Uh, which was a first for the entire region. In addition, in 2007, you supported EC executive leadership in establishing an administrative directive related to purchasing from SWAM certified businesses. In 2008, city council had the desire to establish a 10% resolution in city contracting for minority owned businesses. And in 2012, uh you supported the implementation of the small business enhancement program

and the bond waiver program. And then in 2018, you approved the city's first disparity study. And I would like to point out that in 2020, the Commonwealth of Virginia established a minority business commission, which was created and modeled after your uh um minority business council. And several members of the minority business council served on the task force group uh in creating that commission.

In 2019, uh, city council, uh, approved a resolution to implement all of the 12 recommendations from the 2018 disparity study. Nine of those recommendations from the disparity study uh included things of nature updating the city's aspirational participation goals in city contracting uh establishing a dedicated SWAM business office. Improving data collection and annual growth monitoring programs.

Undertaking a local SWAM um certified program. increasing small business uh subcontracting opportunities and also implementation of project specific contract goals, unbundling large contracts and then also prompt payment.

And I will say with the prompt payment piece, most of the time our vendors get paid in process uh invoices are processed and payments are made within 30 days and the Virginia's prompt payment statute for local governments is 45. So we are doing the 30 days to get vendors paid.

In addition to those nine recommendations, city council had three recommendations of their own. Um and again that was improving the networking and outreach which this increased the visibility of our small business workshops and program. Uh we you also wanted to improve contracting opportunity notification which was done through our supplier portal in our new uh financial management system. And then

we also utilized the EVA which is the Virginia marketplace. And then the other the third one was the implementation of a small business set aside program which is also known as sheltered bidding.

And then just to give you a a quick look at how things have gone over the past years, uh, city council initiatives and established goals had a significant impact um, in minority and womenowned businesses participating in city contracts with uh, spend categories. If you look in fiscal year 1999, this was before the disparity study, you can see minority owned businesses had expenditures amounting to $2.26 million.

At this particular time, there was no goal for woman-owned businesses or service disabled veteranowned businesses. And this was when there was a 10% aspirational goal for minority owned business participation in city contracts. And then you look at post the 2018 disparity study and we look at fiscal year uh 2019 minority owned businesses um increased their spend by $18 million which

amounted to 20.8. That's in comparison to 1999. And then you look at womenowned businesses where uh their spend amounted to 28 million. Those two categories combined was 48.8 million um in 2019.

And then an aspirational goal was established for womenowned businesses with the 2018 study as well. Then as we look we fast forward to 2024 and we look at those expenditures in city contracting to minority owned businesses which amounted to $61.5 million. That's almost 50 $59 million increase from 1999.

And then womanowned businesses amounted to 59.1.

and a combined total for minority and womanowned businesses, $120 million.

We've come a long way.

Then we look prior to the uh 2018 study again as Virginia Beach has been a leader in the region in creating opportunities for small businesses uh specifically those businesses owned by women and minorities. The program approved and supported by city council has had a significant impact on the growth and development of businesses right here in Virginia Beach and the Hampton Roads area. With the

implementation of the recommendations from the 2018 study, the city exceeded the established aspirational goals for minority owned businesses and woman-owned businesses in fiscal years 2022, 2023, and 2024.

Uh, with that being said, we appreciate, bless you, we appreciate city council's continued support of the city's SWAM procurement programs. And with that, I will open it for any questions that you might have before I introduce um Mr.

Samir Ba who will do the give you the results.

Any questions at this point? Okay, Cash presentations and your professionalism.

Um this helps us gauge where we need to go and so thank you for uh this informative information.

Um, and so from this point, I think it'd be appropo to introduce uh your guest.

Absolutely.

Mr. Mayor, I think there's another question.

We got to let other people speak.

Oh, yeah. That's right. You guys, you next. You next.

I would just say that this is just a phenomenal report.

Thank you.

When we did the first disparity study, it was it was new. I mean we have really not thought of such a thing.

Yes ma'am.

And the fact that we were able to make those aspirational goals and and what we have achieved is just amazing because uh like I say when we when we did this to begin with that we were in a territory that we really weren't aware of that we had these disparities that people didn't know how to make the bids for city work and what you've been able to accomplish has just really been phenomenal. So, I

just want to congratulate you. This is a a really really great report.

Thank you very much.

Okay, we're going to go Jennifer and then Rosemary.

Thank you. Between your presentation and Mory Hill was here, I think for your the Chemville group, but he's also a part of the Clean Community Commission. I just have to shout out the leadership that's coming out of our Virginia Beach commission work. So, from the Clean Community Commission up to the Commonwealth of Virginia, we started the zero waste awareness. like it picked up

traction across the Commonwealth, but it started here with our local commission.

And then to see the leadership that the Minority Business Council is offering, not only our city, but the Commonwealth, I just want to applaud our local volunteers and our staff for elevating our city on these really important initiatives, and I hope that we continue to support them in that because it's really impressive uh the impact that we're having, not just in our own city, but all across Virginia.

Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you, Ro.

thinking back over the years and the trailblazers that went before where we started and the people that really got up there, rolled their sleeves and worked and pushed and and really got things started and some of them are not with us today and I wish they could be here to see the phenomenal advancements that have been made and where [clears throat] we are today. And it's just it's kind of I mean you look

at this you think oh well we've always been here where we weren't and we we really started at a very low point and because of all the work of the people who cared and got involved and and like Barbara said there were a lot of things we had to figure out of how to get to this point and it's really great and just kind of wanted to think back of the

people who helped us especially at the very beginning and thank you for such a wonderful report. Thank you, Amelia.

Thank you so much. We want to mention you've been one from the getgo working with this and that's important.

Just like um council member Wilson mentioned, someone not here with us anymore, but she is that wolf that's in there through the entire party. So, thank you again. We enjoy being part of as one of the council leaders along with [snorts] council member Rouse working with this and people wonder what does mean I mean words and for [clears throat] the women women are really leading. I was at an

event and someone was at church and she mentioned about she was from [snorts] South Carolina and she heard about our program here. Can we introduce her to the program because she has this business to do. She was from um somewhere along this trying to think of her country but somewhere near Dominican Republic.

Yes. He had come because she had this business high opportunity for me.

Awesome.

See, we are touching way beyond our Thank you.

Thank you, Patrick. And then Michael, [snorts] thank you. Um, thank you for the presentation and in addition to the comments that were shared previously, I just want to focus on the sort of the historical timeline that's presented here. Um because I think it needs to be said, you know, we're sitting now in 2026 and we're seeing a second iteration of the disparity study presented in

analyzing its findings. Um but we didn't just end up here. I think what's missing from this timeline, and I'm not faulting you for not including it, and I understand why you didn't. What's missing from this timeline is an accounting of the Virginia Beach citizens who stood up and insisted that a disparity study occur. And they were met with u from variety of stakeholders um at times contempt, at times um

resistance, at times a lack of understanding.

Um and they persevered.

And I know that there was a march down Atlantic Avenue. I'm not going to name those individual people because I don't want to leave someone out and and there are many, but those who are watching and those who are aware um know who they are. And fortunately though, the good news is that the city of Virginia Beach and I think even the um skeptics of the necessity for a disparity study have

come to understand and recognize that it was the right thing to do and it is an appropriate thing to do and that we have made improvements as a result. But I don't want this moment to go by without it being noted that we didn't just fall into place here. that there were people who stood up and insisted that this occur and they leveraged their personal reputations, their um professional

reputations and um and their networks to ensure that an accounting of this disparity was um was created for the city of Virginia Beach and [clears throat] that um the appropriate spons responses to that disparity as revealed um are advanced.

And I think those people deserve a lot of credit and um I know that anyway, so I'll just stop there, but I I I want to recognize their efforts and um extend my appreciation to them for recognizing a need and um ensuring that their city government moved in the direction that it needed to.

Thank you.

Okay, Parker. So, Mr. Mayor, remember there's two more parts to this presentation. So, the next presentation [clears throat and snorts] will be Mr.

Ba. He's going to give his presentation on the findings from the most recent disparity study and they're going to focus on a different GMA or regional area who's going to discuss that as well and following his findings is going to come back and talk about next steps and where we can go from there based on our recommendation from staff to the council. Let's move forward.

All right. So with that, I'll uh bring uh Mr. Samir Bawa up, PhD. He's a managing partner with BBC Research and Consulting. Um, and so his firm was selected through the RFP process to conduct the 2025 disparity study. So, Samir, I will turn it over to you.

You're welcome.

Yeah. Welcome, sir.

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me and giving me a little bit of time to talk about the 2025 City of Virginia Beach disparity study. Uh I do want to acknowledge a few people before jumping into a summary of the study itself. One um Miss Juliet Coconut from uh BBC. She's our project manager and uh managed the project um for well the 20 25 disparity study throughout its um uh

execution. Uh and then of course LA and her amazing team. Disparity studies are a huge lift, not just for the consultant, but we have to work hand inand with um the organizations that we're conducting the study for. And without um um a team, an internal team that's helping us out, these these things just don't get done. So, uh I just wanted to make sure I acknowledged Levier and her team as well.

So uh the presentation we developed today is meant to just briefly uh summarize key aspects of the disparity study including its core objectives some of the core analyses that we conducted as part of the study as well as recommendations and guidance that are driven by study results. So the core of the study was really uh simply to measure outcomes for uh minority and womanowned businesses as well as service

disabled veteranowned businesses in city contracting and procurement. And we do that um really at the core by assessing whether there are any differences or disparities between two measures. the participation of minority and women and service disabled veterans in city contracting and procurement over some study period uh compared to their estimated availability for that work.

And I'll unpack those terms in just a couple of minutes as I'm going through my slides. We also um assess conditions in the local marketplace to understand whether any barriers exist to make it more difficult or that make it more difficult for minorities, women and service disabled veterans to compete for well to establish businesses, grow their businesses and then ultimately compete

for and win uh project work with the city. And then as part of our study uh especially what we call the availability analysis, we collect a lot of information about characteristics that um businesses in the marketplace possess and how the city can use that information to tailor its contracting inclusion efforts to those businesses in the marketplace that need the most support.

So um I want to uh define or at least talk about how we defined the term local. So all of the analyses that we conducted as part of the disparity study or the vast majority of them and what I'll talk about today are built around businesses that have locations within the Virginia Beach marketplace or region. And we defined that based on information over our study period on the businesses to which Virginia Beach

awarded contracts and where they were located. And it turns out that the vast majority of the dollars that Virginia Beach awards go to firms uh and businesses and contractors that are located in Virginia Beach, Suffach, Chesapeake, Norfolk, and Portsouth.

Um, so I wanted to just make sure that we had a shared understanding of um, what we considered our marketplace.

So as I mentioned, one of the core analyses of any disparity study is to calculate the percentage of dollars that went to various groups of interests and in this case minority and womanowned businesses and service disabled veteranowned businesses. Um, I also want to mention that for the sake of time in the presentation today, I'm going to focus on results for minority and womanowned businesses. Um, results for

service disabled, veteranowned businesses look very similar. We go into great detail in those in our report, but um, just to keep this um, uh, concise, I wanted to just focus on minority and womanowned businesses in the slides that follow.

So for our participation analysis uh at the beginning of the process, we worked very closely with the city to collect detailed information on the contracts and procurements that the city awarded in the areas of construction, professional services, non-professional services, and goods in the 5-year study period between July 1st, 2020 and June 30th, 2024. So in total, that added up to $1.64 64 billion dollars of

contracting that we assess, excuse me, assessed as part of as part of our study.

And what the participation analysis showed uh when we calculated the percentage of dollars that went to minority and womanowned businesses was that the city awarded 6.3% of its contracting and procurement dollars to white womanowned businesses and an additional 4.5% to minority owned businesses. Um, and this is a good time to point out, um, that when we classify businesses as either minority or womanowned, when we

talk about womanowned businesses, we're talking specifically about white womanowned businesses. And for businesses owned by women of color, we classify them along with their corresponding race and ethnic group. So, for example, when I talk about blackowned businesses, I'm talking about businesses owned by black men and businesses owned by black women. And that's consistent with with just industry practice.

So looking at that 4.5% figure um for uh minority owned businesses that varies group to group. So it's driven in large part by blackowned businesses who received 2.5% of those dollars. And then Asian-Pacific owned businesses and Hispanic owned businesses each received a little less than 1% of those dollars.

So, of course, knowing the percentage of dollars uh that go to minority and womanowned businesses is very important for a variety of reasons. But um what becomes even more instructive in terms of policy and program development is to compare actual participation against what one might expect those businesses to be awarded in city contracting based on their existence in the marketplace,

their characteristics, their interest in doing government work, and a variety of other factors um and how that aligns with the actual contracts and procurements that the city awards.

That's the primary objective of what we call an availability analysis. So we use what's called a customs census approach to measuring availability. And that's just a jargony term. That means we collect a great deal of information about businesses out in the marketplace, a great deal of information about the contracts and procurements that the city awards. And then we go through a

contract bycontract matching process to figure out the degree to which businesses in the local marketplace.

Their characteristics align with the characteristics of the contracts and procurements that the city actually awards and then aggregate all that information to estimate the percentage of dollars that we would expect those business groups to receive if contracts were sort of awarded um to qualified and capable businesses at random. So to collect information about businesses, we reached out to thousands of businesses

throughout the marketplace and asked them to participate in what we call availability surveys. And as part of those surveys, we asked them to give us information about their primary lines of work, their locations, and where they're able to serve customers, their roles as vendors. So do they work as prime contractors, subcontractors, or both? um their business size in terms of their

revenues and their number of employees, how old their businesses were, their capacity, so what's the largest contracts that they can realistically compete for, their interest in uh performing government work in particular, and then ownership characteristics. Are their owners minorities, women, service disabled, veterans? Once we had that information, we compiled it into a fairly large

database. And then we went through every contract and every procurement that was included in our analysis, compared the characteristics of the businesses in our database to the characteristics of each contract. And then in that way, we're able to estimate the percentage of dollars that we might expect minority and womanowned businesses to receive on city work.

So looking at that same 1.64 64 billion of contracts and procurements. What our analysis showed is that one might expect 13.7% of those dollars to go to white womanowned businesses based on their availability for that work and then an additional 25.2% of those dollars to go to minority owned businesses. And just like participation, availability uh differs by group. So again, uh,

blackowned businesses, uh, accounted for about half of those dollars, uh, followed by Hispanicowned businesses and then, uh, at 5.1% of those dollars and then Asian Pacific owned businesses or what you might think of as East Asian businesses at 4.5% of those dollars.

So once we measured um participation, we estimated availability uh we then compared those measures which was the uh objective of what's called a disparity analysis and uh why a disparity study or how a disparity study gets its name. So in order to measure those uh we calculated uh what are called disparity indices. So for a particular group and a particular set of contracts, we took the

dollars that that group actually received during the study period divided by the dollars we would estimate them to be available for. So essentially what that disparity index communicates is how many dollars is a particular group receiving for every $1 we'd expect them to be available for. So I'm going to show a couple sets of results using the same format. So you see different values

of disparity indices on the vertical axis. In this case going from zero up to $2. It can actually go higher than $2, but we tend to cap it there. Um and then that horizontal line at the $1 point. So that's our line of par. Essentially what that means is that actual participation is generally in line with availability.

So for every $1 we'd expect a group to be available for, they're actually getting $1. So anything below that line indicates that they're being underutilized relative to their availability. And then importantly with this pink box, we indicate the zone of substantial disparities. So if a group receives 80 cents or less for every $1 of their availability, those groups are considered to be substantially

underutilized on an organization's contracts. And that's important because according to legal standards and case law around programs that use race or gender-based measures, um, a substantial disparity is taken as an inference of discrimination against a particular group and often serves for support for the continued use or use of race or gender-based contracting inclusion measures. So, we pay close attention to

which groups exhibit substantial disparities.

So let's look at the results for all city contracts considered together that we included in our study and separately for white women and minority owned businesses. So in both cases we showed substantial disparities for that group.

So white womenowned businesses had a disparity index of 46. Uh in other words they are receiving 46 cents for every $1 we'd accept uh expect them to be available for. Minority owned businesses their outcomes were a bit worse. So they actually received only 18 cents for every $1 of their availability for city work.

When we break down um disparity index or disparity indices uh for specific minority groups uh you see a similar but consistent trend uh similar and consistent trend. Um so all groups that we analyze as part of the study showed substantial disparities when you consider all city contracts considered together. So in other words, uh their participation by and large isn't lining up with their availability in the

marketplace.

That of course is not the entire story and we have lots of breakdowns in the disparity study report, but one that I wanted to highlight was related to the city's use of MBE project goals. So, as Levira mentioned, back in 2020, um following the previous disparity study that we conducted in 2018, um the city established a project goals program where um on construction contracts worth $5 million or more, the city began

setting uh goals as part of the award process for the participation of minority business enterprises specifically. So as a condition of award, biders had to uh include in their bids subcontracting commitments with minority business enterprises or u equal to or greater than uh whatever goal the city set or they had to show genuine good faith efforts. They tried to meet the goal but failed to do so. So this is

considered a racebased contracting inclusion measure. There's decades of um precedent for uh organizations using um programs like this as long as they meet uh um relevant legal standards and are narrowly tailored to um the needs of the marketplace, which is what comes out of a disparity study. So we want to look at disparity index uh disparity analysis results separately for contracts that

the city awarded with the use of MBE goals and cont similar contracts that they awarded without the use of the goals to measure the effectiveness of the city's goals program.

One other uh aspect to these goals that are worth noting is that I know I said that our analyses are based on local businesses. This is the one exception.

So the city uses SWAM certification um as part of determining which businesses might be eligible to participate in the goals program. SWAM certification applies to all minority and womenowned businesses, small businesses regardless of their location. So for example, BBC, which is our only location is in Denver, Colorado. We're SWAM certified as a small business. It is not limited to

businesses located in Virginia and it's certainly not located to or limited to businesses located within the Virginia marketplace. To account for that aspect of the program, um we expanded our analysis of business participation to include minority and womanowned businesses regardless of where they're located. So if they receive contracting dollars during the study period, we wanted to speak to the SWAM program um

uh in a tailored way and make an applesto apples comparison. So uh we included those minority and womenowned businesses in our participation numbers that otherwise weren't included in the rest of our disparity study analyses.

So with keeping those changes in mind, uh we were then in a position to compare disparity analysis results for construction contracts to which the city applied goals and large construction contracts to which the city did not set goals. So first with these blue dots, these are outcomes when the city didn't use goals. So white womanowned businesses had a disparity index of 53 cents. minority owned businesses had a

disparity index of 20 cents.

When you look at contracts the city awarded with goals, you see better outcomes for both white womanowned businesses and minority owned businesses. Uh I will freely admit I cannot explain the results um clearly for white womanowned businesses. They're actually not eligible for the goals program. It's an MBE uh goals program.

So, we don't have a great explanation for why they showed a benefit uh on those goals contracts. Um but focusing on minority owned businesses, we see the benefit there as well. So, when the city used MB goals, um outcomes for minority owned businesses were better. So, they had a disparity index of 20 without goals and that went up to 46 uh when the city applied goals to large construction contracts.

So we also looked at these results broken down by uh individual minority groups. And an interesting result that came out of that analysis is that the benefits of the use of goals for minority owned businesses in particular were exclusive to blackowned businesses.

So you see an increase um or better outcomes for blackowned businesses going from 23 cents for every dollar of availability up to 84 cents for every dollar of availability. So they actually moved outside of that uh zone of substantial disparities whereas you didn't see a similar effect for the other groups that we that we analyzed as part of the disparity study.

So, a number of um recommendations fall out of these results and we detail um uh about a dozen of those in the disparity study report. Here's uh some of them, but again, in the spirit of time, I wanted to focus in on two of those that we thought are pretty key to the city's implementation of the SWAM program as it evolves into 2026 and moving forward.

and that is their use of project goals and uh efforts to strengthen small business measures um as part of their SWAM program because um a disproportionate number of minority and womanowned businesses are small in size.

So I want to talk a little bit about number one how to define small businesses but also how the city can use information from the disparity study to inform um refinements it might make to some of the measures that it's using.

So, beginning with the use of project goals, um as I mentioned, the city uh sets or previously set um the program actually sunset uh last summer um goals, MB uh participation goals on construction contracts worth $5 million or more. Based on disparity study results, we think that the city could uh reimplement an expanded version of its project goals program. So, first we think that womenowned businesses should

also be involved and eligible for project goals. So, uh based on disparity study results, uh especially when you look at those contracts that the city awarded without the use of race or gender-based goals, you see substantial disparities for all the groups that we considered. that is support for the use of not only or the continued use of project goals for MBEs but also um implementing or introducing WB goals or

woman business enterprise goals that would be separate from the MBE goal but uh in the same way the city could set them as a condition of award when awarding uh particular contracts. We also think that because and I didn't show these data um there are substantial disparities for these groups uh across the board for different industries as well that the city could expand its use to project goals to more industries. So

architecture and engineering professional services both of which have subcontracting opportunities um those seem like appropriate expansions of the project goals program as well. And then finally, um the city has set a pretty large and conservative threshold for considering the use of project goals at $5 million. Um our research shows and our analyses of the city's contracting shows that there are plenty of

subcontracting opportunities on projects that are worth less than $5 million. And the city could certainly consider that information and consider expanding uh its program to uh include smaller contracts and smaller projects when it's making the decision to set a project goal. And then obviously all of this we're also suggesting that the city consider um reinstituting um its project goals program which as I

mentioned sunset last summer.

Another recommendation or set of recommendations we make is around uh a small business enterprise program and strengthening um the city's use of program measures that are designed to encourage the participation of all small businesses regardless of the race or ethnicity or veteran status of their owners. Um there is a lot of dispare there's a lot of information in the disparity study that will allow the city

to develop uh an SB program that is tailored specifically to the Virginia Beach marketplace. So we have information on primary lines of work of businesses that are interested and available for city work, their sizes, their capacity, um whether they work as prime contractors or subcontractors. The city can use all of that information and build a datadriven program that's specific to the needs of the businesses

that need the most support in the marketplace, many of which are minority and womanowned. Um, we also strongly suggest the city consider a tiered certification classification system. So, um, as an example, uh, SWAM certification at the at the state level, the Commonwealths program, if you make $10 million a year as a business, you are or you have 250 employees, you're eligible to certify as a small business

enterprise. Our analysis shows that when you use those standards, almost all businesses that are available for city work would would qualify as a small business.

We in our view we think there's a better more tailored way where uh rather than using a one-sizefits-all certification standard for small businesses and using such an inclusive definition of small businesses uh ironically we think it should uh probably be a bit more a bit less inclusive and account for the fact that small businesses are not all the same. So when we look at the cities uh

the businesses available for city work in particular, we found that 80% of those businesses actually make $3 million or less each year and 50% of those businesses actually make a million dollars or less. Um there are lots of examples of organizations who use a certification system that accounts for the fact that small businesses aren't all of the same size and likely have different needs. So, if you're a

business that makes $500,000 a year, you're just starting out, the needs that you have to be sustainably successful in the future are presumably quite different than a business that makes $9 million a year. And and yet most programs lump them together as sort of small businesses without sort of acknowledging the fact that maybe they need different types of support. So, we're suggesting just given the results

of the disparity study and some of our analyses that the city could take advantage of that information and really just build a stronger set of small business measures. Um, guess I covered that third point as well. So, um, I do want to thank you for again for the time that you've given us here today and I want to leave any remaining time for additional questions that anyone might have.

Yeah, your questions. Stacy, thank you for that. I find this fascinating. I just But I have just a question about you talk about adding women to the study.

Okay. So, what happens when you have a because I guess the one of the charts breaks out white women. What happens when you have a woman a minority woman contractor? Do they get counted twice?

They get counted only as minority. What?

How do they get counted?

That's a great question. Um, usually the way that that works is they don't get counted twice, although um, they they can in reporting and so forth. Um, but in terms of if you have project goals and you and a contractor wants to meet those goals, minority womenowned businesses can be certified both as womanowned businesses or minority owned businesses. But the contractor in submitting their bid has

to make a choice. are you using this business to fulfill this WBE goal or are you using the business to fill fulfill the MBE goal but not both? So that's usually the most common way to uh to treat that but um minority womanowned businesses would still be able to become certified as as both.

Thank you.

Of course.

Anybody else at this point? Jennifer.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'm curious about the SBE recommendation and how that fits into what the hive offers for like the accelerate programs and the different kinds of activities that are taking place, how we can either I guess boost that or is this something different?

So um how it relates to what we do right now is with within the hive we have uh various workshops uh that we participate in and we it's actually geared towards growth and development. That's where this would come into play. Um we use the state's certification. So anything any business that is going to be certified is going to fall under that state certification. And then what we do at

the hive is mostly based on growth and development. Does that answer your question?

Certification, helping groups get certified. And then what [clears throat] we're doing now is once they're certified, helping them to grow and scale out what they're doing.

Correct. And I believe with his recommendation, it'll be a tiered kind of certification based on um the micro business kind of like and the size.

Right.

And it could apply to you know programs overhead.

I got you have to speak in a speaker, sir.

Sorry about that. Uh, it it could apply to um programs that the Hive uh uses as well because um information like that um can just give more insight into what businesses need and how those needs might differ based on the size even if they're all small businesses. Uh and I also want to take this moment to give a shout out to the Hive. We just finished a project in Newport News as well. We

hear about the Hive all the time and always in complimentary ways. So I think the city should be really proud of of what the work that the hive does and that extends regionwide.

Okay. So Mr. Mr. Mayor, members of council lever, the purchasing agent will kind of give city council an overview of both the presentations and talk about the current landscape and provide the council with a recommendation as it relates to next steps and then we'll seek um answer any questions you have thereafter. So go ahead.

Thank you.

All right. So, um, what Samir just, uh, gave you was the update to the 2025 disparity study. And what I gave you before was from the 2018 disparity study. And I talked about, um, all of the things, you know, how we've been meeting the goals and everything from the 2018 disparity study. But what I do want to point out um are some of the different um different data sets that

are from the 2018 study and the 2025 study. So there's some significant differences in the distinct data sets that were used within the both studies.

Uh first of all, one study uh the the 2018 study was five years of data whereas the 2025 study was four years of data. Then there's a different uh RGMA or what we call relevant geographic market area. The 2018 study there were four cities uh Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, Norfol and Portsouth. and then the 2025 study were five cities Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, Norfolk, Portsouth and then with the addition of

Suffuk. Um in comparison of the utilization and availability data um those two last ones there in the comparison when you look at those things it's important to note that the 2018 study was conducted the data change with the availability the number of available businesses that are willing and able to do business with the city. Um, so that number increased in 2025.

So there's hard to do a comparison, applesto apples comparison between the 2018 study and the 2025 study.

And also want to point out some of the legal realities.

Uh the legal reality is a disparity study is required to focus on the region of that locality which is that relevant geographical market area that we talked about. uh the uh relevant geographical market area used in the data collection uh for the study again was the five businesses uh for this year while for the 2025 study I should say while Virginia procurement law prohibits restricting competition to defined

geographic areas. So what that means is Virginia law does not allow us in procurement to have a local preference.

Um and so it it emphasizes open competition in procurement. So we do want to point that out. Uh those two differences as well as you can see disparity study versus the Virginia law.

And then um want to talk about a little bit about our program success. I did go over some of the numbers and I did tell you that in fiscal year 20 fiscal years 22, 23 and 24 uh we had exceeded those numbers and this graph right here shows you that. uh our SWAM procurement programs has exceeded those aspirational goals for awards and spend um in 2022, 2023 and 2024.

And so with that 2018 study for the past, you know, three consecutive years and I will say that the when I say those goals, minority owned businesses had a 12% goal for participation in city contracting. women womenowned businesses had a 13.3% um goal and then uh uh service disabled veteran owned businesses had an 11.9% goal as well.

And then when we look at the program status so what we are seeing based on the current legal landscape of our federal government we've found some localities have implemented small business programs which are race and genderneutral programs. We've also noted that the Commonwealth of Virginia recently completed a study at the state level. Uh to date, they have not taken any action with that study.

So our recommendation would be taking the lead from the Commonwealth of Virginia. Uh the recommendation is to wait until the state has taken action.

As you [clears throat] know, Virginia is a Dylan rule state. localities are required to follow uh state practices.

That is our recommendation and at this point we will take any questions from myself or Samir.

Okay. If I could start off, um, you know, before I became mayor, I had the honor to be the leaison to the minority business council for 14 years. And therea I tell you you have been a stalwart champion and just provided the necessary tools and you know the demeanor and so you're to be complimented because we have made significant progress over the years and I mean significant even when

we got the study back number of years ago you know we were taken back by the numbers but you correct me if I'm wrong but we were doing a lot better than a a lot of other cities and even the state.

That's correct.

That is correct. And you know, in a way, you became the gold standard where other cities were coming to you to figure out how to do stuff. Correct.

They were coming to us. Yes.

Yeah. And I remember the vice mayor of Charlottesville came and spent a whole day with us because their, you know, their minority participation was abysmal. And uh once again I think uh if you remember back then that you know like in part of this we actually contracted with Hampton University you know to do an analysis it cost a $50,000 and they found out that a lot of pe a lot of the reasons people were not

getting to work was the capacity and then we went ahead even back then I believe it was even before the disparity study uh we started a contractor's institute group, you know, that we had and we had WM Jordan and a whole bunch of other ma major employers, you know, come and explain how to do the paperwork and things of that nature. Uh we lowered the bond requirement, there was a really

excessive bond, but but to deal with the capacity, didn't we allow, you know, groups to come together and kind of bundle their applications to get around the capacity?

Yes, we did.

Okay. So we have been you know extremely proactive you know for quite a while and once again I think we all should be proud there's always going to be work to do in this area but you know we are the gold standard uh u you know on how to do it anybody else at this point I just want to verify what you're saying because I remember bringing the young

man from Hampton for what we did the um that whole program you just Yeah. No, not on Hampton.

The Hampton Institute.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. You're talking about Bill Thomas.

Bill Thomas.

Yeah. From Hampton University. Yeah.

I've been, you know, on this journey for a little while. I'm just kind of validating some of what you're saying. I was here when that happened 50,000. So, have done a lot of work in there and again you have been there with us and one person we didn't mention after I was off council for a little bit we had a strong person involved in that didn't call his name out but I will and that's Michael

went with that marsh right down there so okay council people in different ways have been trying to help yes absolutely No, but uh you know, but I'll tell you what, I think we, you know, really have a lot to be proud of. And let me just say in dealing with the Minority Business Council, there has been a you know, let me talk about the participants.

There has been a seamless continuing of excellence in the leadership and the participation of everybody. And if you haven't had a chance, and I invite everybody in the office, when the when's the expo? November.

November. Yes, sir. get a chance, go to the expo and you will see hundreds of people. They're participating and they're going to have all types of vendors and things there and they usually bring in a keynote speaker.

Yes.

That really walks the walk. So, uh you know, once again, you have a lot to be proud of and you have made us proud.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay. We'll be moving on.

Uh, you know, colleagues, with your, uh, permission, I'm going to make a statement. You know, as you know, uh, you know, we did encounter, you know, a logistical, uh, challenge, you know, with the upcoming uh, you know, vote on the, uh, golf course. And I'd just like to read a statement, you know, to state a position and, you know, for also clarification.

The proposed sale of the golf course represents a pivotal moment for Virginia Beach, one that aligns strategic land use with the city's long-term priorities and directly supports the needs of our residents, including our military community. As we move toward the public hearing and vote on August 11, it's important to underscore that both the thoughtful process that has led us here and the value the decision can

potentially bring to the city. The decision to delay the August 12th uh to the vote to August 11th allows more time for the public to express their opinion before a major decision is made by council. It ensures that all questions can be fully addressed and the public will have the opportunity to clearly clear clearly understand the proposal before we take our action. Over several years after receiving multiple

unsolicited proposals, the city council has participated in eight closed session briefings on whether it is best to sell the golf course. All council members were present at least seven times for those meetings.

When these briefings were focused on ensuring any redevelopment aligns with community uh needs, fiscal responsibility and citywide priorities.

The number of briefings discussions on this topic demonstrates the seriousness of which council has evaluated both the sale and the potential benefits. More importantly, discussions around the need for affordable housing have not emerged suddenly. They have been deliberate, ongoing, and central to council's v vision since in September of 2023 council retreat.

Affordable housing has repeatedly surfaced as one of Virginia Beach's most critical needs. The city's 224 housing study clearly identifies a shortage of attainable housing options for our workforce and military members with vital threats in the community uh fabric. ensuring these uh families have safe, afford affordable, attainable places to live that strengthens our economy, supports military readiness,

and helps retain the talent that contributes to Virginia Beach's vibrancy.

The sale of the golf course offers an opportunity to respond directly to the realities confronting the city by unlocking land that can be used for more that can be used more strategically. The city can partner with responsible developers to expand housing options, meet documented demand, and rem and remove a significant capital expense off our books. provide new tax revenues and reinforce our

commitment to supporting service members and residents who are so essential to our community. This decision is not a simply a transaction. It's a strategic investment in Virginia Beach's future.

The thoughtful deliberation, repeated briefings, and intentional alignment with community needs demonstrate the city's dedication to ensuring ensuring that this project strengthens our neighborhoods, supports our residents, and reflects the values that we share.

Any other comment? Michael, thank you.

If I could change the subject.

You sure? Thank you.

Um, I have a couple of things. The first one is that I think we all have a letter at our uh at our seats uh that was prepared by uh Brent McKenzie um the director the legislative affairs leaison for the city. I got the title a little wrong.

I'm sorry. Brent, is Brent here?

Oh, maybe would I answer anything that you uh Yeah. would you mind um maybe coming up so that you can sort of describe the question if you don't mind. I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but I don't think you're exactly on the spot.

Mayor, are you okay with that?

Yes, I am.

The Bureau of Energy Management received a request uh related to um consideration of leasing of federal waters off Virginia for seabed mining for I think what's known as rare earth minerals and um there's a 30-day public comment period that I think is coming close to ending and we just learned about this request. So, um, what a variety of folks in the community have asked, including Linhaven River Now and other

environmental organizations as well as a number of other citizens, is that Virginia Beach make a request to the bureau that we extend that comment period to allow for uh for further participation. You have a draft letter that also includes um the city's opposition to that mining, which I'm happy to support. Uh I do think we need to learn more about uh this particular application and what seabed mining

entails and what minerals they're looking for and why. Uh but Virginia Beach has taken an oppositional position to offshore drilling and to uranium mining and in other parts of the state.

And so I think um an opposition to this um would be in in concert would be uh would be in alignment with the previous positions that councils have taken in particular because there are some essential features related to city of Virginia Beach including tourism, including the military, the navy, the operations that occur offshore, the the emerging offshore wind uh enterprise that's occurring there,

our environment and ecology that uh from everything I've been able to glean, seabed mining would would interrupt and potentially threaten. And so my request is that we are able to uh come together as a body to request that Mr. McKenzie um conveyed this position on behalf of the council and on behalf of the city. Do you have any I think you uh encompassed the the subject very well there, sir.

Patrick, so Mr. Mayor, if council doesn't mind, we can pen a letter and then Mr. Mayor, if you don't object, we can send it with your signature on behalf of the city. Is that okay?

Let's go. Let's go. So, we're just asking for more time to study it. Is that right?

And a deeper dive until Well, the the letter starts with a expression of opposition and I'm comfortable with that. Uh others others may want more time.

I see it as in um as really no different from the other positions that we've taken.

Well, I need to know more.

Yeah, I I need to know more. I I and we talked on the phone about this. I support more time so that we can learn more and maybe we should have a briefing on it, but right now I'm I don't want to say yay or nay because I frankly don't have enough information.

Well, I think I mean and I respect that position. I think it's reasonable to say certainly that we would express opposition until that comment period is extended, but I mean I'll leave it to the body if anyone has anyone else to say. I I I'm comfortable with with either. My preferences that it would be in alignment with our with the positions that have been taken previously.

Okay, Josh.

Um, thank you, Mayor. And um I I agree I agree with what you just said um Councilman that uh I my my inclination is just that it would be to oppose uh any such um any such mining um but but I I don't in the in the absence of an extension I my understanding is and from speaking with folks including a couple from LHaven River now who have been looking at this issue very closely um

you know it wouldn't be out of the realm of ordinary to expect the extension be granted because they routinely are. Um and um I I I would I would prefer uh opposition to going forward absent an extension, but but again that's just my my own my my own preference.

Um who all are benefiting from this because I keep reading through who are the people anyone has any answer to that?

are the beneficiaries of having to do something like this [snorts] if they allow drilling if they allow this. Yeah.

I mean, some would say defense industry, some would say national defense, some would say um mining industry, you know.

Um but there's also negatives as Mr.

Beluchcci point out as well that it can have to the environment and the sea, you know. So there is there's multiple perspectives on either side of this.

Council member, thank you.

Yeah, but once again, you know, I just, you know, I concur with Michael, but once again, I think we have to have a strong reason for opposition, and if we get the background on it, I think we can bolden our case. You is it possible to get some tertiary information back by the time we reconvene on August 11th?

So, uh, Mr. Mayor, members of council, um the 30-day comment period will have closed by the time we uh come together again. Uh however, I'm sure we can put together some more information for you and um get that to you. And in the meantime, if you're you would prefer, we can do the opposition based on the the limited time period and then, you know, if they extend that time period, we can

come back with additional comments. And my understanding also as well, and this is certainly not an area of expertise for me, but um my understanding is the next steps even if they decide to move forward with this, it would open up some sort of environmental impact study. Um and that typically, and I don't know if that would be the case here, but that typically includes additional comment

periods. Um and so there's some risk there that if they move forward like anything else, but um there's certainly I think multiple options here.

Okay, Stacy. So if I could suggest the wording that we have serious concerns about this operation, we would like more time to study it. We'd like to extend it to a 60-day period so that we could do further investigation.

In the absence of the ability to do more investigation, then we would have to be opposed because [clears throat] you okay with that, Mark?

I'm agree with that. Okay, let's do that. You okay with that, Vice Mayor?

Brent, you got um Thank you, sir.

Sorry, I just one one more. Um last weekend, the historic Chemsville area kayak launch opened and um that's in district 1. And council member Hutcherson isn't here. I know he I'm sure he would uh be sharing this, but on um in his absence, I just wanted to note that I told there were more than 55 volunteers um who picked up more than 800 lb of trash as part of that opening and

launch. Uh, I think that says something about the um some of the challenges that we have with pollution and and um and the environment, but it's also I think great to know that people were out there and enjoying the Elizabeth River and um that they have a new kayak launch in the Kempsville area to enjoy and be outside and um that more than 55 people participated in that I think is a really great thing. So, thank

you and thanks to all involved.

Anybody else at this point? Okay, let's go to Yeah, Steve.

Oh, thank you, mayor. I just want to take a moment to acknowledge a guest um that I brought with me today um a young man by the name of Zachary Bennett. Uh he's a high school student at Green Run Collegiate. He he'll be a senior and uh he he asked to job shadow me today. So, he's been here uh I met him at the Central Business District Association lunchon and uh he's just been a

fantastic young man and he agreed to stick with me all day and and all night.

So, uh so hopefully I've had you so thank you very much for being here.

I've enjoyed spending.

I I just want to follow up on I had the opportunity to speak about my h concern with housing uh in the city earlier which was I didn't expect to um but there was an artic um uh letter to the editor or a editorial that was written in yesterday's u Virginia pilot that I think really addresses the n not only the nationwide housing crisis but the the statewide housing crisis and you know what we need

to do as a city to you know just loosen up the reigns and make more housing available at all different status of the economic scale. So, I I just brought a copy for everybody, peruse it, but I think we're, you know, for the most part, we're we're of like mind as was uh demonstrated through our initiatives that were talked about earlier, but I just found this to be a very uh concise and uh enlightening

uh article. So, okay, thanks for pass.

Okay, just let's go to the I do have one thing to say. On Sunday, I was over at Queen City, which is one of our historic African-American neighborhoods and we celebrated a 100-year-old man and he's also a musician, one of the Buffalo riders.

It's amazing. We're sitting there and his group started the music and before I knew, up he was moving just to show you the impact of the arts and the music. He forgot he was sitting down in his chair and he was up moving and you know but they were really happy the city honored him [clears throat] and his name was uh Mr. Percel Bill. So I told him he could be honorary

first name Bill on behalf of the city for a day and he was just as happy.

Okay.

So I wanted to share that with you.

Okay. Anybody else at this point?

All right. Let's go to agenda review.

Okay. Under orders and resolutions. Uh we are pulling number three and we can pull number one. We'll hear it out.

Pull number one. Okay.

Issues or concerns about the other items?

[clears throat] three and one planning.

Yeah, it's just going to be a separate Let me explain. It's going to be a separate vote because if we pass it, there will be a presentation and it'll work giving.

Very nice.

Yeah.

Okay. Number one, there are speakers under planning. Number two, the uh City of Virginia Beach 3 zone R75 residents district one. This is in district 5. I'm I'm not only fine with it, I'm very happy about okay [clears throat] with that.

We are turning something into preservation.

Uh number three, Craig and April Dean, and that's in district six. U consent agenda please.

Number four, Craig and April Dean, District 6.

So, for four and some others here after this, I'm move for or I'm going to ask for a denial consent agenda for denial unless their applicant is here or how do we do that?

Uh, so we I'm not sure if the applicant has signed up at this point. They were at planning commission, so I would expect them to be here. So, most likely it would be full because we do have a speaker. I'll speak one one speaker but if the applicant signs up then that would be two speakers you're recommending denial yes and if you all want to know now or on the das I'm happy to talk

number five at John denial as well and we're pulling that one as what four five and six have speakers or one speaker but the speaker denial denial to it.

Okay. At this point, the chair will entertain a motion to recess and take close session pursuant to the exemptions from open meeting allowed by section 2.2 3711A code of Virginia as amended for the following purposes. Personal matters, discussion, consideration or interviews of prospective candidates for employment assignment appointment promotion, performance, de motion, salaries, disappointing or resignation

of specific public officers, appointees for employees of the public body pursuant to section 2.2371 11 and that's council appointments for boards commissions committees authorities, agencies, and appointees.

Do I have a motion? So second I

[snorts] Wilson.

Hi.

Hi.

We are recessed into closed. So if you

come all I'm going to call this meeting to order and if you're willing and able to stand for the invocation please.

Heavenly Father you are always with us and beside us. be with us this evening as we consider the affairs of our great city. Give us the patient to listen, the wisdom to decide, and the strength to act. Amen.

And if we may have a moment of silence for all those who paid the ultimate price to keep our city and our nation safe.

Okay. Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge [clears throat] allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Do we have a roll call?

Oh, there's the Madam Clerk.

She getting her steps in.

I apologize. All present, your honor.

Okay. Thank you. Do I have a motion for the certification of the close session?

Second.

One second.

Here

we go.

The vote is open. Apologize.

Thank you. We're good.

Vice Mayor Wilson, may I have your vote?

I can you [clears throat and cough] we can't close it. Can we?

No.

Yeah, we have to.

Okay. I can't do this. She has to.

Vice Mayor Wilson, can you press your button?

Excuse me.

Could you press your button? We can't close the vote.

I can't hear you.

Press the button.

Push it. No. No. Right up.

Use your finger.

I just just cancel it.

By a vote of 11 to zero, Vice Mayor Wilson's verbal I, you have certified the close session be in accordance with a motion to recess.

Okay. Thank you. Uh before we get to the uh consent agenda, I understand there may be uh some speakers on the consent.

So I'm going to go ahead and read uh the speaker policy. [clears throat] I want to remind everyone that the city council speaker policy that allows certain representatives of group to speak for 10 minutes applies only to planning items.

All other speakers, whether speaking individually on behalf of a group, will have up to three minutes to speak on a single item.

[sighs] Speakers are reminded that comments during the formal session of the meeting must be limited to the subject of the item that is being considered by the council at the time. Finally, I call upon all speakers and all persons in the chamber to be civil in their discussion and decor. Whatever views you have and wish to express, the city council wants to hear from you [sighs] and to ensure

that the all viewpoints are and all persons are respected. The best way to do this is for us to strive for civility and respect.

Okay. Uh do we have any speakers on consent items?

No, your honor.

Okay. Okay. Do the consent.

Okay. Under ordinance and resolutions.

Number two is the ordinance to amend city council section 10-1 to amend the Princess Anne area library as a location for absentee voting and remove the Meer Hovindorf central library location for absentee voting and in-person voting requested by the local electoral board.

Number four is the ordinance to ratify amendments to the bylaws of the parks and recreation commission. Number five is the ordinance to a appropriate $300,000 from the fund balance of the police federal and state seized assets serial revenue sub excuse special revenue fund to the FY 202627 police department operating budget for a $15,000 donation to the Virginia Beach Recovery Court and $5,000 to the

National Law Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund in honor of our fallen officers Christopher Ree and Cameron Irvin.

I open a public hearing on planning.

Number two is the city of Virginia Beach to the microphone. We can't hear.

I'll try better. Okay.

How's that?

um city of Virginia Beach to reszone R-7.5 residential district to P1 preservation district at at vacant parcel on Upton Drive directly north of 1088 Nemo Parkway and that is in district five.

Number three is the Craig and April Dean Dean Craig Dean for a conditional use permit a short-term rental at 40421st A District 6. And I believe that is it.

Mr. Mayor, move for approval.

Okay. Any other discussion? Let's open the vote.

Mayor, we need a second.

The vote is open.

[snorts and clears throat] By vote of 11 to zero, you have certified I mean sorry you have approved the consent agenda as read by Vice Mayor Wilson.

Okay. Thank you. And at this point uh the council always enjoys honoring people that deserve honor. Can Black Street P please come to the podium?

Swear to God, Jersey. Yeah.

Yeah. just stand on the other side of the podium for now. [snorts] You know, I tell you, you know, it's an honor to have you gentlemen here and to honor you and uh you know, let me just tell a little story. Number of years ago, Fel Williams, you know, native son of ours was being interviewed and he was asked, "How comes there are so many Grammy winners in this whole

area?" And then he said, "There's got to be something in the water because we got quite a few." But you heard the one that really helped start going, got the creative culture going and we say, "God bless you." So I'm now going to ask my friend and colleague Amelia Ross Hammond to read the resolution.

Hot diggity.

Whereas Black Street is one of the top Grammy awardwinning vocal groups of the 90s whose current members include Chanty Black Hannibal. Good. Levi Little, Mark Middleton, Eric Williams, and former members, Joseph Stoneree, Teddy Riley, Dave Hollister, and Terrell Phillips.

Yes. And whereas Black Street began in Virginia Beach recording their debut album Black Street 1993 to 1994 along with subsequent albums.

another level 1996, finally 1999, level two, 2003, and are currently back in the studio recording their fifth album, solidifying the city in the band Street in their history and future. And whereas Black Street played a central role in defining the R&B and hip hop crossover era, [clears throat] helping reshape the sound of Main Street music at a critical moment in its evolution.

Their influence continues to be reflected across generation of artists and remains embedded in today's global music landscape.

And whereas their debuted album featured four top 40 songs with the second album featuring no dity which was number one on the Billboard Hot 100 in November 1996.

And whereas Black Street won the Grammy Award for best R&B performance by duo or group with vocals in 1998.

And whereas Black Street represents more than a successful recording band. They are globally recognized for their music by shaping the soundsscape of a generation and continue to be a worldwide success to this day.

Lack Street is not only a pioneer of R&B but is one of the most important forces in modern music. Whereas in recognition of all that Black Street has accomplished in appreciation for the music that is loved around the world and created here in Virginia Beach.

Right. Now therefore be it resolved that the members of the city council hereby designate Beastley Drive in honor of Black Street and hereby directs the city manager to cause signage in honor of Black Street to be placed on Beastley Drive. given by the council of the city of Virginia, Virginia Beach, Virginia, the 14th day of July, 2026, and present this resolution dually signed by each member of the Virginia

Beach City Council. You know the expression.

Anybody want TO COME DOWN?

YOU HAVE TO VOTE ON IT.

OH, YEAH.

All right. We just got to vote on it real quick.

We got to make it official.

I think you got support, though.

I don't think we got a problem with this guys.

Okay. Do we have a motion?

Second. Any discussion? Let's vote.

One second, please.

This makes it all legal. Good stuff.

The vote is open.

Oh, thank you. My bad on that, Madam Clerk.

By a vote of 11 to zero, you've approved the resolution.

All righty.

Stand on this side. Stand.

Thank you.

Thank you, Virginia Beach.

strong.

I will be very

shameless.

This is real paparhead.

[snorts]

[clears throat] First of all, I would like to say I would never have thought 30 plus years later that this would be happening for Black Street. You know what I mean?

Teddy and I started this uh man back in 92 when we moved down here. I stayed uh right at uh Ashbrook Apartments right next to Beasley. So, it's a it's a it's an amazing accomplishment and um Virginia Beach has always been great to us and we give it give you guys all the the the thank you, you know what I mean? Mayor Bobby, let me tell you, that's this this guy is my

brother, you know what I mean? For real, from another mother. And uh let's give him another 10 years if possible.

And Chanty, why don't you mention what you're going to be doing in Los Angeles next year?

Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. So, you know, we getting a Hollywood uh Walk of Fame star and you know, uh Yes. Yes. Yes. So, it's a lot of things happening. We have a great uh brand new album coming out as well and you know what I mean. And then what we're going to do too once we do the ceremony, we're going to put a show around that and give it all back to Virginia Beach.

You know what I mean? For the fans. So, anybody want to come and see Hot Diggity, No Diggity, come on. Come on. Come on down and uh enjoy that. And and again, thank you so much, Virginia Beach.

And we give God all of the all of the glory cuz without him, we are nothing.

And one thing last I have to say we're so proud that you are part of District 4.

Thank you.

Yes. Thank you so much.

And Chanty, didn't you cut the record, some of it right in Virginia Beach that's coming out?

Absolutely. We we cut all Everybody's talking to the mic.

Absolutely. We cut the whole album here in Virginia Beach.

Yeah.

Thank you. God bless you guys.

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Okay. [sighs and gasps] Thank you.

That was kind of cool, wasn't it? My goodness.

Hey, we'll just hold a minute here, folks. Good stuff.

That's part of the life.

Okay, thank you all for your indulgence and uh now we'll move on uh to item number uh three uh ordinance to declare 300 plus or minus acres of cityowned property at 2500 Tournament Drive to be in excess of city's needs and approved the term sheet for the reduh redevelopment of the Virginia Beach National Golf Course and authorized the city manager to enter into a purchase and develop agreement

with Dragus Associates incorporate raid the sale and development of the property. Call the speakers, please.

The first speaker is Robert Valentine.

After Mr. Valentine is Teresa Chadwick.

[snorts and clears throat] Good evening. Um, I am Rob Valentine.

I'm a retired captain of Virginia Beach Fire Department of 25 years. [snorts] Master Sergeant, US Air Force retired of 26 years and a successful business owner. Vice Mayor Wilson, I just want to understand the business model that you say is a win-win on this dragg deal. A business model is a company's blueprint for how it creates and captures value uh and how you make money from it. A solid

business model ensures financial sustainability by mapping out your target audience, revenue streams, and of course cost structure. Your current business model gives the buyer dragg their money back, gives them more money for improvement, infrastructure, and other contingency monies. With the requirements of the term sheet, it's about $36 million of our money. Using this business model, as a real estate

agent, would you sell a home to a buyer, return their money, give additional money for repairs or improvements, and the seller gets nothing? Using this logic, I'm sure you would not survive that business. In your business, whether it's selling cars or in the law firm, is that the business model that you would use? give your sales and profit back to the customer? Of course not. So why are

we using our money on a failed business model strategy? April 21st, 2026, public works gave you a presentation concerning roadway projects. Currently, there are roadway projects in progress that are not fully funded, totaling $420 million.

Also, projects that are on the hold due to the lack of funding of 116 million.

How much is that? $536 million, but we're giving away 36 million to Dragas.

On July 6, council received a letter from the transition area interfacility area citizens advisory committee and [snorts] it specifically addresses the proposal from Dragus after lengthy discussion. It states, quote, "We recommend that the proposal is denied further consideration by city council."

The letter goes on to say regarding the VBN proposal that they sent a letter on January 7th, 2026 outlining the reasons to retain this direct ownership of BVN reserve and preserve is existing design.

It is a valuable asset quote worthy of preservation maintaining as a city-owned amenity without the intrusion of dense development in this vicinity. They also remind you that this proposal is in direct conflict with your imagined VB 2040. It's the comprehensive plan that this this city council recently adopted.

VB2040 contains six big ideas, but this proposal development is cont is a counter to four of the big six. Have any of you ever tooured the golf course?

Have you actually gone out to see what the called degradation of the course, the overgrown wastist traps, the cart paths that are deteriorating that the economic development has told you? I urge you to schedule a tour with me. See it for yourself. You owe it to all of us. You received an email from me this afternoon. Read it. Ask for a tour.

Thank you.

Next speaker.

[cheering]

The next speaker is Teresa Chadwick.

After Miss Chadwick is Usha Elwapu.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, and members of council. My name is Seresa Chadwick, and I've lived in Diamond Lake Estates in District 4 for 58 years. And while I currently serve as the vice chair of the Virginia Beach Tea Party, tonight I am speaking as one of our Virginia Beach citizens and a taxpayer. I appreciate the decision to defer the proposed development of Virginia Beach National Golf Club and

the dregs proposal. However, I'm still deeply concerned about how this process has unfolded when major decisions appear to have been discussed behind closed doors before the public was fully informed. It it damages trust. For nearly two years, these discussions reportedly took place between the developer, members of council, the city attorney's office, and the city manager's office, while the affected

residents and even our district 2 council member were left out. And that's just not acceptable. The citizens of Virginia Beach deserve full transparency about what has been discussed, what commitments have been made, and what studies have been completed regarding density traffic infrastructure environmental impacts, and public safety. Speaking of which, Saturday morning there was a very bad accident

just up here on Lanstown Road. That's something to consider here. Virginia Beach National is also home to federally protected bald eagles and their habitat must be protected. The issue is about more than one development. I urge you to remember that trust is earned through openness, accountability, and listening to the people you represent. And let's remember that some of you are up for reelection in November.

You please use this deferral to engage the public honestly, answer the questions that have been raised, and endure any future action reflects the will of the citizens of Virginia Beach.

Thank you.

[applause and cheering] The next speaker is Usha Ellisu.

After Miss Ellisu is Vincu.

Good evening, council members. I'm here to oppose the draggers proposal. Stop this handout of $20 million of our money to draggers. You have money to dole out to rich developers. But meanwhile, Indian River Road has been on the CIP list and it doesn't get funded. Pango Ferry Road has been on the CIP list for decades. Councilman Schulman and Councilman um Ramik, you were there at the presentation last week and only

recently did Pango Ferry Road get moved to the flood protection program to get some funding. Even now, it won't be completed until 2032. In the best case scenario, Pongo Ferry Road, let me tell you a little bit about it. It connects Princess Anne Road with Blackwater Road in the rural southern part of Virginia Beach. 5,000 vehicles cross it every day. Children use it to get to school.

It is critical for emergency vehicles to get to those residents and it's important for the hurricane evacuation.

However, it gets flooded even with a little rain, even on a sunny day when the winds push up the water. In the last eight years, it had to be shut down completely for 31 times just in the last eight years. And when it is closed, kids cannot get to school on that road. They have to do a detour and travel 40 miles to get to school and home. Mayor Dier,

you always say that Virginia Beach is a caring city, that we are one big family.

Does that include these folks living here? Are they part of this family? Or are they just stepchildren or maybe orphans? Why do they have to wait for decades to get their roads fixed?

Meanwhile, he readily gave $25 million to Cavalier Hotel, another $25 million to build Hudam Way, which was a private road for just two businesses, and this list goes on. And it takes away money that could have gone to fix our roads, our sewers, which is really the responsibility of the city. And you certainly don't have funding for Indian River Road, not for Pango Ferry Road all

these decades. And these folks who live in Pango and in Blackwater, they work hard to produce food, to put it on your tables. And these voiceless, faceless, poor farmers, they rely on you, the elected officials, to do the right thing. They don't dress up in suits and hobnob in country clubs with wealthy men like you, Mr. Cummings. They don't have money to give to political campaigns and

influence outcomes. Please get your priorities right. Don't give our money to the rich draggers lady. Think about that poor little girl who's taking a 40mile detour because the only road that connects her home to school is flooded and that should be your priority. Thank you.

THE next speaker is Ben Ellisu. After Mr. Ellispu is Amanda Willoughby to follow that.

Well, you recall I was here last week and we had a little bit of a discussion with one of the council members and I had a few follow-up questions. So I sent him a email with a lot of my questions but I didn't get any answers. So I'm going to repeat all my questions today and I'm going to read out my email to him so everybody will know what I asked.

Honorable Cummings, let us continue our discussion from Tuesday night. We had to stop because of time constraints. You can enlighten me with your logic. I have a few questions for you. When people move from Kempville to this development, will there be 660 vacant homes homes there now? Or will there be 660 empty housing units somewhere else? If there's no addition net addition of people to

Virginia Beach because of this development, how does the city collect additional 3.4 million in tax revenues?

If we assume we'll have empty houses somewhere, where is the housing shortage?

Is there no incremental cost of city services from 1300 people moving here?

Is everything a fixed cost? By the way, thank you so much for schooling me in the difference between fixed cost and variable costs. To be clear, I assumed only to be clear, I assume only half of the average city cost of $6,200 or $3,100 as marginal cost. You don't like it? What's your estimate? The city is assuming zero in its financial projections. In your expert opinion, that's reasonable.

I would appreciate answers from you. In the interest of full transparency, I'm copying Rick Bo, VBCCO chair, John Ducet from WHRO, and Chris Taylor, your opinion. So, I look forward to hearing from you and enlightening me. Go for it.

The next speaker is Amanda Willoughby.

The next speaker is Amanda Willoughby.

I'm just going to say that I did respond to you on July the 9th.

You did not answer my questions.

I did respond to you and said that I was willing to meet with you in person.

You just said that you were glad.

Please, please, he one at a time speak.

I will let you speak.

Stacy, I emailed you back said, "I'm willing to meet with you and discuss your questions in person." And I sent that to you and replied to everybody that you sent that email to, and you did not respond. No, no, you need folks, please.

Okay. No, no, please sit down.

Excuse me, mayor, but the way that this works is this is a public speaking.

Okay. I'm sorry. You're not You're not You're out of order.

Robert's rules of order.

Okay.

You cannot Okay, please sit down.

The next speaker is Amanda Willoughby.

Okay. Please folks, after M Miss Willoughby is Waverly Woods.

All right. [clears throat] Good evening, Mayor Dyer and members of city council. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. My name is Amanda Willoughby, and I don't have a fancy law degree or a finance degree. I don't have extra zeros piled up in my bank account. What I do have is 32 years here as a Virginia Beach resident, three children growing up here, a career here, and the privilege of serving my

neighborhood civic league. I personally have a lot invested in the city and its future. Many residents have already shared concerns about how this Virginia Beach National deal came together, so I won't repeat them. Although, it's worth mentioning that the number of those concerns are growing. But I do want to talk about what bothered me most, the lack of respect shown out shown throughout this process. Last week, we

heard public comment that Virginia Beach National somehow wasn't a desirable venue. Yet, for years, it's hosted city retirements lunchons dinners golf tournaments, and countless community events, all attended by city officials.

It's been good enough for our city and our residents for many years. We also heard comments and saw photos that criticized the condition of the course, which felt like a slap in the face to the employees. many of whom are residents of our city that worked hard to maintain a top-notch property with the resources that they had available. A property that ironically was recognized as one of the best public courses in

Virginia by Golf Digest in 2023. But what brought me here tonight is not just the deal itself. It's the disappointment I feel watching people who have been elected to make Virginia Beach better seemingly overlook the very values that they promise to uphold. Integrity, accountability, and transparency. Those words are the foundation of public trust. While I don't know if anything

illegal has happened, that's not my job to decide. I can tell you as a resident, as a taxpayer, and as a person who loves the city, something about the process just doesn't feel right. When a council member like Ben Barbara Henley can be blinded blindsided by plans developing in our own district, residents have every right to question how those decisions were made. Leadership is not about making the easiest decision.

Leadership is about doing the right thing, even when it's uncomfortable.

Tonight, I'm asking you to earn that trust. Slow this process down. Listen to the people of Virginia Beach. Vote no on the proposed sale to Dragas on August 11th. And give the city the opportunity to pursue a buyer willing to invest in Virginia Beach, not ask Virginia Beach to invest in them. Thank you.

[clears throat] The next speaker is Waverly Woods.

A after Miss Woods is Matthew Hammacker.

Good evening. My name is Waverly Woods and I am the chair of the Virginia Beach Tea Party and of Virginia Freedom Caucus. I think the lack of investigation on all of this is quite prevalent. The Virginia Beach Restaurant Association does not speak for the entire city, nor does it speak for the entire restaurant community in this city regarding this meal tax where you hold on. I'm not done finishing my

explanation and you'll see it's relevant. Wait, you'll see it's relevant. Bobby, don't interrupt.

Please make it relevant.

I will just stop interrupting me and reset the clock. RESET THE CLOCK.

THEY DON'T represent them because all of your private public partnerships get performance grants where they get these tax dollars back. And I am asking the serious question of whether the members of the Virginia Beach Restaurant Association have been on the board of your Virginia Beach Development Authority. I'm also asking if they have a vetted interest, whether it's direct or indirect, with any of these private

public partnerships that you have shoved down our throat. If the answer is yes to any of that, then their proposal of a compromise is not represented by everybody in this city. That's my point, Bobby. Now, Stacy, you owe Vincp apology for your behavior last week, whether you like that or not. And Hutchinson, you were at the June 26 meeting, and you have no clue of how this is going to

hurt our police revenue when you give them their tax dollars back or our firefighters. and you're a fireman or our first responders. You at that 26th meeting, June 26, 2026, didn't even know what sta storm water drainage was.

That's right. Oh, I have it on record. I have it on record. And that storm water drainage is going on at the golf course.

So, don't interrupt me, Bobby. You better reset that clock. No, we're not.

And Remick, your friend told 100 people that you gave him the hot tip. Don't worry, no one thinks that uh Mr. Styles over here is going to do any proper investigation. And then you got Beluchcci and Bobby and Rosemary having private meetings with her long before anybody else knew. And Josh is having uh public uh town halls where he has someone edit it afterwards so that he doesn't look bad during his election

cycle. and and Cash, I have asked you specific questions about the arsenic that's found in the ground and I haven't heard back from you from the wave poolool and I haven't heard back from you yet. Here's the thing. We're not stupid. You're allowing your developer donor friends to profit off of our demise.

We're not stupid and it's not raining outside.

We know the truth.

Now, you've got choices and you can kick this can down the road as far as you want, but those choices are going to be here at that next meeting and so are we.

OKAY. [cheering] The next speaker is Matthew Hammacker.

After after Mr. Hammacker, go ahead, sir. Is Polar Eat [snorts] council. My name is Matthew Hammacker.

When I taught government and history, it was my job to teach my students who we should be and why we're not there yet. I taught lessons about what corruption is and why it is harmful to a functional democracy. Believe me when I'm telling you, this deal is textbook corruption.

The process was corrupt because the outcome was determined before the RFP was ever issued. The [snorts] outcome is corrupt because the public asset is being undervalued so a developer can make hundreds of millions of dollars of profit while the citizens get worse than nothing. We're paying them to take it from us. None of these presentations and smokeokc screens have been for the

public's benefit. They've all been for you because Dragas doesn't need our votes. They need yours.

I need at least four of you up there to acknowledge two possibilities.

One, there are people up there with you tonight that have lied to you either directly or indirectly, by omission or not, to have this deal go through. Two, they have directed city staff to violate numerous codes of ethics and ignore our city's policies and procedures. To the career civil servants in this room, this city has such a high satisfaction rating because of the work you do.

As a fellow career civil servant, we owe it to the people who pay us to do right by them. We are the first line of defense, and that line we must hold.

Those 11 will not always be in those chairs, but the mission never leaves.

Hold the line. When this deal falls through and the wheels start turning on the next one, hold the line. Trust your policies. Stay on mission. And no, you are not alone in this fight. If this is the type of deal the VBDA has been brokering on behalf of the public, then something is wrong with the VBDA.

I will renew my call to audit the VBDA.

And I know I have the backing of two counselors sitting up there tonight already. Councilman Cummings and Councilman Schulman were the uh city council liaison to the process improvement steering committee who gave a report on January 14th earlier this year. The first bullet point of their report was a quote prove costbenefit ROI and a 25% expense reduction end quote for the Department

of Economic Development. I call for the immediate implementation of that recommendation and further a commitment to strip the 16 cent cigarette tax allocation from the VBDA budget until such an analysis has been conducted by an independent entity. Do not defer this vote tonight. More time won't make this deal less corrupt. And justice delayed is justice denied. Justice demands you

vote on this tonight and you vote no.

[cheering and applause] The next speaker is Polar Eme and then Jeremy Wing.

[snorts] Good evening to each of you. I had several speeches prepared, but before I begin, I want to address the media in the room. And I want to say that the media has portrayed a picture that is not true. We are not a city that is divided.

We are not a city that is divided over this issue. There is overwhelming opposition. And those of us who are standing in opposition are VB taxpayers.

We didn't get paid by dragg. We didn't get coerced. We don't get any financial benefit from this deal going through.

We're here because we wanted to sacrifice our own personal time to hold you guys to a standard that you're not holding yourselves to.

Last city council meeting, city attorney Mark Styles protested that nothing illegal occurred with regard to the dragg proposal. Unethical? We say yes.

But illegal, that remains to be seen.

the closer this entire process is scrutinized by the public and the more details that come out the worse it gets.

It's not just Dragus and it's not just those three city council members. It's also worth Remick that I'm going to bring him up. So, at a town hall that was gathered Monday, July 6th at Virginia Beach Public Library the day before the last city council meeting, this is what I and approximately 85 others heard and witnessed from Mr. Ed Augustine, whose company Paramount Builders was one of the eight proposals

which were rejected and not even seen by some of you. Here are Mr. Augustine's own words and I quote, "I got the phone call saying you weren't chosen." I hadn't heard from anybody for three or four months and maybe 30 days ago stuff started happening and I saw things on Facebook and people started emailing and I was curious because, you know, we worked hard for an entire year.

Hm. We really thought we had the best plan. When I finished my term as president at the Cavalier and Golf Club, my city councilman, Worth Remick, he didn't say Worth Remick, but he lives in your district, right, Worth? Okay. My city councilman came up to me and just said, "Hey, I'm going to give you an inside tip. They're getting ready to put out an RFP for the Virginia Beach Golf

Course, and I know your golf course is going to be shut down for a year here at the Cavalier, and there's lots of options there. Who knows, you may want to use the driving range. you may be interested in buying it. I was at a tennis tournament with him and we started talking about that. I hope I'm not being recorded here." End quote. I wonder why he wishes he wasn't being recorded. Why would Ed Austin Augustine

care? How would he have had a year to prepare his proposal? Because according to his own words, he got an inside tip on the impending sale of the B VBNGC well over a year of the time the city council made a formal RFP. I am no lawyer, but isn't that illegal?

Drake has got 16 months head start on the coveted golf course, but it appears another developer will already said that. Every single offer, this this should be off the table. Thank you very much.

The next speaker is Jeremy Wing.

After Mr. Wing is Melissa Lucasen. She Oh, there she So, I'm going to get the perspective from the desert to Chesapeake, an outsider perspective on the future of Virginia Beach National Golf Club. Good evening, mayor, council members, fellow meant of Virginia Beach Taxpayers, and co-owners of the city-owned public golf course. My name is Jeremy Wing. I serve on the Virginia Beach Open Space

Advisory Committee. However, I'm speaking tonight solely as a private citizen and Virginia Beach resident. The views I express are my own and do not represent the committee or the city. I taught those remarks from the desert to the Chesapeake as an outside perspective. We've heard uh several outside perspectives throughout this process. Mine comes from someone who proudly called Virginia Beach home for

the last three years and who's been paying Virginia Beach tax taxes ever since. I also recognize that many families in Virginia Beach have roots that go back generations. I'm looking said I'm not here to look, you know, get into ways of those traditions. I'm slipping here to share that Virginia Beach looks like through the eyes of someone who chose to make it a home.

Having lived through Arizona explosive growth, I feel like I'm watching Virginia Beach begin conversations that Arizona was having 20 to 30 years ago.

We learn valuable lessons about balancing housing, transportation, open space, and quality of life. My hope is that Virginia Beach can learn from these experiences and make thoughtful decisions before growth gets ahead of our roads, school, public services, and the character that makes this community special. This July makes three years since I've lived Scott from Scottsdale, Arizona and made Virginia my home. In

those years, I have been I actually have not been back to Arizona. My family traded the Arizona desert for real seasons, changing leaves, the Chesapeake Bay, and the Atlantic Ocean.

So again, I spent more than 35 years watching golf courses, desert, desert landscapes, and open space gradually disappear and as developers expanded. I also helped opened up the JW Desert Ridge Marriott and Hotel in Arizona, which held the follow course and the Palmer course. But once again, once those spaces are gone, it's almost impossible to bring back. A few days before last week hearing, something had

already changed in the way I looked at this community. On July 2nd, the America is narrated by Tom Hanks premiered on NBC, a Peacock, with the 4th of July in America's 200th anniversary, sorry, 250th anniversary, celebrating the year this year. I was excited to watch a documentary celebrating the beauty of our country. When I opened Peacock, I saw that the bald eagle feature that was

so prominent of the cover. Growing up in Arizona, we and hearing the stories from friends returning from Alaska cruise, I honestly assume the documentary would have taken viewers to Alaska. Instead, just 13 and a half minutes into that very episode, it brought viewers to our own backyard, the Hampton Roads and Chesapeake Bay region and highlights one of America's greatest conversations,

sorry, conservations, success stories that the bald eagle right here in Chesapeake Bay. Since it premiered, more than 35 million viewers have been introduced to this remarkable region.

Million of people are seeing what family saw. The forest, the waterways, the wildlife, the Ches Bay, the bald eagles.

Those are things that brought my family to Virginia Beach. After last week's hearing, I met with Drew from Dragas Company because I wanted to hear his perspectives. As a former first TE student who grew up on the the very golf course, he explains why he believes this project is right for them. Our conversation Appreciate it.

I did I asked for an expanded time accommodation.

I I didn't get your request.

I called you when when I when I called and made a phone call.

I You didn't get any prior notification?

I called when I called I put myself on on the call list. I asked for the extra time.

Okay.

Let's keep it to three minutes for everybody. Okay.

Okay. I can short it up pretty quick if you want to.

Okay. Actually, I'll just stop right here. What? Look at Arizona watches.

Sir, we're going to keep keep you to three minutes.

We're going to be fair to everybody.

So, you uh folks remember what I read in the speakers about civility.

The next speaker is Melissa Lucasen.

After Miss Lucasen is John Burke.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Last week, I sat and listened to community members speak in opposition of the sale of public land that includes Virginia Beach National Golf Course. I noticed how many people spoke in favor of this sale were all connected to the developer, and several of them came in from out of state to sell citizens of Virginia Beach this project. I think it speaks volumes when paid actors have to

be brought in to influence our elected officials. It tells me that there's so much profit to be made off of this deal that they will go to great lengths to sway our city council. Those of us paying attention realize this deal stinks. Not because people are anti-development. Not because people hate housing, because people know a crony deal when they see one. 342 acres of public land sold for $18 million to a

developer that stands to generate hundreds of millions of dollars from the homes, the golf course, the decades of mortgage revenue. The taxpayers take the discount. The developer takes the profit. It's a tale as old as time. For public record, a federal lawsuit has been filed in the Eastern District of Virginia. The complaint seeks an emergency injunction preventing the city from transferring this property while

serious allegations are litigated, including claims involving the public process, environmental law, and constitutional issues. And let's not forget, this isn't just a golf course.

This property is home to two active bald eagle nest nests. According [snorts] to the federal complaint, those nests are protected under federal law, and the plaintiffs have alleged that no authorization has been sought that would be required before disturbing them. We call the bald eagle our national symbol because it represents strength, freedom, and stewardship. Yet, here we are

debating how quickly we can sell off its habitat to build another subdivision.

Maybe the plaintiffs win, maybe they don't. But here's what I don't understand. What's the rush on this? Is Dragus going somewhere? Is the land going somewhere? Maybe sinking. Or is the only thing you're worried about is making sure that this deal gets done before too many people ask too many questions. You are elected to protect the public's assets, not to liquidate them. And frankly, after years of

watching this council choose developers over neighbors, political donors over taxpayers, and insiders over the public, people have earned the right to be skeptical. The appearance alone should concern every one of you. When a developer that has contributed tens of thousands of dollars to members of this council stands to benefit from a one of the largest public land sales in recent

memory, you should be asking how does this look to the people who elected us?

Because from where we're sitting, it doesn't look good. If you truly believe in transparency, if you truly believe this process has been above board, then you should have no problem waiting for the federal court to decide whether this transaction can legally proceed. If your [snorts] process is as solid as Mr.

Styles claimed, the court won't change that. But if you rush this through anyway, despite pending federal litigation, despite overwhelming public opposition, despite all of the unanswered questions, you will prove why we no longer trust this council.

Thank you FOR COMING.

[cheering and applause] THE NEXT SPEAKER, The next speaker is Sean Burke. After Mr. Burke is Sammy Brennan, Brennan, [clears throat] hello, mayor, city council. Um, I'm not a V Virginia Beach resident. I was smart enough to move to Moyok when it was cheap to do so. Um, but I've been a member of Virginia Beach National for 18 and a half years. So, why do I drive 40 to 50 minutes and longer in the summer

when the bridges are open and closing due to the yachts moving back and forth in the spring and fall? Why do I do that? Because the place is special.

It's it's by far the best public course in the area and driving short driving distance for me anyway. Now, I'm not a great golfer. I'm a mid handicapper. You know, I'm 10 to 12ish depending on the day.

Um, but I'm good enough to know a good golf courses a bad one. And I don't descri I don't recognize the course that has been described through through Dragus and all these all this media publications. Everything's been out there for the last for the last couple of months. I don't recognize that golf course because that's not the one I see three times a week.

Okay. And I don't know these people that you're describing that run into disrepair because they're not the people that I know that I've known for 18 and a half years. I do know that BBDA has has let some stuff go. I do know that you had to spend a fortune on that clubhouse because the sophets rotted out because you didn't mean the gutters that were built in and you didn't maintain the

roof. That clay roof was neglected. A clay tile roof. Broken tiles on it off for years. If you just had maintained the tile roof, that would have lasted for 50, 60 years. It was freaking clay tile, thick, thick. I know because I've been on it.

the the the fact that all this misinformation's been out there is just this whole thing is just so shady from start to start to finish. You know, I'm not even getting into the meetings with Dragons, but everything that's out there in the public right now, the things you're saying about the club and the conditions, you're not taking into account this $7 million figures out there about the drainage. It's not

taking into account that that that was the high estimate based on if you had to redo everything from start to the to the current standards and not grandfather anything in. And then you're you're throwing in all this stuff with the clubhouse, but that's a lot of that's already been done. The roof's already been done. And that re the roof and that sopet work was very expensive and you're

including that in the figure. And again, that only most of that work only had to be done because you neglected the roof and you neglected the sophets for so many years. were falling apart. With a little bit of maintenance 10 years ago, you could have avoided that. But when they got into doing the sophets, they found out that the steel post inside the columns were all rotted because all the

water was running down them for all those years. Anyway, I grew up in New Jersey. I've seen a lot of scams in my life. I'm going to call George Norcross in Camden County, send him down here to study this deal.

Good luck.

The next speaker is Sammy Brennan.

After Mr. Brennan is Holly Martier.

Uh, good evening, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, and members of city council.

Thanks for the opportunity to speak this evening. I appreciate your time and consideration. I understand the public vote is being deferred until August, but unfortunately, I won't be able to attend that rescheduled meeting. I wanted to share my thoughts with you tonight. My name is Sammy Brennan. I'm a local resident and I'd like to share my support for the proposed redevelopment

project by the draggas companies at BB National. As a new father to a five-month-old son, I find myself thinking about the future of Virginia Beach in a completely different way. I grew up here. I went to Allent Elementary, Linhaven Middle, First Colonial High School. After college, I moved away where I spent the next 12 years of my life across the country.

This past September, my wife and I made the decision to move back east because we truly believe Virginia Beach is a wonderful place to raise a family. We came back for the quality of life, the sense of community, and because we want our son to grow up here. Projects like this are the kind of investment that makes us [snorts] feel confident we made the right decision.

While many people will talk about the golf course renovation's impact on tourism or the new tax revenue that can be reinvested into the city, what stands out to me is the project means for families like mine. We have a real need for attainable forale housing and more opportunities for young families to put down roots. [snorts] We also need additional child care options which every parent knows are in high demand.

These aren't just nice amenities.

They're the kinds of investments that make it easier for people to choose to live in Virginia Beach and stay here. I believe this development represents the type of forward-looking growth that helps VB continue to thrive or preserving what makes it special. I want my son to grow up in a city that continues to evolve and invest in itself. And if we want our children to choose Virginia Beach as the place that

they build, [clears throat] the place they build their own lives rather than leave for cities they perceive as offering more opportunity, we need to embrace highquality projects that create housing, strengthen our communities, and improve destinations that people can be proud of. I appreciate the work that's gone into this proposal, and I hope you'll support it moving forward. Thanks for your time.

Thanks, Sammy.

The next speaker is Holly Martier. After Miss Martier is Walt Stone, [clears throat] I'm short. Pull this down.

Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, and members of city council. I'm here tonight as a deeply concerned resident of Virginia Beach who addressed two critical issues facing our community.

The future of our golf course and the proposed development of Shore Drive.

First, regarding the golf course, I'm relieved that the vote has been postponed, but the process leading up to this point raises serious ethical concerns. It is highly concerning that only three council meetings met with SCR draggas. An action that bypasses standard transparency and council procedures. If this city is going to transition public land, it must be done in a way that is fiscally responsible

and transparent.

We have viable self-funded proposal from Ed Augustine that would not cost Virginia taxpayers a single penny.

Choosing [snorts] a deal with Dragas under these opaque circumstances raises several questions, severe questions about conflicts of interest and demand full transparency and we deserve to know why a proposal that protects tax taxpayer dollars is being sidelined.

Second, I must urge you to reject the proposed building on Troy Drive. This project is entirely unnecessary and community input indicates it will drastically worsen flooding in the area.

Our inf infrastructure is already under me adding unnecessary Holly Holly that's remember we got to stick to the subject at hand. If you want to speak on the next one, you're more than welcome. She has signed up for shore drive as well.

I did sign up for that. Our residents are tired of feeling ignored and many are choosing to leave Virginia Beach altogether because they feel their voices are no longer matter. I want to thank Council Member Barbara Henley for listening to the community and I urge the rest of this council to do the same. Please stop prioritizing outside interests, respect the citizens of Virginia Beach, and make fair decisions

that are fair, transparent, and protective of the people who actually live here. Thank you.

The next speaker is Walt Stone.

After Mr. Stone is Jessica Wendish.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Walter Lewis Stone. You may have heard my name a few times. I did not come to speak on this issue tonight. I come for another matter. But I thought uh given the current climate I would mention a few words here. I [snorts] don't think it's any mystery that um you folks have lost trust and confidence.

Um many of us including me uh have a very bad taste in our mouths.

We have expressed our wishes, desires, thoughts to some of you.

Um, what we've seen is kind of what I tell my staff about. We work with kids and behavior. Don't listen to what's being said. Watch the behavior. That's going to tell you everything.

We've watched the behavior.

This is what's sad to me.

There is no amount of legal word wrangling that can be done by Mr. Styles or anybody else to cover up for unethical behavior. You can't. I was shocked when that information was being read at. I don't know Chris Taylor. You all do. That's shocking. I don't know who's driving this.

It's discouraging to me that the person who represents the district, Mrs.

Henley, doesn't know anything about this.

[snorts] Here's my thoughts.

I'm in business. You all have business.

When you make a mistake, you recognize it. You admit it. You don't have to do publicly.

There may be legal ramifications of doing that, but you admit it and you correct it. My thought here, uh, you go back to square one, start this whole thing over, and do it right ethically.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Jessica Wendish.

After Miss Wendish is Laura Hughes.

Good evening. As the chair of the transition area and inter facility traffic area citizens advisory committee, I did send you a letter on July 6th requesting that you deny further uh consideration of the proposal to sell VB National Golf Course. This recommendation was provided as several elements of the proposed plan is not congruent with the comprehensive plan the council has previously approved and

because systems for maintenance of the golf course are already in place. The VB National Golf Course is a valuable and vital asset of the city worthy of maintaining um being maintained as a city-owned amenity without the intrusion of dense development in its vicinity.

This ordinance to sell the golf course resulting in a redesign and development of hundreds of homes in close proximity to the course is not recommended for three reasons. The first, this proposal is in direct conflict with Imagine VB 2040, the comprehensive plan that you all adopted. The increased residential density and the alteration of the golf course has countered to four of the six

big ideas and their accompanying goals.

It does not improve flood and sea level rise, resiliency, wildlife migration, ecological diversity, and public enjoyment of nature. It does not continue the green line. It does not designate centers of multimotal corridors north of the green line, and it does not create unique community identities. Second on that list is the TITA is specifically suited to support low density development [clears throat]

regardless of the intent to maintain this area as a transition between the more urban urbanized north and the rural south of the city. It is known that the soils in this area do not drain well and are not suitable for high impact or high density development. the volume of homes proposed and the accompanying impervious space for parking amenities and such far exceeds the reasonable limits in this

area and will likely cause greater issues of storm water management in our future. Third that was featured in the letter is that this proposal is in direct conflict with ongoing ideas and plans in our city. This creates confusion and further conflict in our community. from roads to storm water mitigation and even sports tourism, our city already has plans and priorities.

So, this is counter to the work that you all are charged to conduct. Although the committee understands that the proposal presents an opportunity to mitigate the costs associated with maintaining the golf course and generates it does generate much negative consequence on the environment and it will set a precedent that the city council can and will veer from following the adopted comprehensive plan. Additionally, the

proposal was not necessary to entertain as maintenance of the golf course is already the responsibility of the VBDA per the lease with the city of Virginia Beach and its agreement with the BB Golf Club LLC. They simply need to be held accountable.

The excess that was purchased that this is referring to was purchased to preserve it from development like this and therefore it is not appropriate to move forward. THANK YOU.

THE NEXT SPEAKER is Laura Hughes.

After Miss Hughes is Rick Bo.

Good evening.

So, I hear talk of this business model and it's true. This is a horrible business model. um any kind of a deal there's offer acceptance and consideration and the citizens have not been given any consideration. The buyer here will get a 100% rebate and the seller is being forced to accept a deal with no consideration whatsoever.

We hear that we had issues with failed de uh management on the part of the VBDA. Another thing that we the citizens are tired of are unelected, unaccountable entities. And in this case, they failed.

Instead of giving away public property, perhaps we need to eliminate a failed management team. All of this has created failed public trust. There's been a failure in processes. There's been just complete tonedeafness when it comes to the citizens and all elected officials at every level of government need to stop thinking of themselves as leaders.

They're not. They're elected representatives and they should be representing the will of the people.

What we would like is for you all to represent us. What we're hearing is let them eat cake and that's a problem.

Please, please do not go through with this deal.

The next speaker is Rick Boils. After Mr. Boils is Danny Murphy.

Good evening, folks. For the record, my name is Rick Boils. I'm a lifelong Virginia Beach resident, small business owner, president of two civic organizations.

As I stated last week, standing at this podium, I'm not for this project. I'm not against this project. I'm here because of the process we took to get here.

Let's be clear about why we're not voting tonight. We had a legal problem that required to be corrected. It wasn't a courtesy to the citizens of this city.

Somebody in the legal department screwed up and we had to postpone it.

This type of process, failure is what your reputation rides on. And at this stage of the game, your reputation is tarnished with the people in this city.

Financially, financially, this project nets zero dollars to the city. Uh we're going to put the $17.94 billion in escrow. We're going to guarantee another $18.1 million. There is no net increase in the general fund under the VBDA's existing lease. You've already heard this several times tonight. VBDA is responsible under the existing lease for any maintenance over $5,000. If there is a deficiency of $7.7

million in this golf course, it is a direct responsibility of the VBDA and their failure to act.

Another highly troubling aspect of this is the term sheet conditions that are currently in place in the draft term sheet. They allow the city manager and the city attorney to negotiate if you approve this deal all other terms and conditions that they consider reasonable. And these two men get to decide what's reasonable. You are abdicating abdicating your responsibility to the voters of the city

of Virginia Beach by giving that much authority to these two men.

Finally, this property sits in district 2. I'm privy to the foyer requests that started in 2023.

You all left Councilwoman Henley out of this process in the beginning.

That's unacceptable behavior. Period.

End of conversation.

Legality and integrity are not the same test. a legal defect serious enough to form a uh force a postponement.

Authority handed off to city staff with no voter input. The most affected district left out of the process early on creates an appearance of impropriy and that is not a good look for the city of Virginia Beach.

The taxpayers are following this. I suggest pay attention.

The next speaker is Danny Murphy.

Danny Murphy.

I'm not here to speak on this issue.

Okay. I'm sorry. You're for sure drive.

That's my my mistake. Uh Martha Theorough and then Larry Batter.

Let's go on.

Good evening.

I'm here today in strong support of Councilwoman Barbara Henley and for the thousands of Virginia Beach residents who want the Virginia Beach National Golf Club to remain a public golf course, not another large-scale residential development.

For years, the city-owned property has been enjoyed by residents and visitors alike. It has earned the recognition of an out as an outstanding golf course and remains a valued public asset. While maintenance has declined over time, that is not the failure of the citizens who use and cherish it. It is a management issue that should be corrected, not used as justification to sell off public

land. What concerns many of us even more is the process. The public learned through a Freedom of Information Act request filed by former councilman Chris Taylor that the city had been meeting with the developer for approximately 16 months regarding a proposal to build more than 600 homes on roughly 300 acres while also considering transferring an additional 42 acres of public property.

Those discussions occurred long before the public had any meaningful opportunity to participate.

Only after those negotiations did the city issue a request for proposals. Nine proposals were submitted, yet they were ultimately rejected, and the public has been given little explanation on how they were evaluated.

Even more troubling, Councilwoman Barbara Henley, the elected representative of the district where this property is located, was not informed of those proposals.

That is difficult to understand.

Councilwoman Henley has faithfully represented her district for decades.

She knows its history, its character, and its people. The citizens of her district elected her to be their voice, not to be excluded from decisions that will permanently reshape the community she represents.

This proposal also raises broader concerns. Expanding residential development into rural southern area undermines the purpose of the Virginia Beach Green Line established to protect agricultural land and guide responsible growth. It also risk increasing encroachment pressure around Naval Station Oceanana and Fentress facilities that are vital to our national defense and our local economy. This decision

should not be driven behind closed doors or by interest of a single developer. It should be guided by transparency, public trust, and respect for the people who reelected you. I urge this council to honor the wishes of the community, preserve the Virginia Beach National Golf Club as a private as a public golf course, reject any proposal that compromises the Green Line, and ensure Councilman Barbara Henley is fully

included in every discussion affecting the district she was elected to serve.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Larry Batter.

Larry Batter.

Batten. Sorry, I can't. And then after Mr. Batton is Justin Goodman.

[snorts] All right. Um, thank you, mayor, for this time. Uh, I want to thank Dave. Uh, he returned some calls last week. We talked for 50 minutes. We didn't agree on what we were talking about, but we had a fair, calm conversation, as it should be. Um, my history is uh, 24 years Navy submarines operating engine rooms um, off the nuclear power plant. I spent my next 16 years testing

submarines in Newport News and writing them and being in charge of the whole steam electric plant and you guys have been beat up enough for the last two weeks and if I ever went to my bosses and said, "Hey, there's a problem."

Without some solution, that would not have been a very good conversation and I would be on the losing end of it. So I came with some solutions that I think you should look at and perhaps and think about and enact. So first thing first t it's a great thing. I've been on the putting green of Virginia Beach National or the driving range and watching all those kids gather up. You can hear their

laughter. They're having fun. It's a good thing. And you you see all the good uh words about the first te what it does for our kids. Keep that. Don't let that mess up. Do the $1 deal if you want.

Just make sure the YMCA has the equipment they need to maintain the land. I don't know who does that now.

Um, second thing, I know there's these are all the things that you want out of this deal. Child care. Yeah, I've got a daughter, two kids. Child care is so expensive. It's it's terrible.

So, I understand that need. Um, if you want to put it out there, do that. Have the city do it. Have somebody else do it. Um, you're going to have to do something about that traffic because every time I leave there after playing golf, it's like Frogger and I'm the frog trying to get across there. So, please fix that. Um, but spend the city money to do that. I don't think anybody would be against that. Uh,

the next thing is the golf course. I think the city should keep it. I think it's making money for you. All the problems everybody spoke about is true, but it's a great place to play golf. If you need to sell it, sell it with the same deal of maintain it as an 18hole course as is. Do your fixes. You had some bids that wanted to do that. Please look at them. And then the part about

housing, I don't necessarily agree that we need a ton more housing. There's been some local things I've seen in the news that say in five years we're going to have too much, but I understand your joy, your your need to do that. Take that 42 acres that they're going to build the first and or second and third holes on, give that to Miss Dragus or sell her, sell it to her or have her pay

for that 178,000 back to the state.

There's also Dennis down the road who said, "Appreciate you coming."

23 acres for sale.

The next speaker is Justin Goodman.

After Mr. Goodman is Teresa Krabs.

Yeah.

So, uh, I'm Justin Goodman. I come all the way from Prince George. I go across the DMV to, you know, tell boards like yourselves about yourself. You left. I can't believe it. You know, you should have like waited till someone was done speaking. You're sitting back like you're about to kick your feet up. The reason that you wouldn't want to send the dude in writing what you wanted to

say is so it wasn't a record. Man, we all got hipped. So you wouldn't send him in writing. That's cool. Whoever's back there, yeah, you want to have a conversation. That's cuz you want to hide what you say. But we, you know, we're hip to it. So y'all are a bunch of cowards. I will say that, you know, with this whole thing, you all can't be trusted. Why is the splash pad closed?

Anyone want to answer that? Is that because the transmission lines electrocute people and you guys are investigating that? I spoke with Parks and Wreck two Wednesdays ago. I ironically I gave him my information and this is why it's relevant to this cuz y'all can't be trusted. I warned you I would be here to drop this bomb. So check it out. Two Wednesdays ago, two Mondays ago, I warned y'all that I got a

call from one of your citizens that Village Green shocked them. Okay, so transmission lines have induced voltage.

It electrocutes you. Okay. Why is that park closed? I went there today. I took readings. That's on my Facebook. I got them. I called and Yeah, you smirking like a right there. Yeah.

Freedom of speech. Hey, freedom of speech.

Thank you so much. Your attorney knows that. I've been in contact with you.

Yeah, you know, buddy. I've been in contact with all y'all. I said I would be here to do this. I said it. And you all think I'm a coward. I'm not. Parks and wreck. I spoke with the director on Wednesday, two weeks ago. I said that I got a report that your facility electrocutes people out of ironically you guys close it and you guys like are paving it. It's still closed today. I

went there today. I'm trying to figure out and get to the real scoop because y'all are cannot be trusted. NDAs with Dominion Energy. So, let's get to the bottom line. Induced voltage can travel off transmission lines 180 ft. There's an OSHA report. I'm send it's relevant. So with the golf course, y'all got probably NDAs and a bunch of backdoor deals. Same thing with Dominion Energy. Why is it that the lowincome

housing is next to these transmission lines? Why is it? Huh? That's nationwide. Ask Dominion about induced voltage. Why is it that the cancer rate in these corridors are higher? Okay, let's go back to the golf course. Let's go to the golf course specifically.

So why is it that you guys are going to possibly approve housing or something?

There are cancer clusters around golf courses. Human life is worth way more than what y'all do it. This is just pathetic. And I'm serious. And y'all, you got people back here complaining.

Y'all are elected officials. Y'all represent us. Who? Like, what the hell are y'all doing? For real. It is an absolute disrespect to the American dream. And I'm 100% pissed off. And they are. And you know what? Just cuz they're not as mad as me don't mean I am pissed. And I'll be back. Justin Goodman, you better recognize me because I'll be back here next month. God bless America. Put your feet up on the goddamn

table Bobby.

Disrespectful The next speaker is Teresa Cross.

Folks, can we keep it civil, please?

And then Leslie McGuire.

Yes.

Good evening.

My name is Teresa Krauss and I'm here to talk about BB National. The mayor properly asks everyone to remain respectful in their remarks and yet city staff were negotiating on a land deal about a major asset owned by the city BB National but did not inform inform the district rep Miss Henley for many months that conversations were taking place.

Several other council members were involved in her district without her knowledge. Is that what the mayor calls respectful?

I was envisioning a new version of the Monopoly game for Virginia Beach listing VB National as one of the properties.

However, I couldn't get the game to work because in Mona Monopoly, when you sell a piece of property, you get cash. And when you buy a piece of property, you pay for it and you don't get any money back. [clears throat] Unlike Dragus, who's getting back 17 million to invest in the property, plus contingencies and performance grants. Wouldn't we all like that deal when we buy a house to get back funds for renovation?

In this sale, Dragus gets a major asset, renovation funds, and will make millions off of town houses to be built. It is said 8 million is needed to renovate the golf course. Simple math seems that it would be cheaper to renovate and still own the asset with no impact on roads or other services. Now, look at the aquarium in the vice mayor's district.

They had indicated they needed hundreds of millions or far more than the golf course needs for renovation, but talks of selling that asset have stopped. Why is that different? Why not work a little harder on solving the golf courses needs without taxpayer impacts? Council talks adnauseium about the lack of public land, but there is plenty of private land. But when there is a shortage of an

item like land, the item demands a premium. You ask the buyer for concessions or more money. Not this council. You keep giving away public land to industry off Princess Anne and now to Dragas. I am not opposed to development, but I am opposed to corporate welfare using public funds.

For the council members who want to vote yes because of housing, please wait until we better understand the impacts on already crowded roads and storm water from planned development south of Damne Neck. Don't do this peace meal. Princess Anne and Ferrell Parkway are two of the three ways out of the southern part of the city, but there are no plans for expansion, which will cost tens, if not

hundreds of million dollars, millions of dollars. So, what's the ROI on this deal when that's factored in? By the way, it took me five minutes to make a right out of my plan tonight on Princess Anne. The vice mayor told me at her town hall that storm water will need to be negotiated and roads once a contract is in place with Dragas on the golf course. So, I'm guessing there will be more taxpayer

dollars involved in this project than revealed to date. Any vote should be deferred until a new council is elected so those governing forward can review and have a say. So, appreciate it.

There is no hurry to approve this project.

The next speaker is Leslie Maguire.

And after Miss McGuire, we'll move to the WebEx speakers.

Hi everybody. I'm Leslie. I live in District 9. I'm a house cleaner. I don't really hold any kind of position or title or anything that would give you a lot of facts. Um, I just came here tonight because I'm slowly learning how the city works. And as soon as I kind of stuck my nose in everything, I just found a bunch of corruption. So, I want to apologize for being an uninvolved

citizen for the past 20 years, but I want to thank you because your corruption has reignited my civil spirit.

And I'm also here to finish um what our friend from Arizona was trying to teach us a lesson about where he came from.

So, I'm going to pick off where Mr. Wing um left off. He says, "After last week's hearing, I met Drew from Draggas Companies because I wanted to hear his perspective firsthand. As a former first TE student who grew up on this very golf course, he explained why he believes this project is the right path. Our conversation wasn't just about where we disagreed. We also talked about

opportunities we both care about, shared his passion for health, fitness, and recreation and building a stronger community. He even told Drew that if this project moved forward, um he'd be interested in helping develop fitness and wellness opportunities because that's something he's passionate about and in his opinion, an area where Virginia Beach has room to grow.

Although they walked away with different viewpoints, he appreciated hearing his perspective. It reminded him that people can disagree while still wanting what's best for Virginia Beach. He understood the need for housing. We we understand the need for housing, but if um I'm going to read this as he wrote it, but if we're serious about affordable housing, let's use the city's own

definition. Affordability isn't just the selling price. It's the mortgage, property taxes, insurance, utilities, and HOA dues. Living in Arizona, I watched communities that were once affordable become difficult for many families. Taxes increased, insurance increased, HOA dues increased. What started as an affordable HOA payment eventually felt like a second mortgage.

Let's measure affordability by the total monthly cost, not simply the purchase price. At last week's meeting, we also heard that the Hampton Roads YMCA could become part of this project. Um, childcare is important, but I'd like to offer another perspective from my own persp experience. I worked at the Princess San YMCA. I also worked for the city of Virginia Beach's out of schooltime program. I know firsthand how

dedicated the employees are in both organizations. From my experience, the city offered stronger wages, paytime off, excellent employee support. I also remember being paid during severe winter weather and school closures, which showed me how much the city valued its employees. [snorts] I am going to skip ahead just a little bit. He is asking that it's in big type. What is the rush?

If there are already redevelopment opportunities elsewhere, why not fully explore those first before making an irreversible decision about this cityowned public golf course? My request is simple. Give Councilwoman Barbara Henley, the residents of her district, First T, Century Golf, Draggas, nearby neighborhoods, local businesses, and community partners six months to develop a comprehensive plan with measurable

goals. If those goals aren't met, the council will still have every option available. Sometimes leadership means trusting the community. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

We have two WebEx speakers. The first WebEx speaker is Kim Mayo. Miss Mayo, you are unmuted and may begin.

It should be deferred until the new council is in place. I'm actually here tonight to speak on a planning item in District 9, but first want to briefly share concerns on the golf course matter, a violation of public trust.

Thank you, citizen watchd dogs who've shown up. I'm concerned about the RFP process and possible violations of state and federal law, which will be examined with the lawsuit. It appears VBG was dealing exclusively and confidentially with Dragus, a preferred developer who's donated money to many of you. No other RFP was issued. What's done in darkness will come to light. Lastly, I was

flabbergasted by the disrespect of Councilwoman Mrs. Henley and conduct from the DAS towards public speakers.

It's not the first time some of you have embarrassed yourself. If Stacy Cummings, Berluchcci, and Schulman want to speak to their own secretaries or wives that way, fine. but never act that way towards any citizen who takes the time to share our expertise or our passion.

Unethical behavior has no place here.

Josh Schulman was even involved in the falsification of a District 9 June 8th meeting video to cut out certain speakers. Thank you, Chris Taylor and John Moss on the foyas. Let's keep speaking out and take back our great city. This golf course is our public land just like Pleasure House Point.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Ra Marsh. Miss Marsh, you are unmuted and may begin.

Thank you, Council Mayor Dyer. I am a retired certified fraud examiner.

Concerning the RFP process for Virginia Beach National, it is my professional opinion that there appears to be illegal, unfair 16-month competitive advantage given to Draus. This appears to violate the VBG written procurement ethics policy.

I am not seeing fairness and transparency in the procurement process described in the VBG gov policy because the the process requires the nine biders competing for the specific VB national project do not derive a competitive advantage and biders are prohibited from contacting any city employees other than purchasing division staff members of record. That is your written policy. Was

the DRAUS submission with the 16-month advantage effectively a private public partnership?

It seems the September 2025 VB National RFP was misleading because five of the RFP responses were honest and focused on the golf course operations.

The four other RFPs were housing developments. Did they get different RFPs or did they get different information?

Were there false official statements given out? Two parcels were included in the VB National RFP ED2504, approximately 350 acres. The property is zoned agricultural A1 with restrictions due to aircraft noise affecting much of the land and density limits for residential development. What's concerning is I'm now learning you're getting ready to convey four parcels in the term sheet. Have these four parcels

always been included in Dragus' response? Did all eight of the other RFP respondents know there were four parcels?

Are these parcels part of what state funding purchased for B? Does the state need to be repaying?

How did the NDA signed by city manager Dehaney and developer Draggus complicate the unfair advantages?

There appear to be many unfair advantages in the VB national RFP process. council, you represent citizens, so it would be the best solution to pull this VB national RFP and kill it. And as you know, a number of you, the city of Virginia Beach, Mayor Dyer, Miss Wilson, Mr. Deaney, Mr.

Styles, and the Dragus companies are all now named in a federal lawsuit.

Thank you.

Thank you.

MAYOR DYER, that's all the speakers, sir.

Okay. Mrs. Henley, you have a motion and some comments.

Uh, I don't know if I want to say a whole lot to tell you the truth. This has been quite an evening. Uh but I I do want to say that, you know, I'm sorry that uh things turned out that we couldn't uh do as we had uh planned and had the vote tonight. Inadvertently, the mistake was made and needed to be corrected. But I I think I am kind of

glad in another way because it slowed down the process and I think that's exactly what needs to happen.

So, it [snorts] appears that it will be at least August 11th before we have this before us again. And I hope that we can take this time to look at this deal and see if this is what we really want to go forward with.

I in trying in trying to recall just exactly what happened and unfortunately uh uh I had some uh issues with the family at that time and with illness and I don't remember the exact date when I first uh when we first had the close session presentation that I remember was the first I heard about this was probably maybe in February But the thing being in closed session uh means that you know I don't have

notes and that kind of thing and so it's it's my memory. But the thing that hit me so much with that presentation was the number of housing units that were going to be built on this property. And that really stuck with me rather than the rest of the deal. And the thing that concerned me so much was that I couldn't tell my constituents because I had that information in close session. So I

couldn't go out and do what I normally do and let my constituents know what was happening. And I have an annual I mean a monthly forum uh the fourth Thursday of every month with the district. And I wanted to be able to tell them what I knew that I could tell. And so I asked the city attorney uh what I could say and he told me I couldn't tell them the

number and that kind of thing. But I asked him to come to my session and relate legally what we could do because I didn't want to inadvertently say something that was not uh acceptable.

And I appreciate Mr. Styles uh going to that u forum and and letting the people know that there was a proposal out going on. It was a contract that needed to be negotiated, very legal to be talked about in close session, but we really couldn't give all the information out.

And so that's kind of the way that stood. And so, um, the thing, as I said, that really has bothered me so much, I've I've got concerns with the financials and so forth, but to to have as a part of this deal that this applicant gets to build 659 housing units on that 42 acres, which is just barely out of the Akus uh, territory.

really disturbs me and not knowing what we can do uh to accommodate that gives me a lot of concern. Even uh yesterday I met with staff and one of my questions was well what is going to be the traffic generation from those 659 units and and how many school children are we going to need to educate? And the answer was, well, those studies will be done when we do the resoning because, okay, folks, please

because we have to reszone this property in order to folks please in order to allow the this housing to be built because the property is zoned agricultural now and it will have to be zoned probably to A18 in order to allow this amount. So, all of that yet has to be done. and the fact that they haven't even done the studies yet to tell us how much the traffic is going to be from

these units that are going to come out just behind the Harris ter off of uh uh Nemo Parkway in those 659 units gives me a lot of concern about what the traffic is going to be like when all of that traffic tries to get back onto Indian Princess Road. Those kinds of things are issues that are troubling to me and I hope that we're going to have time to talk about all of this and understand

all of these things that are a part of this um golf course deal and and that's a bit of a problem. You know, we take a golf course which should be a a very fine project. It's a great golf course, maybe not nearly as bad as we were led to believe, but it's a good golf course.

the city owns this property and all of these things are occurring uh because of the way this all has been handled. So, I hope we can get back on track. I hope we can make these things work out. I hope we can turn all this into a really good proposal. And I hope that this extra 3 weeks or four weeks that we've got now will allow us to have some good conversations to really try to work

these things out and make it all come out for the best for all of us.

Please.

And so uh I uh I think we have to defer a motion to uh make a motion to defer this application to August 11th. We have a second.

Second.

Okay. Any conversation? Yeah, let's open a vote.

The vote is open [snorts] by a vote of 11 to zero. You have deferred this item till August 11th.

Okay. Thank you for all who participated with that. Okay. Moving on to our next uh planning item. uh Shore Drive Area Properties LLC for a conventional change of zoning from PDH H1 uh plan unit development district to conditional B4 SD mixuse district and a conditional use permit Ray a 52 um unit uh condomin condominium project with a small commercial component at 3853 Shore Drive

parcels directly southeast of 3853 Shore Drive District 9.

Lisa Murphy representing the applicant.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer. Um, Vice Mayor Wilson, members of city council and staff. For the record, my name is Lisa Murphy and I'm a local zoning attorney here today on behalf of the applicant, Shore Drive Area Properties, which is also the owner of the property. As the mayor mentioned, the property is zoned PDH1 planned unit development district and it's located within the Shore Drive area corridor overlay. It's

approximately 2.2 acres and it's currently uh a fenced storage yard. The applicant is seeking to reszone the property from PDH1 Plan unit development district to conditional B4 SD mixeduse district and to obtain a conditional use permit for multif family dwellings. Uh the proposal is a 52 unit forale owneroccupied residential condominium building that'll include approximately 2,00 to 2500 square ft of community

oriented retail space. As some of you may know, several years ago, this property uh was along with several others part of a larger resoning request for 197 multif family apartment units.

um that application was withdrawn.

In the last two to three years, my client uh the applicants representatives started meeting with members of the community and civic organizations uh civic leaders to develop a plan for the redevelopment of this highly visible corner property. That outreach included over 30 meetings during the last couple of years with community members, representatives, civic leagues, and community organizations really up and

down the shore drive corridor. Early meetings focused on what type of project would be compatible from a use and a scale perspective. Feedback indicated that a forale owneroccupied product would create a greater sense of long-term community investment and stability and would be an asset for the surrounding neighborhoods. That first round of meetings and discussions led to the initial design of a 62 unit uh for

sale condominium project. The project before you today is the result of further feedback and further modifications received uh during the course of the last several years and has been modified to address uh some additional community concerns. The project as I mentioned is a 52 unit uh forale commercial condominium project.

The concept plan is before you on the screen. Uh [snorts] the 52 units would consist of two-bedroom units, threebedroom units, fourbedroom units.

All of the residential units will have large one-story balconies approximately 20 feet by or 10 feet by 20 feet creating uh generous outdoor living space. Green space on the roof of the uh at the center of the building will be an amenity for all of the unit owners. And then green space on the uh rooftop closer to the um south end of the property will be for limited use by the

unit owners with direct access to that space. An outdoor pet relief area will be provided on site for all residents.

Residential units will range in size from 1,200 to 2400 square feet for the larger units. Um that corner space which you see on the screen in front of you uh at the the center of the screen is the 2,00 to 2500 square foot commercial unit which will be controlled uh by the applicant. It's envisioned as a commercial space that would be a local market or other complimentary retail space featuring an outdoor patio and

seating which would further activate the street frontage at the corner of Shore Drive and Marlin Bay Drive. The [snorts] building itself, as you can see, is oriented to face the intersection of Shore Drive and Marlin Bay Drive with a step down and massing towards the residential uses to the south. A piece of artwork at the corner will provide a central focal point along this very

important gateway to the city. [snorts] At the building's entrance on Marlin Bay Drive, there'll be a central lobby and passenger pickup and delivery area. A 10-foot multi-use trail will be provided along the property's frontage on Shore Drive, and a multi-use path extension will be provided along the property's frontage on Marlin Bay Drive, adding to the walkable character of the project.

An 8-oot privacy fence made of woodlike uh lowmaintenance material painted in earthton tone uh will add a buffer as you can see there uh and separate the property from the town homes to the south. All of the surface parking will be located behind the building facade facing Shore Drive and will be screened from view from Marlin Bay Drive by a decorative fence and landscaping. The surface and ground level parking will

consist of 126 parking spaces, which is actually 12 more than what would be required for this mix of uses. Um, the project will not have direct vehicular access, as you can see, to Shore Drive.

There'll be uh access from three access points on Marlin Bay Drive. The project incorporates meaningful uh buffering and screening as I mentioned uh that further support compatibility with residential uses. Enhanced landscaping, a 15 foot by buffer and the 8-foot uh privacy fencing at the rear and the screening of the surface parking all helps to reduce the visual impacts and reinforce that

separation of the town homes. Want to talk to you about the building a little if we could go back to the uh view that shows the corner.

So there were a, as I mentioned, a series of meetings. Uh, several of those meetings were with your Bayront Advisory Commission. There were recommendations that came in um that came in just before planning commission, but the the There you go. You've got a side byside. The building design on the left is the original design. Bayfront Advisory Commission asked uh the architect said could you change the articulation so

that it's a more horizontal articulation and then peel back that top layer to really reduce the scale and the massing.

And so the uh rendering you have on the right hand side as you're looking at at the screen does appear to have a smaller scale and that was at the recommendation of the Bayfront Advisory Commission. As the staff report indicates, we're seeking a couple of deviations. The balconies, which as I mentioned are large, very generous balconies. They extend uh into that 30foot setback on

the side of the property on the Clipper Bay side. And so we're requesting a deviation from that. stairwell enclosures and the stairwells as well as guard rails extend just a little bit over the 35 foot maximum height that's allowed within 100 ft of the residential traffic engineering has described the proposed trip generation as modest giving exi given the existing traffic volumes uh ongoing and planned shore

drive corridor improvements will also continue to enhance multimmodal connectivity and transportation infrastructure the uh you should have in your packet a letter from Linhaven River. Now, I think it's uh important to note that there's no current storm water management on the property. It's compacted gravel and uh hard soils and the the water when it hits it sheet flows into either Short

Drive or Marlin Bay. So, as the Linhaven River Now letter says, redevelopment of this particular property is actually going to s significantly improve uh the current conditions. It'll have modern underground storm water management facilities that will detain runoff and reduce localized flooding and greatly reduce pollutants entering uh Pleasure House Creek. The letter also indicates that the applicant has worked with

Linhaven River now uh to incorporate native plant species into the landscape design to reflect the natural character of Pleasure House Point. And they will provide an important habitat and food source for pollinators in a way that will help extend some of the ecological benefits of the protected natural areas of Pleasure House Point.

In conclusion, the proposal is consistent with a comprehensive plan and shore drive corridor objectives. It includes a thoughtfully designed building that's oriented toward the Shore Drive Marlin Bay intersection. It [snorts] incorporates a predominant or a prominent corner feature and steps down from five stories to three stories adjacent to the existing town homes to improve compatibility with surrounding

residential uses. The project supports multimmodal transportation goals through the addition of a 10-ft multi-use trail, sidewalks, internal pedestrian connections, uh, bicycle parking, and the elimination of direct vehicular access to Shore Drive. The [snorts] setback and height deviations are limited in scope and are necessary for the building design will not have an adverse effect on adjoining properties.

In conclusion, as your staff report indicates, this well planned development advances key concepts of the comprehensive plan objectives of the shore drive quarter, including redevelopment of underutilized properties and the promotions of neighborhoods. Notably, it avoids overcommercialization of the area and preserves uh established neighborhoods.

Planning Commission, Bayront Advisory Commission, and your staff have all recommended approval, and we respectfully request that you approve these applications. the conditional reasonzoning and conditional use permit applications. I will stand by for questions and for rebuttal. Thank you.

Any questions at this point?

Okay. Thank you.

The next speaker is David Redmond.

After Mr. Redmond is Martha.

Hey, good evening, Dave.

Well, good evening, mayor, members of council. I'm delighted to be here. For the record, I'm Dave Redmond. I've lived in District 9 for 44 years. I served on planning commission representing District 9 for 15 years. As a teenager, I took dates to the Shore Drive-In.

This has been my home for most of my life. So, it's particularly satisfying to me to support this wonderful improvement of an underutilized eyesore of a property in my community. It is truly a public benefit. I hope everyone has read the staff report because the staff report explains how thoroughly this project fits within the shore drive corridor guidelines, comports with the comprehensive plan, and incorporates

private sector not only initiates but pays for storm water improvements. This is how we fix it. Without question, this project provides a more welcoming presence to the Pleasure House Point Natural Area. It is good for Pleasure House Point. And with less than 24 units per acre, this project is far less dense, less dense than many existing older and less attractive properties in very close proximity. Several of which

are in Ocean Park proper. We are not in Creeds or Blackwater here, folks. It's Shore Drive.

For at least 25 years, I've heard that whatever might come next is the end of Shore Drive as we know it.

But sky never fell. It's never been true. Shore Drive has never been richer, never been more vibrant or attractive, never in greater demand. Property values have never been higher. And you all have a lot of bills to pay. This project will only make this terrific community, my community of 44 years, more attractive, kinder to the environment, and richer still. We should welcome and celebrate

these public benefits, these very public benefits on Shore Drive, in District 9, and anywhere in Virginia Beach. I do, and I urge you to support this no-brainer of an application. Thank you.

Thank you.

Questions?

Okay, we're good. Thank you.

The next speaker is Martha Theorough.

And then Claire Leblanc.

[sighs] Oh gosh, this is hard.

Good evening. I respectfully ask for you to defer this resoning application.

This is not a vote on whether this property should ever be developed. It is a vote on whether you have enough information to make a responsible decision. Today, you do not. The applica the applicant seeks a dramatic increase in density on 2.2 acres in an environmentally sensitive area with known flooding concerns. Yet there is still no storm water management plan.

Still no storm water management plan. We are told it will come after the resoning.

That is backwards.

before granting additional development rights. Shouldn't the public first know whether the site can safely handle the additional storm water? The city has also acknowledged that another pump station is needed in this area, yet it still cannot say where the pump station will be located. If the city cannot tell its own citizens where the pump public pump station will go, how can it

responsibly decide today where private development should go? The city is also engaged in condemnation litigation with the same developer over property needed for another pump station. That case will not be resolved until after the November election.

The there is another concern. The developer is one of Virginia Beach most prominent citizens. Her attorney serves as chair of the Virginia Beach Development Authority. There are public officials and advisory board members with known associations to the developer. Whether those relationships affect anyone's judgment is not for me to decide, but they make it even more important that this decision be based on

complete facts, complete transparency, and a process that earns the public's confidence. Finally, I remind you of your own promise. In September 2021, this council unanimously asked the citizens of Virginia Beach to approve a $567.5 million flood mitigation bond. In return, you promised that protecting storm water capacity would guide future land use decisions. The voters kept their promise this council should keep

its promise. So, I leave you with one question. What public interest is served by approving this resoning tonight instead of waiting a few months until the storm water management plan is complete, the location of the needed pump station is determined, and the pending condemnation litigation has been resolved. If this project is truly appropriate, it will survive approp be appropriate then. There is no public

harm in waiting. There is substantial public risk in acting too soon. I respectfully ask for you to defer this resoning. Thank you.

The next speaker is Claire Leblanc.

After Miss LeBlanc is Teresa Chadwick.

Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, and members of city council. My name is Claire Leblanc, and I have lived in Virginia Beach for most of my life.

Called Mariners's Landing home for over 40 years and spent 38 years serving, proudly serving Virginia Beach City Public Schools.

I know Shore Drive has changed over the years. Communities should evolve, but the best communities do so thoughtfully with careful consideration of how each decision shapes what comes next. I also want to acknowledge that the Shore Drive condominium project has improved. These improvements include reducing the project from 62 to 52 units, stepping down the height near Ocean Tide Strive

where I live, adding buffering and landing and landscaping, and increasing parking. These improvements matter. They also make it more important to ensure the remaining questions have been fully answered. Questions remain about whether this fivestory mixeduse building is fully compatible with the surrounding neighborhood and what precedent its approval could establish for future redevelopment along Shore Drive. For

adjacent homeowners, practical concerns, including traffic, parking, privacy, buffering, and drainage, deserve clear answers before construction begins.

This project is about one building. Your decision is about the kind of future Shore Drive will have. People are drawing are drawn to Shore Drive because it feels different from other coastal corridors. Its mature tree canopy, its connection to the Chesapeake Bay, and its blend of neighborhoods and natural beauty give Shore Drive a character that is becoming increasingly rare. Once

those qualities are lost, they will be exceedingly difficult to reclaim.

I understand that redevelopment brings investment and increased tax revenue.

Those are important benefits, but strong communities are remembered not simply for what they build. They are remembered for what they choose to preserve. As an adjacent property owner, my goal is not to halt development. Rather, it is to ensure that development enhances Shore Drive without diminishing the qualities that have made it one of Virginia Beach's most distinctive communities.

Before approving this project, I respectfully ask that the council be confident that the record clearly demonstrates the project's compatibility with the surrounding neighborhood and addresses the remaining concerns of adjacent homeowners. If it does not, I respectfully ask that you allow the time necessary to complete the record before making a final decision.

Thoughtful growth and preservation are not competing goals.

They are the foundations.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

of successful communities. Thank you for your time and service.

The next The next speaker is Teresa Chadwick.

After Miss Chadwick is Wendy Crutchfield,

welcome back.

Welcome back, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, and members of council. And yes, my name is Theresa Chavik. I am the vice chair of the Virginia HT Party. I'm speaking tonight as a citizen. However, um I urge you to really defer this Marlin Bay proposal until the public can be assured that our infrastructure, traffic, and public safety concerns have been fully addressed. The Shore Drive

corridor has been endured nearly two years of road construction. Residents have experienced constant con traffic congestion, detours, and delays. I've driven up Shore Drive quite often myself on Monday mornings when I go to Great Neck and it's boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom [gasps] before approving another high density development the city must demonstrate that the surrounding area road network

can safely and efficiently handle additional vehicles. Another concern is that of public safety. Very recently, there is a fire at Aries on the Bay right around the corner from this where this property is supposed to be going up.

And this incident reminds us that emergency response times, access for first responders, and evacuation routes are not theoretical concerns. They are real issues that affect lives.

Growth should never outpace infrastructure or compromise the safety of the people who already live there.

and the residents of Virginia Beach deserve responsible planning that puts public safety ahead of development schedules. We deserve transparency and meaningful public input and decisions based on facts, not assumptions. So, I'm going to respectfully ask that you defer this proposal until the necessary traffic, infrastructure, and public safety issues have been thoroughly answered and addressed. Thank you.

The next speaker is Wendy Crutchfield.

After Miss Crutchfield is Christa Woodlock.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer and Council.

My name is Wendy Crutchfield and I'm speaking in opposition to the Marlin Bay condo development in its current high density form. As a property owner adjacent to the proposed development, two concerns stand out. First, why did Virginia Beach spend years and how many thousand dollars developing the shore drive corridor design guidelines if we are willing to disregard them when they

matter most? This property sits directly at the boundary between the green zone and the mixed zone at Marlin Bay Drive.

That boundary was intentionally established through extensive public planning, professional study, and taxpayer investment.

The guidelines describe the green zone as an area defined by the mature live oaks and pine forest of Pleasure House Point created to protect and highlight environmentally sensitive lands, wetlands, waterways, and natural areas.

At Marlin Bay Drive, the corridor transitions into the mixed zone. The plan recognizes Ocean Park as a unique coastal neighborhood with homes dating to the early 20th century and recommends low and medium density residential development mixed with businesses that support the community. That transition was intended to protect the character of the area, not erase it. This proposal is

not low or medium density development.

It would increase the permitted density nearly sixfold. It will also place a five-story building in the very location intended to provide a gradual transition away from the environmentally sensitive grain zone.

If a five-story building at this density belongs in a transition area, what exactly is a transition area?

If a six-fold increase in density is considered compatible with the mix zone, what does low to medium density even mean? This decision is about much more than one parcel. It's about whether our adopted plans have meaning. It's about whether residents can trust that the plans they helped create will actually guide future development. There is also an unresolved fiscal issue. The storm

water system here connects to the half ccentury old Mariners's Landing neighborhood and this property has been identified as a potential location for a muchneeded storm water pump station. The city has not yet determined how much of the property may be needed for this project. Those questions should be answered before any zoning change is approved. It would be fiscally irresponsible for the city to

substantially increase the development value of privately owned land and then later determine that taxpayers must purchase that same land for a public purpose at an inflated acquisition price created by the city's own resoning decision.

Please protect the integrity of the transition between the green zone and the mix zone by upholding the design and comp plans. Resolve the storm water pump station question before increasing the value and development of this potential property and please deny this zoning request until it Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Crystal Woodlock.

After Miss Woodlock is Sandra Dah.

Good evening, mayor and council members.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. My name is Dr. Christa Woodlock, and I have proudly called Ocean Park home for more than 20 years.

I am here on behalf of many neighbors who are deeply concerned about the proposed reszoning and highdensity development at the corner of Marlin Bay and Shore Drive. Our civic league leadership adopted a position of neutrality on this project, but that position was not based on a true consensus of the Ocean Park residents.

There was no formal vote, no neighborhood survey, and no transparent process to determine community support or opposition. Yet, this project has continued to move forward as though the neighborhood has endorsed it. For a development that would dramatically change our community, the lack of meaningful public input is deeply concerning. Ocean Park is already a dense neighborhood with narrow streets

and predominantly duplex style homes.

The proposed resoning would increase the allowable development from 10 homes to 52 condos on just 2.2 acres. This increase of 42 additional homes which would increase to 42 additional homes. The level of density is simply incompatible with our existing infrastructure, traffic capacity and environmental constraints. We are not opposed to growth. We understand that cities evolve and we want Ocean Park to

evolve as well. But growth must be thoughtful, proportional and shaped with genuine input from the residents who already live there. Our concerns are practical and immediate. Increased traffic congestion, parking overflow, storm water management, and added strain on emergency services, schools, utilities, water, and sewer infrastructure.

These are not hypothetical issues. They are the realities that our neighborhood will have to live with long after this vote. We respectfully ask you to retain the original zoning that fits the scale and character of our community. We want development that strengthens Ocean Park, not one that overwhelms it. We want a process that genuinely listens to the residents and preserves safety, stability, and character of the

neighborhood we love. At this time, I would like to invite residents who oppose the current resoning to please stand.

As you can see, many members of the community are asking you to preserve the current zoning of 10 homes rather than approve 52. I respectfully ask you to listen to your constituents and vote no on this resoning request. Thank you for your time and consideration.

[cheering] The next speaker is Sandra Dao and then [snorts] Karen Bashers.

[clears throat] [snorts] Good evening.

Good evening.

Can I ask what this is?

There's a timer. Three. Three minutes.

Once the green light goes on.

What's the yellow light mean?

You got one minute to go.

Okay.

I'm sorry. No, the yellow light's 30 seconds.

Okay. 30 seconds. [snorts] Yes. Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, members of city council. My name is Sandra Daw and I'm a resident of Ocean Park. I'm asking you tonight to please vote no on the Marlin Bay resoning.

I'd like to focus on two issues tonight.

Traffic and public input.

As you know, Shore Drive and the surrounding neighborhoods are already under tremendous pressure, especially with the ongoing challenges created by the Linhaven boat ramp overflow.

Anyone who frequently travels this corridor knows traffic continues to get worse.

This project won't just affect Shore Drive. It will push additional traffic onto Marlin Bay Drive and through our neighborhood.

I cannot understand how adding this level of density serves the public interest in an area that is already struggling.

This is not a request for a small adjustment. It is a substantial increase in the density of development proposed for this site.

There is one other point I believe is important.

At the planning commission meeting, the Ocean Park Civic League president told the commission that the community was divided [snorts] and cited the June meeting as support for that conclusion.

I think it's important that you know the Ocean Park membership was never asked to determine its position through a formal vote. The June meeting represented only a very small fraction of the membership.

There was no advanced notice to the membership that a vote would occur, no verification of voting eligibility, and no application of the one vote per household rule. I'm not suggesting that residents don't hold differing opinions.

They absolutely do. I'm simply asking that you understand the process behind that statement before deciding how much weight to give it. I respectfully ask that you deny this resoning request. If this property is to be developed, it should be with a proposal that is consistent with the city's adopted plans, compatible with the surrounding neighborhoods, and respectful of the character of the Shore Drive Corridor.

Thank you for your time.

The next speaker is Karen Bashier and then Holly Martier.

Good evening. My name is Karen Brashier and I've lived in Ocean Park for 10 years. I first fell in love with this neighborhood renting on Jefferson Boulevard. The maritime maritime forests along the point, the quiet walkable streets, a beach that still felt like ours. I loved it enough that seven years ago, I bought a home here. I didn't move to Ocean Park because it was going to become something else. I moved here

because of exactly what it already was.

I'm here tonight, like so many of my neighbors, to ask you to deny the resoning of the Marlin Bay Drive parcel or at minimum send it back until it actually reflects the density that this corridor was planned for.

Now, let me be precise about what's being asked of you tonight because the numbers matter. The current zoning on this 2.2 acre site allows for 4.25 units per acre, roughly 10 units. This application asked you to approve 23.63 units per acre. That is not an increase.

That is a complete rewrite.

Nearly six times the density that this land was ever intended to carry.

The city didn't arrive at 4.25 units on acre by accident. It came out of years of public process that produced the shore drive corridor design guidelines.

Now, a fivestory building at six times the allowed density isn't a transition.

It's an eraser of the very thing that a transition zone exists to protect.

Now, I want to address something I keep hearing from neighbors because I do think it's worth naming out loud. The reaction that I hear from neighbors when it's not distinct opposition is some version of well it's better than it could have been. I understand that in instinct but I want to name what's actually happening in that sentence because it does have a name. It is a well doumented negotiating pattern

sometimes called the door in the face technique.

Open with a scope so large everyone expects it to reject it. We put all our might into rejecting it. That was that 200 unit proposal. Then come back with something smaller and our brains register that smaller number as a concession, a compromise, perhaps a gift simply because it's less than the first number that we heard. Whether or not that was anyone's conscious strategy here, the effect is right there in your

own staff report. 30 meetings across two years. This proposal went through several rounds of density reduction.

Each round probably felt like real progress to the people in that room. But the number in front of you tonight is still 23.63 units per acre against a baseline of 4.25.

Better than an earlier draft and right for this neighborhood are two completely different questions and only one of them is actually yours to answer tonight.

I don't say anyone I don't say any of this to suggest that anyone here is acting in bad faith. But for years, this community has watched decisions here lean further. really appreciate you coming.

Thank you for your time.

Miss Martier, do you want to speak?

Okay, thank you. Then Walt Stone will be next. After Mr. Stone is Terry Browning.

Good evening again, ladies and gentlemen, mayor, council members. Um, [gasps] I'm back. Uh, I'm going to keep this quick because I think people are getting worn out and we've been here for a while. Um, simple question.

Why is a resoning even being considered?

Who's asking for that? Because it's not the people.

So the I think the simple matrix for you all to be thinking about is because this has kind of been the theme for tonight.

When are decisions being made for the the people, the public for their protection, their welfare, their benefit versus individuals, select groups, folks that may have [sighs] uh influence or persuasion.

What are you looking at when you make these kind of decisions? Therefore, my question would be for this council, what is your justification for reszoning? As this woman so well spoke before, there's a zoning for a reason. Somebody established that. Apparently, it's to preserve protect that area because it's that's a very dense area. I don't know if it's the densest in Virginia Beach,

but it certainly looks like it. I have lived there. I bought a a house there at in 1989.

uh lived there for a long time until we moved. Um we have a lot of feelings about that area. Some of you are very familiar with my feelings about what happened with Pleasure House Point. I will not get into that. I will just say this. What I heard earlier tonight about the uh assistance of managing storm water flow flow and great positive impacts on the Linhaven uh river and the pleasure or the natural park. I'm not

sure whether there isn't any evidentiary fact supporting that. Sounds good. Uh things that sound good are not always correct. My question though is is very simply this. Why are we reszoning something like this for the benefit of a few?

I think it's very clear the reason for the request versus the benefit of the entire community and the welfare of that that neighborhood.

That's what you have to decide tonight.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Jerry Browning.

After Mr. Browning is Brad Martin, mayor, vice mayor, and council, I'm Terry Browning. I'm the owner of the property adjacent to the property in question this evening. I'm not here for or against it. I'm here to just tell you how I feel about the development and what's going on on Shore Drive. My family in 1912 developed Ocean Park.

They were the original developers. All these paper streets that are in this neighborhood were all owned by my relatives. We've owned uh Brandings Marine has been a business there since uh 1955.

We've been on shore. There's been a boat dealership that we're in on Shore Drive since 1962. If I tried to build that dealership today, it would never happen.

Uh, a lot of us own property and we were trying to develop them and I understand the people that are against this and stuff, but they have to understand too that us owning property have to do something with it, have to develop it.

And because of all the new things that are required, storm water management, traffic studies, I didn't know a lot about this until I was involved in the first project that this applicant had asked for. I didn't know there was so much involved in it. And I hear some things said this evening that they don't know what process they do have to go through to get these things done. Um, I

don't particularly want residential next to me of any kind because residential next to a business usually doesn't work very well. But I have been there and all that property that's behind us used to be sand dunes and live oak trees. You know, we're going to have change and we have to be a little more thoughtful about people that are have been paying taxes and owning property. It's not

going to make everybody happy, but we also have to be a little understanding.

And I have never seen so much hate and anger about somebody trying to do something. You know, I don't hate anybody and most of the people that are up here speaking tonight. I've been in Ocean Park and my son used to live on Clipper Bay behind the boat dealership.

But I just want you to be fair and think about this and think about everybody's feelings about it. But I do feel like because they're property owners, they do have some kind of right to develop their property and do it in a manner that is cost effective. They can't do a project and make everybody happy and make money.

So I just, you know, wanted to say this this evening in front of them. And I'm sure there's probably some people out there not liking me very much right now, but I'm a third we're a third generation boat dealership and we're here on Shore Drive and we've been there for a very long time and uh thank you for your time.

The next speaker is Brad Martin. After [clears throat] Mr. Martin is Lori Hughes.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, members of council, and city manager Du Haney. My name is Brad Martin, and I live in Bay Lake Pines offshore Drive with my wife Tracy and our son Henry, just a half mile from this property. Despite some official or volunteer roles, I serve in our city.

I'm here today only in my capacity as a Virginia Beach citizen, but Tracy did tell me I could speak for her for three minutes.

We are neighbors along Shore Drive and we stand in full support of the proposed multif family mixeduse development at Marlin Bay. I think it is commendable that you have a project like this and an applicant like the Mccleski team where the effort was put in to listen to the community and the city planners.

Modifications to the project were made in order to check most if not all of the boxes regarding the project design and generally satisfy a great majority of the stakeholders and neighbors. From the aspirational larger original project including a right-of-way closure to the outreach to local civic leagues to working with your great staff in the planning department to the 8:2 and 9:1 supportive votes at the Bayfront

Advisory Committee and the planning commission. This applicant did the work and your process worked.

Now, you all know that I could talk storm water and flooding into next week, but I really just want to tell you that as a resident in the Bayfront Corridor, I'm looking forward to something different on this property than the existing fenced gravel boat trailer parking lot. As for the opposition to this project, you've heard some viewpoints that the number of units, the traffic, the flooding hazard, and the

building height are not compatible with the surrounding neighbors. Much the same that you've heard just about every other resoning or use permit application that have come to you recently for approval.

I even heard one opposing speaker at the planning commission refer to the windong apartments project recently redeveloped on pleasure house and say that the worstc case scenario predictions quote have largely come to pass unquote. I'm not [snorts] sure what predictions that speaker was talking about, but in the days since that planning commission meeting, I have routed my morning commute directly past

Windsong. And I can tell you that I have never waited more than one light cycle at the traffic light on Pleasure House to cross Shore Drive. This morning at 78 a.m. I was the fourth car in line at the stoplight on Shore Drive.

[snorts] I would suggest that you have tangible examples whether it's windong the pearl apartments at great neck the society apartments at great at Burton station and several others where the worstc case scenario predictions never come to pass.

You've been making and you continue to make sound decisions for the betterment of the city. I encourage you to continue your successful track record by approving this project tonight. Thank you all for your time and your service to our city. Thank you.

The next speaker is Laura Hughes. After Miss Hughes is Danny Murphy.

[snorts]

Hello again. Um I have lived in Ocean Park for 20 years and I would say no one's against development, right? Everybody here probably lives in a house. What we're against is overdevelopment and over is clearly very subjective.

However, no matter what neighborhood you're talking about, it should be construed from the viewpoint of the people who have to live there with those decisions. Don't ask me about what's going on in Green Run because I don't live there. Don't ask Green Run what we should build in my neighborhood because they don't live here. And I think that's a really important distinction. I do find it a little concerning that there

has been a lot of discussion about issues with VBDA and we look at the I believe the applicant's attorney is the chair of the VBDA.

Um no conflicts there whatsoever and the planning commission seems to approve anything as long as it is submitted by someone who gives a great deal of campaign donations. Again, no conflicts there.

[gasps] I was a also concerned to hear that flood mitigation meant water was going to run right out onto Marlin Bay, especially after all of you supported destroying 5,000 trees in my neighborhood.

I've been doing a little research and apparently cut it clearing all of that can make catastrophic floods up to 18 times more frequent with effects lasting over 40 years. In 40 years I'll be over a hundred years old. I won't be able to run away from the water as fast. So, I'm pretty much screwed there. Um, [snorts] you people need to listen. Once again, you need to listen to the people

that live there. I don't know who was neutral on this, but I have not spoken to a single neighbor who is in favor of this project. This creates way too much density. And if McCuskey wants to build something, that's great, but let him do it within the zoning that exists.

Whenever we buy our property, we know that zoning exists and we have to live within that. Unfortunately, only some people have to live within that.

You can change that.

Danny Murphy.

Want to ask?

And Mr. Murphy, as you're coming up, I have you down as Ocean Park Civic League President. Are you representing them tonight? Good evening.

Okay, Mayor Dyer, council and members Duhaney.

Um, first of all, can we all smile just a little bit here? The tension in the room is killing me. And um, I I just want to tell you my name is Danny Murphy. I serve as the president of the Ocean Park Civic League. If any of you ever want that job, you can have it.

Okay. Um, second of all, I just wanted to say that um, I want you to understand why the civic league hasn't taken a position on this.

Over the past 5 years of my tenure, this site and the parcels around it have been the focus of rede redevelopment um, proposals. The civic league and the community strongly oppose those.

Overwhelmingly strongly opposed those um those earlier plans. Um, some of you may recall, I've sat down with a number of you when that first project was going through. Our community is genuinely divided. Um, I know there was some talk about our recent meetings. I can tell you from uh our meetings in June and July where our normal residents show up, our members show up. There was division there. There was no consensus

whatsoever. Um, I'm not saying there weren't people strongly in favor or opposed. I'm just saying there was no overwhelming consensus. Um, see, our bylaw bylaws charge the league to inform residents of issues of neighborhood importance to provide a form of discussion of concerns and to promote participation of public affairs like this hearing. Um, we've done that work over the past five

years. The civic league has constantly brought up discussion about these parcels. We have met with key stakeholders. We have had developer presentations. We have hosted community open houses for this. I want to thank the planning department especially deputy director Bohook and also um the planner Coleman for coming out and spending an evening with us and discussing this and answering questions

because the one thing I can tell you the Q&A section session was priceless.

I also want to thank the developers, the McCcluskey Association, for addressing the concerns of the past and working to mitigate them where they could and seeking input throughout. The engagement record is real. um pre-application meetings, concept reviews, community openhouse, and adjustments that came from the Civic League and the Bayfront Advisory Commission, including building

height, uh the pet relief station, and also permeable um ground covers.

You have the BAC recommendation of approval and also the planning recommendation of approval. We respect that work, but the decision is now yours. Redevelopment is inevitable, necessary, and welcome. We ask that you evaluate this application against the long-term vision of the city that has already been adopted, the comprehensive plan, the shore drive overload district, the shore drive corridor plan, and

design guidelines.

And that this project not set a president, that each development going forward should be reviewed under those considerations.

There are concerns we all share.

Whatever our position, if you approve this application, we ask that they be written into the conditions and profers.

First, scale and density and massing.

Yes, it reaches nearly the 248 per acre as the application and there are variances for the balconies set back on Clipper Bay from 30 to 15 ft. The developer lowered the height on the step down next to the town houses. There's welcome changes for us. Second, neighborhood character and corridor alignment. Does it fit within Ocean Park's identity and historical coastal community? Does it align with the city's

adoption of the shore drive corridor plan? It does.

Third, parking and traffic. There is a tradeoff to have under building parking and the height of the building. It does allow for more parking and should help with the spillover possible onto Marlin Bay. That is one of our concerns. Also, traffic that they Marlin Bay will need to have that light rettime so that individuals won't be you know uh piled up there and they will be able to get

out in a timely fashion. The last thing I want to talk is about storm water. I know there has been some discussion about storm water and whether that's needed. Um I am confident in our ability to um evaluate the storm water and ensure that there is no runoff from that um building if it is developed as proposed. Um we know that we've been through this process and that's what um planning department will do.

Um my last issue um is about the pleasure house point and it is a crown jewel of Virginia Beach.

Uh the re the natural area is certainly one of the best protected secrets of Virginia Beach and we just ask that you prot maintain um and protect the habitat and trails that are part if there is an improv. Whatever you decide tonight, we ask that residents continue to have the full and fair opportunity to be heard and that the commitments made throughout this tra process travel with the

property. Thank you and thank you for your service.

Thank you.

Uh we have two WebEx speakers, Mayor.

The first is Kim Mayo. Miss Mayo, you are unmuted and may begin. [snorts] Hello. Hello. Good evening again, Kim Mayo. Thank you everyone for coming out.

I serve on my District 9 civic board and oppose this upzone.

I do support the developer building 10 to 12 units as allowed by right. Uh Mr.

Browning, this is not all about you. The location is in a flood-prone area with storm water issues and council is party to a condemnation lawsuit along the shore drive corridor owned by the same developer along the along Linhaven Drive as reports state. How is this good for Pleasure House Point? I grew up in the country but have lived in the Shore Drive corridor for most of my life. My

husband's family in the region since the American Revolution. I have also asked Councilman Schulman to recuse himself.

Uh he has taken related campaign contributions, pushed the bulldozing of over 5,000 trees, Miss Hughes stated, and publicly acknowledged working with this big developer for a substantial upzone. I've already mentioned the June 8th District 9 falsified meeting video, and I'd like to ask Danny, how do you protect the trails? you just mentioned dumping this type of density and what trails are

there even left at Pleasure House Point.

Um, all of the above shows a lack of citizen focus and integrity. Again, let the developer follow the existing rules and build 12 homes or so. I ask that you defer this vote on the up zone as Martha very eloquently summarized. Thank you.

Mr. Mayor, may I speak to the u issue of the conflict, please, and those allegations?

Would you mind, sir?

Yeah, go ahead. And um there were um and thank you. Uh there were a couple constituents who had asked whether it was appropriate for me to um decide in this application and uh raise the possibility of me having a conflict.

I take those sorts of things very seriously. And so I did ask our city attorney's office uh to prepare a conflicts analysis. Um I would just like to ask Mr. Styles if you can share the fact that um I do not have a conflict as your office determined.

Folks, please Mr. Shman, we uh took the emails that you had received and the facts that were contained in those emails and conducted analysis under the Virginia Conflict of Interest Act. And based on the information available to us, we do not find that you have a conflict requiring your disqualification for participating in this matter.

Thank you, [snorts] sir.

Thank you. Okay, next speaker.

Yes. The next speaker by WebEx is Ronald Marsh. Miss Marsh, you are unmuted and may begin.

Yes. Good evening again. Um, let me just say the voters will decide if there was a conflict of interest on this vote because we are still very upset about Pleasure House Point and [snorts] the 5200 trees, the ordinance that Councilman Schulman pushed through. Um, I am asking you to not upzone this to 52 luxury. Let's say luxury condos for somewhere between 300 and 324 residents with 162 bedrooms on 2.2 acres

with the best result for the city is big profits for the developer. It makes all the citizens and everyone in the neighborhoods have to suffer with tighter parking and more traffic and deal with less so that a developer can overdevelop its zone for 10 10 uh condos. So build the 10 condos. An extra 42 condos significantly increases both the road traffic, the parking issues, and the title flood risks. Roughly five

times more units means five times more residents, cars, and trips, worsening congestion, especially on local roads.

We've all seen the title flooding photos that I sent you from last October where people are in hip waiters. more buildings add imperous surfaces and roof pavement and reduce the water absorption.

Um in addition to the parking shortages because there's only going to be 104 parking spaces for potentially over 300 residents.

Everyone is going to have to deal with double parking, illegal parking, towing, making roads that aren't parked on parkable. It's a huge problem. So, what we want to do is make sure that everyone understands luxury condos for 750,000 to a million dollars do not help us increase our affordable housing. We also have fire and emergency services challenges like they did with areas on the bay where four units burned down

because of the fire on the four units.

Um, Shore Drive and vehicle deaths are up. We have an analysis by our own city that says Shore Drive is already operating beyond its intended capacity.

According to a staff report, it carries approximately 40,500 average daily trips. And despite the estimated roadway capacity of only 36,900 ADT, it's in a flood water area that is prone to flooding. And where is the environment?

We appreciate your participation.

[clears throat] Miss Murphy.

Okay. Mr. Shman.

Miss Murphy, if you would like.

I'm sorry.

Sorry. Miss Murphy, if you'd like to come up for Okay.

rebuttal.

Good evening. I just wanted to point out a few things to you as far as storm water management. Um, you know, don't believe me, believe Karen Forier with Linhaven River Now. And what folks [snorts] don't understand about the process is the first shovel can't go into the ground until a fully designed storm water management facility that does not put any extra water uh post development into

any system and deals with the treatment of the water and the the flow of water.

has been reviewed and approved by your uh public works department through the planning department through the site plan review process. As we've said, the there is no storm water management now on the property. It's compacted gravel.

It sheet flows directly into Shore Drive and Marlin Bay. I believe I was misqued on that, but that's the current conditions. Um this isn't a mixed zone.

It's an attractive project and through their review process, the Bayfront Advisory Commission has indicated that it does comply with the Shore Drive quarter guidelines, your staff, your professional staff has concurred with that. We've addressed all of the items.

I think Mr. Murphy um got one of them wrong. We've addressed all of the items that the Bayfront Advisory Commission recommended. The one that we do not have a final decision on is the permeable pavers. That's something that the my client is uh reviewing and and continues to look into what kind of technology might be available. Um the city does have a plan to utilize Clipper Bay Drive

um which the city already owns. There's a a street there that would be used, my understanding, for uh for the pump station. There has been meaningful public input over the last couple of years, probably more than on any other project that I've been involved in to correct an inaccuracy. The property is zoned PDH1. Now, PDH1 gets a treatment um that would be A12 as far as residential, which would mean 24 units.

However, PDH1 is tied to a master plan.

The master plan for this part of Ocean Park cannot be located. So, it's really not clear other than that A12 what the plan was. Um, but this was part of that overall plan. Um, traffic, as your staff report indicates, there's a modest increase. U Marlin Bay is a four-lane signalized intersection and traffic will have to come out through Marlin Bay because those are the only entrance

points. The property owner has owned this property for over 50 years uh and has worked very closely with the community to try to find a development that does fit within the neighborhood and we believe that they've done uh a good job with that. Want to say the the quiet part out loud. The beach the oceanfront or the ocean park beaches pleasure house point are city amenities.

They are the crown jewels, but they are the jewels for all the citizens of the city of Virginia Beach to visit. Happy to answer any questions.

No.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have a few questions for staff before.

Um, uh, would, uh, I see LJ Hans said there were a couple storm water issues that were raised, including the pump station. Um, sir, I'd like for you, if you don't mind, to come and answer a couple questions with regard to that. Um my understanding is a short drive phase 4 um which has obviously been on the books for way too long. Um and over the last three years, thank you council.

We've gotten more money in the last three years than any time in the last 10 for that project. Um that's moving along. Uh but as part of that project, there's a preliminary uh engineering report with a traffic study or the I guess master transportation plan in that in that area. And then there was a master drainage study that um identified the need for a pump station somewhere in that vicinity. Um it can you speak to

that and whether um whether it's crystal clear where where that pump station has to be? Is it this property? Are there other properties potentially that we could look at for citing that pump station?

Yes, sir. Thank you. Uh so as as part of the short drive phase 4 project uh there was drainage improvements that are proposed as part of that just as similar to what we're doing on phase three on the other side of the Lesnar Bridge. Uh there's also a storm water master drainage study done for the entirety of this uh ocean park area and it also calls for a pump station. So both pro

both of those studies are calling for a pump station combined. Uh we don't have the final answer on how how exactly big that pump station is, but we know that it's a it's a significant station. Um we do not however have a fully funded project. Neither one of those projects are fully funded and and to that end. We are not ready to go to right-of-way acquisition on either one of those projects at this point. We have

tentatively identified a couple of locations as was pointed out. This location was initially identified as as one of the areas that we that we looked at. Uh the ride ofway that is directly adjacent to this is also an area under consideration. And there are some other areas that I'd rather not name because I think that could jeopardize the city's negotiation uh strategy moving forward.

Um are also identified as potentials.

Okay. Um, would you say it's not uncommon to have the need for a public facility in a general location, but have those details not be readily ascertainable until later in the planning process?

Well, certainly as we move through the design process, that's something that we're going to want to nail down sooner rather than later. Um, and public works has no we have no opinion on this resoning.

That is not our role. In the event that this resoning goes through, we would like to talk with with the owners of the property and see if there's the ability to flex in one way, shape, or another, but we don't have that down because we're not that far into the development process.

Would uh questions about uh traffic, I guess, and parking along Marlin Bay be better directed to our planning director, or can you feel those? Well, I I can I can certainly comment to the fact that staff did comment on on the fact that Marlin Bay is a four-lane road. It is signalized at the intersection with Shore Drive. Uh adjustments would need to be made to the to the signal. Um but we do not

anticipate that there would be other major improvements at this point.

Okay. I may have our planning director remind me. Um, but the the Mon Bay is a divided road with a median that was originally supposed to have accommodated somewhere in the neighborhood of 1770 homes. Uh, but for the fact that we were able to acquire Pleasure House Point under uh I guess uh a failing economy uh 12 years ago, would that would that be correct to say?

Okay. All right. Thank you. I do have a question for Miss um [snorts] Miss Warren, our planning director, if you don't mind. Um I there there have been some concerns about um you know whether whether or not uh 824 uh 24 units per acre um whether or not this particular project u comports with the um comp plan um it being suburban focus area one mix zone under the short drive corridor plan

and design guidelines. Can you can you discuss what um I guess the maximum allowable or preferable density is in those planning areas? And um and then also if you wouldn't mind address that.

Um I believe Miss Murphy did, but if you could confirm that the um storm water management plan for this property would uh ordinarily like any all any other property be done um in connection with the site plan review process.

Yes, council member. So just starting with that one, any type of storm water review is going to come through our site plan review process where it's routed out to the various departments and as she said uh it cannot increase water flow. It's got to handle its own water flow and cannot make any of that worse.

Okay.

Worse than it is right now. Um and then uh for the zoning piece that would be as you know this is going to a the request is for a B4 Shore Drive corridor and that would be a 244 units per acre that is requested and permitted here. It's a 2.2 acre site.

That would be 52.8 eight units that are permittable and they are asking for 52 units here.

Thank you, Miss Warren. I appreciate it.

Mr. Mayor, I'm ready to make a motion and then I'd like a few minutes to discuss um happy to hear what my colleagues have to. Um well, I'm going to make a motion to approve approve the project and um after a second, I'll folks after I get a second, I'd like a couple minutes.

We have a second.

I second.

You have a [snorts] second.

I second.

Okay, we have a second. Go right ahead.

Okay. Thank you. Um, sometimes this job is not easy. Um, I will I will Folks, can we please show respect?

We we listen to you all all night. I just I I mean I I'm um if you would just let me talk, I'm I'd appreciate it. Um the best thing please folks the best thing that that I can do is I tell I I can tell you that um from the very beginning uh three and a half years ago and even before when um when I saw the prior iteration of this

project and I knew that had I been successful in my campaign for office I would have had to have dealt with it sooner or later. Um 227 rental units was never appropriate. um was never something that I would be ever be able to get behind. Um I think this project is a good example of local government working exactly the way it's supposed to. Um the proposal before us is not the

same as it was 5 years ago, let alone three and a half years ago. I worked very hard to make this better, smaller, and more compatible with what with what residents want. [sighs] It has changed significantly because residents spoke up. The civic league got involved. Our city staff came and helped and worked out issues and the applicant was flexible, responsive, and um they listened. Um the proposal I originally

saw in uh 2023 involved substantially greater density. [sighs and gasps] Um as I said 227 apartment rental units um across multiple parcels, borrowed density, a parking garage um and even a street closure. Um that is ab absolutely not what's before us tonight. Tonight we're considering a single parcel, 52 ownership units, um no parking garage, no borrowed density.

um and no street closure um and a project that fits within actually underneath the allowable density um for for that planning area. [snorts] Um it's worth noting and it has been noted a couple of times that um because redevelopment um is required to meet current standards um and we have the strictest standards in the state um we you know water right now just as as Dave mentioned just flows

right off that property. It's mostly impervious surface right into our river and right into our natural area. So this this proposed development would uh be required to retain and treat and manage water on site before it ever got to the river. So um that in my mind represents an environmental improvement to this property than what exists now. Um I know I know, believe me, I know there are

residents um who um still oppose this application and I completely respect that. Um these types of decisions are sometimes just plain not easy. Um but my responsibility isn't to ask whether there's unanimous approval for this application. Um if that were the standard, very little would get approved in our city. My responsibility is to deter determine whether this proposal is consistent

um with the underlying zoning um our adopted plans, whether it respects the surrounding community and whether it strikes an appropriate balance between preserving community character and thoughtful investment. Um and for those reasons, I think it does meet that standard and I do support this application.

Okay. Anybody else want to speak? Okay, let's open the vote.

This is a motion to approve.

The vote is open.

By vote of 10 to one, you have approved the application.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Uh moving on. Okay. Uh to the next one. Guess item four.

Okay.

Craig and April Dean Craig uh Craig Dean for conditional use permit raise short-term rental at 513 20th Street District 6.

Mr. Dne Craig Dean the applicant. Go ahead sir.

Okay.

Good evening.

Good evening.

We're over here. Huh?

These are the applicants, Craig and April Dean.

Okay. Good evening. Go right ahead.

Um for uh 513 uh 20th Street, um I was putting in uh for application for res to allow us uh to do Airbnb there. Um [snorts] we did the other side. Uh, I understand there was a question about parking um for and we have lots of parking when there's room for five spaces in the back already with parking. And when I bought the property approximately 30 years ago, we

had parking in the front of it uh also, but I didn't need it. So, I planted grass there. Um, took out the stones there and put grass there because I didn't need that much parking. Um, so they were concerned about the uh traffic going up and down the half street and when you have Airbnb it means there's nobody in there living you know the nine months off season. So there's

the traffic would be the exactly same if somebody was living there, which they do in the offseason. And we've had the property for 30 years and everybody's parked in that one spot, three, four or five cars in the back that's on this on the street. And um I just, you know, we could open up the driveway in the front on 20th Street again if that was require if that's required.

I haven't heard one complaint about traffic on there in 30 years. Um so um I just respectfully request u that you pass this application.

Okay. Any questions worth is there any opposition to this application?

Yes.

We have a speaker.

Okay.

Okay. Thank you sir.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Sarah Welch.

Thank you, mayor and council people. Um, my name is Sarah Welch and I live on 20 and a half street at 522.

I live um just down the street from the three proposed short-term rentals on the agenda. This is one of three. I stand in opposition of the short-term rentals and conditional use permits um because of the density of existing short-term rentals on our small street.

Our streets already active with several homes that are either active as legally permitted or some that are unlemitted.

um at 5 52420 and a half. There's 35 houses between Mediterranean and Baltic on the north side of 20th 20 and a half and the south side of 21st Street as well as Baltic and Mediterranean avenues. And this particular um owner has one of them on Mediterranean. With the current number of short-term rentals, we've had situations of loud tenants, parking issues, lawns unkempt.

with the new Atlantic Park, which I am in complete in favor of. It's a great venue. Been there. Our street, the alleyways become more of a thoroughfare.

Um, and the STR at um, 2003 Mediterranean when you're pulling out from Mediterranean, from 20 and a half to Mediterranean with all the parking, it's very difficult to see to get down um Mediterranean.

um regularly during the 100 days of summer.

There's just parking issues um on move in and out move out days. I believe based on the code of one parking space per bedroom, there's not ample parking in the situation for all three of these addresses. It causes even greater parking issues. And I personally experienced a situation where the house next to me, they came and asked if they could pay me to park my driveway. Last weekend, I had someone come and ask,

they were renting. I was watering my flowers and they said, "Where do I park?"

There's a garage at 19th Street, I guess. I don't know. Um, I moved to Virginia Beach in my house in 2019. I purposely bought this house in this neighborhood as it was single family.

Um, there's a lot of other places in Virginia Beach I could have bought and I didn't because there's a lot of investor real estate. Um, again, I'm a homeowner on a small street. I'm concerned about the potential situation of investor reality. Um, I really want this council to consider declining the these three conditional use permits and think about a density cap for our city so that no

one street gets overtaken by investor real estate.

Thank you. Any questions for the applicant or the speaker?

Okay. Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you. Uh, Deans, if you would like to come back up for a rebuttal.

Um, [snorts] I'm fully aware again about about the parking there. We have five spots in the back. There's only a total of four bedrooms in the duplex, but we have a space for five in the back also, you know, in the back already, which is on 20 and a half street. I've been there for the 30 some years I've had it. But I also could have opened up the driveway

in the front for more parking, which I think the green lawn looks better than than, you know, asphalt there. But I can uncover it and put more parking in there. But there's no more traffic with Airbnb there or somebody living there. That's exactly the same.

Same. Whether it's short or long-term rental, it's exactly the same amount.

No more people, no more cars, nothing changes. And we've never once uh while we've been doing this have one complaint by any neighbors.

Okay.

Thank you. Thank you Mr. Mrs. Dean and Sarah especially for waiting this long.

Um as just was said in the last application is not an easy job because you all have done I think you're a respected STR owner and so and this is not my motion here in a minute was not against you all at all. As was said previously and I've said previously in informal meetings that the density is just was said density of STRs on 20th Street. There are 11 approved conditional use permits on 11 on 20th

Street and 335 STRs have been approved. The bulk of the STRs, 335, have been approved and they are in this area of the resort area, Atlantic and Pacific Avenue, but also 20th, 20 and a half, 21st, excuse me, [clears throat] 22nd. And your application number three was approved earlier on consent agenda. So, we're going to be discussing, we the planning commission and eventually council in

September will be discussing a map the overlay where we we I'd like to see us reduce the overlay to 21st [snorts] and 22nd Street and reduce it 20th and 20th and a half out of the overlay area. So, in advance of that, that's why I'm moving for a denial. The last thing about this is that as much as I do respect STRs and the business and entrepreneurship of STRs, we are we are

in a housing crisis. As we say, we need more houses for families. And so more STRs means less houses for families to live in. This is an Old Beach Resort community. I've been to the resort uh civic league many times. This is of concern to the residents in that area.

So that these are the reasons why I move for a denial. Thank you.

Okay.

Okay. Do we have a second?

Second.

Any other discussion?

Okay. Motion for denial.

Okay. Stacy, I sympathize with the fact that there are so many STRs in this and I and I will look forward to having a discussion about uh reducing the overlay in the district.

But I hate being in the position of picking winners and losers. And I feel as though that's what we're trying to do here. And you know, we've approved many, many of these, maybe too many of these, but it seems as though this is where we're going to draw a line. And um I'm having a hard time doing that. I don't I don't think it's our job to pick winners and losers.

And the only thing I would say to that, it doesn't increase density of people or cars or anything. We rent the families offseason every year. Um, kids, professionals etc.

And, uh, the same amount of vehicles, same vehicles, same amount of long-term or short.

In fact, I would say there's less people during Airbnb than there is when we have a family in there. Um and so I don't I don't see it uh increasing density at all um or traffic for that matter.

Okay. Anybody else? Okay. Let's open the vote.

So the vote is to deny. Correct.

That is correct.

Okay. Thank you.

By a vote of 8 to three, this application has been denied.

All right. Thank you.

You guys have a tough job. I get it.

No. By the way, thanks for bringing the fireworks back.

Thank you.

Really ending on the evening on a positive note.

Thank you.

I appreciate two more.

Okay. Um item number five, um Adar Jane Shells and Pearls LLC for conditional use permit for a short-term rental at 511 20th Street in a half street district.

Britney Marshall, are you representing the applicant?

I am. I'm the authorized representative for the applicant with Host My Home LLC.

Thank [clears throat] good evening. Thank you all for sticking with us this long. I know it's been a long night. I appreciate what you all do and I am taking a more diplomatic approach. So, no issues here. Um, but we are asking um for your approval for this property. Um, I work for Host My Home LLC. That is a short-term um rental or just midterm rental um property management company.

Um, with that company, we do manage and maintain 85 properties. Um, obviously within that number of the 300 plus that you all mentioned. Um, I do want to touch on some specifics. I know that we did have um, you know, some previous speakers that had some concerns. Um, the one thing I do want to address is my title with the company. I am a property inspector and compliance assistant. And

so, um, with that, I am able to speak more of being on the grounds, uh, with these short-term rentals. Um, this unit specifically right now has a 30-day tenant. We are not illegally operating as an STR as we did prove um, before um, amongst the planning commission. Um, the parking is substantial. It holds um, 10 occupants. This specific one holds 10 occupants and it has uh, four parking

spots. Um, it could hold up to six cars depending on the size. Um, I do want to speak on it being um, properly managed as far as ring cameras, noise aare systems. We do not allow lastm minute or late night bookings. um the employees um that the employees that are there are within a 8 to 10 minute response time and I can guarantee that because I live about 7 and 1/2 minutes and I would be

the respondee if there was an issue um that needed to be responded to.

Um there's no parties allowed. The house and beach rules are clearly posted not only during booking but inside of the home for reference. Um the signs are visible from the street and there are direct phone numbers that are given to neighbors and authority for contact if needed um during any type of events. Um the short-term rentals are inspected fully as far as grass um parking availability maintenance and

management. They are um inspected before and after each booking and during if necessary. We have the ability the ability to restrict access to a unit in an event that we have a belligerent or um an unighborly individual um renting from us at that time which has not been an instant but we do have the ability to restrict access in real time um for those reasons. Um I also want to speak

on the fact that um the people that we rent to they're they're not partygoers.

They're not young individuals. They're usually employees or families that are here to see loved ones in the Hampton Road area, which prefers maybe an ocean view or um a more accommodable stay for um their family size um children, pets, things like that. So, we do not have, like I said, late or last minute bookings. Each one of our um guests go through a vetting process for this. Um

and I did just want to touch on these because I know that these were brought up as concerns. Uh parking is not allowed on the street at all and these um parking is visible from the Ring cameras that we have managing um these properties as well. Like I said, these homes are able to accommodate enough vehicles for the amount of guests that we allow.

Okay.

Miss Welch, do you want to come forward again or pretty much the same thing or We have Yes.

Okay. Thank you.

[clears throat] Welcome back.

Thank you. Um, so this h this house is right next door to the house that just went previously. So it would have been 1311 and 509 will be next. Just so everybody realizes there's three right in a row that are being requested. And as far as the parking goes, um this particular, um 509 and 511 is a quad, and there's two parking spots per location. So, I'm not sure where 10

parking spots came from, but for one space per bedroom, this could only be a two-bedroom home to accommodate what the parking is that's actually at the at the building. So, um, again, parking issues is our big concern and the traffic and just the fact that they aren't neighbors. Um, they aren't part of the neighborhood. They're transient. They come and go and so, um, I would prefer to have neighbors.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, uh, for waiting all night to come down and speak for your application.

Should the applicant get three minutes for rebuttal?

Thank you.

Um, I know there's no images for you all to see and we'll work on getting you those images, but um, I can and after just checking myself on our um, app that we use to manage our properties, I can guarantee that it is a quad um, as she spoke and there is a unit that does have those two spaces, but it is not either of the units that we are asking um, for

approval on. Also, the unit that she's speaking of that allows those two sparking two parking spaces has um a reduced occupancy. So, there's not eight to 10 guests that can stay in those units specifically. In these in this unit that I'm speaking of right now and the one I'll speak of um next, they hold um a higher occupancy and they do have the appropriate parking being that they have um two spots in the front, two

spots in the back. And that's if you're talking, you know, vans, trucks, F-150s.

If you're talking twodoor Hondas, sedans, things like that, you are able to get four to five vehicles comfortably um in that parking space.

Okay. Worth.

Okay. Thank thanks thanks everyone for waiting. This is the last well next to the last application. One more after this. But I won't go through what I just said on the previous application. You you know where I stand on on this. This will is however 20th and a half street.

So it's a half street, not a 20th or a 21st. So the half streets are smaller.

They're not as wide. They're much more compromised for this type of uh land use. Uh there's five on this street and I think this is a street where you live on. There's five approved cups uh conditional use permits for STRs before this application. And there's a fifth one, uh, sixth one, excuse me, that's been challenged, uh, for illegal use for a number of years now that, and that's another story. But again, the same

story, density of STRs in really what was what is Old Beach Resort Community, a neighborhood. So, I move for a denial again.

Do I [clears throat] have a second?

Second.

Yeah, Michael.

Uh, thank you. First of all, I just want to acknowledge that it has been a long night and I'm sorry to delay it. Um, I was thinking a lot along the lines as what council member Cummings was was saying um uh at during the previous application and I just feel compelled to clarify my uh position a little bit more with this application and I guess the next one. I I recognize that council

member Ramik is in a very difficult position because I agree that the um uh that the density of uh STRs in this area is probably exceeded its appropriateness.

Um but in my view we should make that policy change um before uh what having the appearance of what could be an arbitrary decision. Of course, that's what we're asked to do in this in this work uh on a regular basis is make a decision that is subjective and that's and that's why people elect us to make these decisions. And so I I recognize that reasonable people can have a

different view of this. But in my view and with great respect to council member Remick and on all the work that I know he has put into this and to the to the neighbors um and and and I have a lot of friends who live in that neighborhood and and and talk about the the density and the proliferation of STRs here. I was also serving on council when um these uh STR [clears throat] regulations

were formulated and um and we did make a proactive decision to include the conditional use permit to um to sort of uh evaluate the appropriateness of the STRs in this neighborhood. I don't know that we contemplated that density at that time and I think a further revision is appropriate and I'll be glad to support it but until that time I feel like it's uh unnecessarily arbitrary to

make that delineation in this moment that that there's too much. How do we I I don't have that information before me to know how much is too much. And so that's the basis for uh for my no vote on on this and the other and the other applications. Thank yeah.

So, echoing the same things. Well, one thing I want to apologize to my colleagues. I did not want to be speaking. I want to be done. Um, but I do have a couple questions for the director. Um, the parking is now definitely at a crossroads here of do we or don't we? And I'd like to know your opinion on that.

So, I'm sorry, the question is about the parking.

Yes, ma'am. Do we have enough parking at this place to support the bedrooms?

Yeah, the quad plexes have eight spaces on site as they are required. This unit has two assigned spaces and they are renting two off-site spaces which are.13 miles from a commercial parking lot just down the street.

Okay. So, they got it covered.

Yes.

Yep. Then my next question is planning commission and plan I don't have my book in front of me. How did we vote on the two the two groups planning commission and your in your department?

So there has been a change there's a recommended change to the parking uh that will be coming forward. Correct.

That was last week and then they deferred the other vote which is the boundary adjustment.

Okay. How about the planning commission?

Do you know how they voted on this on this particular one? Walter's in the back. I'm sure he can tell us. 10 to one.

That was great.

In support.

In support. Yes. 10 to one in support.

So again, just to to my two colleagues and obviously respect worth and and the vice mayor, that's not it. But for me and coming from the fire department, we always had you if you have a rule, you either need to change it and then enforce it. You didn't enforce a rule that you didn't or you one that was already there. You didn't really go against it unless you had some something egregious. [clears throat]

that's on us. So, I I'm very much in the fact that I can't I'm not going to play winners and losers and go against you to to the commission or your your department. So, that's why I'll be voting no.

You know, let me just say that STRs have been uh you know, the shadow that has been following us for a number of years.

Sure.

And um you know and I'll tell you what I think the prudent thing because both sides make compelling arguments. This is another another one of those famous King Solomon type decisions and but you know the thing is um you know let me just say you know uh in this kind of thing I usually usually defer to you know to the district person because they're very intimate what's going on.

But by the same token, I agree with Michael and Hutch and Stacy. Uh, you know, we're going to have a serious discussion about this at our upcoming retreat. And, you know, now that we implemented the rules for the STR, now we can, you know, do a critical evaluation uh, you know, to really take a look at how we doing it. But, you know, but, uh, you know, right now, anybody else? Let's, you know, Josh,

Mr. Mr. Mayor, I just wanted to um congratulate the applicants, Representative on a fantastic presentation. You did a nice job. Okay.

Okay. Let's open the vote.

And the vote is to deny.

Correct.

Motion is a motion to deny. Is that correct?

That's correct.

By vote of 8 to three, this application has been denied.

Okay.

And then Britney, if you want to come up for the last application.

Marshall, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have called you Britney. It's Marshall.

Um, it's the same spill. Um, like I said, they're neighbors. Um, and it's pretty much the same thing. Um, like I said, I'm a property inspector and the compliance assistant, and so I'm on the ground, um, every day with these properties, multiple times a day, um, addressing issues. you know, we have the response team, the response time. We do not have any um violations specified to this property. Um we are very

neighborly. We encourage all of our um you know, guest and things like that to sightsee to, you know, entwin with the neighbors and things like that. Um even as far as um maybe some of the neighbors being asked about parking, I would always suggest that they refer back to their booking, you know, um individuals or just to their bookings. But like I said, between um the parking um all of

our compliances and management and things like that, I mean, we pretty much tie up any loose ends being that we are a company. And so we are focused basically on being a pillar of the community and a part of the community.

So we we don't, you know, function illegally and we do not um oppose to any suggestions or anything that can help us, you know, better what we're doing as a company and a part of the community.

Okay.

Thank you.

worth.

Miss Welsh, would you like to come up?

Okay.

I don't have anything really further for the council other than to um say that I appreciate you hearing the density comments that I've made when I've been here before. So, thank you.

Thank you.

Would you like for rebuttal?

We're just going through the procedure here.

Um, I just want to thank you all for your time. Um, I also just want to ask that, you know, in the future that these things are considered. Um, as far as short-term rentals, we do things that are our rentals go to families. Um, Hampton Roads, as you all know, is a heavy populated military area. These families are not properly accommodated by hotel stays when they're here for an extended amount of time. Um and so

that's that's what we pride oursel on doing. Um also I do ask that we are looked at as an individual. I know sometimes that because there is an um in in a personal opinion there's an over fluctuate or over you know amount or saturation of these short-term rentals a lot of times we can be um blocked together or booked in together and instead I ask that we're looked at as an individual um short-term rental company

um what the next short-term rental may have done or what the you know guests at that short-term rental may have done. I ask that it's taken um independent each time because we are separate than the you know previous applicants and other applicants.

Okay. And you know let me say this you know we're going to talk about this at the retreat and the retreats are open to the public and you are an articulate champion of your company and you know you know drop by and and this way you'll have the opportunity to interact with us.

Okay.

And things of that nature you know so I think it would be helpful. Yes. Yes.

Thank you, Mayor and Britney. You've done a great job. You do a great job as management for the STRs that you all have. As does was the the deans, April Dean. Um they're good managers as well.

So, it's very tough and you you are often considered in with others that don't manage the property as well. But I think the same thing as before the density.

This is the same street, five existing, one another that's illegal. Um, I just I'll move for denial. I hate to be Mr.

Denial tonight, but I'll, you know, move for denial. Thank you.

Thank you guys.

Ask me.

Um, I would just like to know how long have you been doing what you do with this.

I actually recently started with this company in um April of this year, but I have been an effective property manager for short-term, midterm, long-term rentals and um underserved communities for over 10 years. So, I'm no stranger to being able to advocate for what we need in our community.

It's positively obvious. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay. And one last question. Um there are three that's been brought up and one person continuously um bring up her problem. Are there any others that have brought this to you, Councilman?

Um we Oh, I thought you were talking to me. Sorry, you you addressed that to me.

Yes. I just want to know. So, I'm glad you did ask that because one person talking about three different units and we always defer it to that council person because they have direct interest or direct on that. So, I'm just asking a quick question. Um, I don't see anybody else but one person for three units. Can you [snorts] explain that a little bit more?

That question is for me. That question is for you.

So, thank you. It's a valid question because uh we did hear from one speaker opposing and I'm not necessarily holding to her at all. I go to the Civic League meeting and the resort beach civic league president is here in attendance as well. The citizens that the community there that own their homes many for decades that is a resort community that's been there for a long time. That

used that's the beach burrow. And so I I don't fault at all short-term rentals being there, but the density now has changed dramatically this community and that's why you're seeing me do this tonight. And I do agree with my council members here that seated on both sides of me. They I we can't be picking winners and losers. Uh it seems arbitrary, but I think we do need to take this up at the retreat and take

this map up and and cut it back. And there are other areas. I've voted for almost I think 90 STRs in the three and a half years here on council. You know, almost 90 STRs in the overlay. So, we voted for a lot. But I hope that answers your question. There are others. They just don't want to come here and wait till almost 9:00 on Tuesday night to express their opposition. There were

were there letters other letters of opposition?

One or two? Maybe.

I should have known that when I made my speech, but I didn't.

[snorts] Okay. Okay.

Oh, she said were you asking for me a response coming from?

There are other letters of opposition.

It looks like we have three.

So, there were others.

Okay, that's good to know. I was just wondering.

Yeah. And I mean, you all have done such a good job at making Virginia Beach attractive and um you know, as far as what you have done. So, it's natural that we are going to become saturated with people who want to come and see the work that you all have done to Virginia Beach. And that's that's where we're at now, you know. So, everyone is wanting to come see what there is to see, what

there is to spend, what there is to do.

And so, naturally, we have to expect, you know, all of those that want to believe their eyes.

Thank you. That's so obvious. And so, this is a great problem to have, right?

You got it.

Thank you.

So, there was there was a motion. And I didn't believe there was a second.

Stacey.

Yeah. Um, ma'am, I just want you to know I don't I hope you don't take this as a personal defeat because in my in my view, you just came here on the wrong night.

You did a great job, but you your timing was bad.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Thank you.

I take nothing personal, everything professional. I appreciate that.

You got it. Okay.

Okay. Okay.

Okay.

There was a motion. I didn't hear a second though.

Okay. Do I have a second?

Second.

Any any other discussion? Okay.

The motion is to deny.

The motion is to deny. The vote is open.

By a vote of 8 to3, this application has been denied.

Okay. Hey, are there any appointments?

[snorts] Yes.

Before I make the appointments, I just wanted to say something briefly if you don't mind. Um, it's been a very long night, but I just wanted to bring to attention. We did something that was on the consent agenda that I think was really special. There was some property uh in district 5 on Upton Drive [clears throat] that's next to the hospice house and we changed that into preservation tonight. So, a lot of

people think we want to develop everything, but we we took a piece of property tonight that could have been developed and we turned it into preservation. So, because it was on the consent agenda, I think a lot of people may not have realized that we did that and I just wanted to bring that to the attention of everyone. Uh, we have a couple of appointments. Uh for the parks and recck commission in district 10 we

have Herbert Woodhead and then for the stop inc uh board we have um Mr. William Curtis. Move for approval.

Second.

Okay. Let's open the vote.

The vote is open.

Mayor May. Thank you. By a vote of 11 to zero, you have appointed those as read by Vice Mayor Wilson.

Okay. Is there any unfinished business?

New business. Thank you all. Appreciate everybody's effort.