City Council Meeting, 8/11/2026

So, Mr. Mayor, members of council, welcome back from recess. The first briefing will be a briefing provided by our IT department. It'll be a briefing on your voting platform system. Right.

So, it's a new system and we're going to brief city council on how to use it.

All right. So, Tia Harrington with the IT department. She's a solutions manager will come and give the presentation.

Cool.

Okay. Hi, my name is Tia Harrington for information technology.

I don't want to.

We can't hear you.

Okay. Is that better?

Okay. Hi, my name is Tia Harrington from Information Technology. I'm here to present on a new voting platform and device upgrade.

The new voting platform will have a new look and feel for council members and for the public. The voting devices will be changing from a Windows device to an iPad. The voting process and procedures will remain the same.

For the motioning and voting process, the process will stay the same where the clerk will still call for the mover and seconder and record them in the system prior to the vote being opened.

Once the clerk opens the vote, the screens shown will show the council. The voting buttons are I, nay, abstain, and absent. Once chosen, the voting buttons will change to the colors to reflect the selected button. I will change to green, nay to red, abstain to yellow, and absent to blue. The vote buttons can be selected by touching the iPad screen.

After the clerk closes the vote, the finding voting results will show to each council member on the iPad.

On the council display screen, the final voting results will have a new look. The screen will display the agenda item, the mover, and the secondary recorded for the item, and the vote summary. The vote summary now displays names only, not your pictures. The names are in order by mayor, vice mayor, and then the council members names are in alphabetical order by last name.

For registered speakers, the chamber's display has a new look. The public will be able to view the agenda item, the name of the current speaker only, and the screen will also have a shows a timer. The timer for the application will not be used. The official timer for speakers will continue to be the timer located on the lect turn.

A new feature within the application is when the application is idle for a period of time or when changes are made to the agenda.

The iPad will need to be refreshed to ensure you are viewing the current agenda and the voting functionality works. The refresh instructions have been placed each council member station at the dis on a reminder card. The steps for refreshing an iPad are find your name in the right corner, select the current meeting, and then click the play button, and these steps will refresh the screen.

Next is a hands-on iPad demonstration.

So, one iPad will show the voting screen prior to the votes being cast, and the second iPad will show the refresh process.

Do y'all have any questions?

How far you going to be so we call you up?

I'll be close.

How do we approach?

Folks, let's things are ordered over here. Rosemary, I take it it's not going to have a computer. It's a touch screen.

That right instead of a mouse.

Well, yours has a mouse, ma'am.

Everybody else's will be a touch screen.

Yes, I like mice.

Okay, Michael. And then Barbara, I'm sorry. Maybe you said this, but I may have misunderstood. When does the system start?

Today.

Today, sir.

I don't understand a thing. No, I'm just kidding.

Um, starts today.

It starts today.

Oh, started today.

One of the things that I I think most of us if not all of us will has observed and and I think it's because of the audio or the hearing in the chamber but the motion and usually the second is almost always not correct being honest and um I think it's just it's my fault.

Well I think it's your fault. I think maybe you can't hear.

You would agree.

Yeah. And so I wonder because this is still verbal then through this, right?

Yes, sir.

But I do think just as an observation that our minutes should more accurately reflect the who made the motion and who made the second. And if you need confirmation confirmation, you know, let us know.

That's not a criticism. It's just an observation. I think maybe we need to be more be more clear when we make those and some of us race to do it, you know, at times. So, not all the time, but um but um anyway, I I think we need a little work on that. Thank you.

Anybody else at this point? Okay, let's let it go. We're getting done.

I'll go away.

Okay.

Like it.

We're going to get an inservice education here for a few minutes, folks.

So, all right. So when the vote opens, click your name in the corner pop up and they'll all be white with this'll either be high or um absor um so you'll have this but every time I'm up there I don't have to do anything other than you push a button. Never had unless I want to troll for the agenda

to select.

Thank you. No, I know.

I will.

Yes. And then you'll just select the one.

I know.

But it'll it'll always take you back motion active motion. Take you back to your lost.

You're fine. I can go over it again.

I can't see it.

So you'll click just your name in the corner here always your name will always be in the very corner to meeting list and then there's a play button right here and it's showing the current active meeting. So you hit the play button and that's how it refreshes but that's only if um the screen goes idle.

So you don't you would do it if the screen goes idle if something gets frozen or spring goes idle for a while and you don't see the um active motion and refresh and it'll show the active.

Why can't y'all just do things simply have to always be doing something crazy?

So how do the buttons actually So Jam Okay.

All right. Gotcha. Thank you.

This is what it look like. It won't be populated. It'll just say you're absent in white. And then once you select um refresh, you'll always press your name in the very corner and you'll say back to the main.

I can show it if you want.

I can't see this.

Okay, that's fine. Um, I can just be able to think button.

Yep. Right up here.

That scares me.

Here. You hit your name in the board.

Does what now?

Go down to the refresh.

Why did you tell us about refresh?

Always brings you back to the other boards and commissions. If anything goes idle for a while and it's not going to come up automatically.

It will come up connect. It's only um too speakers.

Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Oh. Um so

I I was going to say the whether you The system that we have today was basically end of life to where um they were bought by and that's on the system that we were on had to upgrade to something.

A lot of times we push buttons that doesn't happen this time. Um, but when they open the vote, this is what it's going to look like.

And then once Terry closes the vote, this will go away and it'll be back to your agenda, which is over.

Okay. And then when it goes back to the agenda, it'll pop up automatically each time.

Every time she opens the vote. Yes. If you notice that it doesn't, that's where those steps that walk.

Okay. Well, we will muddle through.

You're locked out.

Just click on it.

We'll be there.

for the fall.

Be honest with you, Barbara. I want my deeper umbilical

Is that

okay? Are we about ready to move forward?

Thank you both very much.

You may get some emergency calls.

Yeah.

Dire emergency.

Uhhuh.

Welcome.

Welcome back.

Good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor, members of council. I'm here this afternoon to brief you on the planning items on your agenda this evening, as well as the items for consideration on your August 18th hearing.

So, looking first at your agenda for tonight, there are a total of 13 planning items for consideration.

The first proposal includes two requests for 1805 Kempville Road in District 7.

These requests include a subdivision variance related to lot width as well as a conditional reszoning from conditional B2 community business district to conditional B4 mixeduse district. The 8 and a half acres site is currently developed with a brewery and a historic farmhouse which contains a coffee shop and all of which lies within the Centerville Strategic Growth Area.

The applicant intends to redevelop the site with a total of 251 units spread across two four-story buildings for an overall density of about 29 units per acre. The request includes six detached garage structures located along the north and west property lines and the preservation of the farmhouse which will be used for commercial purposes and potential a amenity and meeting space.

Other amenities include a community courtyard and outdoor space to include a possible dog park. The applicant has profered that for a period of 10 years, 7% of the units, which equates to 18 units, will be allocated as attainable housing um reserved for households earning below 100% of the area median income.

While access to the site will be from Chemsville Road, the zoning ordinance considers the front yard to be the narrowest part of the yard by which legal access to an abuing street is possible, making Luck Lane by definition the legal lot frontage. As such, the minimum lot width and street line frontage is measured along the Luck Lane rightway. Since that frontage is only about 50 feet, a subdivision variance

from the 200 foot lot width and 160 ft street line frontage is required.

Similarly, the applicant is requesting a deviation from the front yard setback from Luck Lane since a 15oot setback is proposed where a 35 ft setback would be required by ordinance. As recommended by the Centerville SGAA, the applicant has pulled the building closer to Chemville Road, locating the parking interior to the site to achieve a more urban character.

As proposed, the development includes a 15 foot wide category 4 landscape buffer along the northern and western property lines where the proposed development abuts the Wood Farm neighborhood.

Additionally, as recommended by the active transportation plan, the proposal includes an 11 foot wide multi-use path along Chemsville Road.

While a development of this size would by ordinance require a total of 463 parking spaces, a parking study was submitted with this request to support a total of 388 spaces. This was based on the existing and proposed sidewalk network in the area, proximity to an HRT stop, which provides regular service throughout the day, and proximity of nearby destinations to include restaurants, a grocery store, and other

retail and service uses. Similarly, a traffic impact study was submitted with this request which indicated the proposed development would warrant the construction of two outbound lanes at the proposed full access point on Chemsville Road as well as right turn lanes at each of the sites two proposed access points again along Chemville Road.

Additional discussion was had at the planning commission hearing regarding the potential need for a signalized crosswalk, specifically a hawk signal from the subject site to the shopping center on the south side of Chemville Chemville Road. Based on that discussion, the applicant added an additional profer to contribute a portion of the funds needed to construct those improvements.

While the buildings will vary in size, at the tallest point, each building has a maximum proposed height of 55 ft 6 in.

The images on the slide here show the proposed materials and color palette.

Two monument signs are proposed along Chemville Road, one at each entrance.

Staff has received seven letters of support related to the proposal and three speakers spoke in support at the planning commission hearing noting um the quality of the proposal, economic benefits, and the reputation of the developer. Staff also received five letters of opposition with speak six speakers in opposition at the planning commission hearing who noted concerns related to traffic impacts to

surrounding neighborhoods, schools, storm water, privacy, and overall impacts to the environment. We also had one speaker sign up in concern who just wanted additional information about the proposed storm water management strategy. Ultimately, the planning commission did vote to recommend approval of both requests by unanimous vote.

Item three is a change in non-conformity request for 1330 Creedle Road in District 6. The subject site currently contains a duplex dwelling which was constructed around 1970 when the property was zoned RD2 residential duplex district. When the property was reszoned somewhere in between 1973 and 1981 to I1 light industrial, the duplex dwelling became a legally non-conforming use. As the applicant intends to add a

detached garage onto the site that will be accessory to that existing non-conforming residential structure, it is considered an expansion to the non-conformity.

The proposed garage will be just under 2500 square ft with a maximum height of 22 feet 5 in. The structure will meet all applicable setbacks and will be over 120 ft from the nearest dwelling. The use is considered compatible in the greater than 75 decel noise zone. Staff has not received any opposition to the request and the planning commission voted to recommend approval.

Item four is a conditional resoning request. This is for 1776 Princess Road in District 2. The applicant is proposing to conditionally resone the property to conditional B2 to allow additional retail uses within the Pongo Square Shopping Center. Existing uses on site include a restaurant, gift shop, hair salon, office, and vet clinic.

There are no physical changes to the building or site proposed with this request. And the applicant has profered out certain uses such as automobile repair garages, car washes, and drive-throughs. And then at the request of the planning commission, they also added um adult bookstores to that prohibited use list. Staff has not received any opposition to the request and the planning commission recommended

approval by consent.

Item five is another conditional resoning request. This is for property located at the southeast corner of Norfick Avenue and Cypress Avenue in district 5.

The applicant is seeking to resone the property which lies within the resort strategic growth area from I1 light industrial to RT3 resort tourist district to permit retail uses on the site. While this site has historically been used for retail, restaurant and other commercial uses, those uses are not typically permitted within the I1 zoning district. No exterior changes are proposed to the building with this request.

A parking study was submitted with the request that supported a reduction in the required parking from 153 spaces to 46 spaces, 13 of which are provided on site and then 33 of which are located in an off-site parking lot on the south side of 10th Street. The study was approved by the zoning administrator due to the site's location within the resort area which has a robust robust pedestrian network, collocation of

complimentary uses with different peak parking demands and then based on observed demand that was included with the parking study. Staff has not received any opposition to this request and the planning commission recommended approval by consent.

Item six is a cup request for a child daycare center at 804 Gamman Road in District 1.

The applicant is seeking to pro to operate a daycare facility for up to 57 children from 6 weeks to 5 years of age within an existing church.

A fully enclosed outdoor play area is proposed with this request as seen in the plan on the slide here. Adequate parking is provided on site to accommodate the proposed use and the hours of operation are listed on the slide. While staff has not received any opposition to this request, it is my understanding that we do have somebody signed up to speak in opposition at the hearing this evening. Planning

Commission did vote to recommend approval of this on their consent agenda.

Item seven is a request for a conditional use permit for 209 First Colon Colonial Road um in District 6.

The applicant has operated a cheer and tumble facility on the site since 2022.

The zoning ordinance does allow indoor recreational facilities up to 7500 square feet as a byite use in the B2 district. However, when that square footage exceeds 7500 square feet, a conditional use permit is required.

Since the applicant is proposing to expand their facility to 10,000 square feet, they had to to do this request before you. There are no exterior changes proposed with this request.

There's adequate parking available on site and the use is considered compatible within both the greater than 75 decel noise zone and the APC1.

We did not receive any opposition and again the planning commission recommended approval by consent.

Item eight is another cup request. This is for a homebased wildlife rehabilitation facility at 4317 Bengun Road in District 9.

The applicant intends to provide care to squirrels, rabbits, and possums within an existing single family dwelling. If the subject request is approved, the applicant will pursue their category 1 wildlife rehabilitator license through the Department of Wildlife Resources.

The applicant is seeking to provide care to no more than eight animals. All of which will either be kept indoors or within an outdoor enclosure area. No modifications to the dwelling are proposed with this request. And as is typical, we have included a condition that there shall not be any animals released on or near the property. Staff did receive one letter of opposition and one letter of concern noting that the

applicant was feeding ducks and squirrels in the neighborhood.

Ultimately, the planning commission voted to recommend approval on the consent agenda.

Item nine is a major entertainment venue sign request for the sports center in district 6.

This is a application from public works and CVB. They're proposing a coordinated wayfinding signage package for the sports center to help improve site identification and event visibility for patrons.

The list on the slide here deal details the specific signage requests which include a monument sign at the corner of Birdneck and 19th Street, three pylon signs, a decorative sign, two interchangeable banner signs, and a number of interchangeable street light and utility pole banner signs throughout the site.

The design and materials proposed are consistent with the overall design and materials of the sports center and will utilize a consistent color scheme, font, and decorative logos except for the banner signs on the street lights and utility poles. Those will the design of those will vary depending on the specific events. While there was one speaker who signed up in opposition at the planning commission hearing, they

were not present at the time this item was heard and ultimately the planning commission did recommend approval by unanimous vote.

Item 10 is a conditional use permit request for a short-term rental at 913 Pacific Avenue, unit B. This is in district 5.

So this is for a two-bedroom unit within the Pacific Place condominiums. Since Pacific Place has the historical parking exemption, only one parking space is required and provided on site.

There are no prior zoning complaints, violations, advertisements, or document documented stays associated with this unit. We have not received any opposition, and the planning commission recommended approval on consent.

Item 11 is another cup request for a short-term rental. This is for 30428th Street, unit 209. This is in district 6.

The applicant is seeking to operate a two-bedroom unit within the Plyurana condominiums. Similar to the previous request, Plyurana does have that historical parking exe exemption, so they only have to provide the one parking space on site.

Again, no prior zoning complaints, violations advertisements or documented stays. We did receive one letter of opposition noting concerns with the amount of short-term rentals in the area and potential impacts to parking. Ultimately, though, the planning commission did recommend approval on their consent agenda.

The final two items on the agenda for this evening. The first um they're text amendments. The first is to section 2303 of the city zoning ordinance. This is pertaining to short-term rental parking requirements.

More specifically, the amendment proposes to prohibit STRs from using public parking within a city-owned parking garage to meet the minimum parking requirements. While there was one speaker registered to speak in opposition at the planning commission hearing, they were not online at the time the item was heard. Planning Commission ultimate ultimately voted to recommend approval of this item by unanimous vote.

All right. The last amendment on the agenda for this evening is for an amendment to section 237 of the sitting zoning or ordinance pertaining to many warehouses within the B4C central business mixeduse district. As many of you may recall, this body approved a tax amendment in December of 2023 to allow many warehouse facilities within the B4C district subject to the approval of a conditional use permit and compliance

with certain form standards. It has come to staff's attention that the language in the ordinance um at the time as it was presented to the city council does not mirror the language that is currently in the ordinance. So, this amendment um is to correct that and would allow many warehouse units on the first floor of a mixeduse building so long as they were not visible or directly accessible from

the right of way or from the building entrance, excuse me. Staff has not received any opposition to this request and the planning commission voted to recommend approval by an 83 vote.

Sir, yes. I thank you for sharing that because there was one thing I was going to bring up to do that people have contacted me you know to do the best and showing up for so thanks for sharing that today.

Absolutely.

All right. If there are no more questions I will move on to your August 18th agenda. There are a total of eight planning items on that agenda.

Item one, this is a street closure request for a portion of an unimproved alley and an unimproved portion of Holly Road adjacent to 252 Bay Colony Drive.

This is in district 6.

The applicants are seeking to close the highlighted portions on the slide here and incorporate those areas into their adjacent lot, which is shown as lot 126 on the plan. The total closure area is approximately 3600 square feet. A similar request was approved by the city council in 2024 for 300 Bay Colony Drive.

As there is an existing public gravity sanitary sewer mane within the alley, a condition is recommended to require the dedication of a public utility and access easement over a portion of the closure area as well as the applicant's property. Although there are no public utilities within this section of Holly Road, we do require the easement to provide access to that storm pipe in the

alley. Um, an additional condition is to require an encroachment agreement to be approved by this body for any improvements either existing or proposed within that utility easement. Um, we did have one speaker in opposition at the planning commission hearing on the other side of the alley who had concerns about the potential for tree loss in that area should that area ever be the trees be

removed in that area and potential impacts to wildlife. Ultimately, the planning commission did recommend approval by unanimous vote.

The next two items are related to a singular project. The first is a component. The first component is a street closure request for a portion of 33rd and a half street west of Pacific Avenue in district 6. In 2025, the city council approved a request to close the air rights above this portion of 33rd and a half street as part of the larger beach tower project. However, the closure request was never finalized by

the applicant. The applicant is now seeking to close a variable width portion of 33rd and a half street and in and incorporate the closure area which equates to approximately 4,300 square feet into their adjacent lots.

Existing public and private infrastructure currently located within this portion of 33rd and a half street is proposed to be relocated by the applicant as part of this request. A condition is recommended to require the final infrastructure design for the rerouting of any public utilities, including any required variances must be approved by both the departments of public works, public utilities, and

planning prior to the final recordation plat um to finalize that street closure.

Additionally, a condition is recommended to require the dedication of a 32- foot wide strip of land along the southwestern side of the property to accommodate a proposed relocated 33rd and a half street.

Staff received two letters of concern and two letters of opposition related to the proposed beach tower project. Those with concern wanted to ensure that there was safe and continuous pedestrian access to 34 34th Street, while those in opposition expressed concern with pedestrian safety and potential impacts to private property during construction.

At the planning commission hearing, two speakers spoke in support of the project, while two speakers noted their concern with pedestrian connectivity and requested the applicant install a sidewalk to provide continuous connection to 34th Street from the 33rd and a half street uh relocation area.

Ultimately, the planning commission did vote to recommend approval of the request by a unanimous vote.

So, item three is the second part of the beach tower request. This is a modification of conditions associated with the alternative compliance application that was approved by council in 2025.

As you may recall, with that approval, it included a 12-story senior living facility with a mix of independent living, apartments, assisted living units, and memory care units with an overall height of 158 1/2 ft. The subject modification is to allow a sevenstory senior living facility with 130 independent living units and an overall height of 85 ft. Since the code establishes a maximum height of 35 ft

for the subject properties, a height deviation must be approved through the alternative compliance process.

Due to the site's location within the 70 to 75 decel noise zone in order for a height deviation to be approved, the applicant does have to prove that the increase in height does not result in any increased density beyond what could be built under the prescribed height. So that 35 ft height limit. The applicant did provide a density study to staff. It was reviewed with our joint review

process group and determined to be um acceptable.

Um the parking or the project does include structured parking on the first and second stories for a total of 159 spaces exceeding the parking requirement. Amenity and office space is proposed along the ground floor of Pacific Avenue to provide more in visual interest and activation on the ground floor. And I do just want to quickly point out, so the area highlighted in green at the top of the image there,

that's the proposed relocated 33rd and a half street.

Since I discussed this with the previous application, I won't go back through it.

Um, similar to the previous request, the planning commission did recommend approval of the modification by unanimous vote.

Item four is a cup request for a bulk storage yard at 233 and 241 Pennsylvania Avenue. This is in district 4.

The applicant intends to store motor vehicles, construction equipment, and delivery trucks um on the site. The bu the site contains two existing buildings and two car ports and all of which are intended to remain and the applicant intends to use the existing building at 241 uh which is the northern property there for storage and office space.

They are requesting a deviation to the bulk storage screening requirements which requires a privacy fence and landscaping around the entire perimeter of the bulk storage yard. They are requesting to deviate from all required landscaping. Um with this request we have they are proposing a variety of fencing um materials to include vinyl wood and some existing chain link fence.

Staff is recommending a condition that the entire bulk storage area be enclosed with a privacy fence and a lowmaintenance materials consistent with other applications we've seen of this type. Um this is located within the central village district of the Pemrook SG SGAA. So we are considering this an interim use and as such conditioning it to a period of five years. There was discussion at the planning commission

hearing hearing to consider a term of four years um and a couple motions associated with that but ultimately the planning commission recommended approval by a nine to vote for a period of 5 years.

Item five is a conditional use permit for a mini warehouse facility at the parcel directly north of 20 Constitution Drive. This is also in district 4.

The 2 and a halfacre site is currently vacant, zoned to B4C and lies within the central business district Bonnie area of the Pemrook SG S SGAA and is adjacent to the Failia Creek Greenway. The applicant is proposing to construct a sevenstory mixeduse building to include a mix of climate climate controlled self- storage and office space. While portions of the site do lie within the resource

protection area of the Chesapeake Bay, all the proposed development is outside that environmentally sensitive area.

The building footprint is appro approximately 15,500 square feet with a total floor area of 124,000 square feet and a max height of 100 ft. The first floor includes a mix of office, warehouse, and self- storage space.

Floors two through six will be entirely self- storage and then the seventh floor will be entirely office space. According to the applicant, it is their intent to construct the building in such a way that would allow conversion of the self- storage place in the future to office should the market demand it.

While a total of 56 parking spaces would be required on site to support both the office and warehouse use, the applicant submitted a parking study with this request to consider the entire City View 2 development. When looking at parking demand for the site, it was determined that the 27 spaces provided on this site along with off-site spaces within the larger City View 2 development, which

includes a parking garage with 487 spaces, would be sufficient to meet the demand.

The elevations on the slide here show a mix of materials proposed for the structure along with a loading area which is incorporated into the building to better screen it from the right of way. Staff has not received any opposition and the planning commission recommended approval by an 83 vote.

The next two items are two conditional use permits. One for mini warehouse warehouse facility and one for a bulk storage yard. This is it for 1036 Ferry Plantation Road in District 9.

The request is to include a mini warehouse facility along with the bulk storage yard. The site currently contains a 25,000 square foot building which was the former Hey Shopping Center and then also has a communication tower on site. The applicant intends to convert the building into a four rent storage unit and associated office space with storage containers and contractors materials located in that orange area

outside of the building which is the proposed bulk storage yard. While the ordinance requires bulk storage yards to be fully enclosed with fencing and landscaping, um, similar to the previous request, the applicant is requesting a deviation to those landscaping requirements along portions of the perimeter just due to the existing impervious cover on the site. It's sandwiched between two existing

buildings. So, they are adding landscaping where they can. It's just not possible with the existing site conditions. Um, staff was okay with that given its location. It's really not heavily visible from either Ferry Plantation or Honey Grove.

When initially submitted, the applicant also include included a bulk storage yard area in front of the building in between the building and Ferry Plantation Road. That is what initially prompted staff to recommend denial of the request. We had said we could support the bulk storage yard to the um in between the two buildings, but we couldn't support that located kind of in the front of the building itself. The

applicant did propose the amended design here to show it only to the south of the building at the planning commission hearing. Um with those staff is amanable to that change. Planning commission was supportive. We haven't received any opposition and planning commission recommended approval of both requests by unanimous vote.

Okay. The last item is an ordinance to amend section 2100 and 21102 and then to add section 21107 to the city zoning ordinance. This is pertaining to workforce housing. Um this amendment is up for your consideration in conjunction with an amendment to chapter 16 of the city code. It proposes to remove the locality restriction from the workforce housing ordinance and requires the property owner to enter into a

compliance agreement with the city prior to the issuance of the first certificate of occupancy in a development that had pursuant to the workforce housing ordinance. As the ordinance is currently written, it conflicts with state and federal requirements such as low lowincome housing tax credits that prohibits developers from benefiting from our d workforce housing density bonus and many of the state and federal

um opportunities. So with this proposed change in the language, developers would be able to take advantage of both the city require or the city um density bonus as well as state and federal offerings. Um, with that, I sure question about that. Um, just for clarity sake, the ordinances that you're seeking to amend are the pre-existing workforce housing ordinance that were that have been on the book books for for

quite some time. Correct. Correct.

This these are not the new attainable workforce housing uh program. This is not that program.

No, this is specific to article 21, which is workforce housing.

Okay. So, so what these are are basically cleanups to what we had previously approved many years ago to make sure that they uh jive I guess with what the state requirements are.

Correct. Correct.

I just want to make sure that that was said.

Okay. Anybody else?

Okay. Thanks a bunch.

Okay, folks. Any uh council leaison reports?

Oh my god. Nobody did anything.

Okay.

Well, just um two items town center area. We're still going through the situation of this and a new where they have some youth. I don't know if any of you have had the same situation. They're selling candies in boxes as though it's for their um sports football and now they're doing it asking for um credit cards to pay them. So I didn't know if anyone else has had that experience.

Yeah, that might be something I can walk into town center is and they you know share that with me.

Okay. And then the other thing was um people talking about what was going on at the ocean front. They really enjoyed um you had someone who was um an illusionist that people enjoyed that and they also enjoyed the Norwegian play.

Mhm. But we're the one that's happy with was the sports it finally gave us and got a call on that.

But that's it.

Okay. And u Barbara and then Jennifer.

Uh I was just going to mention the um national night out last week.

I think that is so good.

We really ought to find other opportunities for us to visit in neighborhoods. I know this is a national kind of event and that's what it's based on, but it gives us an opportunity to get into the neighborhoods and them to meet a council person and show us what they're doing. I thought it was really good from the aspect of uh the the neighborhood and what their relationship is with the police and so forth. And I I

I just thought there might be other opportunities for us to do similar things.

Okay, Jennifer, two things. won um a cup last week.

Mayor and I uh made remarks at the summer youth employment program ceremony. So, there were 200 youth ages 16 to 21 that completed this 8-week program, some with the city of Virginia Beach and some with private employers.

But I commend our city and our staff and our um for having that in the budget and having that as a program to give um youth employment opportunities to um particularly in the summer for our youth. I would love to see expanding that year round. So even outside of the summer, giving um young people an opportunity to connect with the city for work opportunities and to see how we can recruit private employers to do the

same. And happy birthday to the mayor.

Yeah. Yeah, yesterday was the mayor's birthday. So, happy birthday to you.

Three quarters of the century plus one.

Yes.

Happy birthday to you.

Say the actual number.

Yes.

Oh, thank you very much. Cash.

Yes. Happy birthday, Mayor. Related. Um I do want to echo uh National Night Out.

Um, Brigadeun had a large gathering and you had just stopped through Mayor and uh, we were grateful to have Captain Gervin who showed up and we were passing out um, stay up to speed on ebike safety, right? And so it was I'm so thankful for our police department, our sheriff's department, our um, EMS, our fire department. So very grateful. So, National Night Out is something I agree

with you. We should go into other areas because that was my first time uh going to Brigadunes. Last year I went to your area.

Uh so I I've been doing it.

Yeah.

Not mention what happened in our area.

District 4 and District 9. We had it at Bayside High School and had a very nice turnout there as well.

National Night Out is important and it makes a difference.

Sorry, I forgot uh the the ebike card that presenting cash made me think about it. I'm part of ATAC and um they I'm drawing a blank on his last name, Steve from Parks and Wreck. um he uh he got the he worked with schools uh middle school and they are going to develop a program uh already and uh be teaching it so through the school. So I think that's going to be fantastic. Um bike safety in

its own is a great step to get to get done. So um I think we're moving in the right direction with this and I really appreciate their effort. ATAC does a great job. They're very engaged. Um happy to be a part of it. Right. Okay.

You have Michael Are we done?

Yeah. I'm sorry I messed up, Michael. My fault.

Comments.

Uh, thank you, mayor. I just want to make a quick preview to a briefing that's going to happen a week from today on the um undersea mining proposal off the Virginia coast. Um, we'll we'll have a briefing on that um next Tuesday.

Thanks to Mayor Dyer for sponsoring and um and also to Mr. Duhaney and and uh the team the professional team for bringing in experts and perspective that will help further inform us. Just want to bring to your attention that the Bureau of Energy Management did extend our request for an extended comment period by 30 days and so that period though closes on August 22nd and our meeting on Tuesday will be on August

18th. So our window for providing formal feedback um will be closing during that time. Of course, I'm sure we could provide feedback on behalf of the city of Virginia Beach at any time, but in my view, it's um it would be important and I think impactful that we participate as part of the uh formal feedback process that the bureau is providing. Um and so we've had um the time over the recess

since we last discussed it. There's been um media reports about it and an opportunity for each of us to do independent research on the topic. We'll pro we'll have a briefing next week. Um and at that time I hope that we can reach a consensus position that we can convey to the bureau before the 22nd.

Rosemary, on the topic of ebikes, I know a lot of you saw where u a 12-year-old child was hit and seriously injured on the boardwalk.

And I know this is not the only person that's been hit by an ebike. And uh so I wanted to ask and and I let Mr. Dane know ahead of time where we are with the signage because it's important to have signage so that people know that they're not allowed there and the signage. And I I know that particular person did get a summons, but also with enforcement in general. If you could speak to that, I'd

appreciate it.

So, Vice Mayor, we have Amanda Jarrett.

She's going to come and give the council overview. We also have Captain Gordon of the second precinct as well that could answer any specific enforcement questions. But go ahead, Amanda.

Good afternoon, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, members of city council. Um, thank you for the opportunity to provide you with a brief update with regards to our cross departmental effort to provide education um, and safety related to ebikes. Um, with regards to signage, we have had um, resort behavior signs installed um, along Atlantic Avenue every three blocks beginning at 14th Street and ending at 38th Street. Um,

this does specifically address ebikes and e-moto devices and where they can and cannot be ridden. Um along the boardwalk, these same signs have been installed every four blocks, beginning at 2nd Street and ending at 38th Street.

Um thank you to our city communications division that created the palm cards that are placed at your seats. Um we have distributed those to the beach ambassadors both at the resort and in the town center area. We have um 2500 palm cards that have been distributed today and we are in the process of obtaining an additional 5,000 educational cards. We'll be placing those at um also at the various police

precincts for distribution and we'll have those made available to you at your forums should you like them placed there. Um with regards to citations um we are again trying to educate um but at the oceanfront specifically we've now issued a total of 18 ebike uh citations and one warning. So, um, lastly, as was mentioned, um, again, we're working on safety and education, and so the second

precinct is scheduling a safety and education class on September 26th at WT Cook Elementary School. Um, the times are tenatively scheduled from 9:30 a.m.

to 12:30 p.m. Um, but stay tuned for additional information regarding um, the safety and education class.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate it, Amelia.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you for the information. Are you going to have similar cars like these at wherever we have the parks after dark is right along that area?

We can certainly make arrangements to do so. Um lastly, um we have had 165 total incidents related to bikes from January 1st to July 31st. Of those total incidents 67 um were ebike related in some way. And that's across the entire city. Um specific to the resort, there would have been 13 incidents again from um January 1st to date.

Okay. Thank you. Any other questions?

Okay.

Thank you.

Does anybody have anything else?

I just want to bring up, you know, something also related to the National Night Out and what it means for the community to interact with all the public safety with police, fire, EMS, and all the people, you know, building that community bond. And as Jennifer mentioned, you know, when we went to that event at Desire, a number of those folks there were with the parks after dark program.

And during our break, we once again got noted nationally as the safest city in the country. Yes, we have problems.

Every city has problems, but we are handling ours. And once again, the fact that the community relations that we have with the police, the community is the front line that works with the police and, you know, you know, provides safety in their own communities going forward. And we got to be proud of that. We took the initiative a couple of years ago to try parks after dark. You

know, you Rosemary had the mayor's youth uh commission and we sent people out to Los Angeles to find out how best practices what went on there and guess what? It's been so successful we did a second one and that one was successful.

So be assured that we are bring being proactive. And just a a quick date, you know, the mayor's task force for a safer Virginia Beach. Tell you what, I got to give a shout out to Monica Kroski and her entire team at Delino Miles and everybody. I know a number of you have attended some of those sessions. And not only are they meeting, but we I think had three community outreaches so far.

And you know, we got another one planned once schools go out. And then there were also as a suggestion of some of the folks in the group uh that were maybe going to go externally to amphitheater and other places to actively engage the youth out there. But I'll tell you, it is a very collective group of 82 people including two members of the general assembly. And from what I see, the

chemistry has been tremendous and the attitude to get something purposeful done is obviously evident. So we got a lot to be proud of. Do we as a city have problems? Yes, we do. But guess what?

We're confronting that. Okay. Anybody else at this point?

Okay. How about consent? Uh consent agenda then? It's not all of consent but uh so under orders and resolutions the only one there is being pulled is level one and then I am abstaining on number six. Um does anybody have anything else any of those resolutions?

So moving on under planning. Um so number one the farmhouse is being pulled and number five the uh why the daycare is being pulled.

I think that's it. So let me go through the others.

Um, number two, Mile Kaiser, District 6.

Agenda, please.

Number three, Pongo Square, District 2.

Number four, Atinson Holdings, District 5 consent.

Number six, Coastal Training, District 6, consent agenda.

Uh, number seven, Steve Merrill, District 9, consent.

Number eight, uh, City of Virginia Beach Major Entertainment Venue signs.

Okay. Number nine, Atlantic uh, rental homes district five and consent.

10, Sarah Watinson, um, district six, consent.

Uh, number 11, the ordinance to amend the, uh, short-term rental parking to defer that. Um, for how long? for one month on the second formal meeting in September when we take that will be the seventh time meeting.

Is that long enough?

Tomorrow the planning commission takes up the overlay map discussion and we want to match this up with that and also uh amend this ordinance.

till September 7th or October.

So something's taken up tomorrow in the planning commission first or the second.

I'm still on the summer schedule. Sorry.

So it would be the 15th.

Okay.

So is everybody okay with that? The September 15th. September 1st is when we want to defer it till September 1st first formal meeting.

The first one.

Oh, that's the first then.

Okay. September 1.

September one.

Okay. And then the ordinance to amend about the mini warehouse. Is everybody okay with that?

That's it.

All righty. Great. Moving on. Um, the chair will entertain a motion to recess into a close session pursuant to the exemption from open meetings allowed by section 2.27 service 711A code of Virginia as amended for the following purposes. Publicly held property discussions are considerations of the acquisition of real property for a public purpose under other disposition of publicly held property where

discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the public body pursuant to section 2.2371183 2371183 and that's district 6 district 10 and public uh contract discussions to award the public contract involving the expenditure of public funds and discussion of the terms of scope of such contract where discussion in an open session or

adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the public body pursuant to section 2.23711A29 that that's project recognition and personnel matters discussion considerations or interviews of prospective candidates for employment assignments appointment promotion performance demotion salaries disciplining or resignation of specific public officers appointees or employees

of any public body pursuant to section 2.2 to 3711A1 and that's appointments for boards, commissions committees authorities agencies and appointees. Do I have a motion?

So move second.

Okay.

Council member I ci

hi Wilson. Hi Mayor D. I I have a question.

Barbara, these um uh names that we've got for projects like I don't know what project recognition is. Can you let us know what these names are? It doesn't do any good to know so that we can come prepared.

We can figure out we have a list of all of these names that we have of these projects and how does the public know what we're talking about or is that the idea?

Well, isn't there criteria for discussing this in closed session that you know affect competitiveness and you know things of that nature. Mark and mayor, we do include a letter where we list the projects in the district in the Friday package and we ask council if you have any questions to please reach out to Mark and I we'll give you an update on the ones that may not necessarily be ready for disclosure to

the public.

I like to come a little prepared for knowing what we're going to discuss so that if there's background that we need to read up on, but if we don't know what it is, then it's not much helpful to be able to discuss things sometimes.

Okay? You know, but once again, um you know, you know, this is another thing that if you'd like, you know, of the upcoming retreat, we can discuss.

Okay. At this point, we are sent to quote

ready to get going.

Okay, I'm going to call this meeting to order. And at this time, if you are willing and able, please stand for the invocation.

Heavenly Father, you are only always with us and beside us. Be with us this evening as we consider the affairs of our great city. Give us the patience to listen and the wisdom to decide and the strength to act. Amen.

And if I may ask for a moment of silence in honor of those who paid the ultimate price to protect Virginia Beach and our nation.

Thank you. And now, the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you all.

Madame clerk, do we have a roll call?

Yes, your honor. All present.

Okay. Do I have a motion for the certification of the close session?

So moved.

One second. Mayor, we have a brand new voting system here and technology is betraying us right now. We'll get it. There we go.

Who made a second?

Re.

That's fine.

All right, we got it going.

The vote is open.

Okay. Can I ask for a motion to approve the informal Mayor? I'm sorry. We've got to finish this first. The vote is open. So I need council member Cummings, Council Member Jackson Green, if you can give me your verbal vote.

Yes.

They will, but go ahead and do yes.

Council Jackson Green.

Yes.

Council Ross Hammond.

Yes. Vice Mayor Wilson.

I pushed the button. Is not not showing?

It it is not. If you just give me your val verbal vote.

It is I.

Thank you. By vote of 11 to zero. You certified the close session to be in accordance with a motion to recess.

Okay. Thank you. And uh do I have a motion to infor uh approve the informal and formal sessions of June 7th, 2026 and the informal and formal sessions of June 14th, 2026?

Second.

The vote is open.

Council member Jackson Green.

I thank you. By a vote of 11 to zero, you approve the minutes as submitted.

Okay. And thank you. And we have a magnificent presentation today. It's a recognition of King Neptune and his court. And I'd like to recognize Kit Choke to come on down.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of council. It's nice to see you and thank you for the invitation back. I'm Kit Chop, the president and CEO of the Virginia Beach Neptune Festival, and I'm honored to be here to present the 52nd Court of Neptune. As the city's official celebration, the Virginia Beach Neptune Festival has been producing familyfriendly events since 1974.

Now in our 52nd year, we're proud of where we've been, and we look forward to where we're going to be in the next 50 years of Sun, Sand, and Celebration. Our mission is to celebrate the spirit of this city, the spirit of Virginia Beach through authentic experiences that foster joy, community, and connection for all.

I'd like to say thank you to to the members of council for your support and Mr. Dehaney, to you and the many city departments with whom we are very fortunate to work every year. It is our privilege to work with your staff and with your team. And quite frankly, we couldn't do it alone and we really uh en enjoy those relationships not just with your staff but across the city.

You are incredible to work with and again we couldn't do it without you. And those kinds of things that we produce in conjunction with the city and our many many community partners whether they're sponsors donors nonprofit organizations, the schools include our symphony by the sea concert series, our seniors gaya coming on up here in a few weeks, our craft beer and wine festivals, our grand parade and 8K run,

and of course our internationally acclaimed sand sculpting championship.

That's not why I'm here. I'm here to present the royal court. that's who you want to see. I hope this is who these folks want to see. And I'm honored to present those folks. Representing eight high schools across our city are Princess Milan Anderson, Princess Audrey Brewer, Princess Ella Deal, Princess Molly Gellwick, Princess Hayden Hoover, Princess Olivia San Nicholas, Prince Connor Smith,

Princess Isabella Thompson, Princess Bailey Wilkins. Now, a few of these young leaders are not able to be with us tonight, and they're doing what probably I was not doing when I was a high school senior, a rising senior in the summertime. They are off on trips uh that make them more well-rounded leaders and adults. uh including things like an operation smile medical mission trip,

another on a mission trip to Ukraine and other philanthropic and culturally broadening broadening activi activities.

Excuse me. They are Prince Balden Carson, Princess Liliana Couture, Prince Neil Singh and Princess Eva Ern.

Folks, this is the future of this city right here. A fine stable of young leaders. We hope that they stay here once they go on to college and come back. And now the Tritons and their partners. Triton Ashley Almond and Gentleman Bailey.

Triton Christopher Childs and Lady Stephanie.

Triton Alyssa Dangler and Gentleman Matt.

Triton Trent Dudley and Lady Sally.

Triton Tyler Jacobson and Lady Sammy.

Triton Jeremy Maloney and Lady Lauren.

Triton Desiree Mitchell and Gentleman Matt.

Triton Megan Parker and gentleman Chad.

This year's celebration chairs are Will Driscoll and Katie Colette. And my friends without his wife tonight who is at a school event is King Neptune the 52nd, Mr. Adam Carroll.

Welcome and good evening.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening and good evening, vice mayor, council members, and staff. It's a tremendous honor to be here tonight as we celebrate the 52nd year of the Neptune Festival.

On behalf of the Royal Court, our staff, and most importantly, our volunteers and patrons. Uh, thank you. This festival simply would not be what it is today without the city's long-standing support and partnership. Uh, the festival is especially meaning to me. Uh it I've experienced the festival my entire life at Virginia Beach as a child going to the parades, attending the events. Later

I worked at the Sky Coaster for those who remember that at First Street uh and seeing the buzz the festival created around Boardwalk weekend. Uh and now as a business person in Hampton Roads area and Virginia Beach specifically, uh just seeing the economic impact that it makes on our city, but more importantly the joy, the pride and sense of community it creates in our citizens. So again, on

behalf of the festival, myself, and these amazing people standing in front of you, uh thank you again for your support. We look forward to seeing all of you, uh and hopefully all of our fellow Virginia Beach residents in this chamber and across the city, uh at our over 40 events throughout the year and certainly at Boardwalk Weekend, the last weekend of September. So, thank you again.

Okay, thank you. And the the Neptune Festival is a is a celebration of who we are as Virginia Beach as one of the greatest cities in this great nation.

You make it that way. Thank you.

Thank you, SIR.

MR. MAYOR, I brought a few coins for the DAS. May I approach and hand them out for a moment? Sure can.

Thank you, sir.

first.

Hey, thank you. You got it.

Thank you, sir.

Okay, thank you all for coming this evening. Really appreciate it.

Okay, before we get to the consent agenda, I'm going to read a script for the speakers. I want to remind everyone that the city council speaker policy that allows for certain representatives of groups to speak for 10 minutes applies only to planning items. All other speakers, whether speaking individually on behalf of a group, will have three minutes to speak on a single item. We will have a on a single item.

Speakers are reminded that comments during the formal portion of the meeting must be limited to the subject of the item that is being considered by the council at the time. For items placed on the consent agenda, a speaker may have up to three minutes to address any single item. If a speaker wishes to address multiple consent items, the speaker will have a cumitive total of six minutes to address those items.

Again, the speaker must limit his or her comments to the subject matter of the items they have signed up to address.

And finally, I call upon all speakers and all persons in the chamber to be civil in their discussion and decorum.

Whatever views you hold and wish to express, the city council wants to hear from you and to ensure that all viewpoints and all persons are respected. The best way to do this is for all to strive for civility and respect. There are a lot of people here today for the public hearing regarding Virginia Beach National Golf uh course.

We're going to hold public hearing at the same time the item is called for the vote. Each speaker will have three minutes to speak before the council takes action on the item. Does that work for the rest of council?

Okay, vice mayor, if you can go ahead with the consent agenda.

Um, thank you, Mr. Mayor, under under ordinances and resolutions, number two is the resolution to extend the city school revenue sharing policy to June 30th 2028.

Uh number three is the ordinance to appoint Bridget Hensel to the position of assistant city attorney effective July 9th, 2026. Number four is a resolution to authorize the issuance of revenue bonds in an amount of not to exceed $7 million by the Virginia Beach Development Authority.

Uh, number five is the ordinance to authorize the city manager to execute a 5-year ground lease agreement with T-Mobile Northeast LLC for a portion of city-owned property at 616 North Great Neck Road ready maintaining and uh operating wireless telecommunications facilities.

Number six is the ordinance to authorize the uh temporary encroachments into a portion of a city-owned ride of way known as uh Twin Mills Road ready to construct and maintain a monument sign with landscaping and underground electrical uh conduits. and that's in district 5 and Wilson will be abstaining. Number seven is the ordinance to donate 25 ballistic vests to the department of energy medical services EMS of

Northampton County Ray the enhance the personnel safety. Number eight is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $187,626 from the Virginia Department of Behavioral Health and Development Services to the 2026 2027 human services operating budget ray peer pilot program for individuals agit agitate for as not guilty.

by reasons of assault and authorize two fulltime grant funded positions rate targeted peer support services. Number nine is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $45,540.70 from the Virginia Department of Health Office and Emergency Medical Services to the FY202627 Department of Emergency Medical Services EMS operating budget and authorize a grant match of $45,540.70 from existing funs.

and capital project 10729 uh public safety equipment uh replacement.

Ray purchased the stair pro stair chair and three power stretchers.

Number 10 is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $28,236 from the congestion mitigation and air quality improvement pro program to the FY202627 non departmental operating budget rate to reimbursement to the vehicle replacement program. And number 11 is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $26,620 from the Virginia Department of Behavioral Health and Development Services to the FY202627

Human Services Operating Budget Rate Problem Gambling Prevention Program. Number 12 is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $8,775 from the Virginia Department of Historic Resources to FY202627 Planning and Community Development Operating Budget to authorize a grant match of $8,775 and authorize the city manager to execute a subgrant agreement to update the National Historic toric uh historic

places uh nomination number 13 is the ordinance to accept and appropriate $6,699 from the commonwealth to the FY202627 office of the voter registars operating budget to fund salary adjustment approved by the general assembly.

Open a hearing on planning. Okay, we will start out with number two is uh Ronald Kisser and Ron and Sarah Kisser for a change in uh nonconformity reconstruct a detached garage storage at 1330 Credle Road and that is in district 6.

Number three is the Pungo Square Real Estate LLC and Allen and Brock Alan W Brock Jr. for a conditional change of zoning from B1 uh neighborhood business district and AG2 agricultural district and conditional B2 community business district to allow additional retail business at 1776 Princess Anne Road and that is district two.

Number four is Atinson Holdings LLC for conditional change of zoning from I1 light industrial district to conditional B uh RT3 resort tourist district permit retail uses at 608 610 612 614 and 616 Norfick Avenue and 633 63 37 and 649 10th Street and that is in district 5. Number six is the Coastal Training LLC and Roadrunner LLC for a conditional use permit to indoor uh recreational

facility at 209 First Colonial Road uh suites 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, and 13. And that is in district six. Number seven is the Steve Merrill Warner and Sherry Elaine Warner uh for a conditional use permit Ray Homebased Wildlife uh rehabilitation facility at 4317 Bengun Road and that is in district 9.

Number eight is the city of Virginia Beach for a major entertainment venue signed at 10:16, 1093, and 10:45 9inth Street Ray the Virginia Beach Sports Center and that is in district 6.

Number nine is Atlantic R uh rental homes uh Tidewater Asset and Group uh LLC for conditional use permit. uh a short-term rental at 913 uh Pacific Avenue and that is in district five.

Number 10 is Sarah Watkinson and John Sarah Watkinson uh for a conditional use permit short-term rentals at um 304 28th Street and that's in district 6 uh number 11.

Uh is the ordinance is the ordinance to amend the zoning ordinance uh for 2303 rate uh short-term rental parking and that is going to be deferred until September 1st. And number 12, the last one, ordinance to amend the city zoning ordinance um section 237 uh regarding many warehouses. Move to approve. Do I have a second?

Second.

Ameilia's the second.

Sorry. Give us just one second.

All righty.

We're We're going to We're opening We're opening the motion, so stop clicking, please.

Okay.

Thank you.

Go ahead. The vote is open.

Thank you. By a vote of 11 to zero, approve the consent agenda as read by Vice Mayor Wilson, noting Vice Mayor Wilson's abstension and the deferment till September 1.

Okay. Thank you. Um, now for ordinances and resolutions. Item one, ordinance to declare 341.4 four plus or minus anchors of city- owned property at 22500 Tournament Drive to be in excess of city's needs. approved the term sheet for the redevelopment of the Virginia Beach National Golf Course and authorized the city manager into enter into a purchase and development agreement with Dragus Associates raise

sale and development of the property and I open the public hearing for the declaration of the sale of excess property approximate approximately 341 plus or minus acres at 2500 Tournament Drive known as Virginia Beach National of course to Dragus Associates. Madame clerk, please call the first speaker.

The first speaker is Martha Theorough.

After Miss Theo is Anthony Walters.

Surprise. I thought there were a few ahead of me.

Members of council, I'm going to be blunt tonight.

Do not sell Virginia Beach National Golf Course.

This requires nine of your 11 votes. The supermajority is supposed to protect the public when a public asset is being sold. But look at this process. Dragus was negotiating with the city before the public RFP ever existed. Council then met in closed session eight times about this property. The RFP produced nine responses. After all that, we ended up with Dragas. So, I have a simple

question. Was this really a competitive process or was it the RFP simply the final step in a deal that was already underway?

Then there is Taylor Franklin. He was vice chair of the Virginia Beach Development Authority when the city auditor documented serious failures involving the golf course. He later submitted an RFP response and that response reportedly included 42 additional acres that were not part of the RFP. How did a competing bidder know about those acres? That question deserves an answer. Then consider the

money companies associated with Dragus and Franklin have contributed to numerous members of this council. I'm not saying a campaign contribution buys a vote, but when developers who stand to benefit from a public transaction are contributing to officials voting on that transaction, the public has every right to question the appearance of conflict.

And taxpayers are being asked to fund roads, drainage, storm water infrastructure in this rural area.

Improvements that can also enhance surrounding private development. The golf course ponds are part of that storm water system. So again I ask who pays and who benefits? Taylor Franklin is a powerful and respected figure in Virginia Beach. He was King Neptune and this year was named first citizen of Virginia Beach by the JC's. I congratulate him. But influence is not entitlement and prestige is not transparency.

There is now a federal there is now a federal lawsuit challenging this transaction. So why vote tonight? You don't have to, but I am familiar with other instances of expedited votes on behalf of developers such as Mr.

Franklin as with adjacent property, the silos apartments in 2023.

Stop this sale. Open the books. Answer the question. Show the public exactly how the nine proposals were evaluated and how those additional 42 acres appeared. If this is truly in the best interest for Virginia Beach, it will survive scrutiny. You are not the owners of this golf course. We are. You are its stewards. So don't ask us to trust you.

Earn our trust. Stop the sale. Vote no tonight. Thank you.

THE NEXT The next speaker is Anthony Walters.

The next speaker is Anthony Walters. And then Tim Worst.

Good evening.

Good evening. Good evening. Good evening, Mayor Dyer. Uh members of the city council. My name is Anthony Walters. It's good to see each and every one of you again.

Uh I am the president and chief executive officer for the YMCA of Southampton Roads. Uh, R YMCA is a nonprofit charitable organization devoted to meeting the needs of the communities that we serve. That is the spirit which guides our operation at the first TE. And that spirit has also prompted our ongoing partnerships to expand child care in collaboration with Virginia Beach Public Schools and other

key stakeholders throughout Hampton Roads.

We continue to fully support any plan which furthers our charitable mission and impact.

I've now had the opportunity to speak directly to Helen Dragus and she and her team are aware of our desire to expand the availability of child care in Virginia Beach and take Helen at her word when she visions a strong collaborative relationship by which a section of the proposed Princess Landing development would house a childcare facility, potentially even operated by the YMCA Southampton Roads.

Additionally, I'm excited for the opportunity we serve and hear what I've heard from Helen when she indicates that our partnership would serve residents of Princess Anne Landing and the other communities in the vicinity. And while our discussions are currently in an exploratory phase, I remain delighted by the possibility of delivering not only additional child care opportunities to

the communities, but also a world-class first tea and golf program for families surrounding Virginia Beach and uh but most importantly grateful for the Dragas Associates support for our charitable mission. The administration's recommendation of Dragas's uh proposal reflects in part an intent for this development to serve broader and importantly community needs and we pledge to pursue this opportunity in the

interests of those affected residents.

Thank you for your time this morning.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Tim Wor.

Please, please, folks, civility for everybody. After Mr. Worst is Usha Ellis Pu.

Good evening. Um, my name is Tim Worst.

I'm pretty much a lifelong resident here in Virginia Beach. Um, and I would assume that everybody, every one of you when you were running for office probably used the word transparency.

And the young lady before me said that you had eight closed sessions and then here we are.

Uh, I've seen numerous times council members and the the media talking about fiscal responsibility.

How is giving away a golf course for free plus paying a bunch of different fees for them good financial responsibility? It's ridiculous how much we are paying Dragas to take the best public golf course in Virginia Beach.

Josh, on Facebook, you said that you just can't make your decision based on Facebook. I'm wondering if the number of emails that you receive matter or do any of the council read their emails or reply? Do citizens meetings where there's a group of Virginia Beach uh golfers and Virginia Beach National has their own group and they've had several meetings. Does that get your attention?

What gets your attention? Does a packed room in here with huge applause for voting? No. Does that get your attention?

There's a uh there's a number of people that have thrown out the number 3.4 million annual revenue. And then I saw that that doesn't happen until 6 years later. And I'm not sure I trust that 3.4 4 million number because the person I would trust more says that's not the number.

Where are the alternatives? I read earlier today um Mr. Attorney that we didn't read the other options that we didn't read the other bids that came in.

How do we know that there's not a better option?

Josh said everybody still has to go through the same planning department process, city requirements, traffic, storm water. He said he's seen the information. It's good to go. Well, what is it?

Why haven't the people seen the traffic study? Why haven't the people seen the storm water study? Nobody else has seen it.

I have 27 seconds left. So, Miss Rouse Cash, this one's for you. A rumor has it that the bullies on council heard that you might say no to this and they came to you and said, "We need your yes vote."

In that prayer Bobby gave earlier, he said, "Strength to act.

Go with your gut, your people persons."

Thank you.

Go with your gut and vote no.

THANK YOU, KEVIN.

THE NEXT SPEAKER IS Usha Eliswarpu.

After Miss Elwarpu is Vikash Shadari,

I'm not here to address all of you council members. I'm here to speak to the good people of our city who work hard, pay their taxes, and trust their council members will do the right thing for them. Citizens of District 1, Indian River Road, phase 7, funding denied.

Fire department and EMS storage facility, funding denied. Headquarters building for fire and EMS, funding denied. Councilman Hutcherson of District 1 will give $20 million of your money to draggers instead of making public safety and public roads a priority. Yet, Councilman Hutcherson is an honorable man. Citizens of District 3, Windsor Oaks fire and EMS station funding denied. Councilman Berluchcci would

rather give money to Dragas than fund this new fire station. Yet, Councilman Belaluchcci is an honorable man, and I'm sure he has his reasons.

District 6 citizens, Alaskan Road improvements, funding denied. A new beach maintenance facility, funding denied. By the way, this building houses chemicals and other materials. And the current building for the beach maintenance facility is in the middle of a residential area and is more than 40 years old. Your councilman Ramik will give millions to draggers instead of funding this new beach facility. Yet

councilman Ramik, I'm sure he's an honorable man and I'm sure he has his reasons. District 7 citizens Indian River Road phase 7 funding denied. Rec center, forget it. Councilman Cash Green still cannot get a rec center for your district, but he is okay with giving millions to drag us. Yet, Councilman Cash Green, he's an honorable man.

District 8 citizens, show drive improvements, funding denied. Councilman Cummings will not fund this, even as he gives away millions of your money to draggers. Yet, Councilman Cummings is an honorable man. District 9 citizens, Pleasure House Road improvements, funding denied. Councilman Schulman thinks this is less important than the draggers development. Yet, Councilman Schulman, he's an honorable man.

District 10 citizens, Rosemont Road improvements, funding denied. A new fire station in your district. Funding denied. Council Councilwoman Rouse would rather give $20 million of your money to the wealthy draggers lady. Yet they are all honorable council members. And I'm no aator. I'm just a plain blunt person.

And I tell you that which you already know. Thank you.

The next the next speaker is Vash Shahari.

Vikas Shahari.

John Moss.

And after Mr. Moss is John Burke.

That looks close.

The sale to Dragus is not the least cost taxpayer solution to save the National Golf Course per the RFP. I look forward to a few council members votes to reject the proposal conceived in deception that violates the city council's fiduciary duty to the public by giving away the National Golf Course effectively for free plus 42 acres not in the RFP and providing a total of 37.8 million plus

inflation to Dragas and building 659 homes below the green line. But we do know that per Edine, the owner and CEO of Paramount Builders, in a public statement said he submitted a bid in full compliance with the non-housing RFP.

and he offered to purchase the golf course for the same price we paid for it, 4.5 million, and to take on the full liability and cost to fix the drainage, recapitalize the buildings, restore the course to like new condition, operate it, and maintain it for a net profit of 4.5 million with no additional taxpayers funds.

Now, let's recount the cost of the deal.

the city manager in collusion with Dragus and at least a majority of you have expressed an intent to support.

First, we're rebating 17.9 millions of the sales price back to Draus. Another 1.8 million from the VBDA, another 4.3 million in public infrastructure cap, another 3.6 million in project caps for cost overruns. And the caps just mentioned are not really caps because section 10A of the term sheet provides that the developer will be reimbursed for cost in excess of the two gaps through performance grants up to 10.2

million plus inflation. And we know what that's going.

No council member that adds up to 378 million plus inflation. No council member who votes for this sale to Dragus can make the claim they are good stewards of the taxpayers money or that their only concern is saving the national golf course at least cost the taxpayers. The voting public already knows the right answer. Kill this deal.

They are watching to see if you have the virtue in fulfilling your fiduciary responsibilities to do the right thing this evening. THANK YOU.

THE NEXT SPEAKER IS JOHN BURKE.

The next speaker is John Burke. After Mr. Jer Burke is George Wall.

Sorry, I didn't mean that.

You're going to think it afterwards, though.

Mayor Dyer, Councilman, thank thank you for allowing me to speak. Uh, I understand it was your birthday yesterday. Happy birthday. Um, first thing I want to know is which one of you guys is Edward Leonard?

Not you. Okay.

As many of you, as you now know, you know, there are a lot of people here that are really angry uh regarding this this deal. Many are making claims of illegality and uh asking for your heads.

Now, did this deal violate the law? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. Uh, I can't say for sure, but it it does look like it came pretty damn close. Um, you know, there's a difference though between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Um, the same is true when it comes to building codes, ironically.

Um, building codes are kind of funny. the uh they're often written in very plain language because the the people who write it think this who would misinterpret this. So uh you know in my business though they said the building code is whatever the code inspector says it is. So the point I'm getting to here is I want to introduce you something.

This is called the CA90 duckless fan.

You see it there's no outlet. Just got a little charcoal filter. Funny thing about the charcoal filter is it blends in. If you didn't know it was there, you wouldn't know it needs to be changed every 3 months.

This thing was developed, you see how it's real small? It's meant to fit into a wall cavity to vent a commercial restroom in an office building.

Now, why do bathrooms? There's a difference between a bathroom and a restroom. You see, in a bathroom, you take baths presumably with warm water.

In a restroom, you don't do that. you just, you know, you go and you wash your hands, right? You're not creating any kind of steam. So, why does a bathroom need ventilation?

And the code said they needed either a window for years. They said they needed a window. There was at least three had a clear opening of at least three square feet or mechanical ventilation.

Well, why? To get the damn moisture out.

Why do you need to get the moisture out?

Because if you have moisture and you don't you don't mitigate, you get mold.

Okay, you got condensation on your ceiling, it turns into mold. We call it mildew to be nice. It's mold. There's always mold spores in the air. All it needs is moisture in a food source. And it doesn't really need a food source because it'll eat paper. It'll eat it'll eat dust. So mold doesn't need anything to grow with a little bit of moisture.

Putting this in a bathroom in a residence is unconscionable. Now the code guy said, "Well, mechanical ventication. Okay, we'll let it go."

This thing is a mold machine, okay? And if you didn't know to pull that filter out every 3 months, it gets even worse.

So, you got 30 years of dust going through this crap. Con, it's a mold incubation and distribution device. And these monsters put these in every condo they sold for nearly 30 years.

Why? To save a couple of dollars. It's like they save. Thank you very much.

Maybe $30 unit.

Thank you.

That's who you want to give our golf course to stick.

The next speaker is George Wall.

After Mr. Wall is Helen Dragus.

Folks, can we please be civil?

Really?

Are we having fun yet?

Most of you know me. My name is Buddy Wall. I'm the uh president of the Princess San Plaza Civic League, but I'm here speaking as a private citizen tonight. And I hope you'll pay attention because this is important. If our communities are no longer allowed to participate in the government process of buying and selling our property, what happens to our land? What does independence mean if private developers,

tech companies, and political insiders believe they are entitled to our water, our electricity, our farmland, our air, our peace, and our health?

What does the American dream mean if the people who live here are treated like obstacles while corporations are treated like kings? The questions before us is this.

Is it data centers versus food, water versus AI, health versus illness, or the proper use of our open spaces versus private profit? The city of Virginia Beach is not empty land waiting for billionaires to discover it. This city is alive. And this is about governance.

This is about whether public officials still serve the public or whether they serve whoever shows up with the biggest project, the biggest law firm, the biggest promise and the biggest pressure campaign. The American dream is supposed to mean that a family can live in peace, that a child can breathe clean air, that a farmer can keep farming, and that a community can show up to a public meeting and be heard, and that

government records should not be missing, incomplete, or buried.

The decision should not be made behind closed doors and sold to the public after the path has already been cleared.

When residents have to sacrifice their time, their privacy, and their peace to get answers from their own government, something is deeply broken.

This is the new American fight. It is not just left or right. It's not Democrat or Republican. It is local people versus concentrated power.

It is community life versus corporate entitlement. It is democracy versus backroom development. And it is the public interest versus private profit.

for Virginia Beach to Bristol to Fairfax to the Eastern Shore and across all communities. We are asking the same for the same benefit as everyone else is getting. Who pays? Who profits? Who decides? Who's protected? And who is sacrificed? The answer cannot be the people pay. The corporate profit and the politicians decide and the community is sacrificed.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Helen Dragas. After Miss Dragus is Jimmy Hayen.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer and Vice Mayor Wilson, members of city council. I'm Helen Dragas, and I appreciate the opportunity for us uh to for you to hear our vision of how this land can accommodate both a championship golf course and new housing and a child care facility. Our national caliber golf partners will speak to the housing.

They'll speak to collaboration with first t and we've heard from Mr. Walters about uh the child care center. We want I'm here tonight to talk to you about my area of expertise which is housing.

Tonight you will and in fact already have heard several claims that Virginia Beach doesn't need housing, that housing should go somewhere else in the city, that development south of the Green Line is inappropriate, and the these homes won't and can't be attainable. I respectfully beg to differ. It is true that Virginia Beach lost 1.7% of its population from 2020 to 2025.

At the same time, the population in neighboring Chesapeake increased by 2.4%.

The difference is that during this period, Chesapeake created twice as many new home ownership opportunities as Virginia Beach.

2026 appears to continue this trend. To date, Virginia Beach is on course to deliver 40% fewer homes than in 2025 with just 89 new home closings so far in a a city of 450,000 people at a median price of $734,000.

Surprisingly, there have been more new homes sold for over $1.5 million this year than have been sold for under 500,000.

This condition styy's economic development, relegates young families to rent, to paying rent, and prevents our kids from staying in Virginia Beach.

Annual new home closings in the city are down 59% since 2015. Why? Because there is so little developable land.

Nearly 90% of the construction pipeline here is comprised of apartments for rent. This 48 42 acre parcel which lies outside of the ITA is one place new homes for sale can still be built and provides the perfect complement to the city's plan to attract new employers to a successful and growing innovation park. Cities that lack diverse and attainable housing struggle to recruit employers. So most municipal economic

development strategies treat and I'm sure yours does treats housing stock as a baseline infrastructure requirement alongside a trained workforce and affordable child care and you would be partnering with a developer with a proven track record of meeting the market where it is. We've delivered thousands of homes to working families for nearly six decades. Since the start of 2022, my team has delivered 93% of

all new homes sold under $400,000. And since 2023, 100% of attached new homes priced below $350,000.

They say it can't be done, and to be sure, it's extraordinarily difficult.

But if anyone can, it's us. We hope you'll give us a swing at it, and I humbly request your support tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Jimmy Han and then Mike White.

Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, members of the city council, thank you for giving me this opportunity to come in front of you again. Last time I was here, I talked a little bit about who Century Golf is. Um, this time I figured I'd take the time in in in talking about three areas where we feel like we might be able to activate and actually get more engagement um, with the golf

course. The first area of activation and engagement is actually with the community. We're actually in a pretty cool time now where golf is considered cool and and you've seen a lot of articles that talk about golf being cool. uh it's become a lot less just about the the golf ball, the golf club, and a lot more social centric. And one of the things that we really wanted to do is really activate that and get it to

where there's a lot more community events, a lot more activities that's just not for the male, but it's for the wives, for the kids, the activities to actually bring people out to the club to make it a lot more of a community hub instead of just purely a golf course.

Um, with golf being cool, another thing that has really been impressive and one of the coolest things that we saw when we went out to the to the golf course and the campus is the first T and that's the second area of engagement. It's really about the golf education and bringing new golfers to the golf course.

You're pretty blessed with having not only the the 18hole championship golf course, but the first T there. That's one of the actually one of the more impressive short courses that I've seen to be able to bring more youths out there and not just youth but anybody who wants to pick up a club and actually learn how to play golf to partner with the first te as a trustee of the first

te. Um we believe that there's an opportunity to actually create the programming to get more people out there again not just kids but women and really anybody who who wants to learn the game of golf. The the last area of of engagement actually is through golf tourism. The last time I was here, we talked a little bit about Legends Golf Resort, a club that we run that's u out in Myrtle Beach. We actually since since

uh taking over management of of Legends Resort has has really grown the golf tourism. One of the neat things about Legends Resort is that one of the top five states as far as golf tourism actually is Virginia. North Carolina, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Virginia. We feel like there's a really big opportunity to to be able to fill in some of the gaps through golf tourism.

Make it a more viable solution. Make it actually an amenity of the city to where people will come out to Virginia Beach, not only to vacation, but see Virginia Beach National as a viable opportunity to go out and golf. Um, every time I come out here, I actually see quite a bit of youth activities out here with the youth tournaments and youth sports.

We see there being a way to actually partner with them to bring again more golf tours out here. So, the three areas that we again see opportunity of engagement, one is community, two is education, three is golf tourism. Thank you for your time.

The next speaker is Mike White.

And after Mr. Why is Jamie Glasco?

Jane, who is it?

Jame Jane Glasco.

Good evening. Thank you for having me.

I'd like to begin by being transparent and letting everyone know that I am a current and longtime resident at a Draggas community. I've been there almost a decade and I continue to stay there because they maintain a clean and safe environment. I have quiet, respectful neighbors and the staff is amazing both in the office and on the maintenance team. Now, I understand the opposition here tonight. I really do. We

all have reasons for being here. Some more complex than others, some more noble. But for me, it's simple. Golf. I am an avid golfer. I love the game.

And I am here because I am part of a growing contingent of your everyday average public course playing golfer who is concerned about the decline in the quality of golf this area has to offer.

A decline that we have seen a decline we have seen over the last six to seven years. And yes, that does include reach national.

Limited options due to courses closing, drainage issues everywhere leading to course damage and worsening plane conditions, tighter tea times causing overcrowding and longer rounds.

Okay. Excuse me, sir. I'm going to ask the audience. We respectfully listen to listen to the opposition. Will you please have the courtesy to at least listen to the people? That way everybody gets heard. Thank you.

He needs extra time.

Yeah. Okay. Give you a few extra seconds.

Uh, where is I? Tire tea times causing overcrowding and longer longer routes.

Aren't we a resort town? A coastal resort town. We should be marketing our golf. I can drive an hour and a half south of here to another resort area in the Outer Banks and have an amazing golf experience. Or I can drive an hour and a half north of here to another resort area in Williamsburg and cross off a bucket list golf experience. And here we are right in the middle of both with

nothing that is even close to comparison. After COVID hit in 2020, the interest in golf exploded. People from all walks of life fell in love with the game. Golf is more popular now than it has ever been. It's time to take advantage of that. It's time to revitalize golf in Virginia Beach. We have to start somewhere. And I believe this project at National Proposed by the Draggers Company is a step in the right

direction. Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Jane Glasco Glasco and then David Ellis.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer and members of council. Um I have been in front of you a couple of times speaking about child care um and the critical infrastructure that child care um provides for our communities. Um and so I um want to um express my support for this project um especially in the innovative approach that DRAUS has taken and including child care as part of the infrastructure and

planning. This is something that we have been working on uh across our region uh in many cities to try to approach child care from a different perspective. Um, but you know, several people have talked about economic development and how that's related to child care, uh, affordable housing, attracting young families, attracting, um, the workforce that is here to meet the needs of, um,

the future of Virginia Beach. Um, as Mr.

Walters spoke, um, child care across the region is, uh, the the capacity is much below what the demand is. Um, and if any of you have experienced um, waiting lists for child care, um, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Um, so I just, um, want to support this really innovative approach, um, to including child care, uh, and looking at how it serves the families within the community, um, with affordable housing

and access to child care. Thank you.

The next speaker is David Ellis.

After Miss Mr. Ellis is Meredith Mansfield.

Good evening, mayor, city council members. My name is David Ellis. I was born in Virginia Beach and I've lived here for over 20 years and I'm currently a member of VB National today. I am in support of this proposal.

I've been an avid golfer since my youth and the first te of Virginia Beach and Virginia Beach National have been a part of my life for as long as I can remember. I learned to play golf at the first te. I attended their summer camps.

I played with my dad.

And as I grew older, Virginia Beach Nationals maintained being a part of my life. It's where I learned the game and just as much all of the values that come with it. Integrity, respect, community.

As a member, I still play Virginia Beach National. It's been a it's been a staple of the Virginia Beach golf ecosystem for years, and I firmly believe that this project improves the quality, accessibility, and stature of Virginia Beach National and its surrounding community. This plan invests in the course and the city directly. I believe in the golf operator which has a national reputation for excellence in

golf course management. I believe in the upgrade design, the maintenance, and giving the clubhouse a renovation. This kind of investment has the potential to make Virginia Beach National a world-class course that draws golfers from outside the city and still preserves high impact recreation for Virginia Beach residents. The plan also builds new needed housing on part of this property. not luxury units, but

actual attainable housing in a city that I know needs more of it. This plan strikes a responsible balance between growth and preservation, supports the golf community and its residents. I'm grateful for the council's willingness to consider investing in the city through this project. I grew up down the street. I still play here and I still live here. Golf and Virginia Beach National shaped who I am. It's where I

learned this game and I want to see the city of Virginia Beach, the courses and the first tea of Southampton roads continue to grow in responsible and effective ways and I view this project as a fantastic way to do that. Thank you for your time and for considering this proposal.

The next speaker is Meredith Mansfield.

After Miss Mansfield is Randall Hose Pals.

Hello.

Hello. Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, members of city council, and fellow Virginia Beach residents. My name is Meredith Mansfield. I am a lifelong Virginia Beach resident and working mother raising my family in this city.

Tonight, I'd like to offer a perspective that I haven't heard discussed much throughout these meetings. As parents, we're all asking many of the same questions. Will our children be able to afford to live here one day? Will Virginia Beach remain a community where working people can build a life and not just come to visit? Housing costs continue to rise. Child care is increasingly difficult to afford.

Families are feeling the pressure, mine included. So, no single project solves all of those problems. But I do believe we should pay attention when a proposal seeks to address several community needs at once. What I appreciate about this proposal isn't that it isn't asking us to choose between preservation and progress. It preserves a golf course, a public one that has served generations

of residents and ensures that future generations will continue to have access to the game regardless of whether they can afford a membership at a private club. It creates opportunities for attainable home ownership for people who want to live, work, and raise families in Virginia Beach. And as someone who is preparing to welcome a second child into my family in a few short weeks, I think

a lot about what kind of Virginia Beach we're building for the next generation.

As any parent of young children knows, child care isn't a luxury, and it isn't an abstract policy issue. It's an essential service, critical infrastructure for families, something my family is navigating every day along thousands of other families across our city. It determines whether parents can work, whether employers can attract and retain talent and whether young families can realistically afford to stay and

thrive in our community. The fact that this proposal reserves land for affordable child care sends an important signal about the kind of city we want to be. One that invests not only in buildings and amenities, but in the everyday realities that families face. I understand that residents have questions. Questions about traffic, infrastructure, environmental risks, and growth. These are reasonable and they

deserve thoughtful answers. But after listening to both supporters and opponents, I keep coming back to a simple question.

What will create the most value for our community over the next 50 years? In my view, this proposal preserves a cherished community asset, invest private capital into its future, expands opportunities for families, and creates room for affordable child care that our community desperately needs. As a mother, that's a lens I cannot ignore, and you shouldn't either. The best decisions are not just about preserving

what we have today. They are about creating the conditions for future generations to thrive. I believe this proposal does it and I respectfully encourage your support. Thank you.

The next speaker, the next speaker is Randall House.

Randall House and then Bryce Ash.

Good evening.

Good evening. Good evening.

Get my eyes on here.

My name is Randall House and I'm here in support of the Dragus Company's proposal, Princess Sand Landing, a master plan to revitalize the Virginia Beach National Golf Club. I support this proposal because VB National is going to need a significant investment over the coming years and I believe that the Dragus Companies proposal provides an excellent plan for this investment. The

Dragas Companies as you know are locally owned and familyun since the late 1960s.

They have a stellar reputation for integrity and quality. They have designed 60 plus beautifully crafted communities that are wellmaintained and sustainable. My wife and I have been residents of a dragus communities a draggas company's community for 12 years. We moved into the apartments at Spence Crossing in 2014. We love our apartment home and the neighborhood we live in. The beautifully designed and

maintained community has a coastal living curb appeal that significantly enhances the Princess Anne corridor.

This is a unique sense of there is a unique sense of community and security provided by tenants and staff that enjoy living and working here. The property manager, her front office and maintenance crew are the best in the business. Their personal touch with the dayto-day operation and management of the community makes this a special place to live and is testimony to the kind of organization Dragus is. So, in closing,

I ask you, the men and women of the Virginia Beach City Council, to vote in favor of the Dragas Company's proposal.

Thank you.

The next speaker, The next speaker is Bryce Bryce Ash.

Bryce Esh.

Joan Sharp.

Oh, are you Bryce? Okay.

And then after Bryce will be Joan Sharp.

Um Bryce, my speech teacher would kill me for reading this this way, but if you'll pull your microphone up a little bit, sir.

Pull your mic pull the microphone up a little bit. Thank you.

Thank you. So, good even good evening, mayor and members of city council. Thank you for letting me speak to you tonight.

My name is Bryce Ash. I'm 53 years old.

I work a regular job and I've called Virginia Beach my home for a long time.

There's been a lot of conversation in our community leading up to this moment and I want to address a few critical points directly. Some people have implied campaign contributions could possibly influence how this council votes. I want to say clearly that I trust this body. Every person sitting up there took an oath to serve the public with integrity. I am confident that each of you will make your decision based on

facts. We place our faith in the hands of the leaders we elect and I trust you to honor that responsibility. Uh I want to touch on criticism surrounding closed executive sessions, confidential sessions.

uh or discussions are not only entirely legal under the state law, but they are often necessary when dealing with complex multi-million dollar land and financial matters. Expecting every delicate negotiation to happen in public view from day one is not realistic or practical for any good governance.

Like many people my age, I started a plan for my next chapter and frankly looking at the housing market scares me.

Almost everything being built right now caters exclusively exclusively to luxury buyers, pricing out the everyday working people who keep this city running. That is why I strongly support the project.

Providing over 600 mixed income units with over half designated to attainable housing gives middle class residents a real opportunity to buy a quality home in a new neighborhood.

Sorry, I have a diagnosis and uh it's affecting me. Um but I want to get my message out. Um right now our only option in this price range are aging homes with outdated construction, structural issues, and endless maintenance headaches. The project offers modern, well-built homes and a thriving location, an option that simply doesn't exist in that part of town today. I know there is push back

tonight, but we need to look at those fears honestly. This isn't concrete stretching across open farmland with a mega mall paving over pristine wilderness. Uh, this is taking a heavily managed city-owned golf course and thoughtfully reshaping it to serve both public and recreational h and housing.

It places new homes exactly where they belong, right next to existing roads, homes, and jobs. Regarding traffic and density near the green line, people are already driving down Princess Road.

Okay. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you coming.

Okay. Thank you.

The next speaker is Joan Sharp.

After Miss Sharp is Bill Callahan.

Good evening.

Could you could you pull the microphone down just a little bit? There you go.

Okay. Thank you.

I don't do these mics very often.

Thank you for letting me come and speak tonight about this wonderful project.

My name is Joan Sharp and thank you for that. I am here to express my strong support for the Virginia Beach National Golf Course and Princess Anne Landing.

This project represents more than a golf course. It's an investment in our future as a city.

Change does not happen by accident. It happens on purpose.

As for our 27year-old Beach National Princess Anand course, now is the time to move forward into the new millennium. Now is the time to breathe new life into our city and also offer amenities that no other golf or housing communities offer.

This can become a signature development that enhances Virginia Beach reputation and gives our city something truly unique. Century Golf has proven a track record operating worldclass facilities hosting PGA and LPGA tournaments. We want a venue capable of hosting national and potentially international golf course tournaments.

When a company associated with Walt Disney is involved, you can't go wrong.

Princess Landing will supply a much needed gap in our local housing market.

We want a destination that attracts visitors from across the nation while creating a place where people can live and enjoy the community.

The project will offer 659 home ownership choices in a variety of styles. With the rapid growth pre presenting all the features, Princess Anne Landing could be a one-stop shop decor destination.

New grand entrances and signage will set the tone for welcoming experience and outstanding atmosphere.

The proposed vacation packages for 20 stay and play cottages great will provide members and visitors the opportunity to enjoy the golf experience where they can where they stay. All they have to do is open the door and go score.

As someone who with a trained eye for design, I know much needed renovation uh of the clubhouse with luxury luxurious enhanced features will attract more events than before. Certainly with new atmosphere and new improved menu members can Thank you very much, ma'am. Appreciate you coming.

We are Virginia Beach strong.

The next speaker is Bill Callahan. after Mr. Callahan is guilty.

And please folks, let's be civil. Please, we listen to you. Listen to other people. That's called community.

Go ahead.

Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, and council members. My name is Billy Callahan. I'm a real estate appraiser with Dano and Associates in Virginia Beach. Over the course of my 40 plus years in the real estate appraisal profession, I've had the privilege of working with Dragas on numerous properties encompassing what I believe includes virtually all of their residential developments in South uh

Southside Hampton Roads. Based on that long-standing experience, I can say with confidence that Dragas operates with the precision and coordination of a highly effective, well-run organization.

They're exceptionally well organized and every individual I have encountered within that company has demonstrated a clear and consistent commitment to delivering the highest level of service.

That dedication is evident at every level from leadership and office staff to those working directly in the field.

As a developer, Dragas has proven has a proven record of creating communities that truly stand the test of time. Their neighborhoods are consistently well-maintained, reflect strong construction standards, and quality craftsmanship, and have demonstrated and s a sustained ability to retain and increase value over the years. As an avid golfer, I was particularly encouraged to see the plans for the

redesigned golf course. I have also spoken with fellow golfers who share that enthusiasm and who will view the proposed improvements as very favorable in the long run.

In closing, should you decide to to choose to move forward with these plans, I believe Draggas would be an outstanding partner to consider. Drawing on more than four decades of professional experience working with them, I have a high level of confidence in both their organization and their ability to successfully execute a project of this significance.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Gilmore Berkeland.

Gilmore Berkeland and then Drew Veos.

Good evening. First, let me say I am not advocating for a position or decision here one way or another. I was asked to come express my uh experiences with the Draggas company as a homeowner and resident and I'm pleased to do that because it's been very very positive and and I I feel uh I feel that they've done a tremendous job uh as as just a resident here for the past 5 years we've

lived uh in one of their apartment complexes in town center and I thought the uh experience was excellent staff forwardleaning very responsive to customer needs and once our kids are out of college and landed jobs in the local area, we decided to to go home shopping again. We looked at a number of builders in the area and decided to build with Dragas. This was the third home we've

built over the last 25 years and by far away the best experience to date.

Quality of the home is excellent. The staff has been very accommodating from the from the site agents to the mortgage company to the folks who did the orientation. All team members were very professional, great attention to detail and they did everything to ensure a smooth transition. So, our experience has been positive. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Drew Vos and then Tim Lenny.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, and members of city council. My name is Drew Vos. I'm a lifelong resident of Virginia Beach. As a kid, I learned to play golf at the first te.

Later, as part of my high school golf team, we played tournaments at VB National. And today, as vice president of the Dragus Companies, I'm part of the team that has crafted the proposal before you. Tonight, you have a chance to imagine what this golf campus can be for the next generation. You can help secure the future of public golf for kids like I was. Our master planned vision was inspired by decades of

council recommendations, studies, and overlays. VB National anchors the Princess Anne Athletic Village and golf is the central focus of our plan. By investing tens of millions of dollars of private funds into the course, we will enhance this local community asset and establish a recreational economic driver and destination. The golf course also sits within the Princess Commons special

economic growth area, which plans for long-term balanced growth of employment and industry, recreation, and education.

Private investment into new housing here helps the city retain employers and grow the tax base, creating a major new tax revenue stream that helps fund critical city services. And our plan meets the comprehensive plans courthouse center edge zone standards with numerous residential styles and amenities. Our project proposes infill development adjacent to other existing residential

and retail. All homes are outside of the ITA, balancing the Navy's identified need for housing with existing land use guidelines. This is an area long planned for growth. Although the golf course is below the green line, so is the Princess Anne Hospital. this entire municipal center and nearly the entirety of the Princessand Commons special economic growth area. A district that is strategically envisioned for unique

master plans like this focused on open space and active recreation. And our residential density is equal to the adjacent Southern Pines apartments which was unanimously approved by city council in 2014 and is also located within Princess Anne Commons right here in district 2. Our proposal elevates this golf course with private funds and builds upon its recreational legacy while delivering what the comp plan and

Princess Commons plan ask of us, new options for forale housing and active open spaces that expand access to public recreation. More people should use and benefit from this property than the tiny share of your constituents who do now. I learned the fundamentals of golf at the first te, but the lessons that it taught me about character, integrity, and perseverance mattered so much more. I

hope that the next generation can have that same experience at a renewed public off-campus just like I did. And I thank you very much and ask for your support.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Tim Litty.

After Mr. Lady is Brian Stro.

Good evening. My name is Tim Litty. I'm honored to be here tonight as a golf course architect for the Princess Anne landing proposal.

For more than 28 years, I had the privilege of working side by side with Pete Dye. Mr. Dy was not only one of the greatest golf course architects in history, he was a mentor and a friend. I learn from him every day how to think strategically about a golf hole, how to challenge golfers while still making the game enjoyable, and most importantly, how to design golf courses for the people who actually play them.

I started my own firm in 1993 and since then have renovated many P die golf courses throughout the United States including some of the most respected die designs in the country. Courses like the stadium course at PGA West and the farms and they all retained their name and heritage as a Pete Dye design.

When I talk about Pete Dye, it's personal.

It's difficult to put into words what it's like to spend three decades learning from him. But one thing Pete taught me is that great golf courses are not meant to be frozen in time.

Golf courses have a life cycle. Grasses evolve.

Irrigation systems and bunkers deteriorate.

And the way golfers play the game changes. Renovation is part of the natural cycle of maintaining and preserving great golf courses. Even Mr.

Dye, when he returned to renovate his own designs, did not simply recreate what was there decades earlier. He adapted and improved them for the next generation of golfers.

This is the approach I would take at BB National. Our proposal honors Pete Dy's legacy and creates a new chapter with a revitalized 18hole par 72 golf course that remains familiar to the community with similar yardage and a commitment to championship caliber golf experience.

For the past several months, I've spent time with VB National members, walk the course and listen to what they love about it. I have also heard honest feedback about what needs improvement, turf conditions, bunkers, consistency, and overall playability.

Those conversations will shape this design.

One of our priorities was to always achieve a complete separation between golf and residential.

No homes on fairways are interfering with interfering with the golf experience.

The separation will be reinforced by a significant lake feature creating a clear physical and visual boundary between the two uses.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate you coming.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Brian Strong and then Reginald Buchanan.

Mayor, Vice Mayor, Council members, and staff. Uh, thanks for having us here.

So, my name is Brian Strum. I'm the senior vice president of aronomy for Century Golf Partners. I got the best job in the world. I get to talk about turf. So, a little upbeat about this.

Uh, we run about 60 golf courses throughout the US. Um, you know, this full room here is is actually exciting.

It tells me there's passion about this place, that it's important to the community, and we really want to be a part of that. Um, so the two things I'm going to talk to you today about, we we kind of covered last time I was here, uh, my friend Tim Litty. Uh, you just heard him speak. He's very modest. Um, at once, not any part of his speech did he talk about what he's going to do to

that. He he's talking about what he's going to restore that Pete D put there and Alice, you know, compliments the her design over on the first TE. So, um, watching him do the work that he's done with our company and other courses that I've been to that he's designed, uh, you're we're going to be in a really good spot. We're going to get that Pete die design back.

He's going to he's going to please, he's going to it's it's going to be so so uh reinvigorating for this community to have that Pete D back. Um, one of the cool things about my job is I get to it's it's it's no fault of anybody. We take over golf courses, we buy golf courses. Over time, they just deteriorate. They age like anything in life. So, I get to go in and help uh do

all the reconstruction, do uh construction management, work with people like Tim Litty to get these things back. Um, and that's really going to be exciting about this place is that it needs that capital influx. It needs a path. that needs a vehicle to get this done. It's no fault if anybody's here why we're at, but where we can take this place uh with this private capital, where we can get this thing, it's just

going to be it's going to be great for the city. It it's going to be so cool.

And then we talked about a little bit last time about that that journey from the very first swing over at the first te to the championship. This this facility is just one of a kind in the US. Um, I talked about my daughter taking her first uh swing of last time I was here. Now every weekend we're going to the par three by our house and it's just such a great uh testament to what

can happen with these facilities. So, you know, this is an important part of your community.

We look at it as we'd be honored to be a steward of that and we really think this is this is going to be great for everything going here. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

The next speaker is Regginal Buchanan.

After Mr. Buchanan is Ben Huger.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, members of the Virginia Beach City Council. I'm Reginald Buchanan, and I'm in favor of draggers doing the redevelopment of the National Golf Club.

This redevelopment plan includes building 659 homes and two of the four home types being built. The terrace homes in the garden flats will be price targeted.

This will give many working families a realistic chance opportunity to own a home. Uh and the lack of affordable available child care options impacts household incomes also.

Uh, Dragas will build a child care facility and address the critical shortage of quality care. And I think it's important to support families who are struggling and I think Dragas and the city council do too. Uh, and alco also a Timothy Litty uh, golf course would be an upgrade to the golf course.

I've lived in the Dragas built apartment which is run by Dragas staff which is outstanding since 2018 and that dragg staff they care about the community um they care about u the property is kept clean is well managed um safe and attractive year round the clubhouse the wait room the pool um the landscaping is beautiful so if you hire draggers you're going to hire a great staff have also thank you.

The next speaker is Ben Huger.

After Mr. Huger is Marcy Marcia Glenn.

Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, City Council. My name is Ben Eugi and I'm speaking in favor of the Dragas development. While I support the upgrades to the golf course to bring a better experience for residents and tourists alike, my key reason for supporting this project is Dragus' track record of of delivering affordable housing in Virginia Beach. I spent my last three years serving as president of

Habitat for Humanity of Southampton Roads, and I understand the difficulty firsthand at developing affordable housing here in Virginia Beach.

According to the city's own real estate assessors report from 2025, 2thirds of new residential properties built in 25 were priced at or above half a million dollars. If you take a look at the AMI, what this means is that 2thirds of new development last year is unaffordable for the vast majority of this city's residents. Dragus has separated itself when it comes to addressing affordable housing in this

city. Spence Crossing, for example, located just down the road, offered similar homes to this current proposal, which are some of the most affordable new construction here in Virginia Beach.

The city's 2627 annual HUD action plan notes a key priority by the city of Virginia Beach, and I quote, to improve the quality, accessibility, and quantity of affordable owner occupied housing. If the city wishes to have individuals who work in this community to have a stake in this community, we must not push them in the surrounding cities to find affordable housing. Dragus' longstanding

commitment and experience in developing affordable housing at scale not only benefits working families in our community, but progresses the city's own objectives. I understand there are positives and negatives to any project, but I feel the positives outweigh the negatives in this case. Thank you all.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Marcia Glenn.

After Miss Glenn is Jim Cahoun, Miss Glenn, is that her?

Yeah.

Are you Miss Glenn?

Hello.

Okay. And then Jim Cahoun, you're next.

Good evening and thank you for your time. My name again is Marca Glenn. I'm a long-term resident of Virginia Beach.

I adopted Virginia Beach as my hometown, having been raised in the Navy and married in the Navy. Um, I spent most of my 40-year banking career doing homes, home state, home closings and loans. And it's very important to me that I see on the news that home ownership is getting further and further away from our new our young families because although since co there have been substantial pay raises the statistic

I've seen is that twothirds of the raise has already been taken away by inflation. So, our families are struggling, particularly our young families with children because home ownership has been a major goal in this country since World War II and it's starting to slip away. It's important to look at how we can start providing better homes to help these families have good lives.

If you look at the golf course community with the homes that are going to be built, we're going to see homes that are going to be provided to your city employees, your military, your civil service, and your medical folks that work not far away. This is important as there are few of your homes available.

One of the thing about the Draggas communities, let me say this, I worked for Dragas for 10 years, but I also but I also owned a Dragus community from 2004 to 2015.

And let me say that these communities are self- sustaining. They are set up so beautifully that their legal documents require these communities to stand on their own without without outside help.

Once the builder is done and turns the community over to the homeowners association, these communities are able to stand on their own with their homeowners association and their management company and take care of themselves without being a drain on city coffers.

I will also say their legal documents are so beautifully drafted that these communities are self- sustaining and are able to direct to the people that take over that they are stayed they stay in pristine shape whether it's their buildings their grounds their amenities all these people are required appreciate to keep them perfect.

The next speaker is Jim Cahoun.

After Mr. Kahune is Bill Young.

Good evening, Mayor U. City Council members and staff. My name is Jim Kahoon. I'm the owner and vice president of Bay Environmental located in Chesapeake, Virginia. Uh we're assisting dragage management with review of natural resources related to the proposed rehabilitation and redevelopment of this property including issues related to bald eagles. Um I've handled multiple cases involving bald

eagles nest including the continued development of the Cedar Point golf course and I come to the unite with 30 years of natural resource experience right here in Hampton Roads.

Um bald eagles are a protected species.

We know that under the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act of 1940.

Additionally, there are National Bald Eagle Management Guidelines from 2007 and general permit conditions for potential disturbance of an eagle's nest. Some key principles from those documents include seeing an eagle roosting in a tree does not mean it's a nesting site. Um, disturbance of an actual nest is prohibited without a permit from US Fish and Wildlife Service. Certain activities within 660

ft of that nest are considered disturbing to the eagles if you're within the nesting season. Uh activities including some development are allowable within that 660 ft as long as structures generally remain more than 330 ft from the nest and it's outside of the nesting season. We've discussed this site with the Northeast Regional Eagle Coordinator for the US Fish and Wild Service.

They've provided additional guidance related to development. It's important to note that the one nest currently mapped by William Mary's Center for Conservation um biology on the existing hole number four, which it's literally on top of the T uh T- box right next to the cart path. You can see it very plainly, um is within an area that Dragus does not propose redevelopment or reconfiguration of the golf course,

including the entire 660 ft buffer.

The first step after a nest appears on the CCB mapping is field verification to confirm it's actually an active bald eagle's nest and not another species such as osprey or black vulture, which I played golf this week out there and we saw both species. Uh once confirmed, we survey its precise location. We establish that 330 and 600 foot uh 660 ft buffers and we evaluate any proposed

activity against those buffers in the nesting season. If there's any potential for disturbance, we coordinate with the US Fish and Wildlife Service and secure the appropriate permit before any work proceeds. It's certainly not the intent of the proposed development to disturb bald eagles or otherwise damage the environment. We'll continue to coordinate with US Fish and Wildlife Service throughout the project and I

thank you for your time.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Bill Young.

After Mr. Young is Howard Sykes.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor and members of council. My name is Bill Young. I've lived in Virginia Beach for 25 plus years, raised two kids through the public schools, and Virginia Beach is my home.

Um, I'm here tonight in support of this proposal because I believe our city must create housing opportunities for current and future residents. The reality is that Virginia Beach is largely built out.

We don't have many developable sites left and this is an opportunity that allows us to add housing while preserving community assets and anything that does that I think deserves your serious consideration. What I find compelling about this project is that it accomplishes several important goals at once. Creates new housing, including housing that will be more attainable for more families than much of what is being

built today. And at the same time, it preserves and strengthens two valuable assets, the first TE and VB National.

First TE's has been great for my family.

Taught my son how to play golf. Several several summers of summer camp, went back as a camp counselor, even reintroduced my wife to the game. As an adult, there just aren't many places a family can learn to play golf and then play together at an affordable price. It also ensures that Virginia Beach National remains a public golf course while receiving the investment needed to remain viable and relevant for years to

come. I think it's important to recognize the council often hears from people who oppose growth, but not always from people who support thoughtful increases to the housing supply. Across our region, we've seen the consequences of not building enough housing. We've fallen behind as rents and housing prices have increased relative to other regions. Construction hasn't kept up while assessments have skyrocketed. No

single project is no single project will solve this issue, but this project moves us in the right direction. I respectfully ask you to support this proposal and thank you for your time and consideration.

The next speaker is Howard Sykes.

The next speaker is Howard Sykes.

After Mr. Sykes is wearing Web.

Good evening, mayor.

Um, Miss Wilson, vice mayor, one of my favorite people.

Yeah, I have to I have to say that u a few minutes ago that was the first time anybody really laughed at my my condominium documents, but there's a first for everything. I'm here tonight.

I've heard all the um discussions, so I'm not going to I'm going to change my topics that I was going to talk about. I have to tell you that at every closing I come to, I have little or no one that's dissatisfied with the drag home. Many times they come back and buy another drag home when their family changes or different people uh move or come back.

But there is almost no discussion about punch list or any problems. They also at every closing take a quality control survey from the people to get feedback on how they did. And it's important that you get that feedback so they can make it and come better.

The shortage of housing in our area is dramatic.

Um I think that's been talked about. If you ride through Moyok on your way to Nagad, most of those people are in those houses. Some of them came from Virginia Beach and that's because they can afford that. Air City costs are higher.

I think it needs to be pointed out that Draggus is probably the most reliable builder in our area. During the um dry drywall dilemma with the Chinese, Dragas moved and took care of every person who had a problem. Move them out of their house, moved the furniture, gave them up an allowance, money to pay their bills while they were out, paid their condo fees, and then fixed the drywall. Took it out, redid the house.

No, their personal money was used and then they filed suit for to recoup out of the insurance, but they had no insurance money when they spent millions of dollars to help the people. That's the type of person and type of company that you're talking about. I know there's a lot of criticism on every builder. I think that's the nature of the beast.

But I can recommend to you, I've represented many, many, many big builders and little builders, and you've got one of the best here that you'll ever have.

The next speaker is wearing Web.

After Mr. Web is Richard Maddox.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, and members of city council. My name is Warrington Web. I'm a lifelong resident of Virginia Beach and the finance associate at the Draggas Companies. Tonight, I want to briefly cover the financial aspects of this proposal and the additional tax revenue the project will generate.

The current golf course financial arrangement is unsustainable. Today, the city is only $750,000 in the VBADA account dedicated to Virginia Beach National. That is a drop in the bucket of the $7.7 million of identified and otherwise unfunded deferred maintenance issues. We are proposing a sustainable path forward that is overwhelmingly funded by the private sector. First and most importantly, the project would start

with Dragas writing a $17.9 million check.

The project begins with tens of millions of dollars of private money.

Please, folks, not public. As some have as some have done tonight, calling a check that Dragas writes public money is like saying the property taxes every homeowner pays were public money all along, even before the government ever touched them.

Dragus' $17.9 million check will immediately go into an escro account at closing to ensure that the golf course is revived in the storm water remediation finally happens. When Dragas may become While Dragus may become the title owner of record for the course and fully responsible for all future maintenance liabilities, we will not hold clear title as the city maintains a repurchase rate. Dragas will

additionally write checks totaling another $18.4 million for additional golf course facilities and amenities.

Private funding outweighs public, nearly six to1 in this proposal. even if unforeseen development costs arise.

Folks, can we please have the courtesy to let a speaker speak like we let the opposition. Thank you.

Even if unforeseen development costs arise and public contingencies are fully used, private funding is still nearly four times the public investment in the golf course. And that does not include the hundreds of millions of dollars Dragas will invest in the residential community. When we invest this money into the residential community, we hire local contractors who pay local business

taxes and who hire local employees.

These revenues to the city are not even considered in the $3.4 million of additional annual tax revenue connected to this proposal. The $3.4 million of additional tax revenue comes mainly from real estate taxes on the new homes and putting the golf course land onto the city tax roles. This adds up to between 120 and $130 million over 30 years.

Depending on the depending on the if the performance grant is necessary, funds like this can be spent on projects that serve all citizens of Virginia Beach, like continuing to invest in our police and firefighters, upgrading our roads and schools, and vastly improving the impact above and beyond its current state. Thank you for your Thank you.

The next speaker is Richard Maddox.

After after Mr. Maddox is Mac Weaver.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, members of city council. My name is Richard Maddox, a longtime resort businessman and a former Virginia Beach Council member myself. I'm here tonight to speak in support of the Draggas Company's proposal.

You will hear a great deal about land, economics, Gulf development, and the future of this important property tonight. But I want to focus on a simpler question. With whom are you dealing? And perhaps more importantly, can you trust them to do what they say they'll do?

The history of the Draggas companies answers that question. In 2007, Hel Helen Dragus and the Draggas companies voluntary com voluntarily committed $1.5 million of their own money to address the regional problem of family homelessness. Three cities, including Virginia Beach, used these funds to improve the lives and thus the educational prospect of housing insecure children living in poverty. Nobody

required them to do it. It wasn't part of a mandate in a development deal. They simply saw it as a serious problem and stepped forward to help address it.

Think about that for a moment. Had they simply invested the 1.5 million for themselves in the S&P 500, it would be worth $18 million today. Instead, they invested it in families and children who needed help. There are other examples.

When the Chinese drywall crisis devastated homeowners across the country, Dragus unhesitatingly stood behind its customers and went well beyond its legal commitments. Which brings me to something that matters enormously in the decision before you tonight. With this company, Handshake, I'm sorry, with this company, their word is their bond. Long ago, business was done on a handshake. And that commitment

meant every bit as much as a piece of paper. You cannot write that kind of reputation into a proposal. You cannot manufacture it for a public hearing. It is earned one decision, one commitment, one decade at a time. You aren't being asked to take a chance on a developer making promises. You have an extensive record to examine. A company that gives back when it doesn't have to. A company

that understands that partnerships and opportunities carry serious responsibilities. And ultimately, good partnerships depend on trust. Something people earn over the long arc of history. Not when things are easy, but when real problems arise and things get tough. The Draggas Company's unblenmished history of integrity is their reference. On a personal note, I've known Helen Dragas for 25 years,

and during that time, I found her to be a person of the utmost character and integrity. So tonight, I respectfully ask you to support this proposal. Thank you.

Thank you.

The next speaker is M. Weaver.

After Mr. Weaver is Stanton McDuffy.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, and members of city council. My name is M. Weaver, and I'm vice president of the Draggas Companies. I'm here to address the false claim that the golf course is being redeveloped with public money. It is not. Draggas is investing 36.3 million of private funds into the golf course property, including 17.9 million in course renovations and an additional 18.4 million of other

enhancements and amenities. Claiming public funds redevelop the course strips context and amidst the fact that Dragus is providing the funding, tens of millions of dollars that the city would otherwise need to appropriate to preserve and enhance public golf. How much of that can be attributed to the value of the course? One indication would be the RFP responses. According to what's been publicly stated by

respondents or released so far under FOYA, golf only acquisition bids range from a low of $350,000 to a high of 4.5 million. Property assessments tell the same story. The average assessment of Virginia Beach's eight public courses is 4.2 million. Even Bayville Golf Club, widely considered the best course in the region with its waterfront play and sweeping views, is assessed for only

7.25 25 million and that's after two multi-million dollar renovations. Why would Dragas invest 17.9 million for a golf course that garnered a high bid of 4.5 million and at best could be worth 7.25 million post renovation? Because the city has the unique opportunity to monetize the value of the land outside the ITA that can be used for housing by relying on private funds that preserve a

publicly accessible championship caliber course for generations rather than requiring public dollars to do so. At the same time, it takes itself off the hook for future maintenance expenses while still maintaining control of the property. The argument that the golf course is free attempts to isolate one component of a multifaceted development that solves a number of city issues. An

age course, a choked off supply of both housing and childare, and virtually no tax revenue from this property that routinely serves only onetenth of 1% of your constituents. Here's the math that's been left out. Dragus spends 17.9 million renovating the golf course, another 18.4 4 million on additional enhancements and in return is an asset worth at most 7.25 million. There's a reason golf courses are closing faster

than they're opening nationwide. The cost to build or renovate one exceeds what it's worth when you're done. That gap isn't a giveaway to drag us. It's a sound financial decision by this council to protect the future of public golf in Virginia Beach. Thank you and I respectfully ask for your support.

The next speaker is Stan McDuffy.

After Mr. McDuffy is Scott Heler.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, Vice Mayor Wilson, and members of council. My name is Stant McDuffy, and I'm a lifelong Virginia Beach resident. I've had the opportunity to watch this city evolve over the years. I'm a real estate professional and I also own and operate a small business in the resort area.

Virginia Beach has so many things that make people want to live here. The oceanfront and boardwalk continue to bring great events and energy to the city. The vibe district has turned into an exciting neighborhood over the last several years. And personally, some of the things I value most about living here are simple things like being able to fish, surf, and duck hunt on public land in the wintertime. Our city has

done a great job creating reasons for people to want to be here. What we are missing is enough opportunity for people my age to actually put down roots here.

I'm personally at the point where I would like to stop renting and buy a home in Virginia Beach. But finding new attainable housing for someone who is still early in a career and trying to build a small business is very difficult. If people my age cannot find a realistic path to home ownership here, they're going to look elsewhere. We have sister cities right next door where there are more affordable opportunities

to buy a home and start building equity.

People may still work in Virginia Beach, come here for entertainment and enjoy everything our city has to offer, but they will choose to make their home somewhere else. I think that is also a major reason why so many people who grew up here leave for college and never come back. Is not because Virginia Beach lacks things to do or places to work.

The attractions are here. The jobs are here. What is increasingly difficult to find is a place to stay and build a life. Virginia Beach has built the reason for people to stay. Now we need to build the homes that allow them to stay and multiply. As a golfer, I also think having a well-run, publicly accessible golf course adds another piece to that quality of life. A lot of people my age love to play golf, but

joining a private club is simply unrealistic for us. Public access gives residents another amenity they can actually use and enjoy.

I mentioned earlier that I am a public land duck hunter and preserving the beautiful na natural areas of Virginia Beach is extremely important to me. I want to take a moment to acknowledge that the VB National Golf Course does sit on a gorgeous piece of land, but it is not a nature preserve. If it was, I would certainly be here tonight in opposition of any development of the land. VB National is a beautiful but

underperforming asset of the city that has turned into a liability and it's time to allow outside investment to bring it back to its former glory. At the end of the day, we have great things to do and great places to work, but we need places for people to live. Most people agree that Virginia Beach needs more housing. The challenge is that everyone wants the housing built somewhere other than in their own

backyard. At some point, this becomes a clear choice. We can say we want more housing and more opportunities for young people to stay in Virginia Beach or we can continue opposing projects that actually provide them. For those reasons, I support the project and I appreciate council's comments.

Thank you very much. Appreciate your comments.

Excuse me. The next speaker is Scott Heler. After Mr. Heler is Matt Ies.

Good evening. Good evening, members of city council. My name is Scott Heler, and I'm here tonight in support of this project.

I work in the insurance business here in Virginia Beach, so I spend most of my days talking with people about one of the most important financial decisions, owning and protecting their home. And one thing I've seen is how difficult it's become for people in the housing market. There simply aren't enough for sale homes being built for people who want to live and work here. But that shortage doesn't just affect someone

looking to buy their first home. When there are fewer homes available, competition for the homes that do exist uh increases, values rise, and existing homeowners can feel the effects through higher property taxes and the overall cost of owning a home. In fact, according to the real estate assessor, Virginia Beach's total real estate assessment has grown by roughly 67% since 2018.

That's one reason I think adding housing to Virginia Beach is so important. As an avid golfer, I also think this proposal presents an opportunity that goes well beyond housing. One aspect of Dragus' plan that has been somewhat overlooked is the partnership with Century Golf. To bring a golf firm of this caliber to Virginia Beach is a tremendous win and opportunity for the city. Century has

extensive experience operating premier golf facilities and hosting major professional events including PGA and LPGA tournaments.

I'm not aware of any other local operator who who can say the same.

Century's national network and expertise give VB National the opportunity to become a great local public course that is also a destination that attracts new golfers, tournaments, and events throughout the region and beyond.

And when golfers travel to Virginia Beach, they stay in our hotels, eat in our restaurants, shop at local businesses, and spend money throughout the community. To me, that's a significant economic development uh opportunity. Sorry. Uh with significant private investment, we can add muchneeded housing, lower the tax burden on all homeowners, strengthen public golf, grow sports tourism,

and reduce the city's future financial burden all through this thoughtful development.

I think that's pretty compelling. I hope you guys will consider this project.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Matt Ies.

Matt Ives. And then Emily Rexy.

Uh good evening council. This is my first time ever speaking in public like this. Hey everybody. How you doing? Mom, I'm sorry. I said I would wear a nicer shirt for this. Everybody thinks we should have better maintained green spaces in the city of Virginia Beach.

Yes. Everybody thinks that hotels take up too much space and we should have more housing in the city of Virginia Beach. Yes. Everybody wants more government money.

You got to speak to the mic.

Sorry, like I said, I don't do this.

Thanks, Bo. Um, everybody wants more housing availability in the city. And here's Helen, a longtime resident willing to help us all and do this sort of thing to bring hundreds of millions of dollars in money to the city to help.

Oh, YEAH.

OKAY. And then the company pays guys like me. They're paying plumbers and drywallers, roofers, electricians, concrete guys.

Tim, you're out of order. Tim, he's been out of order ALL NIGHT.

HE'S TALKING TO ME.

OKAY. TALKING TO THE I'M TALKING to the city. You're the one hollering over my time and it all.

Okay. Come on. Let's Let's get it together, folks. Face me right now.

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

The city needs more people to help fund the coffers that cover all of our expenses, all our roads, the development, the help at the base, the hospitals. We need to be a get a better job. That's right. More people need to have better jobs and they need to be made available by people with money to spend like Helen Draus. They need to be made by the YMCA and companies like

Galaxy Golf that are coming in to help and take care of these things. They're providing the opportunities that the people want, but they seem to just decide that it's not right for them. It doesn't make any sense to me. I've sat here all night and I've heard politely, well, you know, my side listens and the other side booze and raves. I just don't understand it. I've spent my entire life

in this city. I work in people's homes.

I see what they need and what they want and how they live. Okay. I I don't know why we can't have this project helped by the city. Please. They're offering to help take care of the golf course.

They're offering to help provide better child care and make the housing market more available and affordable in the city. What's wrong with this? Thanks.

But I don't I see you get it. I see you get it. I see so many faces here on the council that do. And there's so many more here and there's more in town that don't come in and see this, but they all feel the same way. Uh, I got 30 seconds left. Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer.

Thank you.

Next speaker is Emily Rexy.

Emily Rexy.

Elaine Fecky.

Elaine.

Oh, Miss Elaine Fcky and then Ben Ellisarpoo.

Good evening. We've heard a lot tonight and we want to bring it back to the people's opinion right now. I'm not here to talk about the Dragus company. I'm sure they're a fine company. I'm not here to talk about who knew what about the plan and when they knew it. I'm not here to talk about the golf course. I'm not a golfer, but I know the golfers are in favor of keeping it a golf course.

What I'm here to talk about tonight is the fact that you as a city council have failed to do your duty to to look at the effects of the whole plan. You're looking at the story board. You're looking at the map of the golf course and the 659 units and not the perimeter of that. I've been there. A lot of people have been there. 659 units plus 200 for the silo you approved plus the

240 that are already there at Southern Pines is,00 housing units all on both sides and behind one Harris ter grocery store.

This is the green line. It's not supposed to prevent all development but,00 units is high density development. Period. End of story.

And where you have failed to do your duty is wondering how many cars, 1100 units were produced. Let's be conservative. Let's say it's two cars per unit. That's 2,000 cars. Guess what?

They're going to work. They're going to appointments. You're putting them on two egresses on either side of Harris ter at a roundabout that leads to a high school. A high school. Why is that important? Because they don't ride the bus. They're driving. So that's all of those cars twice a day. You're putting the cars out on a street across from the courthouse and the municipal center.

Everyone that's coming to do their business at the municipal center will add to that and feel the crunch. The emergency vehicles, the police headquarters is there. How many cars can you possibly put in that half a mile area?

Why hasn't this question Why hasn't this question been asked? I know there's debate on who knew what and when, but the bottom line, each and every single one of you knew last October that this was coming and should have directed your staff to do the traffic study, not look at and approve a plan before you have done a traffic study. an infrastructure study, a stormwater study. You're talking about

the Dragus company being so great in giving money for what's inside the plan.

You're not looking outside the plan. And I want to give you, hate to bust your bubble, but everybody needs to look at the real estate market right now. We do not have a shortage of inventory. And at least one of you should know that inventory of houses is up. Bobby, don't give me that look. Don't Hey, don't shake your head at me. Do Do not You can look at the statistics. Inventories are

up. Yeah, I guess it is because you shook your head. Inventories are up 12% and days on market are two.

The next speaker is Vincu.

After Mr. Ellis Warpoo is Waverly Woods.

Okay, folks, let's get it together, please.

I'm not here to talk about what I want.

What do the people of Virginia Beach want for the National Golf Course? In an online poll of 200 residents in a random sample of poll open to everyone on Next Door, only 9% of the respondents want the city to sell the property to Dallas to Dragas and build 659 condos. 48% of people want the city to hold on to the property and maintain it. Another significant number of 43% want to sell

the golf course to a private owner but maintain the current 18hole golf course and not build any housing there. What are the key concerns people have about the draggers deal? Number one, a flawed and contaminated process where the city staff were secretly meeting draggers for more than a year prior to the RFP and the same staff were on the selection board when the RFP was issued. Number

two, the RFP was a bait and switch. All the other bidders were not told about the additional 42 acres of land and housing, but Dragas was in on this arrangement.

Number three, the $20 million corporate welfare handout of taxpayers money to drag us takes away money from the CIP projects like Indian River Road, Pongoy Road, Pleasure House Road, and Show Drive.

Number four, financials are based on an inadequate and misleading financial impact analysis. The city claims a positive net present value of $18 million. However, this is based only on additional tax revenues from 659 new homes, but it ignores the additional cost of city services to these 1300 people. People don't move here just to pay taxes. They want city services in return. If a CEO of a private company

puts out a financial statement only with revenues and not costs, he'll go to jail under Sarbain Oxley Act. Please read upon that.

The truth is that a more honest analysis indicates a potential loss of $22 million to taxpayers. I'm not a political strategist, but I would think it would not be politically prudent to go against 91% of the people in an election year. Some of you are running for election. GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

NEXT SPEAKER IS WAVERLY WOODS. After after Miss Woods is Rob Ballentine.

Waverly Woods.

And then Rob Valentine.

Okay, as predicted, we are here.

Now, what I'd like to do is uh remind you of what the word reasonable means.

Because in this new contract, we allow our city manager, Mr. Duhaney, and our city attorney, Mr. Styles, to redefine the word reasonable. it and the word reasonable means fair, sensible and based on good judgment thoughts. It also describes things that are not too expensive or amounts that are acceptable and moderate rather than extreme.

We're certainly not getting that with this deal.

Storm water drainage just for you, Councilman Hutchinson. Uh on a golf course manages runoff, prevents soil erosion, and protects turf quality.

systems utilized in combination of uh perforated subsurface pipes catches basins and vegetated swailes to collect access water redirecting uh it to uh retention ponds and storage filters and through uh through constructed wetlands to remove pollution wetlands that whole silo project and this right on the wetlands you're going to have all kinds of storm water drainage And that's why

it has to go to Draus so that the silo project can get their drainage dealt with.

It's a sham. It's a sham. And you talk about respect, Bobby, but you give none.

We read your Facebook post. How much of our tap funding pays for all those surveys you post about how great it is to live here? I'm curious. And I wonder how much of your votes, Josh, go to that uh go to McCcluskey and the Marlin Bay projects. It's all clear who owns you and it's not us. You are supposed to be working for us. Stacy, you did great work over at um Priority and you should

be proud of it. You shouldn't let anybody take that from you. But here, you're cheating on us. Every single one of you treat us like we've got battered wife syndrome. It is disgusting. We're not buying it. We don't think this is a great deal. We own calculators.

We know the math. When Dragus gives us 17.9 and you turn around and give her 17 back, that's called not paying for it.

We don't need to pay for golfers to have a daycare center either. The loss of farmland in resoning. They'll never get that back. Barbara, you have tainted your parties with Democrats and Republicans. You're all Democrats and Republicans and you've tainted the parties. They have no credibility anymore. These candidates for city council, I don't care if they're on a Democrat or a Republican ballot. They're

not owned by Dragus and neither am I.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Rob Valentine.

After Mr. Valentine is Chris Taylor.

First of all, just remember you all created this, not us.

First, everyone here tonight that opposes this deal, I need you to quietly stand up. Remain standing. But remember, I need my three minutes to respectfully ask that you applause afterwards. Yeah, we the people provide you a counter offer to be considered tonight concerning your vote that you're so impatiently wanting to take. Take a pause. There should be no rush. Be transparent. Do your due diligence.

VBN's not going anywhere. Dragus certainly isn't going anywhere. Motion to defer. Three of you. Three of you need to stand up. Show that you represent those that have heard you.

This is bigger than just a golf course.

You may have been pressured by others on council and drag us to vote their way.

Take a stand for your constituents. Show us we can trust you with our land and our money. Sometimes doing the right thing is hard, but it shows your true character. Make necessary repairs to VBN and seek other options. instead of giving away $36 million used the less than $4 million for repairs that should have been done by the VBDA but was not which was outlined by the city auditor's

report in October 2023. All of you know that this is the truth we're talking about now. There was a lot of pressure on some of you. Those of you thought that this was going to be an easy done deal might want to consider the following. The federal lawsuit. It's hanging on you like an anchor dragging the bottom of the ocean. You cannot hide from it. Running away shows we the people that you're scared and you hope

it goes away. It will not. The fact that the federal lawsuit had to be filed should tell everyone that we're going to hold you accountable if you're involved.

The federal court system will now determine your path for the future. Our hope is that it holds the accountable you accountable for past, present, and future.

Now, we have the FOYA. That's what caught you. Specifically identified were Mr. a mayor, vice mayor, councilman Beluchcci and others with Helen Dragas to get this done. You are supposed to work for us the people, not a developer.

Now, number three, public perception of unethical behavior. Do those words sound familiar? I do solemnly swear I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia. I will faithfully and impartially discharge all my duties incumbent upon me according to the best of my ability. That's the oath you all took under code 491. Mr. Shman,

you were incorrect. Social media today in today's world is an indication of public perception. It tells you exactly what we think. If any of you took any money from Dragas and you vote for this developer to steal our land, then you have violated the city and state's ethics and procurement policy. Finally, the three main receivers from Dragas, Dire Wilson, and Baluchcci, you should

recuse yourselves from this vote. You should heed it because of the federal lawsuit. And also, Mr. Dragus, and since you took over 96, how many daycare centers have you built?

The next speaker is Chris Taylor. After Mr. Taylor is Bill Casmer.

Mayor Dyer, members of city council, Mr.

Duhaney, good evening. My name is Chris Taylor, another former council member here. Tonight's decision is bigger than a golf course. It's about the public interest, public trust, and the standard of public administration we expect in Virginia Beach. Mayor Dyer, you earned your master of public administration from Fairley Dickinson University. Mr.

Duhaney, you serve as our professional city manager. You both understand that good government is measured not simply by whether it has the authority to act, but how decisions are made, who is informed, and whether the process earns public confidence. The American Society for Public Administration calls on public administrators to promote democratic participation and provide elected officials with accurate,

comprehensive, timely, and impartial information. Council member Barbara Henley has served Virginia Beach for roughly four decades and Virginia Beach National is in district 2, her district.

Yet, she was not included in the 2024 pre-RFP discussions. I say that respectfully. Deference to a district representative only works when that representative is meaningfully included before a project is shaped.

The public has since learned three things. Nine proposals were submitted, but council did not initially review all nine of years of deferred maintenance included capital responsibilities assigned to the development authority and an inaccurate acreage notice required another public hearing, but this council has demonstrated that taking more time can be good governance.

Council member Ralph supported additional time and community engagement surrounding the green clean Highland car wash proposal in district 10. Vice Mayor Wilson helped lead extensive public engagement over Rudy Loop.

Council member Hutchinson worked through neighborhood concerns surrounding surrounding the violent bank trail in Kimpsville. And in District 9, Council Member Schulman worked with residents, staff, and the developer on Marlin Bay as significant community concerns were addressed. Mayor Dyer, you demonstrated the same judgment with the capstone proposal in 2023, allowing additional consideration before moving forward.

These are not criticisms. They are examples of members of this council recognizing that listening can improve an outcome. Tonight, I respectfully ask for the same standard. Take a strategic pause. Review the complete record. Study the alternatives. Give Council Member Henley, her constituents, and the golf community a meaningful opportunity to shape the outcome before permanently

deciding the future of this very public asset. Citizens who filed foyer requests, reviewed records, attended meetings, and asked difficult questions are not obstacles to government. That is citizenship, and honoring it is how we protect the public interest and the and preserve the public trust. Thank you.

The next speaker the next speaker is Bill Casmzik and then Cody Connor.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Vice Mayor Wilson, city council members. I'm Phil Kazmir. I'm the president of the Coastal Virginia Association of Realtors, formerly the Hampton Roads Realtors Association. Before I start, there's been some misinformation put out that I just want to correct for the record because I do have access to the information. Virginia Beach is short about 3,300 housing units right now.

1,800 of that is attainable housing, which would be about uh for people about 75 uh,000 uh dollars. And I know that because we have 2.7 months on hand. To get to a balanced market, we would need between four and six months on hand. So to say that we do not have a housing shortage in Virginia Beach is just flatout wrong and misinformation. Now I'll be the first to say I do not I'm

not going to stand here and talk about golf. That's not my thing. I spend much more time in bunkers and water hazards than I do on greens or fairways. So I'm here to talk about what I know about which is housing and housing affordability. At Kovar, our standing position is that everyone has a right to realize the American dream of home ownership. And unfortunately, cost pressures are putting that dream out of

reach for more and more Virginia Beach residents, including our military, our service workers, our firefighters, teachers. We know now that the average age of a first-time home buyer is 40 years old. 40.

I've been fortunate enough to talk to some of you, meet some of you. If you you're running for office, we may have even interviewed you. I've interviewed people running for uh running against you as well. We've interviewed people for and against this project. Those in favor of this project seem to be looking at the numbers, the bottom line, and the new tax base it creates. From my perspective, those opposed to the

project don't like change, don't like developers. They don't like that the additional acreage was not included in the additional RFP. But let me tell you that in real estate everything is negotiable. Just because they didn't put it you didn't put it on the initial RFP doesn't mean it not it can't be something that isn't negotiated into a deal. Now from 20 July 2025 to July of 2026 the median home price as our area

increased almost 6%. Yet those opposed would rather stand against any type of development than actually work to easing that real estate appreciation. This project is one way to help more people attain hope ownership. And it's not a magic bullet, but when we look at potential developments like this, we have to look at the big picture. We aren't expecting this project to be 100% attainable housing. What this project

will do is create a step up option for current residents to upgrade into. So, while some of it is attainable, others will be step up, which is going to allow people to move into that property, creating more attainable housing for firsttime home buyers. The vote tonight is not just about a specific project.

It's about what it does for the entire housing supply and I would encourage you to support this proposal. Thank you.

The next speaker is Cody Connor.

After Mr. Connor is Henry CSM,

good evening.

I thought building a fake beach that nobody could afford to go to right across the street from a real beach that everybody go to for free would be the dumbest thing I say this council sign off on. But here you are doing your best just to lower that bar a little bit more.

I spent a lot of time looking into this deal. I tore it apart, put it back together. I looked at property values, undeveloped land values. I connected the dots and then cuz I didn't trust myself, I had AI do it all over again. And I'll spare you all the minutia. But after it all, I only had one question. Are you corrupt or just stupid?

Now, I'm I'm all four more houses. I'm all four more housing. I I love the child care aspect of it. I'm sure they're going to make a great golf course. is still a terrible deal.

Especially when you take into account the reasonzoning. We're selling the land for much less than what it's worth, but that doesn't matter because we're just basically giving the money back so that it can be developed. I know we got a couple car salesmen up here. Would you sell me a car and then give the money back to me so I could soup up my new ride? Of course not.

Of course not. But here comes Dragas wilding up like Wimpy from an old Popeye cartoon.

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

And you fire up the grill.

You're either crooked as a devil's smile or you can't pour water out of a boot with instruction on the heel.

If you were smart and honest, there'd be an independent assessment. There'd be a full fiscal analysis.

showing that the public is getting fair market value for what they own, proving that the long-term benefits exceed the associated costs and risks, and that would all be made available to the public. But if you vote on this, without that, you're going to be viewed as bot or brain dead. So, make good decisions.

The next speaker is The next speaker is Henry Cells. Henry Cells.

Lewis Hasty. Oh, are you Henry? Sorry.

After Mr. Cells is Lewis Hasty.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, uh, vice mayor and city council members. My name is Henry Cells. I'm proud cit citizen of our fine city and I appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight.

Just speak hold it up and speak up louder.

Is that any better?

Little louder.

Is that any better?

There you go.

There we go. My name is Henry Cells. I'm a proud citizen of our fine city and I appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight in support of the project on behalf of Timmans Group, the civil engineering firm contracted by the development team. The team asked me to provide a little extra context to the stormwater management concerns that have been expressed. For those concerned over the stormwater management design, the

and the site layout, I'd like to mention that the standard city zoning and site plan review process will still have to follow after this vote and the land sale. This provides the city and public with numerous additional opportunities for input and review of the designs. We will be required to incorporate any of the changes proposed into the city's master drainage modeling which is allows

us to analyze the aspects of the surrounding drainage area and to ensure that no negative impacts can occur due to any of the changes being made. Our firm has extensive experience working within the wershed and is extremely familiar with the storm water solution in the area. We've worked with the city in order to provide updated and improved modeling for the surrounding area in the

past during review of other projects and we're confident we can provide an a betterment to the community. This sale represents an opportunity to create a huge benefit to the surrounding communities and the resiliency of the city's infrastructure as a whole. The existing ponds located on the course represent a large area of critical storm water storage for the drainage basin.

This sale will allow for over 16 acres of additional pond area to be implemented into one of the most hydraulically beneficial areas for this part of the city. They just that's just over 50% increase in the current existing pond facilities. It will also allow critical maintenance issues that affect the basin as a whole to be addressed through private investment, moving the fixes along faster while

maintaining public control over the drainage rights to those critical pieces of infrastructure. In closing, from a storm water management perspective, this project has a potential to be a major benefit to the public, and we're excited to provide as much benefit to the city and residents of Virginia Beach as possible. Thank you.

Our next speaker is Lewis Hasty.

After Mr. Hasty is Justin Lynn, Lewis Hasty is my name. I've uh lived in this area since uh 1954.

Um this isn't easy because I know a lot of these people up here and I'm trying to trust you guys, but it's getting a little tough here. I'm not going to pick on anybody, but um it's is I don't want to get personal about it. Um I am here today to implore our city council to vote no on the agenda item sale of Virginia Beach National Golf Course.

This property is owned by the Virginia Beach residents.

Everybody here.

Everybody. Not just you, not just you, but everybody. You too.

taxpayers. Everybody pays taxes, you know. Um, and eligible voters, not the city council, okay? You're not God.

You're not a king, as they say sometimes.

So, um, as you know, and the voters know, 2026 is an election year.

One two three four.

Not you.

Four five or six. Counting you. Okay.

So, with that in mind, may I remind you, each one of you that when you are elected, you agree to perform your duties at the will of the people.

Everybody here, not just one side or the other.

Um, so here here's the deal. I think I believe it's time to reflect on what has transpired in the last two years.

2024 something went right. You all know that. None of you know. Can't say you don't because you did. Maybe you didn't know, Miss Henley. You might be an example of somebody that didn't know.

So, you got two choices. That being said, you can vote no.

Yeah.

Or you can defer the vote and most importantly perform a transparent Y'all know what that is. Think about it.

Transparent. An objective objective. You all know what that means. I know you do.

Analysis before moving forward. So, you got a choice. You know what you need to do.

That's all I got to say. Thank you.

The next speaker is Justin Lynn.

Justin Lynn.

No, Justin Lynn. Jeremy Wing.

Jeremy Wing.

That's the one.

I don't see him now.

Jerry Stevens.

After Miss Stevens is Melissa Dout.

Yeah, I know where he went.

Hello.

Hi.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer and Ma and members of city council. My name is Terry Stevens. Although I reside in District 2, I actually don't live anywhere near the golf course. I do, however, and I I actually don't even golf. I do, however, enjoy monthly lunches at the public clubhouse. My friends and I um attend the lunches.

I've had friends who've gotten married there. Local charities have tournaments at the public course, and the public high school golf teams use this public course.

I'm opposed to the sale of this public asset. I'm a residential real estate agent and I've heard a lot of talk about inventory. I'm not sure how much you keep up with inventory, but the real estate information network, which is our local MLS, actually just published that the active listings reached their highest point in more than six years.

Inventory is actually up.

So for those of you who are saying it, it's not up. According to Rain, inventory is up. Um the residential real estate market is also slowing. I'm concerned that we have a lot of growth going on in our city and the last thing I want to see is overdevelopment in our city. VB National is a public asset. It is owned by the taxpayers of our city.

That means you own it, I own it, and all of us own the golf course. It's a public asset. If a developer wants to build high density and child care, they can buy a private land. They do not have to buy a public asset.

There's plenty of land in our city that's owned by private entities. who could sell their land to a developer to build this.

As I've said, VB National is a loved public asset.

Thousands of residents have reached out to you. I find it really interesting and intriguing the variety of the people who've reached out to you. Some of them are old, some of them are young, some of them are golfers, some of them are non- golfers. Some of them live in your district. Some of them live in my district. All kinds of residents have contacted you and said, "Do not sell

this public asset. Do not sell our land.

Once you do, although the course might be open to the public, it will be privately owned. It will no longer be owned by the citizens of the city of Virginia Beach. And the majority of the citizens of Virginia Beach are saying to you, please do not sell our public asset.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Melissa Dout.

Melissa Dout. And then Walter S.

Good evening. My name is Melissa Dout, lead of Responsible Growth VB, and we are asking you to vote no on the sale of Virginia Beach National. Tonight, I think the entire deal comes down to one question.

Are Virginia Beach taxpayers clearly better off because of this deal? The city has demonstrated that they are not.

VB National is a revenue produ producing public asset. The taxpayers own it. Yes, it needs some investment and the city estimates approximately 7.7 million in existing capital needs. But compare that with the deal before you tonight.

Dragus is going to pay 17.9 million for the property, but the taxpayers don't get to use that 17.9 million on schools or roads or public safety. That money is going directly back into renovating the golf course that Draggus will then own.

And the public commitment doesn't end there. The city documents identify another 4.3 million in city funded funded infrastructure, 1.8 8 million in development authority funds, potential public responsibility for millions in cost overruns, and a mechanism that can redirect additional millions of dollars in future projectgenerated tax revenue directly back into this project. So, let's stop framing this as spend 7.7

million on renovating a golf course or collect 17.9 million because that's not the deal. The real choice is whether to invest in a revenue producing asset that the public already owns or commit substantially greater public resources to a project that the public will no longer own. If privatization is the better investment, the numbers should make that overwhelmingly clear, but they

don't. Then there's the process. Public records show discussions with DRAUS began before the competitive solicitation.

An unsolicited proposal preceded the RFP and substantial discussions occurred before the other companies were invited to compete and biders were not bidding on the same parcels or project scope. So tonight, taxpayers deserve an answer.

Did every bidder actually compete for the same deal on the same terms with access to the same material information?

because a competitive process only meaningful is only meaningful if the competition is actually fair. And finally, housing. I strongly support affordable housing in Virginia Beach, but adding housing and providing affordable housing are not the same thing.

If affordability is so important that enough to help justify this project, then the and the public resources supporting it, then it's important enough to put into the contract.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Walter Shine and then Gretchen Hill.

So, this is my first time coming to one of these meetings and this I've never spoke in public before, but I've been here for two and a half hours and I didn't know if that was going to be a circus like Jerry Springer. And here I I'm seeing you guys up here just being patient as you possibly can. But I just first of all, I want to say I'm in support of this project, but I also

think that you guys all have already decided what you're going to vote and you're just you're ready to wrap it up.

So that's all I have to say. Thank you.

The next the next speech speaker, sorry, is Gretchen Hill and then Holly Martier.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of council. I'm Gretchen Hill with the Hampton Roads Chamber and we are here in support of this application tonight because in part it's going to provide an answer to one of the problems that this city has as well as the region and that is not just affordable housing in a sense, but housing that will attract a worker who is in their 30s or 40s and

needs a place to live that costs less than $500,000.

You guys have all been presented with information that we have on studies that say regionally we have a hard time attracting young talent and if we can get them, we have a harder time keeping them. This is one step towards a solution to that. Another thing is every year you go through budget issues where you're looking for a small amount of money that you have to play with and to

use it to supply the assets that you and your constituents need. You have road improvements that you need and Independence Boulevard, we talk about it every single year. Every year the cost of that project goes up. So, I realize that this is a tough decision, but this is one way you can get a large chunk of your property off the city rolls and put people in houses that are going to pay

you additional tax dollars, which also helps achieve the goal that every year I hear you say, "We don't want to raise real estate taxes on our residents." You can't continue to supply services to people without money to pay for that.

And part of that is making tough choices like this and creating a new tax base that will help supply some of that. So, I know it's getting late and I didn't want to take up too much of your time, but thank you very much.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Holly Martier.

Holly Martier.

And then Cheryl Smith.

Yeah, I'm short. Wonder how much drag has paid all these people that are for it. But anyway, Mayor Der, Vice Mayor Wilson, and members of uh city council, I'm asking you to stop and seriously reconsider the proposed sale of Virginia Beach National before you vote. This is publiclyowned asset that belongs to residents of Virginia Beach. The decision to sell it deserves a complete transparency which you don't have.

Public scrutiny and assistance at every council member acting solely in the best interest of the citizens, not developers, political interests, or anyone else who could personally benefit from the transaction.

The city has acknowledged the council discussed the golf transaction as closed sessions numerous times back in 2024 and that dragged proposal is now before council. Given the amount of probate concern surrounding this deal, I believe the public deserves clear answers about the entire pro process. Specifically, what communications occurred between the council members, city officials, and the

prospective developer before the before it became public? Were there any council members, city officials directly or indirectly involved in discussions with the developer before the aware of proposal, which we know that was true. Have all campaign contributions, financial relationships, gifts, or other connections involving the developer and anyone participating in this decision being fully discussed

and independently reviewed? Has a city attorney de determined every council member participating in this vote is free of any actual or apparent conflict of interest? I doubt that. Has any independent ethics legal review be conducted to determine whether the process complied with Virginia law and applicable conflict of interest requirements, which I do know there's a lawsuit going on. I am particularly concerned about

allegations circulating among circulating among Virginia Beach residents regarding campaign contributions and possible relationships between Jagus and members of city council. I am not asking to simply dismiss those concerns. I am asking for them to be investigated and for the results to be made public. The city's own information states that the proposed transaction would involve the city

contributing $4.3 million toward infrastructure while the developer provides up to 10.2 million in de in additional funding. The city also says the proposal can generate approximately 3.4 million annual in new tax revenue.

Residents are already struggling with the cost of living and property taxes.

We should not be asked to accept a deal involving a major p public asset without being absolutely certain the city is receiving the best possible interest.

Actually, Ed Austinine was going to do his own money and not charge tax dollars. Please vote based on what's best for the city residents, not on relationships, political pressure, or private interest. And if any unresolved questions about conflicts, interests of the process, please do not vote until those questions have been independently answered. I'm asking every member of city council to remember who owns

property and who are suggested to represent the residents of Virginia Beach, not your wallet. The next speaker is Cheryl Smith.

The next speaker is Cheryl Smith. After Miss Smith is Arthur Armlick.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Cheryl Smith, District 5. Um, as we are hearing from many people, there are so many Virginia Beach citizens that would like you to either postpone this vote or vote no to sell the Virginia Beach National Golf Course. Taxpayers really don't understand why we need to sell it and especially why it needs to be sold to a developer.

If the golf course needs improvements, I am sure we are fine with using our taxpayer dollars to help with that. Of course, we agree we need more child care. And if the city council wants to help and and invest in more child care, we're okay with that. We need affordable housing. But once you start adding HOA fees, are they really going to be affordable?

What we understand is that the city plans to invest what they make from this sale and help the developer pay for development expenses. We understand that the city our taxes will be paying for all the infrastructure improvements. So, you can't blame us for thinking that this sounds a little sketchy.

PERSONALLY, PERSONALLY, I would like to see us finish the intersection between Virginia Beach Boulevard, First Colonial Road, and Oceanana.

I get it. You all have a lot of hard decisions to make and there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we're not aware of which is why we're asking you to tell us why you're voting the way you are.

The problem is a lack of transparency and a lack of transparency leads to a lack of trust. We really want to believe that you are representing us and not developers.

So, we are respectfully asking that this vote be postponed or we vote no until there is a clear picture of why this sale is needed, how the financial deal is really going to work, and an explanation of why taxpayer monies are needed to help a multi-million dollar development company. Thank you.

The next speaker is Arthur Armlick.

After Mr. Armlick is William Rahannic.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of council, city manager. My name is Arthur Mlick.

I've lived in Virginia Beach since 1969.

I've raised a family here. I've worked here. I've paid taxes here and I'm very proud of my city most of the time. I am opposed to the proposal for the city. I have three reasons. One, I do not believe it's fiscally wise. I don't understand how the city is selling a public asset and then turn around and giving the money back to the developer.

This seems like a very unusual deal.

I've heard a lot of people talk about the numbers. I'm not going to go over them again, but the one thing that sticks with me is they talk about the money. We hear about the money, but no one's really thinking about what is the cost of the city maintaining the infrastructure after this is built.

That's an additional cost we bear as citizens.

I've heard it say that the course needs upgrades. The city auditor has picked the number at 7 million. I've also heard that this golf course has contributed over $5 million to the capital improvement program, but it's not been put back into the golf course. I asked why.

My analysis, and I'm not a mathematician, but it sounds like it's going to take 20 or 30 years to break even on what we're investing and we don't own the asset. That seems like a bad deal. The second point is transparency.

As a citizen, I question the process of how we got to this point. Factually, this all started with a developer approaching the city manager, a city attorney, and a non-disclosure agreement being signed. Is that the way we want our government run in this city? I hope not. After that, I heard the developer met with selected members of city council and small groups, thus avoiding the open meeting law and not those that

information not having being being disclosed. Then there were meetings with the development authority manager or director again avoiding the open meeting laws. Eventually, it was brought before the council for a request for proposal. Again, I believe not all the city council members were informed of the deal on the table. That doesn't seem right. I'm asking that the council look at this process, go back,

review it, and start all over. It may be a good deal, it may not be a good deal, but until every council member has all the facts, it doesn't seem you are ready to vote on it. Lastly, I want to talk about our community. As council members, you are stewards of our trust and the fisk of the city. This proposal affects both open green space assets that we own as citizens and we're selling them off.

I still have not heard any reason.

Appreciate your comment. It should be done.

Thank you.

I just have one last comment if I'm No, no, sir. Your time's up.

Thank you.

Next speaker is William Rahannet.

WILLIAM Rahannic and then Amanda Willoughby.

Good evening.

Good evening. Uh, council members, mayor, Virginia Beach residents. My name is Bill Rahannik. I am a Virginia Beach resident and I work in the golf management industry.

The drive time from my house to Virginia Beach National is less than two minutes.

I'm here tonight to express my opposition to the sale of Virginia Beach National to a developer.

For the record, I do not make political contributions.

Let me begin by saying what my comments are not about. I am not anti- business and I have nothing against the Draggas company or Century Golf. In fact, through my professional experience, I know Century Golf to be a highly reputable operator of golf and country clubs.

My concern is not with the companies involved.

My concern is with the process and whether the transaction truly serves the long-term interests of the taxpayers of Virginia Beach. Yes.

I do however have to say that I take umbrage to the parade of partisans and non-residents who've been invited here to speak tonight and at previous meetings, particularly their positioning at the top of the agenda.

For those of you who drove from out of town to express your opinions, we thank you. But we live here, we work here, and we pay taxes here. and we didn't ask you.

As much as being dismayed, I am embarrassed for those who have orchestrated this dog and pony show.

The voices that should matter in this chamber are the voices of those who live here and pay taxes here and vote here.

The stated impetus for this whole thing was the third party was the uh capital needs of the golf course and the supposition that the golf course was incapable of providing for those capital needs.

Yet somehow we've arrived at the decision to sell the golf course before undertaking several obvious responsible steps.

First, where is the objective thirdparty assessment of the current operations to turn to determine whether there's a revenue and profit opportunity as is where is that could help to fund some of these needed improvements?

Second, where was the RFP specifically seeking cap a capital partner willing to invest in the course while maintaining public ownership of a valuable public asset?

Third, where was the alternative RFP that required the sale of the golf course, but also required to maintain all green space and perform all capital improvements.

Instead, the existing RFP invites economic considerations that have little to do with whether Virginia Beach National can be preserved as a public asset.

Thank you. Appreciate you coming.

The next The next speaker is Amanda Willoughby and then Frank Ernest.

Good evening.

Good evening. Good evening, Mayor Dyer and City Council. I'm back tonight asking you to hit pause on the sale of Virginia Beach National and vote no. As I said last month, this process has raised too many questions, questionable timelines, large monetary donations, NDAs, and most importantly, a lack of transparency with the people that you represent. And somehow those of us asking questions have been labeled

anti-growth.

Let me be clear. We want Virginia Beach to grow. We want responsible development and a thriving city that people are proud to call home. But growth should not mean selling off the very spaces that make our city worth living in.

Because once public land is sold and developed, we don't get it back. We've been told this is the best proposal, but there were nine proposals. Specifically, so respectfully, how do we know? Or in the words of Councilman Henley, maybe that's the point. And the biggest question, how much is this going to cost us? If we're being honest, many of you didn't know the details of the other

proposals up until recently. So why should citizens simply trust that this is the best deal for us? We deserve the answers before you vote, not after. The VBDA negotiated this deal on behalf of the city council. But that doesn't mean that city council's job is simply to accept what was negotiated. You were elected to scrutinize the deals, ask difficult questions, and protect the interests of the people who live here.

Then there are the 659 homes that this proposal adds. At a recent city council meeting, a resident's short-term rental application was denied because of concerns about additional vehicles.

So, what happens when we add 659 households? How many cars then? What about traffic, roads, drainage, schools, and public safety? If a few additional vehicles warranted a concern for one resident, surely 659 homes should warrant some concern.

These are not unreasonable questions.

These are the questions you should be asking before selling public land. Look around this room. Look at the citizens that have shown up for this city.

Now it's time for this city council to show up for us.

Not for a developer, not for Helen Dragas.

For us. We are not anti-growth. We are asking for transparency, accountability, and due diligence. So tonight, vote no.

Answer all the questions. Yes, even the hard ones. and vote no because once this land is gone, we don't get it back.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Frank Ernest.

Are you Mr. Ernest?

Frank Ernest. And then after Mr. Ernest is Melissa Lucasen.

Welcome.

Thank you, sir.

I got this in the right place.

Um, my respect to Mayor Dyer and the members of the council. Greetings. With that said, my remarks are going to be to the citizens of Virginia Beach, like myself.

The decision's already been made by this council, so nothing needs to be said to them. What's happened here is a very unusual thing. It said you can't fight city hall, but I've been doing it for over 30 years and winning once in a while. And I can tell you the way it's supposed to work. Everything's supposed to be at at city, state, and national level. Everything's supposed to be done

in the dark. And you're not supposed to know what they're doing, what they're voting on, or what happens till the next day when it's too late. It's all over with. Like in this case, like the lady said, the golf course is sold and you can't get it back. Something happened this time. Somebody turned on the lights and all the cockroaches are scrambling.

And I've seen some pretty well- paid cockroaches here tonight.

what you can do. There was a situation similar in the Shannondoa Valley of Virginia. It involved a school board.

There was an election. When the dust settled, there was not one incumbent member on that school board.

We have an election coming up and then there'll be another one after that. Some of these people are up for election now.

The others will be up again.

If they vote yes and you don't vote them out on November 3rd, on November 4th, you'll only have yourselves to blame, not these ladies and gentlemen up here.

The next speaker is Melissa Lucas.

Since I have time, may I say one more real quick thing. Don't feel sorry for them. if they need a new job, they can sell time shares because people you can make money for now.

Thank you, sir.

Melissa Lucas and after Miss Lucas is Crystal Mar.

Good evening, council. I've learned a few things about how major decisions get made in Virginia Beach. The really important votes don't usually happen on Tuesday nights. By the time the public gets three minutes at this podium, we're often just watching the ceremonial putt after the tournament has already been won. So, forgive me if I'm a little skeptical when I'm told this is just the

beginning of a 12-month process. Can anyone point to a major land deal where this council voted to move negotiations forward and then came back a year later and said, "You know what? This deal doesn't protect taxpayers. We can't move forward."

I honestly can't think of one. So, let's stop pretending tonight isn't the decision. I've heard several reasons why this golf course should be sold. My favorite was that 90% of the people using DBN are Virginia Beach residents.

I have to admit, I found that to be a fascinating argument, Mr. Schulman.

Since when did our own residents using a public asset become the reason to get rid of it? I always thought serving the taxpayers who paid for it is a feature, not a flaw. This city has never been shy about investing in public assets before.

We've used tip funds to support other public owned facilities when they've struggled financially or needed maintenance. Yet, when it comes to a golf course that generated revenue for the city, suddenly the answer is liquidation. It's a fascinating business model. Neglect an asset for years, decide it's too expensive to fix, sell it to a private developer, and then tell taxpayers they'll buy it back if it

doesn't work out. Most of us would call that deferred maintenance. with this council. It apparently qualifies as an economic development strategy. And then there's the structure of the deal itself. We're told it will feature an undisclosed amount of affordable housing. Where are the deed restrictions? Where is the automatic revision clause that returns this property to the people at no additional

cost if the golf course fails under private ownership? Instead, we're told that if if the course goes dark, there's a re purchase option. Buy it back. Why should taxpayers pay twice for land they already owned? Only in government can someone say with a straight face that the backup plan for selling public property is buying it back later with more public money. Over the last 5 years, I've watched the same small

circles of developers, consultants, attorneys, appointed boards, and elected officials repeatedly shape major public transactions. Whether I believe that every relationship complies with every ethics rule isn't really my point.

Public confidence requires more than simply avoiding actual conflicts. It requires building a process that people believe is independent, transparent, and accountable. When residents get three minutes at a podium after months of negotiations have already taken place, while the people with the greatest access have had months of conversations behind closed doors, it's not surprising

that public trust begins to erode. And that's not really what tonight's about.

Not a golf course, public trust. Public trust erodess the same way infrastructure does through years of a deferred. Thank you very much, Melissa.

The difference is you can't restore public trust by selling it to a developer. Thank you.

The next The next speaker is Crystal Mind. I'm sorry.

Thank you. and then Michael Green.

Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, members of council. My name is Crystal Mirandon, and I was born and raised in Virginia Beach, specifically our beautiful rural Pungo. My family has watched this city grow for decades. We've welcomed change.

We've also trusted that some things were worth protecting. The Green Line is one of those things.

To many people, it's just a line on a map. To me, it's a promise. A promise that growth would be planned responsibly, our rural communities would be protected, and future generations could enjoy the Virginia Beach so many of us were fortunate to grow up in.

Tonight, I worry you're about to break that promise. This proposal isn't simply about redeveloping a golf course. It involves the conveyance of additional city-owned taxpayer land, including property on the rural side of the green line. Whether that's one acre or 100, it matters. Precedents matter. Once crossing that green line is acceptable in one case, it becomes much harder to

explain why the next request should be denied. I also want to address the idea of being a good steward.

of taxpayer dollars. I agree that we should be, but the city is conveying public taxpayer owned land while the dragg payment would be recycled into the project rather than becoming unrestricted value to the city. That deserves serious scrutiny when we consider what the public is giving up, especially when some of that property lies beyond the green line. I also struggle with the timing of this vote.

Residents have repeatedly raised questions about traffic, school capacity, storm water, and the long-term impacts of adding 659 homes. Many also have serious concerns about the process that brought us here. Concerns now subject to ongoing legal proceedings, which makes the timing of this vote essentially troubling. I'm asking you to recognize that public trust in your decisionmaking has been shattered.

When trust is in question, when trust is in question, the answer shouldn't be to rush toward a permanent decision. I'm not here because I oppose all development. I'm here because I love this city and I oppose this dragg proposal. I want my children to inherit the same Virginia Beach I was lucky enough to inherit. one where leaders kept their promises, respected thoughtful planning, and understood that

once open land is gone, it's gone forever. Tonight, you're not just voting on development proposal. You're deciding what message this council sends about transparency, long-term planning, and the future of Virginia Beach. I respectfully ask you to vote no.

The next speaker is Michael Green.

Michael Green.

I don't know if this is him or not.

Uh, boulette deer.

Is there a boulette deer? D H E R. Nope.

Cameron Cherry.

No one's here.

Are you Miss Cherry?

Okay. And then Teresa Krauss.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mayor Dyer, City Council. My name is Cameron Cherry. I grew up in Virginia Beach. Um my mom and a lot of our family had a lot of city council meetings with Myra North.

Um I oppose this sale of the golf course.

I've lost my trust in y'all.

the backdoor dealings.

As you can tell, I've never addressed y'all.

This is my first time.

I enjoy going to the golf course to have lunch and dinner at the restaurant.

I was really surprised that it was going to be going up for sale.

There are some great things about this, but y'all have messed up where you didn't pay to get the things fixed that needed to be fixed when you had the money to do it.

Instead, you took those funds and you put them in the general accounting so that it could be spent anywhere and everywhere.

And our city has a long history and tradition of protecting property for future generations.

You haven't it while the the revenue stream sounds good at first, it appears that the proposal hasn't been given full consideration of the cost for the city services like police and the fire school utilities, traffic burdens.

And maybe the project is being viewed through some rose colored glasses or something.

You've heard many concerns over the way the negotiations were done conducted secretly that the city has found the density of the proposal was unsuitable to handle the drainage. questions about jet noise zones, the federal protection of the eagles, the potential of the Clean Water Act violations, the incomplete information about the proposed condominiums.

My time's running out. Um, but I do want to address one thing before my time runs out.

Dragus has donated to y'all under different company names that they own and y'all need to recuse yourself if you accepted those donations. That is a conflict of interest and THERE ARE ONLY TWO committee city council members that did not accept that money from their companies.

Appreciate that. THANK YOU.

THE NEXT SPEAKER IS Teresa Krauss. After Miss Krauss is Nancy Moly.

Good evening. My name is Teresa Krauss.

I'm a CPA and MBA with 45 years of experience as the chief financial officer, including at several prominent local nonprofits. I'm required to take 40 hours a year of continuing ed, including two hours of ethics. Perhaps city council should be required to take ethic courses to learn the difference between complying with bare minimum legal requirements versus ethical decisions. As a CPA, I'm appalled at

this deal that has been put together.

Public land is an irreplaceable asset.

Yet, this council is looking to give the land plus millions in cash to Dragas, who will make millions more on housing.

Instead of spending far less to improve the course and keep this asset deal makes no sense. Citizens have asked you to slow the process. What's the rush? I suspect you fear the outcomes of fall elections or your rushes due to the silos. Who needs the golf course ponds for storm water management?

There is something seriously disturbing when citizens feel they need to sue their own city to fight sit council's actions on Westneck and now with VB National. Some like the affordable housing element. Do you review any other part of the deal? The city's population is declining and personally I find it abhorrent to have people who need affordable housing to live in designated apartments in order to afford housing

instead of where they would prefer to live. Promoting redevelopment in areas where city services already exist and vouchers are better solutions. Oceanana is the most prec precious asset. Yet, this council keeps pushing development like condos at VB National to be built barely outside the 65 decel line. Mayor Dyer says the Navy is fine with these developments. In truth, the LA Navy

can't legally order the city to stop building along the line, asking the current commander. His opinion is nice, but that can't be relied upon. Oceanana is one Florida senator away from convincing Congress that their state has fewer noise complaints. If Oceanana moves, you'll have all the land and affordable housing you'll ever want.

Council should go above and beyond and not develop near the EQ's borders because of how important Oceanana is. I propose three ordinances. The local district me rep must be informed immediately once staff or council members are made aware of a pro proposed land deal or project in their district and that district rep must be included in all communications. Number two, no NDA agreements can be entered into the

city without a vote by city council.

Number three, fire the VBDA board immediately for mismanagement of VB National and other assets. Dissolve that entity.

Each of you have an equal vote. Be brave and do not fear other council members p um retributions. Please listen to your citizens and vote no.

THE next speaker is Nancy Mobley. After Nancy Mobley will be uh Doug Kelly. Sorry.

Good evening.

Good evening. How are you?

All right. I came to speak about duty and responsibility.

We've heard a lot about transparency, but all of you have a duty to represent each and every one of us, all of us, whether you're for it or against it. But if you sign an NDA and you can't discuss it with us, how are we supposed to get the answers we need?

We can't.

All of us have a duty to ask questions.

When we attend meetings like with Miss Henley, she can't answer because she signed an NDA.

So where are we? Nowhere. You guys are making We have to scrge for information from other people in the city. We have to hurry and fill out foyer requests.

Why?

We voted for y'all. You can't tell us how you're going to spend our tax money.

I'm still not sure as to what the rush is to rubber stamp this and get it sent on down the line. Why can't we look at the numbers? Why can't we answer our questions honestly?

Rip up the NDA. Tell us what we are asking for. We want to know where our money's going.

Why is it going to be given to a developer who has plenty of money of her own?

And for the Mr. Real Estate Man, I'm not opposed to growth. I'm not opposed to a nice new child care center. I'm not opposed to new houses. We want responsible development. If you're spending our millions of dollars to pay for it, it's not responsible.

The next speaker is want to clarify. I did not sign a non-disclosure agreement.

I don't believe any of these council members did either.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Doug Kelly. After Mr. Kelly is Brian Beser.

Good evening, mayor, members of the city council, city staff, fellow residents.

My name is Doug Kelly and I live in district 5. I'm here to respectfully ask the council to vote no on the sale or at the very least to pause this process until the residents receive full accurate information and a better opportunity for meaningful public input.

This is not a routine land transaction.

This is a dec decision about a major public asset, a public golf course surrounding open space, traffic, infrastructure, housing density, and the long-term character of our community.

The public has been told this proposal will preserve golf, improve the course, generate new tax revenue. But the residents have also heard serious concern about the process, the assumptions behind the proposal, and whether all reasonable alternatives have been truly considered.

Look at the other options, the other eight proposals.

Perhaps you'd even consider continuing the lease to the current operators. It's one of the few public private ventures that's profitable for the city. In 5 to 10 years, the value of property will increase even more. And if it becomes feasible to sell, you'll have a more important asset to sell.

Virginia Beach National is more than a balance sheet problem.

It's a community asset. It's one of the few publicowned golf resources of its kind in the city or the state. Once public land is sold, public doesn't get it back. That's why the burden should be on the city to prove clearly and transparently that selling the land is the best option, not simply the fastest option, not the most convenient option, and certainly not the option preferred by a developer.

I want to address representation.

Vice Mayor Wilson, I live in District 5 and many of residents in our district have exposed opposition or deep concern about this sale. Have you listened to us? Have you responded to us? I ask you and every member of the city council, who are you representing tonight? Are you representing the residents, your constituents who will have to live with the consequences of this decision? Or

are you representing the developer who's bankrolling YOUR RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN?

THE RESPONSIBLE vote tonight is no or at a minimum a vote to delay. A strategic pause is not obstruction. It's good governance. It gives the city time to correct the record, evaluate all options, rebuild public trust, and make the right decision. I respectfully urge you not to sell Virginia Beach National Golf Course tonight. Protect this public asset. listen to the residents, demand complete information, and make a

decision the future generations will believe was careful, transparent, and in the best interest of Virginia Beach.

Thank you for your time.

The next speaker is Brian Basser.

Brian Basser.

And after Mr. Basser is Larry Batton.

All right.

How y'all doing?

So, y'all love this city. You love this city like I love this city.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

That's right. You know, no matter how often I've been disappointed in some of the things that happened here. I love this city. All right. And uh the reason I love this city ain't really because of all of these people that this gives me hope, you know. It's cuz all the little treasures we got here. And as far as I'm concerned, Virginia Beach National and the Eagles that live there, they're some

of our treasures. All right? And we owe it to ourselves to take care of these things. And uh we've heard a lot of talk here about how Dragg Company, they want to rehabilitate things and make things better, right? But the way that I see it, that's not guaranteed. All right?

We're proposing major renovations to the golf course. Okay, these renovations could easily take most of this 2-year time that we have that the golf course can't be closed. You know, not only that, we've got legal challenges. We've got a lot of things that that could, you know, put a stick in our spokes here.

Okay. Um, so it it doesn't really seem wise to me. you know, we're going to make maybe a million dollars, $600,000 in in revenue over these over this taxes that we're going to collect maybe if everything goes right cuz you know, like Mr. Vancat said, we got we got to provide services, right? So, um that's about what VB National makes, you know.

So, why are we trading off different revenue sources and gaining a liability?

If this court stays closed for two years, we're either going to have to buy it back or we're gonna have to allow them to do something else, right? Which means VB National, our little treasure goes away. All right? So, that that's all I wanted to I just want to remind y'all just do the right thing here. All we got to do is kick the can down the road. We can get a better deal than

this. If we really need to re rejuvenate the golf course, we really need this tax money, we could get a better deal than this. You know, our city manager is supposed to get us better deals in this.

That's why we brought him in here. All right. So, just do the right thing. Kick this can down the road a little bit.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Larry Batton.

After Mr. Batton is Matthew Hammacker.

All right. Good evening, folks.

You know, I got a lot on my list here.

Just taking notes from what's going on.

So, I'm going to address some of it as I can.

One thing, so it's going to be a shotgun. One thing, there's a lot of discussion about all this. You got an an election in November. Why don't we put this in a referendum and let the city vote on it?

An honestly worded referendum, not like some of that stuff that the state was doing.

Second, I've been hearing all along, we need all this extra housing because like Miss Drega said and some others have said, if we don't build in more housing, your taxes are going to go up.

Okay. So, are you promising me if we get these 1100 houses that we talked about here and the 250 were jamming by the Brewer House near our neighborhood, Mr.

Mayor, or the 52 on Shore Drive? We get all those. I'm not gonna stroke you a bigger check twice next year than the one I did this year.

No.

Okay. I was just hoping for a little answer on that one.

Um I heard a number from somewhere over there of 0.1% of the city is a golfer.

0.1 of 1%.

Well, my r math here. I shouldn't do math in public. That sounds like 450 people. I think you met a little bit more than that. like maybe 1%. Um, but I think there's probably more golfers in the area than there are surfers and maybe even people that go to the aquarium because I hear we're putting a bunch of money back in the aquarium every year. I heard a six to1 ratio for

the money that the dragus is putting in.

And you know, my mind at first is like we they're paying us 17.9. They're getting back. Sounds like we're g giving them 179. No, they're they're not even thinking they're giving us that money.

That's their money. That's 38 million they're putting in the course and we're not getting anything out of it. I don't know how you can say it's not free.

Um, somebody mentioned trees. When I look at the map of that Mr. Litty did about where the things are going. I think there are a bunch of trees that are coming out to the century guy. I I have no doubt that your resorts are great. They look nice. I don't know if I could afford to go to them too often. But my fear is I never saw a green less than $150 there.

And most of our golfers fears here is you're going to price us out of our golf course. Now, I know you put out some numbers. 69, you know, is the low rate, but that's probably not going to be around for long. And Mr.

Dragus, I grew up in a one three-bedroom ranch with one bathroom. I got up at 5 in the morning to get my turn. If you build a lot of those little houses, people will buy them. You'll still make money. They can get you 200 acres somewhere.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Matthew Hammacker.

And after Mr. Hammacker is Steve Valentine.

Hi, my name is Matthew Hammacker and I must confess I don't know who Pete Dy is. And at this point, I'm too afraid to ask.

I do not play golf. I've never played a round of golf in my life. I've only gone to VB National to take a look at it with my own eyes after hearing all this discussion. I thought it was worth the trip. As everyone's discussed, the process has been convoluted, obuscated, possibly intentionally.

And obviously, people bring up the money issues. Everything for me is about the money. At the end of the day, I would like to cut through everything else. The only thing that matters is the tiny strip of land that the DAS companies are going to develop into 659 houses. The golf course, by her admission, didn't even care if she got it. It's just part of the package in order to make the

money off of that land. I'd like to ask you right now in your internal documents, how much profit are you expected to make from this deal over 30 years?

Okay, keep the subs here.

Cool question. Now, For Patrick Duhaney, our city manager, I do have a lot of respect for you, though I haven't had a chance to meet you yet.

When you entered into an NDA with the Dragas Companies, did you do so of your own accord or were you told to do so by people on city council? I do expect you to answer this question in public right now. This is a public hearing and I would like to hear your answer. Did someone tell you on council to enter into the NDA? Yes or no?

Interesting. We're here to listen to you folks.

Are you? Because you know what I I've heard is a very disruptive audience tonight.

And I got to say it's not my personal style. I'm not big into the whole loudness. I get overstimulated. What I do want to point out though is that there's something real here if you're listening for it. Martin Luther King Jr.

in 1967 once said that riots are the language of the unheard following rampant violence in that summer across the country. And he said, "I want to condemn those riots, but I also have to condemn the system that created the need for people to express themselves in such disruptive ways because the people have stopped being listened to.

If you listen to what's happening here, I grew up here my whole life. I've watched the farm across my grandma's house turn into the reserve. I've watched forest across my neighborhood in Point of Woods turn into Renaissance Place. We say the city is running out of land. I disagree. I think it's running out of imagination and creativity. And with my last few seconds, I'm going to do a final pitch. If there's this much

money to be made on that little bit of land, we should build the houses. The city of Virginia Beach has its OWN The City of Virginia Beach has its own development company.

Thanks for coming.

Thank you, MAYOR.

The next speaker is Steve Valentine. And after Mr. Valentine is Laura Hughes.

Yep. you got two Valentine's today. So, welcome, Chief. How you doing? Um, I just wanted to start by saying we've heard a lot tonight about transparency, transparency, transparency. And I don't really see any up here at all. You know, we had a prayer earlier from the mayor.

I think we need to go deeper into a deeper prayer and ask for you guys to make the right decisions. I can help with that. I have friends that can pray for you guys to make the right decision.

As far as uh political contributions, if I have a district, if I have a person running in my district, then I'm going to donate money to them. I'm not going to donate $93,000 to nine of the 11 council members up here. Is that what happened? Because apparently that's what I've been told that's what happened. And the top three got 85% of that money.

Miss Henley, I know you did not. And I apologize for the way you've been treated by all these other council members.

I tell you, it's terrible.

We we I was a fireman 28 years here. We had a code of ethics. We protected the citizens of Virginia Beach, their property, and every guest member. Where where are your ethics? I don't see any ethics at all. Zero. The only time I saw everybody pay attention is when Miss Draggus walked up here. You guys like piked up like, "Oh boy, there she is.

The savior of the day." All right. And if you're if you're not bought out, that's fine. But if it walks like a duck, it looks like a duck, it's probably a duck. And that's what I'm seeing. And chief, you got $1,500.

You're worth $1,500. My wife said I'm worth $1,700. So I don't understand that. That's not That's not enough for a vote. You can't say anything. So it's my time right now. And you know, we keep bashing VB National. Who here has gone?

I know you can't answer. That's fine. I rather you not answer. I've only know one or two of you gone out there and seen the golf course. The golf course is actually beautiful. Had a guy over here say how bad it was. Of course over here they're going to say it's terrible. The golf course is beautiful. We will play tomorrow. We will play it down. We won't even move the ball cuz the golf is

perfect. Do we have some other issues we need to fix? You guys need to fix. The city needs to fix. City had the money.

What do they do with the money? Where is it? Did it go somewhere else? Apparently it did because we have no ethics here.

All right. We had Mark Leechman plays at that course sometimes. All right. He's gonna build out at West Neck. He's taken the best superintendent in the area.

Mark Ross from Virginia Beach National.

All right. And we also have Am I running out of time? We also have Glenn Pierce back here has been running that golf course for years.

He's raised millions of dollars.

He's raised million of dollars for for the uh for charity. And I I heard mayor, you're out there recently with your tournament and I heard you got booed. Oh well, golfers are great. That's what we're here for. Now, I just want you guys to think about ethics and vote the right way, not what everybody else wants you to vote. So, that's my time.

The next speaker is Laura Hughes. After Miss Hughes is Paul Beatson.

Good evening.

Some of you I've never met before. Some of you I do know and I think that you're nice people. Some of you sold your souls a long time ago. All of you need to be listening to us. I really want to address the comment about not paying attention to Facebook comments. That's not how we make decisions. Social media is the way a lot of people communicate.

It's a very good indicator of public opinion. You have a lot of people here tonight and a lot of us, we're pretty diverse political opinions. We're across the spectrum here. There are a lot of people here that we don't agree on anything else, but we agree on this.

That should be a huge wakeup call because half of you are up for reelection starting in a few weeks and the other half in two years. And this is not going to go away as many people have mentioned. I am confused about a couple of things though. Apparently, you know, Drogas is going to be the big savior with affordable housing and daycare and all of that. I don't golf, but my

husband does. And I know that it's a really expensive habit. And I have to tell you, if I were looking for affordable housing and affordable daycare, a golf course is not where I would be looking for affordable.

Right now, there's not a lot of confidence in government entities from the top to the bottom, federal, state, local. This doesn't help. Every single elected representative needs to pay attention to even the appearance of impropriy.

It is hugely problematic when you don't do that. And once you lose that trust, you don't get it back. I hope y'all do the right thing tonight. We need at least three of you to care about us tonight.

Next speaker is Paul Beatson. After Mr.

Beatson is Rick Boils.

Good evening.

How you doing? I'm Paul Beatson. I've talked to you guys before. I had a lot I thought I was going to say tonight, but it's pretty much been covered. Um, this is a a bad idea for a sale of the golf course. It is from the start. The whole deal is bad. I mean, this is a sweetheart deal for one builder, and it there should have never been any non-disclosure agreements or anything

behind closed doors to start with. This project with the housing doesn't meet your needs. The money you're talking about making over 20 years does not happen.

And um I'm not here to talk about the three eagles on number 12, which I've personally have a picture of. Um all the different things that have happened over the years at VBN have done nothing but grown the golf community. And uh I'm just here to tell you this is a bad idea. And I say vote no.

Thank you.

RICK BOILS. And then after Mr. Boils is uh Eddie Berdon.

Good evening, folks. For the record, my name is Rick Bo, lifelong resident of the city of Virginia Beach, taxpayer, voter, president of two civic organizations, the Civic League and the Virginia Beach Council of Civic Organizations. Although I'm not here to speak for them, I'm speaking on my own.

I originally intended to come here, enter 15 or 20 items into the record and sit down, but Councilwoman Wilson, your appointed planning commissioner, tapped me on the shoulder a few minutes ago and said, "Your people are making you look bad.

My people are making me look bad."

If this is my people, I am proud to be associated with it.

I'm not paid to be here and I wrote my own words tonight. I'm having to change them so much because some of these folks took my thunder, but nonetheless, let's talk about the $38 million. Mr.

Cumins and I have a little disagreement on whether that's public money or private money.

The city budget director and I have a little disagreement on whether that's public money or private money.

We're going to get a check from a developer. We're going to put it into an escrow account. They're going to submit bills. We're going to pay the bills up to $17.94 million.

That's public money.

There's an additional $18.1 million that are either going to be paid to or on their behalf. Now, they may have to write a check and get reimbursed for it, but it's another $18.1 million of public money.

Until we get to $38 million, there is no contribution by this developer of even one red cent.

The affordable housing is anything but affordable.

the average price is going to be $374,000 give or take on the units that she intends to be affordable. If you use the city's definition of affordable, which Mr. Styles and I were corresponding about earlier today, and I understand that we're going to put a resolution in before this is over tonight, but these these products do not meet the city's definition of affordable housing. The

purchase price needs to be reduced by about $66,000 in order for that to happen.

I would also point out to you that Oceanana Naval Air Station currently has an current inprogress environmental impact study on the F-35 jets and that the AU's noise zones may very well change and put these properties inside of an AUS noise zone.

You all are not understanding this is a movement and we ARE JUST STARTING.

EDDIE BERDON AND after Mr. Berdon is Declan Donley.

Hey Eddie.

Good evening honorable mayor May mayor Dyer, honorable vice mayor Wilson, honorable distinguished members of city council. As a proud lifelong resident of the city of Virginia Beach, it has been my profound privilege to have the opportunity to have represented Helen Dragas and the Draggas companies on their land use applications over the last 35 plus years. This city has been truly blessed by the fact that for the

last 55 years we have been home to the finest developer of beautifully designed, immaculately maintained, please.

Immaculately maintained landscaped uh properties, sustainable communities in Virginia Beach and in Southampton roads.

Communities of forale homes that are primarily attainable by young home buyers who are city employees who might well be locate living in this part of the city because for the last since 1979 recognized that municipal center is one of the top employment centers in the city of Virginia Beach. They'll be able to walk here from a house they own, not one that they rent. the and that goes

for first responders, workers, nurses, teachers, caretakers, and members of the military as well as retired people on fixed incomes who downsize. The draggies have won numerous I mean 50 some odd awards from the city of Virginia Beach uh planning commission, beautifification commission, and others over the years.

And most impressively, the breadth and depth of their impact on this community has been recognized nationally by the National Association of Homebuilders, who bestowed its America's Best Builder Award to Draus, as well as twice they've received the National Lee Evans Award for building management excellence.

They've also won the Dream Builders Award from the from Habitat for Humanity. Uh there are no finer family.

There is no finer family and no better qualified company in this commonwealth on the eastern seabboard and likely in the entire company the entire country, excuse me. um that this council could select to create this badly needed community of attainable owner occupied housing in the courthouse context area under our comprehensive plan while also restoring and dramatically improving

what is a gem of a course 27 years ago not now while continuing to operate it as a public course as required by the agreement. The city does control that uh superior tax generation will be generated as you know and it will be resilient. Now we are putting $36 million $36 million into developing folks please listen into into Okay.

Okay.

$36 million in private money.

Oh, hang on, folks. Wait a minute. Just hang on. Mr. Styles, is he speaking as the attorney FOR THE EVERYBODY ELSE HAS TO STOP.

THREE MINUTES. SORRY, EDDIE.

How can I speak when people are yelling?

Okay. Sorry, Eddie. Three minutes.

The next speaker is Declan Donnelly. And then after after Mr. Donnelly is Vikas Shuroy.

My name is Dean Donley and I live in district 2. I'm 14. Many people have come up here and spoke about the past.

I'm the present and the future.

Unlike them, I enjoy the scores today, not 20 years ago when they when they had left the district and now just want to tear it apart. I'm pretty good at math, but not the best student. But even I can tell this is a bad deal for all of us.

If you truly feel that this is the best way forward, maybe ask the people in November when it's time to vote. Then we'll see what the city thinks.

What I have learned is most all these city council meetings, this being my third, is that I is that that third is that the city deserves better than what we have now. And I hope my generation can do better when what you have done to us.

Mayor Dyer, you hold your own golf tournament at Virginia Beach National.

Why was it not good enough for me and my friends? Matter of fact, you shut down the course for an entire day.

Was it good enough then?

One day, I hope to be sitting in the same seats as all of you. But I will not do to the city what you have done.

And when I am in that position, I will serve the city, not Helen Dragas. Thank you.

The next speaker is Bcash Shery and after Mr. Shotty, we'll move to the WebEx speakers.

Good evening.

Thank you very much. Good evening.

Um, this is the first time I, you know, I I came to the hearing.

Hold the mic down a little bit.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. Can you hear me now?

Yeah.

Okay. So this is the first time I came for this um uh kind of hearing and um I work for Navy and my wife is a businesswoman and um we were trying to buy this uh golf course uh put the proposal for it and we were buying it for our daughter which is um 8 years old. So we had a plan to run it for very long time and um I have the five points here that

um you know I'm not sure if my uh proposal was reviewed or not but uh I have the five points here that I will tell you very briefly. Um so I am not not requesting any taxpayer dollar for any improvement or anything. Um I will I will use my own money to um improve it and uh also pay the purchase price in the beginning. So that will go to the city and I will keep paying the

taxes as years goes and everybody here their beautiful soul their beautiful soul here and they came here and they're they're telling how they they are hurt because of this decision. I think decision is already taken. I do not know but it seems like it. So I'm I'm not sure why we are rushing the thing and we are not even reviewing all the proposal.

what what I see in my proposal everything beautiful thing um it has you know uh I will it will preserve the environment and the eagles like you know I I saw there are eagle eagle nest there and um you know um also when I put the proposal actually I got little hurt from it too because uh when I put the proposal uh city released that to the public with my social security and

everything in it um personal information and they sent a letter to me that um you know they will they will remove that uh SSN from the public but um I'm a I'm a victim to the identity theft theft too now it is is a big big risk if you know how serious that is but um you know I was thinking you know I will go with the you know with the script and I also have

a letter here that I got when my offer or my proposal was rejected. I got a a letter from the city. It says um we will look for somebody who can run it uh for couple of years you know just for the lease but then all of a sudden I I was seeing these messages they say you are ready to sell it.

So I'm so I'm saying um okay thank you sir.

Yeah is done.

Thank you sir. Welcome. Thank you, Mayor. We'll move to the WebEx speakers now. Ronald Marsh, you're the WebEx first WebEx speaker. You are unmuted and may begin.

Good evening. and this is RA Marsh and I'm going to speak on an area where I think we have serious problems which is the VBDA council liaison.

We have Rosemary Wilson who has gotten approximately I can tell about 38,000 from Miss Dragus' various companies and we have Michael Burluchcci who has gotten approximately 23,000 from Mrs. Ms.

Dragus has various companies and they are supposed to be our eyes watching over the VBDA which has um Lisa Murphy as the chair and Lisa Murphy works for Will Cox Savage and what I don't understand is why the liaison Misss Wilson and Mr.

Beluchcci never bothered to look at the capital improvements or the payments and what happened to the money. Um what were they doing at those meetings? Were they just, you know, listening and having fun? Did they do anything to try to understand what the BBDA was doing? And you know, now we're trying to sell this because we didn't properly manage the capital improvements, but the capital

improvements had millions of dollars in there. And we also have the tip fund. So the money that the course supposedly needs could be provided very easily by the city. And this is the only that the city has that's making money. So I really question why they're having people like Rosemary Wilson who gets a lot of developer donations and Mr.

Burluchcci and Miss Wilson is also named in a federal lawsuit along with you Mr.

Dyer and you have representation from Wilox and Savage which is also who the head of the BBDA works for. So, it's a very cozy relationship, but with all this going on and so many questions being, it really would be prudent to table this and delay making a vote on this until the federal lawsuit is decided because you are under a federal lawsuit with representation, Mr. Dyer, and so is Miss

Wilson and so is the city manager and so is the city attorney. All of you are in this federal lawsuit. Your name and there's a lot of questions that need to be answered. So rather than pushing ahead, this should be tabled and the answers to the questions that were asked should be provided to the citizens because we don't see the money adds up when you're all you're doing is counting

a few million in tax revenues and you're not adding up what it costs to do the improvements for the storm water and the schools and the various um police and fire. And there's already 200 apartments approved uh for the silos that's having problems with their storm water. We hear there's 143 homes approved for Westneck Village. 93 homes approved for Princess Anne Villages. It's all going to add up

and be just too much. So, please pause this, step back, realize that the courts are going to be involved in this for a very long time. And until that decision is made, we shouldn't be selling this asset and giving it to a developer who really doesn't have our at heart because she did not follow the procurement ethic policy. She did what she wanted, which was to go around that and to have a

17-month head start over the other people.

Times times up. Thank you, Mara.

Folks, we've been here a long time.

The next The next WebEx speaker is Maryanne Lane. She's not there. Okay. Uh Parody.

Miss Eye, you are unmuted and may begin.

Is she there? Can you hear her?

Karen.

Yes. Yes. You may you may begin. Go ahead.

Okay. Very good. Uh good evening, council members, city attorney, and and uh city manager. Before I get started, I would like to make a request from now on that any of us online speakers, we would like a live video feed camera to be turned on the faces of all the city council members so that we can actually see your response to what we're saying.

It's just a screen here that just says citizen speaker. Okay, with that being said, um my name is Polar Kitchen. I'm using my maiden name because I come from a fourth generation Virginia Beach, very old family here, responsible for the the original infrastructure of the city with old old style ins and eeries, Kitchen's Kitchen and Halifax Hotel and things like that. Some of you all might

remember that. And I I just like to would like to applaud all the speakers who came on their own valition, not because they were paid, not because they stood to gain anything financially from Helen Dragus and her company or or this deal or you know they do her plumbing for whatever it might be. Um we're not stupid. We know we know who's here because they took the time out of their

lives and not because they stand to gain anything financially.

So the highly unethical if not illegal process of how the drags proposal landed on the top of the deck. That's not the only issue here. The real issue is integrity.

So, first I have a question for my councilman on the six of the sixth district, Worth Ramik. Did you give inside information to your tennis buddy Ed Valentine that an RFP was coming regarding BB National Golf Course and that he might want to get in on it?

Because that's verbatim what Ed Valentine says. And isn't that procurement fraud, sir?

Dragus is not the only issue here. In addition to that, at least one council member and another now with the social media was publicly dismissive about the number of VB citizens who spoke up at the last meeting and at this one against this proposal and said, "Oh, it's only a handful of people." And that's not truly representative of Virginia Beach. You couldn't be more wrong. You could not be

more wrong. every state delegate, every state senator, every congressperson, every every national senator, they know that when they get a call, they get an email, they get a response from a voter, from a citizen, somebody comes to show up at the meeting. We represent tens of thousands of Virginia Beach voters who don't have the time, who won't come down, who've never spoken publicly, but

they feel the same way we do, and they're going to vote in lock step with what we say because now they're getting educated.

And let me say clearly, um there's I I'll just say this, too. If you guys vote for this and when those of you that are up for reelection voted out, thank you.

Then we will know without a doubt that our Thank you.

The next speaker is Sandra Shinnabarger.

Miss Shennburgger, you are unmuted and may begin.

Miss Jenna Barger, you were unmuted. She's not there.

She's not. Can you unmute her?

not working.

Let's go to the next one and then we'll come back. Larry Williams, is he on? Mr.

Williams is not on. Okay.

Can't unmute Miss Jenner.

No, we don't do that. Okay, mayor.

That's all the speakers, sir.

Okay. Thank you. Yes, folks. And thank you all. It's been a very long evening.

Point of clarification, Mr. Berdon, this is not a planning item. So, as an attorney, you are not allowed the extra time and that's why you were cut off.

Okay. At this point, I think we're going to have a vibrant discussion up here with several opinions. At this point, I will ask for a motion.

Uh, Mr. Mayor, uh, and members of council, I would like to move for approval with, um, the alternative version that was printed in our package.

I second it.

Okay.

Okay. The alternative.

The alternative version that was puted in our package.

Okay. I think Okay. Do we have a second?

Then we'll go into discussion.

It's done.

Okay.

We have the second with Mr. Hutchson.

Okay.

Miss Emma. Well, could I make a substitute motion?

You sure can.

What I heard tonight was a lot of What I heard tonight several times was people asking us to pause and take time to look at all of these issues that have been brought forward.

Uh I don't see any reason for us to try to rush a vote. I think that's how we got in this mess to start with. Just kind OF it just kind of appeared on our agenda a month or so ago with a couple of dates.

We're going to get it this m week. We're going to have a public hearing next week and then we're going to vote. At least we did have this time put off until August. It stretched it a little longer, but there's really no reason for us to rush at this point. And if other members of council would support a substitute motion, what is what is the substitute motion?

Uh well, I suppose it's best if we have a substitute motion with a a particular ending date so that we would have some idea. I would suggest 90 days, a 90-day deferral to give us an opportunity to go back and look at this issue from the beginning and see if we can answer these questions that have been brought forward tonight. So, that's my substitute motion. We defer this for 90 days.

Okay. Is there any discussion?

I'll second the motion.

Yes, I know that. Okay. Any discussion on this?

Okay. Michael, uh, Mr. Mayor, thank you and and um and and thanks to all who have participated and taken the time to be here and been uh patient throughout the process. Uh I'm not going to support the substitute motion for a deferral and and if please folks and I and I want to be very transparent about why we we could be here longer. Um, a 90day deferral puts us just after what?

Elections.

And I think the people deserve to know where we stand now tonight.

I do. I think the voters I think the voters deserve, whether it's by design or whether it's or whether it's coincidental, a 90-day deferral puts us exactly after a city council election, many of which are competitive. And wouldn't you like to know, wouldn't you, wouldn't you like to know? I know a lot of neighbors I've spoken with would like to know today where their council member stands.

And so that's the basis for why folks why I uh don't feel comfortable supporting the deferral tonight.

Okay.

Mr. Styles, can I ask you a question?

Even with an affirmative vote tonight, what is the next is this is not the end of the process. We do have, you know, other hearings going forward. Can you please please explain the process going forward with an affirmative vote?

Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, um the term sheet specifically contemplates a number of items that have to be accomplished before any closing would occur. Uh one significant u aspect of that is uh there would have to be an application for resoning and for conditional use permits that would come back before this body.

So uh there will be a a second uh vote or votes uh on the resoning at at some point in the future and that would be at least several months from now. It would be several months and when in the fact that during this time a lot of the information that was requested by the public be addressed but it could not be addressed at this point until this phase was done. Is it okay?

There will be due diligence necessarily done as part of the reasoning process.

She always gets a result.

Yes, there will be due diligence including a number of studies, a traffic study, uh a number of other studies, analysis of the eagle issue and and and seeking any necessary permits for that all before uh the reasonzoning would come before the body.

And that will be at least several months away. Correct.

Yes.

Okay, Barbara.

Okay, folks.

A 90-day deferral just gives us a target date for some of some action that needs to be taken. But during this entire 90 days, we're going to be addressing all of these issues that have been brought up tonight. It's not that we're going to sit back for 90 days and wait until we do something.

We're going to take what we have heard tonight, and I I won't bore you with all my comments that I had planned to make because uh we've got a lot of work to do. We can start tonight with these things that we have heard tonight and begin working. It's not that we're going to wait 90 days to start working. That 90 days gives us a target date. AND UM

so that was my intent and putting a time in it because sometimes if we leave it with no time limit, we just don't know where we are. So that doesn't mean that that's the end. It doesn't mean that's the beginning. It's just a a time in the process, but we will be starting immediately to address these issues that have been brought up tonight. We've heard a lot and I think we've got a lot

to work on and thankfully we've got a lot of people out there who are going to be working with us. I hope until we can can find the answers to these questions.

But I think the really good thing is that we have brought a lot of people out who are now I hope going to be involved in in these issues because this is an extremely important time for us as we're looking at uh at at what we're going to be doing with our land use uh with what we're going to be doing with our funding. We have a lot of major issues that we're

going to need to be addressing and I think this is a good beginning and I I'm pretty excited about all the enthusiasm we've had tonight and I'm really looking forward to getting started on it right away.

Thank Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor Dyer. Um so first I want to just thank everybody uh for coming out here tonight and before and previous meetings every on all sides. I mean this really you know it's not pretty necessarily at all. Um so uh that's another issue but anyhow thank you all for coming out here tonight because uh this is what democracy really is all about whether you are on one side or the other.

So, all that being said, um I do think that we do need more public input, more public dialogue. You all need to learn more. We've learned a lot from our meetings, but I think you all have more questions. Not just here tonight. I had a community meeting about two weeks ago tomorrow night, and the room was full of people who had a lot of questions. And then I was at a meeting last week with a

lot of folks, 20 plus, that also had a lot of questions. So I think the public still has a lot on their mind about this. This is a big decision and and I think three months it's in the scheme of things it's not much time for a decision like this. So thank you.

OKAY.

OKAY. Any any other question any other comments? Let's go ahead and we will vote on the substitute motion for approval.

substitute motion that there there there is a substitute motion that we will be voting on and that is Mrs. Hanley's motion. Could Barbara explain it one more time?

I I have made the motion that we pause our action at this point that we don't vote yes or no on that question tonight, but that we answer the we start beginning now to try to answer these questions that have been brought forward tonight, these issues that have been put on the table, and that we are going to uh just pause in making a final decision until we get some of these questions answered.

And I I think that's what we need to do.

Okay. Anybody else? Okay. Let's open the vote. The The vote is The vote is open.

Maybe not.

Council member Schulman.

Refresh it.

You have to refresh. Council member Ross Hammond.

Yeah. Please.

I have Council Member Ross Hammond's vote now.

It's brand new.

Unbelievable.

Okay. Do we have the votes record?

I'm waiting for Council Member Schulman.

Thank you. Go ahead and close the vote.

What is it?

By a vote of nine to what is it?

Two to nine.

Two to nine.

The substitute motion failed.

We did have the motion to approve. Okay.

Do we have any comments from council members at this point?

Would you please repeat your original motion what we're voting on now? Please tell us what the vote is supposed to be on.

We're voting on the alternative version.

Okay. Go ahead.

Well, um, Mr. Styles, would you mind reading the paragraph for the alternative version?

I did. Your honor, the the alternative version is in the agenda package. It adds uh one more paragraph to the ordinance.

Um and I'm pulling it up.

It adds paragraph five which states the city manager is not authorized to finalize the sale of the property unless developer prior to planning commission and city council consideration of any reszoning of the project property has committed to the percentage of affordable housing units that will be constructed as part of the project.

Okay. You've already wasted our time.

Stand up. Cash.

Okay.

Stand up.

Hey, folks. You're not helping yourself.

Okay.

No. Well, I'll tell you folks, let me just say, let's be calm, folks. Let's be calm.

Okay.

We It's right now it's council discussion. Everybody had perfect. We had We had a Yeah. 3 minutes and 4 hours. Okay. So, folks, any other council comments at this point?

You're voting on a motion we know nothing about.

Okay.

Okay.

Just Okay, Jennifer.

Amen.

Okay, Jennifer.

So the motion is something I after speaking with Mr.

Bo listen to Jennifer. It's her suggestion to to really further define what you're asking for. Please give her the courtesy.

I know there are a number of us that received a lot of the paperwork that Mr.

Boils put together about the um mechanics of the deal and I thought some of it was really valid. So, I tried to figure out what I could work into this agreement as the project was moving forward. And part of it was that the initial term sheet um said something about that the developer will make a best effort for affordable housing. But it wasn't a firm enough commitment to give us a number that before we even

talk about resoning and voting on it, what number are we actually talking about and is it something that's worthwhile? So, I asked the council if that's something that they could support and they said yes. And I did that in my view as a compromise to try to get some of the feedback that I'd heard about concerns about affordability. We want to know what actually will that look like.

Um, and what I recognize and I' I've had this conversation with so many different people because for me it's um answering questions and the response I'm getting back is we don't know a lot until this transaction happens and the developer is able to get into the land. That's where I am. And so that's why I'm supporting moving it forward.

Okay.

Okay. Folks, please.

Okay.

Okay, folks. At this point, uh, let's just get to the vote.

Could we have it read, please? I'm sorry. I can't find where. What are you?

You said our Okay, the alternative Mark just read it to everybody.

Mark is going to read it.

Could you do it one more time?

little louder.

The alternative version is in the printed agenda.

It is in the printed agenda and it the only change is the addition of paragraph five which does not permit the city manager to close the transaction if the developer has not firmly committed to the number of affordable units. the percentage of affordable units that will be included in the project by the time the reszoning is considered by the planning commission and the council. That is the only change.

That's what the that's what it says is the number will have to be disclosed before the planning commission.

Go ahead and vote on.

Okay, folks. At this point, let's just go ahead and vote on it.

Okay.

Okay. There's no other comments. Go ahead. And the vote is open.

I just need I I need Miss Henley's vote, please.

Mrs. Henley's not here.

I need her vote.

Okay.

Okay. Just hang on one second, folks.

Barbara need your vote.

Okay, go ahead and close the vote.

By vote of 9 to2, this motion has been approved.

Okay.

Okay. Thank you all.

Hey folks.

Okay, we're going to take a 10-minute recess.

We're going to go ahead and reconvene the meeting. Thank you all for hanging in there. Uh 4 and a half hours is a long time for a lot of people, but thank you for your patience. Uh we're going to go now to planning item. Uh item number one, BH Farmhouse LLC, the farmhouse LLC for variance of section 4.4B 4B of the subdivision regulations for a lot width and conditional change of zoning uh from

conditional B2 uh community business district to conditional B4 mixed use difference where a developed site of the 251 multifamily development with commercial space and 1805 Kempville Road.

Rob Bean is the attorney for the applicant.

Welcome.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Madam Vice Mayor, members of council, for the record, my name is Rob Beman. I'm a local land use attorney at the Tropman Pepper Lock Law Firm here tonight on behalf of the applicant DH Farmhouse LLC. I'm joined tonight by Shauna Ferman, who's a representative of the property owner, and Ben Flood, who is a representative of the applicant, together with other members of our development team. The

property that is the subject of the application that's before you tonight is approximately 8 and a half acres located near the intersection of Centerville Turnpike and Kimil Road. Uh the site is currently zoned B2 and the applicant proposes to reszone it to B4 to accommodate a 251 unit multif family residential development. The historic farmhouse building that's currently located on the site would be preserved

and incorporated into the project as a tenant amenity space but also would likely have a small commercial use similar to the uh coffee shop that's currently operating on the site today.

The farmhouse has been in the Wood family for a number of generations and members of the family would remain involved in the project so that they can continue their stewardship of this property as they move forward. Uh the prop project has been designed to be in accordance with the various city plans that apply to the site including the Centerville SGAA master plan, the recently adopted uh city comprehensive

plan and also the city's active transportation plan. This development would also provide much needed diversification in the housing choices that are available in this part of the city as it would uh contain a significant affordability component wherein 7% of the units or 18 units will be reserved for folks uh making no more than 100% of AMI for uh 10 years and the uh the need for this additional housing

choice I think is is illustrated by the fact that the residents and the applicants other similar properties located close by in the corridor um have 30% active active duty military. Um, I also did want to note the applicant's extensive public outreach and connection with this application. Uh, the applicant held multiple in-person meetings at local schools to notify uh stakeholders about this project, including nearby

homeowners and also civic associations.

And the applicant also created a website and posted a website on the internet in order to provide additional information for uh community stakeholders. As a result of all the the feedback they've collected as part of this public outreach, the applicant made a number of extensive changes to the application, including the expansion of the outdoor amenity area adjacent to the farmhouse

building by more than 45%. A commitment to making the farmhouse available for meeting and gathering space for neighborhood and community groups, which is in the prof. a um the repositioning of the the detached garage buildings along the northern and eastern ends of the property to provide additional visual buffering for adjacent residents, relocating the waste and recycling service areas further away from the

adjacent homes and also making significant changes to the building architecture to upgrade the look of the of the complex. Uh with that, we certainly appreciate your time and consideration of this application and we'll stand by for your questions.

Thanks very much.

Thank you.

Next, the next speaker is David Lamb.

After Mr. Excuse me, my voice. After Mr.

Lamb is Ashley Mel Meen Weski.

Good evening, sir. Thanks for hanging in there.

Oh, it's been a long day.

You're telling me.

You know, I give you guys all the credit in the world. Four and a half hours of listening to that, I don't think I could have done it. Um, the big bucks. Yeah, do it.

Good point. My name is David Lamb and I live in Lake Christopher about a mile and a half from the um site of where they're going to be or where the company is is asking to build the the structure.

Um, and I came here basically to say the developer matters.

Now, I just listened to four and a half hours of opinions on developers and so why should you guys care about my opinion on this developer? And I'm going to tell you just a little quick story.

Like I said, I lived in Lake Christopher and I back up to what used to be, I believe it was called Cross Farms, and they developed that land quite a few years ago.

Yeah.

But they went through a number of developers before they finally built it.

One of the early developers was very similar to what I think Bonaventure is, is a company that kind of cares about public opinion and really will adapt to try and make things work better for the public around what they're getting ready to do. Um, like I said, I live right on where the farm was.

And the first developer that came in was building a structure that I when they put up their picture of the the development at the farmhouse was very similar. Everything was moved to the middle. They gave as much buffer space as they could and all the homeowners associations and stuff in the area fought against it and we lost that developer.

Then another developer came in a few years later after everybody was kind of like we got to get something built. were worried about they're going to build a shopping center there. And now instead of having everything in the middle of the property, which is similar to what you see in their development, I can pretty much reach over my fence and touch the house behind me where if it hadn't been if it would have been the

original developer, I would have had they were going to give us 10 feet and then they were going to build some buffer some buffer zone. Then they were going to build a tree line and I would now I would then have been a lot more isolated from the development than I am now. So the developer matters.

I took a look at you know Bon Ventur's development of this property was pretty impressed with some of the things they did. You know in listening to them talk they changed what the trash is going to be based on what input they got from one of their meetings. They put the garages in a different place to give them more buffer space. They really took into the opinions of the people that were coming

to their meetings and really incorporated what they heard from them.

Not every company does that. As like I said, I can read I can read a Thank you, sir.

Sorry.

You guys have a great night.

The next speaker is Ashley Malinowski.

Patricia O'Brien.

Good evening.

Hello.

Um, I'm Patricia O'Brien. I'm the CEO of the Children's Health Investment Program, better known as CHIP. Um, thank you for allowing me to speak today. I am speaking in favor um of the applicant and in favor of um Bonaventure. Bonaventure has turned into a incredible corporate partner of CHIP and that helps a lot of Virginia citizens um and a lot of Virginia Beach citizens. We work with the most

vulnerable families in Virginia Beach serving hundreds of these families every year. Our home visiting program serves families with young children and pregnant women. And every study that you look at will tell you that investing early is the best investment that you can have in a community. With a return on investment, for every dollar that is invested in a program like CHIP, you get

$5 return. And so Bonaventure really is adding to what Virginia Beach has to offer to its community. They are saving money in your school system, in your social services, foster care, by investing in programs like CHIP. These are the kind of corporate partners that make a city great. And these are the partners that help nonprofits really get in there and serve the families who need

us the most. Um, I am not going to use all three of my minutes because you're probably as tired as I am, but I am very happy to be here in support of just a really wonderful partner tonight. And again, very much in favor of um what Bon Venture is doing and thank you so much for what you do for the entire region.

Well, thank you very much. You are like the warriors of public service tonight.

So, thank you very much.

Thank you, Chennet White. Miss next Miss White Daniela Schwarz and Miss Schwarz is representing Brrigadon Civic League. Is that correct?

Brigadeon, sorry. Don't live in that part of the town.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Good evening, mayor and members of city council.

Bonaventure did reach out to the community. They did ask us our thoughts and we were very much from the beginning opposed and I want to make that very clear. In our quarter 2 meeting, I had approval from my 1,500 residents to oppose this resoning and I am here tonight to speak on behalf of my community.

So I am voicing my concerns um regarding drainage and flooding in our community. Brigadon surrounds Stumpy Lake. We already experienced high levels of water drainage issues and significant beaver activity which recently was found through the public works engineer and it's affecting the natural flow of water in our community.

At the same time, a $4 million improvement project with a retention pond is planned through the capital improvement program at a park just outside of our neighborhood.

The developer has indicated that the proposed apartment complex will drain towards Stumpy Lake. So, we have to ask, where will that additional storm water go when our existing drainage system is already struggling to keep up? If we're already planning a retention pond for the current conditions, it will only get worse.

This isn't just about what happens on the development property. It's about what happens to the homes, streets, yards, and families surrounding it. And that same question of capacity applies to another very important part of our community, which is our schools.

I'd like to take a few minutes to explain why this issue is not not only affects my community but is very personal to my family.

I had a middle school son who entered sixth grade at Brandon Middle School which in the 2025 2026 school year was already only.5% over capacity.

My middle school son had a 504 plan for small testing accommodations.

Time after time, there were not enough staff to bring my son into that small group testing room. Instead, he was placed into the library where students were continuing to come in and out, causing distractions where he was not able to focus and complete his test, ultimately failing most of his sixth grade year.

So I asked, "What is the purpose of a small group testing accommodation if that small group testing is in the library distracting you?" Um, so eventually we did make the decision to pull my son from public school and enroll him in a private school, not only because he couldn't learn, but because the resources and staffing weren't available to meet his needs. And that is not the reality just for my family, but

for other families in our community as well.

I recently spoke with a former Virginia Beach teacher and instructional coach, Nancy Esta, who spent nearly 20 years in public education before leaving the system. I asked her whether teachers today have enough support to adequately meet the needs of their students, and her answer was blunt. Absolutely not.

She explains that teachers and administrators are overwhelmed. Staffing shortages are putting an enormous pressure on the educators who remain and schools are increasingly operating in what she described as a triage mode. And that matters when we're talking about adding students to schools that are already stretched thin. According to the Virginia Beach public schools demographer Ronald Burke Bile, this

development is projected to add approximately 27 elementary students to Tallwood Elementary, 11 middle school students to Brandon Middle, both are which already over capacity but not yet at the 10% before the city acts. And then 15 high school students to Tallwood High. Those aren't just numbers. Those are 53 children who need teachers, counselors, special education staff, support personnel, and potentially

individualized services. Some have IEPs and some will have 504 plans, and some simply will need additional support to succeed. We already have children with accommodations who aren't consistently consistently receiving the environment those accommodations are designed to provide. And my son is just one example.

The former educator, Nancy, I spoke with told me that something that I think this council needs to hear. People, not programs, grow learners. And we don't have the people.

We can build classrooms. We can build trailers. and we can purchase technology for these students. But none of those things replace a qualified teacher or a staff member who can sit beside a child and provide the support that they truly need.

So before we approve another 251 apartments, I'm asking council to look beyond the development plans and ask a much harder question. Do our schools have the human capacity to absorb these students without further compromising the education and support of the children who are already there.

Because my son shouldn't have to had to have leave public school to receive the support he was already entitled to receive. And the next child shouldn't have to either.

Our children should not have to wait for our schools to catch up with our growth.

At around 3 PM today, the Kensville Coalition received the backing of elected school board member Matt Cummings on this decision to oppose the reszoning.

If my personal story isn't persuasive enough, hopefully an elected Virginia Beach school board member would be.

Please deny this resoning until we can demonstrate that our schools have the staffing, resources, and capacity to support the additional students this development will bring. Thank you.

Thank you for coming.

The next speaker is Samantha Roen and she is representing the Charles Town Area Civic League.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Good evening. Good night, actually, members of city council and mayor Dyer.

My name is Samantha Roquin and I am the president of the Charlestown Area Civic League and I am the chair for the Chemville Coalition. I'm going to clear this up once and for all. The developers ethics are not what's in question. They can give money all they want all day long. They're not up for Nobel Peace Prize. What we're here for is the development itself, not the developers.

Are we clear?

I know we're all tired and we're tired.

We are tired and frustrated because I have to keep coming down here. We have to keep coming down here and doing and fighting the battles that we voted for you to fight for us. They all and then you call us anti-developer and that's it. It's been a constant battle between civic leagues and developers and I want to remind you that opposing one development does not make you anti-development altogether.

Especially when we propose to the developer, houses are senior living. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's development, correct? Yeah.

Now, in full transparency, because I believe in that, I grew up on 126 acre farm, the fifth generation to do so, and I fully understand the importance of agriculture, saving our farms and our land. And in many ways, I'm pro- agriculture. But when did that become a bad thing?

How did we get to the point where trying to save these farms and this land has made us the bad guy? These farmers feed us after all. But it would be naive of me to think that there will never be a need for development. But these such developments need to make sense for our community and should always be looked at from both a need and a preservation standpoint. Abandoned buildings and

structures that aren't in use anymore should be considered first, and raw land and golf courses should be the very last option. So many sit here eager to develop with the exception of Barbara Henley. And I wonder how many, if any, have ever been as eager to save a few farms. So, I ask, what exactly is a threshold for you all to vote in favor of your community if it doesn't line up

with an outdated plan that was adopted in 2013 for Virginia Beach, a plan that no longer makes sense, but who will admit that? The cancellation of phase three at Centerville is a prime example of the city not being able to keep up with these developments. Roads like Kimville already face heavy congestion.

Accidents continuously happen along that road, especially at the Woods Corner entrance or exit at McDonald's and at the stoplight at Mafane. Not to mention the traffic that has increased in our neighborhoods when people use Buffane or Albbright to cut through between Kempsville and Linhaven or when they cut through the Brandon neighborhood to get from Kimville to Centerville. Additional

concerns to this is that most of the cars that cut through refused to slow down to the residential speed limit zone of 25 miles per hour, which is why we're now in stage four of the traffic calming process for Buffane.

Over a 3-day period, our last study showed that 10,766 cars passed along Buffane. And of that number, 458 of them were going over 35 with several going as much as 50 in our neighborhoods. So, how are our neighborhoods supposed to handle that additional volume of vehicles, especially the ones that won't slow down? High schoolers that live within a mile and a half of the school don't have

a bus to take them unless they drive or are driven. They have no choice but to walk through our neighborhoods up Kempville and then cross Kempsville to get back and forth to school. And the city rarely gets cars to slow down for the school zones. So again, as we add more cars to these apartments and more high schoolers walking along Kempsville to get there, how is the city prepared

to handle this? How will the city handle the additional accidents that we are bound to face on Kempsville, especially if it involves a pedestrian? which is exactly what Bonaventure tried to sell us on as they claim we shouldn't worry about a higher traffic volume because they anticipate a majority of their tenants will choose to walk to the Woods Corner shopping center to those restaurants versus driving. Okay. Well,

at the planning commission hearing, Bonaventur's lawyer very carefully danced around the subject regarding a hawk signal, but ultimately said, and I quote, "If that's something the city wants, that's something we are willing to do." End quote. and then backtracked and said that he would prefer to work on that language with the staff and between then and today's hearing. When I followed up with the city, they had met

with a lawyer afterwards and Bonaventure agreed to give the city of Virginia Beach $100,000 towards projects that the city would need to do to make it safer.

But just alone, a hop signal is 600,000.

So, are you prepared to fork over another additional $500,000 from the budget to play for pay for this plus any additional money that would be needed for any other improvements regarding pedestrian safety on top of the Hawk signal? We should not have to pay for things as a result of something we didn't ask for, we didn't want, and we are fighting hard to prevent.

Bonaventure should with the possibility of these apartments, the apartments at Kimp's River and the ADUs soon becoming easier to build, plus the faith and housing legislation, our concern to infrastructure is not an just an immediate one, but it is also 5 to 10 years down the road.

Now, I know that I my elected position is at the very bottom of a totem pole, if you can even consider it on a totem pole to begin with. I am a completely voluntary position that few want and even less respect. But I have done my very best to change the narrative and actually help my residents where I can.

Regardless of how I feel about something, it's not up to me. All the issues are brought forward to my community. I give them a full pros and cons list. I listen, we discuss, and then whatever the majority decides is what I go to do. Can you imagine if I went and listened to my residents, reassured them I was on their side, and then when the time came, I made whatever decision benefited me. I reestablished

the coalition when I took over presidency in 2024 because I felt it was important to create an open line of communication between our neighboring neighborhoods, civic leagues, and HOAs.

Should we face a natural disaster, someone go missing, heaven forbid, a child, we would already have an established relationship so that we could all work together and help where we needed. It's not about what happens when things go right. It's about what happens when things go wrong. I called those presidents. I built those relationships that are now friendships.

We have worked together. This development didn't bring us together. I did. We all work together and have been for several years now. And just as we sent out in updates to our community regarding this development, a link for them to watch the planning hearing, I plan to do the same after today's hearing, too. Because this will show them and prove to our community and everyone else's that we fought to the

very end. Because I am what you might call transparent.

City Council, I urge you to take this opportunity to prove to your communities that you do in fact support us. Vote against this resoning application. Thank you.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Mia Douglas.

Mia Douglas.

And Miss Douglas is representing the Brandon Civic League. Is that correct?

That's correct.

Thank you, Sam. You're a tough act to follow.

Council members, I know y'all are tired, so I'll be quick. My name is Mia Douglas. I'm the vice president of the Brandon Civic League here in Virginia Beach. And I'm here tonight to speak in opposition to the apartment complex Bonaventure has proposed for 1805 Kempville Road. Let me begin by saying that I'm not anti-developer and I'm not anti-development. I'm a producing real estate agent in Hampton Roads. I

understand that growth is both inevitable and necessary. The question is not whether or not we should grow, but whether this particular growth will make our community stronger, healthier, and more livable. Growth is only worthwhile when it improves the quality of life for the people who already call this community home. A healthy city measures success by the well-being of its residents, not simply by the pace of

its development. Growth should be a means to an end and not an end in itself. When growth becomes the only goal, the people who live here risk becoming an afterthought. And speaking of the people, if you could just raise your hand if you're here also in opposition.

I mean, it's not as much as like the, you know, the golf course people, but it's 11:00 on a on a Tuesday night.

We're here.

As a real estate agent, I see firsthand the housing challenges local families face. As a military spouse, I also understand the housing challenges facing our service members. The concerns I hear are remarkably consistent.

Affordability.

The cost of housing continues to rise.

So do groceries, gasoline, child care, school supplies, and virtually every other expense that a family faces.

People aren't simply looking for more housing. They're looking for housing they can actually afford.

Bonaventure has estimated rents of approximately $2,400 per month for these apartments, excluding the relatively small number of units designated as affordable because there is a legal definition for affordable and there is not one for attainable. That projected rent is roughly $200 to $600 more per month than comparable apartment communities within 1 to three miles of the site. According to the local real

estate information network, which is our local MLS, there are currently 126 rental properties available in Virginia Beach for less than $2,400 per month as of Friday when I did all of my research.

Apartments.com lists approximately 1,797 rental units currently available throughout the city. To me, that suggests we are not facing a simple shortage of rental units. We are facing an affordability challenge.

At the same time, Virginia Beach is experiencing a declining population.

Since 2020, our population has fallen from approximately 459,000 residents to about 452,000 residents, a decrease of roughly 7,000 people. And that statistic is from World Population Review. So, I have to ask, if our population is shrinking and thousands of rental units are already available, does it make sense to replace valuable green space with another luxury apartment complex? I don't believe it does.

Bonaventure, like any private developer, is making an investment it believes will generate a financial return. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. But the city's responsibility is different.

Your responsibility is to determine whether this proposal serves the long-term interests of the people of Virginia Beach. Not simply whether it can be built, but whether it should be built. And for that, I respectfully ask you to put the needs of our residents first and vote against. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you for coming. Appreciate it.

The next speaker is Mar Margaret Brosteek.

And Miss Brosteek is representing Lake South Civic League.

Hello, Margaret.

Hello and happy birthday.

Hello. Good evening, Mayor Dyer, members of the city council. My name is Mayor Margaret Brostc and I represent Charles Town Lake South Civic League. I'm a lifetime resident of this great city.

I've spoken before some of you many years ago on important subjects such as saving Stumpy Lake, Centerville, SGAA, and other important subjects. Tonight I'm here to talk to you about pausing this subject. It's very important on a lot of different topics. I was going to talk to you about population decline, but um the young lady before me did an excellent job, so I won't repeat that.

In addition to the population decline, uh we need to also look at what is going on nationwide. We have 13 states that have declining or softening housing markets. That is a picture that we need to pay attention to. Um this rising inventory in foreclosures and inventory that is even rising in this city um is something to pay attention to. This is not something to bury our heads and think it's not going

to happen in this city. It has happened before. It can happen again. And there is lots of economic numbers that are starting to sway the decisions that are being made nationwide and also in this city. And even June of this year, we are starting to see unemployment numbers in this city change. We saw it nationwide and it is also happening in this city.

So before we make a decision tonight, I hope that we take that all into consideration.

Um I took the opportunity to look at the Cascades apartments which is less than a mile from this property that we're evaluating voting on tonight. They personally have more than 13 available apartments at this time. They run between 1,800 for a one-bedroom apartment and 2500 for a two-bedroom apartment. They are currently available or are will be available very soon.

Um the other subject that we need to address and it has been spoken a little bit about is um once we remove the green space that is currently available at this property the 8 and 1/2 acres um we can't replace that. We have little green space left in Virginia Beach in certain districts, especially in the Centerville district. And in that area, uh removing that is going to impact Kimville Road and flooding and the

surrounding neighborhoods.

So, please consider that. Um, the other thing I want you to consider is if you have run on transparency or are going to run on transparency for reelection and you have received donations from Bonaventure, I hope you will consider uh refraining from voting on this issue tonight.

The other option would be to at least pause this vote this evening. Um we do have over 6,500 um signatures opposing this um development and as said before we are not opposed all developments. We have 322 apartments that are already planned to be built within 1.8 miles of this development that's proposed.

So these are some things that I hope that you will consider. There is a reporter that broke a article and I thought it was a interesting statement that was made and the statement was is Virginia Beach becoming a victim to its own success and um as someone who's lived here all my life actually go back 14 generations so my roots are extremely deep I have a lot of personal feelings about this city. Um, I do

question that myself. Seen a lot of changes, some good, some not so good.

But some of our growth has been good, but some of it we grew and then we wondered what we're going to do about it. One example is Sandbridge.

We know we've had some a lot of deaths on Sandbridge Road.

uh we put that in and then we didn't know how to take care of the problem with that road and we going to have to spend a whole lot of money to take care of a road that can't handle the capacity. Now this is another example.

Kempsville Road can't handle the capacity we already have and we're going to think about turning around and putting a lot more traffic on a road that can't handle it. So, let's think twice about that. Thank you very much.

The next speaker is Jeremy Wing and after Mr. Wing will be Melissa Dout.

Well, it was a good late night. Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, and members of city council. My name is Jeremy Wing.

I am a district 7 resident and a volunteer member of the open space advisory committee. But tonight, I'm speaking slowly as a private citizen.

I'm asking you to reject or at minimum defer the request resoning for the proposal 251 unit development at 1805 road. We have been told approval would end the backbay farms concept. Denial or deferral would give the community another opportunity to develop and present it. Approval permanently closes the door. Deferral keeps it open when one choice is permanent and the other preserves the city's option. The

responsibility decision is to slow it down. At the Brandon community meeting, uh I met with a couple of the military spouses who spoke overwhelmingly. They said they did not want these apartments even though military housing has been been presented as a reason for the project. Their message was clear. Please put the apartments somewhere else.

Residents also uh raised concerns about congestion, additional traffic, and pedestrian safety. Safety could be established before approving 251 apartments not studied after the traffic and uh pedestrians arrive.

Again, a hawky note was guaranteed.

Bear with me. A hawky note guarant cannot guarantee every distracted driver will stop especially when vulnerable residents must cross a busy road. One mother spoke about uh needing accessibilities amenities for her child with autism. This person this property could be become a p a place that serves families like hers. The backbay farms concept could preserve the property as a teaching farm, farmers market, public

green space, and community gathering place. People raised on farms can teach future generations how food grows. The property could offer education, job training, social connections, and purpose for people with different abilities. Imagine children learning, senior, I'm sorry. Imagine children learning, seniors receiving fresh produce, families gatherings, and people of all abilities contributing. That

could make this property a pillar of District 7.

Again, at a public Fourth of July celebration 2025, Councilman Calvin Jackson Jean said he would want to wanted to keep more money in our pockets. He later supported the meal tax increase. Now we may eliminate land that could be produced used to be produced fresh fruit local food. That does not make sense. As Samantha said um she mentioned that let mother nature do her thing. Once this land is developed we

cannot simply get it back. Although I'm not speaking on behalf of the open space advisory committee. I ask you to take my input uh my input seriously. I have volunteered many hours to open space issues. found Samantha through that and I saw the work that she's been doing and the multiple attitudes and you know helping to advocate and be part of this situation. So I can understand the Woods

family may be open to an alternative if the financial impact can be addressed if private and community partners can preserve the land and bring a farm model like Civer Farms into the community. Why would we not take one month to explore it? Please show me that the time residents spend volunteering matters gives us one month to determine whether another option is possible.

Member of council, you do not have to approve an unfinished alternative tonight. You only need to avoid eliminating it before the community has a fair chance to determine whether it's viable. Again, I would like to see you reject or defer the reszoning and answer the safety and traffic questions. Give the residents, property owners, and Backbay Farms team time to explore an alternative that could benefit the

entire community. Thank you.

Thank you.

The next speaker is Melissa Drought.

Good evening.

Hello again. Um my name is Melissa Drought. I'm the lead of Responsible Growth VB regarding the Backbay farmhouse resoning. You received dozens of emails from residents of Virginia Beach in opposition to this project through that website. We are asking you to defer this application for 30 days.

We strongly support creating more attainable housing in Virginia Beach. We are not asking you to oppose housing and we are not suggesting this property can never change. We respect the rights of a private land owner. But resoning is a public decision and before council approves it, the city should understand the infrastructure consequences and establish who will be responsible for

paying for them. Right now, there's a gap. This project requests a parking reduction based in part on the expectation that residents will walk, bike, and use transit. Yet, one obvious destination for those residents is directly across Chemville Road. We've been told that actual pedestrian demand cannot be fully evaluated until the apartments are built and occupied. So, we know there's an unresolved pedestrian

safety issue. We know that the full solution cannot yet be determined, but the developer's financial responsibility for addressing it is currently limited to just $100,000.

If the eventual solution requires a Hawk pedestrian signal, additional sidewalks, or other improvements, $100,000 may only cover a fraction of the cost. So, who pays the rest? That question should be answered before council makes a permanent land use decision, not after apartments are built. Virginia Beach Thank you.

Virginia Beach taxpayers should not be asked to write a blank check for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in future infrastructure costs created by private development. That's why a 30-day deferral is reasonable. Use those 30 days to establish clear financial responsibility for p per for pedestrian safety mitigation. If additional infrastructure is ultimately required because of this development,

the owner should pay for it. We already know there's a public safety question.

We know the full solution cannot be determined today. And as we stated, we know the developer's current commitment is capped at $100,000.

So there's no reason to approve the resoning first and figure out who pays for its consequences later. Responsible growth does not mean saying no to development. It means addressing the impacts of private development and protecting taxpayers from the bill before saying yes. I respectfully ask that you defer this application for 30 days. Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

We have one WebEx speaker.

Hello.

Mute him just for a second. We have one more in-person speaker. I apologize.

It's a long night. Kath Kathleen Wy Miller.

She's still here.

She should call in. I think she was here. Yes, she showed up.

Is she on WebEx? Okay. So, we do have one WebEx speaker. I'll go ahead and unmute him. Uh, Robert Ryan, you're unmuted.

Yes. All right. Thank you. Uh, good evening. My name is Robert Ryan. I live at Dylan Drive, which is borders the property of 1805 Kensville Road, the current site of the Farmhouse Brewery. I have lived there for approximately 34 years and speaking in opposition of this current the current proposal of building fourstory apartments.

The immediate surrounding area of this property to include the immediate surrounding intersection of Kempville Road and Centerville Turnpike is made up of approximately 97% single family one and twotory residential homes with the remaining 3% being one and twotory commercial structures and multifamily homes. between residential homes and commercial multistructure.

Um, nothing exceeds two stories.

Allowing four-story apartment buildings to be built in this area will severely distract from the skyline and overall look and symmetry of the area.

It would also create a substantial overshadowing of the surrounding residential neighborhood. This overshadowing will create a severe negative impact on the privacy, quality of life, safety, security of the residents in the neighborhood. It will also create a sa uh increased safety concern for middle school students walking to Brandon Middle School on Brandon Boulevard. With the increased

traffic between Centerville Turnpike and Kensville Road, there are better options the developer can take to develop this property. Some examples are max two-story apartments, two-story multi-use buildings with retail and office on the first floor, apartments on the second, or twotory office buildings, one-story strip shop.

All of these eliminate the privacy concerns and drastically reduce the concerns of the quality of life, safety, and security and the symmetry of the um area.

It will all this will benefit the area and the neighborhood. It is your job as a city leaders to delicately balance the preservation of our wellestablished residential neighborhoods while providing economic growth to the city. However, allowing the proposed to move forward as presented does not provide that balance.

We respectfully ask that you deny this proposal as presented and have the developer resubmit plans to not exceed two stories in height. This compromise on their part will better benefit the community in a whole.

Thank you very much, Mr. B. Mr. Bay, would you like to come up for rebuttal?

That's all the speakers. Yes, sir.

Okay. Before I call for the Oh, yeah.

Please come on back up for a rebuttal.

Yeah.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to uh clarify a couple of items. Uh first, regarding traffic, I did want to just clarify that my client did submit a traffic study prepared by the Timmans Group, a certified uh traffic engineer as part of this application, and it was reviewed and approved by the city's traffic engineering department, and that study showed minimal impacts on the surrounding corridor. Additionally on

schools, my understanding is as part of the normal application process, the planning department submits the application to the school system. They have a chance to review the anticipated student generation and they let the planning department know if if the anticipated generation is within acceptable thresholds. I know that occurred in this case and the school system did respond that it is within

acceptable thresholds and they don't have an objection to this case. And then finally, I know there were a couple of speakers that spoke in favor of the application. My understanding was there were a couple of more when we started the night that weren't able to to finish the night with us, but uh I did want to note that for the record. So, thank you very much for your consideration. We'll stand by for questions.

Okay. Thank you.

Uh before I call for the motion, I ask planning Kathy, what what was the um planning commission's vote and uh maybe some other comments?

Uh the planning commission voted 11 to zero in favor of this proposal.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. At this point, do we have a motion?

Yes, Mayor. There is a motion. Um, but before I make that motion, I would just like to address uh District 7. I want to I want to say something just a little bit. As your representative, I am so grateful for the civic groups coming out and showing up because this is what democracy looks like.

But just a word of caution that our civic groups are not to be politicized.

Meaning it's better for us to entertain different ideals and learn how to be civil. This is why I ran for office is to reject the notion that we had to argue, fight.

We could have disagreements, but we don't have to be mean online in person. We don't have to do that. So, this is my caution.

Please, please, please, I'm speaking to everyone. This is my caution.

Civic groups are made to be civil.

That's not what it is.

Okay. Oh, please. Please.

No, no, please. I'm sorry. You are out of order. Okay.

Okay. Please, please. Okay.

Okay. You have So, I'm I'm moving forward. That's my point. It's okay that we have disagreements, but it's not okay to be not civil towards each other.

I'm speaking. Just hear me out. And so all the work that we've done in District 7, it's not just one side, it's 46,000 residents.

And so you can't just take one thing and say, "Well, we're all we have 46,000 residents and we need to work together."

So I'm making a motion to approve this application.

Okay. Please.

Okay. Please. So, as the city council representative, I'm making a motion to approve this motion.

Okay. Do we have a second?

A second.

Okay. We got Hutch as a second open for discussion. Anybody?

Yeah.

Hutch.

Yeah. Hold on.

Yes, I do. Okay. Okay. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Stop. Can you three please, the three civic league, please come up to the podium? I want to ask you a couple questions.

So, just try to breathe here. We're not We're not enemies.

Well, I understand that. But the thing is, wait a minute. Wait a minute. He Hey, stop talking.

Okay, that's your biggest problem right now is you're proving his point.

Okay, fine.

Hey, hold on, bud. Hold on. What What he was trying to say was is not about like what was happening before. He wasn't saying you. He was talking about the group before. It's just okay.

What? That doesn't matter now. We're not Dragas.

It's He's had his point to just be able to talk. We're tired, too. Come on now.

It's only fair.

Is that what you meant? Is you were talking specifically to the people here opposing Dragas versus us?

Whenever there we have a disagreement.

We need to be civil.

And that was just all. Whatever we do, it's not directed towards you. Don't say it to us.

It's not meant for us, Sam. I can speak how I want to speak.

Okay.

And that's not directed towards you, Sam. That's me talking.

Okay.

Okay. Hold on.

Okay. Wait a minute. Hutch, you got the Could I have just just couple questions?

For one is I have no idea what you're talking about about an email. If I've got an email I missed, I sincerely apologize. I I don't I answer all my emails almost 100%. So, if I miss something, I apologize. I asked you for a meeting to discuss the community's concerns.

I swear to you on my boy's head, I didn't see it. So, I apologize for that.

You've got my text. You could have called me, text, anything. I'm just telling you, I didn't. I promise.

I'm I wouldn't I wouldn't lie.

Can we motion to defer?

Wait a minute. Hold on. So, you don't have to raise your hand.

So, so what I what I'm saying though is is what ends up happening. I want to just give you two points, okay? And then ask a couple things. is like the gentleman that spoke in favor sitting back there like he said you gota and I've said this a hundred times in the fire department Rob Brian is one of my guys is is you got to be careful what you ask for because sometimes there's

other consequences and that's what he was trying to say is is that if we if we don't approve this you could end up with a shopping center it's B2 B4 right you could you don't even have to ask us for that right respectfully If you had watched the planning commission all the way through, you would know I already went to all of these neighborhoods. I already asked them. I gave them the pros and cons. I

told them it could be a shopping center.

They still didn't want apartments. I'm very aware of that.

I'm not I I don't have to watch that to validate what I just said. Is is that I'm saying to you is that that's a risk that you take because correct.

We understand, Miss Walsh. I'm asking you a question now. is is that because of the way it's zoned right now, how much do they have to go through to make it into a shopping center and that would be considered a buy right use, right? So that means they could do it.

It doesn't schools like Well, we're only talking I mean it they they have put it to the schools.

Don't be late. The the you know what I'm talking about district one took $15 million out of our budget put into Elbow Road budget. So now we're flooding. Our our paving schedule is delayed.

Y and then this is going to add to that.

It is. And they're they already said they're draining directly into Stumpy Lake.

Again, we're going to ask the the boss here as far as that goes. Is they will have to capture all storm water.

Correct.

That's correct. in the site and during the site plan process that's when we do the storm water analysis right after the fact but it's not going off their pant that's the rules we're strictest in Virginia with that so I'm I'm just trying to quell some things here okay and be honest all right um the the other question I had and this might need you back up but is my understanding is for

this hawk system is I I don't Mr.

manager. Um I'm not sure what the cost is, but with the number I was hearing that y'all were coming in a lot higher than 100 grand to cover that. Is that accurate or not accurate?

Well, $100,000.

Okay. I need you at the at the microphone.

Y space, y'all.

It's got to be a matter of public record folks.

Yes. There is a profered $100,000 contribution towards pedestrian signalization in the profer agreement and and with respect to the pedestrian signalization. We think there's a number of stakeholders along the the Kempville Road corridor who would benefit from this. We know from our traffic study there are currently pedestrians across there now up to two an hour I believe.

Um we know there bus stops on either side who would use pedestrian signalization. And of course this isn't an SGA in a local core zone where additional urban development is is anticipated. So, you know, of course, our our development would also benefit from that, too, which is why we've profered the $100,000 contribution. I'm sorry.

Hold on just a second.

Sorry, Mr. Manager. So, Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hutcherson, they have profered $100,000. A hawk is significantly more.

It's probably roughly around $500, $600,000 right?

They've made an initial We need to talk about that. That's what I'm saying. So is is that we to to be good stewards of the taxpayers's dollars, which I know is up for question tonight, but is is that that is something that can y'all consider. I'm not I'm not necessarily saying we got to have exact number tonight, but we have to kind of figure out where the middle ground is that that can be accomplished

because that's one of the big issues here right?

Yeah. Okay. I don't know if you want to comment now or before I vote on it, we're going to have a talk on that is what I'm telling you.

Sure. I I would need to confer with my colleague. Go ahead, Mr. Styles.

That is a a a a profer. You cannot change that profer and vote on it tonight. Furthermore, the profer has to be voluntary.

So, I would be careful about suggesting.

Okay, I hear you. That's why you're here. I appreciate it.

No, not at all. And just to finish my point, the the other thing is this profer is in addition to the there's a 11 foot wide um side path that's also been profered by the applicant across the frontage of the entire site to also aid in the pedestrian connectivity along this corridor as well. Just wanted to point that out too.

Mr. Mayor, um, Council Member Hutcherson, Mark, just because if the council votes in support of this today, it doesn't necessarily mean that because they offered $100,000 profit that the conversation is finished. Right.

Right. But I want to give these three ladies and their people some some assurance that we're not just giving them lip service. That's why.

Thank you. And Hutch, next time lead with that.

Are you talk? Did you say me?

Yeah.

Next time lead with that.

I'm sorry. We were talking the whole time you came down, so it was kind of hard to get a word in, but um I can do this all night. I had 500 firefighters.

So um I don't know if we can make a substitute motion or how that's got to work, but um yeah, I tell you what, at this point, touch you go. You want to make a substitute?

There's one in 30 days. Yeah, I think that's what we got to do is say we've got to come up with this this proper for them to to be in the I mean it's also very late. Maybe y'all need to sleep on it.

Yeah, I'll second that motion.

Okay, I don't know.

Just defer it.

No, I'm not trying to put y'all in a hard spot, but this is something I was under the impression we were up around $400,000 for it. That's what I was told. So, this is the first I'm hearing a hundred. I'm just being honest. Yeah.

Okay. Oh, Josh.

Um, Mr. Mayor, I just I just had a couple quick questions here. Um, because I I think what we heard from the community, um, or at least the community members present is that they they they were not happy with the residential development at that location. Um, and I'm not sure I'm I'm not sure that deferring it to talk about how much of a contribution on a hawk signal would change any of

um their the the the viewpoints here about whether or not, you know, be whether or not they're comfortable with a residential development versus a commercial development. So, I I don't that that may that may make some folks happy if there's a little bit further clarity and additional dollars and time spent, but but I don't really think that gets to the crux of the issue that we're

that we're hearing from the people who came and spoke tonight. And I I do want to say thank you for coming. Um for me, I heard traffic and storm water. Um that's that's what I heard and then impacts on schools as well. Um, and I was looking at the traffic study and some of the planning um, reporting and and it it looks like the road is presently um, although it may not feel like it

when you're traveling at rush hour um, is is the present volume is under the capacity of the road. So the present volume is 27,760 average daily trips. the capacity is much more than that. 327 um 32,700 average daily trips. And um the the existing zoning B2 uh if it were built out at 40% coverage would generate another 1,892 trips. So almost 1,900 average daily trips. And I know it's counterintuitive

and I've I've had to scratch my head over it too, but um resident if if they bless you. Um if if they were to go ahead and we were to approve this under the proposed land use, it would it would generate less traffic. And and I know I know that doesn't make sense sometimes, but if you think about a business, people are coming and going from the business all day long. Does that take into consideration?

Excuse me if you don't mind. Um, people are, it's late and I don't want to lose my train of thought because I've got another couple questions too, but um, the the coming and going all day long in a commercial shopping center is much different than people waking up and going to work and coming home.

Well, that's the problem.

Okay, please.

Um, so the other thing um, storm water I think Miss Miss uh, Miss Walsh touched on and and we all know that we do have strict standards and um, the strictest in the state. They've got to capture and treat the water. Um the stormwater I I would I would suppose would be in a in a better situation um after the redevelopment um as as opposed to what it currently is especially from a water

quality uh perspective. Um and then and then lastly, I mean I know we all have enjoyed going to farmhouse and the brewery and um the charm of that historic home and I mean just the property in general is just a really cool piece of property. Um, and I would hate to see that go away. I would hate to see that home go away. And um, and I I I respect y'all and your your u you

know, obviously your the the folks you brought with you today. And um, for you for for me to hear that you would rather have a shopping center there as opposed to preserve the historic farmhouse, I I I don't know that that best serves your community in my own view. Um, I don't live there and I I understand the the opposition. Um, but but I I cannot support um um I cannot support a a

situation where we're just going back and talking to the developer about how much money they want. They they may or may not want to contribute for a hawk signal when I I think that's kind of hiding the ball a little red herring.

And what we're hearing is folks don't want either they do or they don't want a residential development. Um I'm just worried about if if not that then what they can do by right would be far worse um for your community and especially if it involves removing the historic homes.

So those are my two cents.

Okay. Anybody else?

Mayor, I just want to turn on your mic.

I just want to close out. Um we appreciate you being here. This was never meant to be personal.

But we need to understand that this is the Wood families.

This is their property.

They have been flexible in listening to the residents.

And I think if we were looking to do something, I think we need to make a consensus to do that now or later.

So my motion is to proceed with approving because I don't think 30 days from now is going to solve the issue. If they don't want it then I mean what are we going to do? So that's my motion is to proceed forward.

Okay. Do we have a substitute? Okay.

Jennifer.

Hello.

Um it's late and this is getting convoluted and I know this is a lot of back and forth. So, I'll just say um I've read through the planning commission comments and then what I'm aware of the project and I don't know who can give clarity on that, but where I'm having trouble with it is because we were getting emails or I know probably individually where people were saying preserve the farmhouse, preserve the

farmhouse. And I responded, well, the first I heard about it was through the news because it's not something that came through council. it's something that the uh the property owner was ready to move on and do something else. And so then this development came up as a way to preserve it and to do housing and all of that. And so where I feel stuck is in working with the property owner have

they indicated that they would want to do something like that. There wonderful ideas here, but I think the big one was to preserve the farmhouse and this was a way to do it. So that's where I feel stuck on this. Um, I believe that Sam and Danielle have actively tried to make contact with representatives of the Woods family, and it wasn't until this past Friday that Shauna actually sat

down with her to discuss some uh to discuss options like a farmers market similar to the one on Princess Anne. Um, and so that's another reason we were asking for deferment was for more time to come up with a business plan that could actually benefit everyone.

It keeps the space a community space.

Can you speak in the microphone, please?

It keeps the space a community space, which is what the community is wanting.

That's one of the main conversations we had with Bonaventure when they were asking us what we did and didn't like with their proposal. And they can agree that every single person at the meeting said, "We want a community space. That's what we use this for. We ride our bikes here. We walk here. We take our kids here. We gather here as a community. We love the farmhouse and we don't want it

to go. We understand it's their property and they can develop it or try, you know, request this change to to do what they want. But we requested to keep it as a community space. We offer, like she said, we tried to meet to discuss a business plan for maybe a farmers market, keep the coffee shop there with the farmhouse, keep it a community space. Brandon does not have a park.

They don't have green space. They already have a pathway that leads directly to this land. We talked to open space committee to see if it would be something that the Virginia Beach would be willing to purchase from the family to preserve as a community space and ultimately it was denied. So there's been a lot of thoughts out there for us.

We don't want a strip mall. We don't want to knock down the farmhouse. We love this space. And that's kind of the conversation that has been around this redevelopment resoning.

So, mayor, I have successfully negotiated for the farmhouse, historic farmhouse to be preserved.

And so, that was one of the profers that are in there that's going to happen.

Yeah.

Mhm.

Um number two is that we are still in conversations about how we can make that green space um something that we can open up to the community because we understand the significance of it and that's what I have been negotiating with um a venture by listening to the residents. So I hear you. I do.

Um so there are two profers in there. I think um when it comes to the hawk signal I think there was something that Taylor Franklin had did for the silos where we approve something but then we were able to have a second conversation if there was monies that um we can agree on. I don't know how we need to proceed there, but I understand that the taxpayers don't want to pay for it.

And so I don't know what to say there, but I do know that we have two profers that are in the proposal and that I've negotiated for uh the residents of district 7.

Okay. Okay, Stacy.

Yeah, just real quick. Um um just because Patrick uh help me here, but the idea of a hawk signal is not a guarantee. I mean, it's even if it's funded, it means that there's a long process that has to be gone through to determine whether it's warranted or whether it's uh even feasible to put a hawk system in in there. So, I mean, we may be talking about something that is not possible

and won't be even determined until uh you know, maybe years down the road.

Patrick, can you walk us through that?

So, it's a it's a long lead time. Um, it probably is warranted based on the projected um pedestrian impacts on the project.

It's a long lead time obviously. So, if we only get $100,000, right, we still have to find the remaining $500,000 from the budget. And then, as you know, Mr.

Cummings from your district is probably and Mr. Remick and Mr. Shman is probably another 12 to 18 month process to get it ordered and get it manufactured, get all the necessary electrical systems routed and any kind of utility clearance necessary to get it done. So it's probably another 18 months down the road and it's it probably times honestly with probably the development timeline that

they have as well though. So it's not a today decision. It still will be more work to do because if council approves this, we would still probably be working with Mr. bean to see if they would cover more of the cost cuz $100,000 just does just doesn't do it. And in order for us to fully cover cost, it means we'll be taken from another project somewhere else in the city. So, we still need to

figure that out with them.

Mhm.

Okay.

Okay. At this point, we got a substitute motion on the table.

Well, yeah. Can I make a substitute after seconding? I'm just trying to make sure I follow the rules now.

Sorry. Can I make a substitution after seconding the first one?

We got to vote it.

Yeah, we got to vote on the substitute, right?

Yeah.

You You made a You made a substitute motion.

Oh, I did. Okay, cool.

Wait, so the substitute motion was to defer for 30 days, correct?

Correct.

I'm saying on what we've found out now and then what I'm hearing from them.

There was a second on that. So you you don't want to move I'm good to defer for 30 days. Yeah.

Okay. We're going to open a a vote uh for uh to defer for 30 days.

This is for the substitute motion to defer for 30 days. Correct.

Defer.

Yes. Okay. Go ahead and open the vote.

The vote's open.

Let's see.

Maybe I have to refresh.

You might have to refresh. I'm sorry.

and Council Member Ross Hammond.

Even though she gave me the instructions, Council Ross Hammond.

Yeah, this thing's all jacked up now.

We could just take your verbal vote.

Verbal decide.

Okay. Um, yes, Councilman Ross Hammond, I can take your ver verbal vote.

Sorry.

Yeah, this is a substitute motion.

I know. But I need council Ross Hmon. I need your verbal vote.

Oh, she got it.

Yes.

Thank you.

Yes. For the 30 days.

Go ahead and close it.

Has everybody voted?

Yeah.

By vote of 10 to one.

Thank you very much. Now, so thank you.

That that was the substitute motion. Now that becomes the main motion. Correct, Mark?

Okay. Now it's the main motion and we got to vote on it. Do we have a Is that right?

Y where the substitute motion is to defer, I don't think you have to vote twice.

That's the exception to Perfect.

Okay.

And you know, folks, let you know, let me just make a comment. You know, I used to be the centerar number of years ago.

And you know, once again, we and I'm just going to say something that I've said often over my 21 years. You know, I was the Centerville guy for 14 years and you know, I was the one that brought in the Infinity and Oh, no. I brought in Cascades first and then when we were talking about the Infinity, we still had that uh you know um wood wood area wetlands right in the middle of Linhaven Parkway between

Centerville and uh and Indian River Road. And Infiniti did agree to wait a year until we got that open.

Okay. And guess what? We got it in. And you know, once again, we had the good neighbor uh thing. We got 450 units right across from each other and they eventually became our neighbors. uh you know some of which uh you know you are um actively involved in and and if if it's okay I'm going to make a little bit of a statement that I would have made and I once again I thank

you folks for you know calm listening and everything and I was not able to say this before back in 2023 our city council in a retreat determined that housing was our fourth highest priority in the city and that was after flood flood mitigation, public safety and schools. And the thing is whether we like it or not, we have what we call a housing crisis, not only in the city of Virginia Beach, not only in

the Commonwealth of Virginia, but throughout this great great nation of ours. And we have to do something about it.

And one of the things I'm about I was and I know it's late but I don't want you to leave here without an understanding of what we are doing and why whether it be the last vote or this one. Um number of years ago I went to uh the Pentagon with a group called the Hampton Roads Military Federal Facilities Alliance and I I was the chair. every under secretary, assistant secretary of state,

all branches between here and Fort Eustace Langley, we are desperate for housing, for military, for military readiness and also for recruitment and retention. And I'm taking a little time now and that's true because I got a a memo here from Admiral Codle who is now the chief of oper uh naval operations.

He made a determination in Newport News.

He doesn't want sailors living on ships anymore. They were having depression problems, suicide problems, and guess what? They got they got, you know, pushed out there. So, but once again when we talk about, you know, confronting a crisis about what we're doing and, you know, once again growth is essential because I can tell you that we have billions of dollars and obligations coming with more storm water

and things. We have to create new revenues. We have to create the housing.

But I'll tell you what, but just, you know, once again, I like this project. a lot of people have objections to, but once again, I think you understand that you were heard and now we can communicate and you know, be assured that you know that you know, let me put it this way. I've worked with Bonaventure before. It's going to once it's built and people occupied, they're going to be your neighbors, too. And

that's what happens sometimes. But once again, thank you for your time and we really appreciate it. Thank you.

We have one more.

We have one more item.

Mayor, the only other item you all have is L5, but the the person who was opposed was on WebEx.

Okay.

And I don't I don't believe they're on WebEx anymore.

Okay. Is anybody here on the YMCA? So only the applicant I can call I call the opposition's name to see if they're here in person if you would like because you only had one person opposed.

Okay, that was Denise Ma.

Yeah. So we don't have I mean we just have the applicant here.

It's mine, right?

I don't think so. We'll see what happens. Hold on.

Hey, do we So I just move to approve it.

Second.

Okay. Do I have anybody?

As long as you don't get up to talk.

We have open. The vote is open.

I second.

Oh, thank you, Council Jackson Green. May I have your vote please?

Thank you. By vote of 11 to zero, you've approved the application.

Okay.

You have appointments?

Yes. One.

Okay. Okay. We're going to go to appointments now.

Um, Mr. Mr. Mayor and members of council, we have one appointment and that's for the Southside Network Authority to appoint uh Amanda Jarrett.

Okay. No other things. Let's open the vote.

By a vote of 11 to zero, you have appointed Miss Jarrett to the Southside Network Authority.

Okay. At this point, um, is do we have any unfinished business? New business.

Okay. We're going to go and adjourn and go to open mics.