City Council Special Meeting, Retreat Day 1 Morning session on 08/27/25, Clip 3 of 3.

Welcome back, Julie. Go right ahead and get let's get rolling.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good morning, everyone.

Um, hope everyone had a good evening.

Uh, you all know, but um, Miss Rouse is teaching in class this morning. Um, so it's kind of hidden, but our uh what we want to do today is do us a very quick recap of your conversation yesterday. If there is anything that bubbled up overnight or you forgot to say or you want to revisit, we will invite that.

But um feel like we had a pretty thorough conversation yesterday. And then the rest of the day is for you to discuss some of your governance topics, your legis legislative package topics that um you just haven't had a chance to have a longer discussion about. Um uh so that and we will adjourn no later than 11:30 this morning.

Um, any questions about what we're here to do today and what we're intending to accomplish?

Perfect. So, just quick recap of yesterday. We started the conversation about the ITA. The board we were working on is over on the wall behind the coffee beverage station. Um, uh, you all gave staff general direction. So, we used our dots to give general direction.

The dots aren't formal votes. Anything that requires a formal vote will come back to you all to be voted upon. Um there is tremendous enthusiasm to continue moving forward with sports tourism at um and figuring out what the next steps are. Looking at a feasibility and economic impact study um looking at funding for some of the small items that could be done more easily. Um public comment and feedback and um moving

forward. So staff got the direction to move forward with sports tourism.

There is also enthusiasm for innovation park expansion with a lot more exploratory conversations there. What would um uh what would a feasibility or economic impact study tell us there?

What might we do um to amend the ITA master plan? and what is some funding that's required and then Lita is to continue on the current path themes throughout all of those. We want to hear from the public. We want to ensure flood protection and we want to continue to seek public private partnerships or you know private funding to help support. So that was our ITA discussion and the

general direction that we've given to staff.

You looked like you had something to say. No.

Um All right. So then after the ITA, we moved to the um focus areas and success factors for the next 24 months. You also used dots to share your highest priorities with staff and share what they meant. We spent more time on the items that received the most dots. But all of this is going to be taken by staff and fleshed out. Uh uh staff I had heard after felt like you

gave them really good direction and um have a lot of understanding of what council priorities are. But just to recap, economic development, jobs, workforce development, and tourism was the highest ranked item. Um, affordable and workforce housing and homelessness was next. Public safety uh fell after that. And then flooding and taxes and government affordability. Had a long conversation about that. And that one um

we talked about is a little different because some of that is not direction for staff although some of it is a lot of that is you all talking amongst yourselves. So what about what tough decisions you might be have to make. Um after after that mobility, transit, transportation, trails, um traffic, uh safety was the next one and then infrastructure, the ITA, education, uh resident engagement and relations,

services based on changing demographics and land use. Um so all of these continue to be important. The level of dotting just tells the staff what is a higher priority, bigger focus in the next two years. Talked about success factors. Staff will come back to you after they've heard more from the public. They'll come back to you in about a month for with a draft and then um have time for feedback and a final

uh two-year focused action plan adopted sometime late November. And then staff will use this uh to set their work plans and their priorities and how they'll report to you on progress. So those were that's the recap of yesterday.

I tell you what, I want to thank everyone concerned. I thought we had a very very productive, cordial, colleial and uh you know just you know really some good outcomes and you know the chemistry was positive and uh you know we're so thankful to so many people you know this was those conversations were in the making over the last year or two or whatever. you know, working with a

great staff with great management and uh you know, a great public too because a lot of you have been out there listening to your public and I just think uh you know the culmination was yesterday you know when I think we reached a very very good place but once again we know our challenges and uh tell you what we're going to embrace the future I think a lot more positively as a So, okay,

Mr. Mayor, I did just want to ask if anyone had comments, things that came up overnight or there feel good where they are.

Okay, great. Okay, sorry for clearing my throat. Um, all right. So, do we have a written listing of these so that when we're out telling people what our priorities are, we'll get it straight?

Um, somebody put it together for us.

Council member Henley, we typically do usually we take about one to two weeks after we have this meeting and then we usually send a city council a list of what we heard and what we compiled before we even as a department send out the one that the department heads want to work for your initiatives. But we will get you a document that kind of says the things that you all discussed today. That's correct, right, Monica?

Uh thank you for that, Mr. Manager.

Actually, Fountain Works will provide a council report so that they can get exactly what uh c the facilitators heard you said and we always send that to them. And of course, as uh I guess Julie discussed it yesterday, the whole process will be iterative. So, council will see it as drafts, but when it comes to this official retreat, our facilitators do a report that we always send to council that documents the

discussion. Well, I do have my district forum tomorrow afternoon and everybody knows I've been at the retreat and they're going to want to know what we talked about. So, I'll do the best I can to uh to report it.

I I would also say, Miss Henley, any members of council, I have my little cheat sheet of the order. We'd be happy to write one of these on a postit for you so you at least have that listing to take out where because we know you're going to start seeing constituents this afternoon. Yeah. Anything else?

Good to go.

All right. So, so this is a section that's less structured from me and is more dependent on you all and what you want to discuss. Um, as I said at the end of the day yesterday, we in our interviews with all of you heard a few topics that you thought would be good to discuss at the council. you've also manager has been hearing topics or at council meeting things have come up. So

this um this can be uh your choice of whether or not you discuss it, what exactly you discuss and how much you discuss. But just in alphabetical order, the things that we heard you might want to discuss is council pay. You all work for pennies on the hour. Um, and so making that as a topic uh to make council more accessible for other people that might want to run. Uh, council policies.

There's different policies that the council has and how you operate, how you work with each other. Um, and so this is just sort of an open topic of what you might want to talk about. The legislative package is coming up that you all will be putting together your legislative package in particular ebikes is something that has been mentioned but could be more and then street naming what the council's policy um is or

practice is about street naming that's what we heard got more space and I would turn it to you mayor to decide where we Uh uh I think Amelia has an interest in the council pay and she's on a short uh window today. So uh Ameilia, why don't you go ahead and get rolling.

Okay. Good morning again. Thank you. Um I did check with our legislative and find out uh more information to do with council pay and several other councils across the city are also asking. And can I ask uh Dana to please come up? Tony to share that with everybody.

Good morning, mayor, members of city council. Um, this is actually drawn from a CCSR you received in July of last year. So, state law changed in 2024. The previous state law cap was an annual salary of $30,000 for a mayor and a $28,000 salary for a member of city council. Uh the state law has different population bands and of course we are at the top population band. Um by way of history in 2005

the city council current adopted the current 30,000 for the mayor and 28,000 for members of city council. So the salary structure has been in place for 20 years. So, the state law change that occurred last year says that this council can choose to adopt salaries for a mayor up to $56,000 as an annual salary members of city council, up to $52,000 for members of city council. To make this change requires a public

hearing. It has to occur at least four months before the November 2026 election and it would be effective July 1 following. So if this council adopted it before 2026, it would be effective July 1, 2027 and then separately that ordinance could include an inflation factor. So you don't have what has occurred which is 20 years of no growth.

Um so that could be something that you add. Thank you.

Oh, thank you Amelia. And I do have two others to do with the legislative package that we should include about the um flooding, about transportation, and also unpaid or unfunded mandates.

Okay.

Thank you.

I'm interested to hear uh from other people on the council pay.

Yeah. So, I'm one of the proponents for it. Um, I just think that uh I don't I don't know if I'd even call it pay. Um, it's more of a stipen, I think, the way I see things. But, um, uh, just back to everything that I believe in for, uh, fair pay for a fair job. Um, there are those of us, uh, three of us kind of sitting right here that that

don't really have to worry about this.

So, I'm not I'm not uh not using the money for living. Uh as a matter of fact, I donate it all to charity. Um I think others do as well. Um but there's some there's some on council and there's been some in the past on council that can't do that. They have to they need to rely on it. Um the hours we all know I conservatively figured 30 hours a week

and I think that for some that are on multiple committees. Uh that's a low number. I know that goes around. For some of us that are newer, we're probably not as we haven't got the number of committees that everybody else has. Um so our numbers are a little lower most likely, but uh but still 30 hours is 30 hours. And uh and then the as when I was the fire chief, you are

never really off duty, are we? You you constantly have uh people calling, texting, sending you emails, you know, unless you are way out of town and even then you still kind of pay attention. So I just feel like to to afford others the opportunity that do have to work.

Councilwoman Woman Rouse is a perfect example. She may want to be a teacher.

I'm not I'm not trying to say that. And if she wants to do that, that's great.

But if she's doing it to pay for her household, would she have to do that if our salary or stipen or whatever we're going to call it was at the range where she could not have to do that? Um I just think that should be factored in. Um, not saying for me as it's a vote on it today, but it's for Patrick and the team to look at it and look across the state,

see what everybody else is doing, where it falls in, um, and and go from there.

Thanks.

Okay, I want to hear from everybody.

Stacy.

Well, I um this was an issue during my campaign because the law changed during that time and I was asked and I said at the time that I'd be against raising the amount that originally the amount paid to council members was, as uh Councilman Hutch just said, it's a stipen. It was meant to offset your expenses, that the effort and work that you put in should be a service to the community. And uh

raising raising the amount of that stipen to think that we're going to that's fair pay for fair um fair effort is ridiculous because um I'm working way more now than I did in my previous life.

Many more hours. many more obstacles, many more challenges.

Not that my easy not that my past life was all that easy, but this this this is a full-time job. So, if you're doing it uh for the compensation, you know, you're in it for the wrong reason in my opinion that this should be public service. This should be something that uh you want to do from the heart.

And uh I am fortunate. I am blessed. Uh as Councilman Hutch said, you know, we're in a position where the money uh doesn't matter to us. It's I I like Councilman Hutch, I donate mine back to city causes and um I'm blessed to be able to do that. But I think if we start getting the compensation to a point to where people are doing it for the money, then we're going to end up with um

people doing it for the wrong reason.

They're going to do it as a job and not as a matter of public service. And that's all I'll ever say about the subject.

Very appreciate it. Worth.

Good morning everyone. I'm mixed on this topic and I share both of my council members comments and thoughts on this.

Uh I too kind of in the same boat as they are. Although I am uh I am carrying two jobs and um I will say this uh my job right now is full-time 50 hours or more sometimes 60 hours a week and that is an honest sincere assessment. That being said and I probably make it that way as well. I also have a my other job that has been my career for 40 years.

And so yes, I have looked at public service over the years and never wanted to get into this position because of sacrificing my time for this. And so I am now in a position to do what I'm doing. So I recognize that because city council should not be uh representative of where I am at this point in my life.

It should be all walks of life, all areas of the city of course and all um perspectives and and income levels and and etc. So I'm mixed on this. Uh I'm also wary of increased spending. Um, so I u well there's and the other thing I mean $28,000 versus and I don't know what's on the table but to have a livable wage in the city and if that's the going to

be the goal then it's going to be a substantial increase and then probably some kind of inflation factor should be built into it because we do have two 3% annual inflation. But you know I'm mixed on this. Um, at this point I'm I'm open.

Uh, I'm not going to say one way or the other, not because I'm being political, because I I'm truly mixed because I I don't want to see the increase spending.

I'm also very blessed to have have had and currently have a very effective uh legislative aid and that has really helped me over the past year and I previous to that I was against spending the money for legislative aid and right now my life is so much better and I could not do the level of service without that my legislative aid. So um that's where I am.

I do believe in the Jeffersonian ideal of the public the the gentleman farmer or the gentlewoman farmer u legislator that they it's part-time and not full-time. We whether it's general assembly, US senate or local office. I think we should be able to carry two jobs. Thank you Michael.

Thank you. Well, uh, similarly, I'm very mixed on this topic because I do believe that, um, public service is just that, public service. And, um, I don't think there's anyone who's sitting around this table as a council member who is motivated by the compensation, um, that we receive here. Um, and as was previously mentioned, if you are, it's a feudal, it's you picked the wrong path.

um because it's not a lucrative one, but it's a rewarding one because you can help your neighbors improve the outlook for our for the great city of Virginia Beach and the people who live here moving forward. And it's a great privilege. I was even reflecting last night about the retreat and even though we have diff differences of opinion on topics, it's such a privilege to to be here and to

participate in these important conversations that shape the future of our city. And because it's such an important privilege, we have to be mindful of who can participate. And um that's why I'm also torn about it and and I can see both sides of the coin because you if we don't create an environment where everyone has a chance to participate. Then what you will get is a council member and no

offense to anyone but a council member that is comprised of multi-millionaires, retired people and people who have full control over their own schedule and we know that that is not representative of the people we serve. So that's why I believed in legislative aids. Um, it's why I think we should create um an environment where every citizen has an opportunity to serve because if not,

we're going to end up with a council that doesn't represent the people we serve. So, we should provide points of access to as many people. So, I could see both sides of this and look forward to continuing the conversation.

Thank you, Michael. Barbara, are we only talking about the pay issue and not the others? Well, as far as the pay, I I think when I first came on it was like $4,800 and uh that was a a pretty small amount and then it went to 20 uh8 or whatever it is now. I I agree.

Um you know, this is the reason is not the pay. Uh but it's also important that the people who are on the council have flexibility with the schedule because it's just the work itself is requires it. Uh we wouldn't be able to do the work if you had to be at a particular job at a particular time because you wouldn't be able to participate as council leaison to these committees and do all the things. So

there there are certain restrictions that the job itself requires, not just the pay. Uh and I I think it certainly is uh public service, but it is important for everybody to to uh be able to uh consider uh serving. But there are a lot of different ways to serve. And um I've been fortunate that uh just our lifestyle was as farmers and I say farmers never retire. So, we'll be working forever and we work every day,

seven days a week. So, this just kind of fits into the schedule that that I have and and has worked for me. So, everybody has to consider their own situation as to whether or not they're really going to be able to do the work. It it's not just a matter of pay. Uh I'm I'm not really uh inclined to uh be willing to vote for a a big pay increase at this

time, but maybe if we just put in the inflation factor and just let it begin now, uh which 20 years is a long time to go without it. But if it did have an inflation factor that automatically kicked in every year, that might be a way that we could address it in some fashion.

Okay. Cash, thank you. Um I am one of these uh anomalies that um that represents my district um which is I'm truly a part of the working class. Had no intention of running for office. It just happened on upon me. meaning I felt that I could best represent the people in my district because I was a car salesman and uh because of being in car sales you meet

so many people and that I began to say I can I can I I can represent their life because their life is my lifestyle but with that being said I'm the sole provider of my family and I've got adult children who have gone on to uh productive careers to serve in our country but Nevertheless, um it takes a special employee employer that is civic-minded to understand the oath of office in which I swore to.

Not every employer is civic-minded. They want you to produce. And when you are a white collared worker, blue collar in heart, the um employer doesn't quite know what to do with an elected official who manages a budget of $2.8 billion.

That's that's different.

So um having said this, I am the example of moving from one employer to the next employer while being on council.

So I currently have three jobs to compensate for my lifestyle because this is not about pay for me. Those that know me, they know the people are my passion.

I'm the guy that silly me call me that.

If you call me, you say, "Can you be at my my ribbon cutting? I'm opening a new business." I go, "Let me see. I'll go out my lunchtime." And yes, that's me.

Silly me. I say yes to the people. But with that yes, for every yes comes in my current job an output of I've got to perform even harder to make up for me saying yes to go into a ribbon cutting, which I understand. I'm a public servant and it is my sacrifice and I will willingly do it. But I will tell you this, I'm in favor of a pay increase. Why? I had and

I'll close with this.

I was on council. We were on the dis and I had made a vote based on a very con um a very contentuous um vote.

Um my um my uh resident and neighbor said to me, "Why did you vote in the way you did?" I said, 'Well, I took the information based on me working every day. I took planning um I took all the information I read in the notes from planning. Um two, I took staff's um advice in their vote of confidence on that subject. Three, I went out and talked to the people myself. She says, "We need you more."

She said, "You are my representative, not city staff, not planning commission.

you are my representative. And I said to her, I said, "What you're saying is I need to do I need to give more of my hours, which I'm willing to do, but I want to let you know it. That's why this is that's why I have three jobs." So, that's my point. My point to you is this is a full-time job, but in order for it to for me to effectively vote correctly,

then I have to have a job where um this is my full-time job. And then I have to have employers that even though I signed up for a full-time job, they understand that they're that they're working around the schedule that it's part-time.

This becomes the full-time job.

Thank you.

Thank you, Josh.

Um I mean, I I commend everybody for bringing this up and talking about it.

Thank you, Hutch. Um, and u, it's a tough issue cuz a lot of people just, well, a lot of people understand the time commitment. I know we all get lots of thank yous and I can't believe, you know, you put in the time you do and um, but then there's some people that don't.

Um, but I know just like Council Member Luchcci said, uh, I I think everyone around this table would probably volunteer for this job and get zero pay.

um because we love the city so much. Um I mean that that being said, when we ran, we knew um I certainly I I knew it was going to be a I like to say it's a full-time part-time gig.

Um and I mean, you all know me, so you you know my juggle. I've got a business I own and manage and um I practice law. I don't do big deals, but when your clients need you, they do.

And um not really practicing much law these days because I had to turn one of the spets off a little bit. And then I'm a dad, which is like job number one. So um and and I'm able to do all those things and this because I feel the same way around the table is there's nothing in life that's important that you do by yourself. And I thank God for my

employees. I thank God for my wife and kids who are understanding.

Um, and my clients were patient. Um, and you know, regardless of which way our election system ends up, like whenever that gets settled, but I mean, we're going to have single member districts.

Um, it looks like because that's what the state code says. So, um I know that that has created a completely different kind of um work commitment from council members and from staff. Um and people are more grassroots and and u and you know, I'm I'm not I I don't do this job for the compensation. Um I and even if we got a salary bump, I wouldn't view it that way. But um you know, I

gave up. I gave up considerable um opportunity and income in order to do this job and I did it because I wanted to and I feel like I have something to give. Um but there is an opportunity cost for doing that.

It costs your family. It costs you know your your job and your your clients and it you know it and it costs I mean like we we I'm sure we all do get up and go to bed thinking about this job.

So, wake up in the middle of the night, think about a job. Um, so anyway, I I I like the fact that if we were to do this, it wouldn't apply to us. It wouldn't I I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to put this out there and then have it apply to me. I'll go run for the job again and and let let the chips fall where it is. I'd be even okay if it

never applied to me, period. Um, but I think I think we want diversity of thought. I think we want people who have kids, people who have jobs, people who juggle, people who are complicated, you know. Um I think it makes for better better government and better better ability to relate to the the citizens.

Millia and then Rosemary.

Boy, these are hard acts to follow, but thank you for sharing. Um I am a retired uh professor having taught K all the way through at university. I've been in education for over 43 years and I have enjoyed it and I made a decision at a certain age to retire.

One to help take care of my mother and the other I got so excited working with uh city council. I realize it is like a full-time job.

And so if you're going to do this, you really need to be passionate about it and dedicated about it. I'm from a family of five, four brothers and myself. And so people wondered the first time where I ran where I had three young men running against me. I was comfortable working with gentlemen because I'm the eldest in my family and also my parents, my father from um was a mayor for about 13 years overseas. So

I've enjoyed politics all my life and this gave me a chance to come in and serve. Saying that now I am retired. I have one adult son, one granddaughter.

And when you retire, a lot of you know, you go to kind of getting peanuts, but you still learn to work with that. And I've learned to work with that and work with what I do here. So like um Cash Councilman Green said, each group has different pockets to deal with. And in my job and over here, I'm not one of those in as you would call deep pockets. But I work within my

means. And I think this opportunity for some of us in certain districts and so forth, especially when you're running, if you don't have a huge amount to work with, you come in with only certain amount.

But still, it is not to do with that. It is to do with the service. So I would support if it came in for somehow something like that because really it will not go in effect Dana until what 27.

But you're looking at preparing something for the next group because as you all know I serve with uh HRT and that's six cities and afterwards all of the cities council members there and mayors are saying we're going to try this year one city. I forgot which city it was. There's one city that has that right now. Is it Portsmith?

One of the cities. But any Newport News or Newport News, one of the cities have it too.

Yeah. Newport News or Portsmith. And to say what if this is passed again, they would like to try that and see that for not only themselves, for the next generation of people that come in. And that's how I feel about it. And I thank you.

Some pretty amazing comments have been made here and very heartfelt and really appreciate everybody speaking. What's what's not on your mind, but what's in your heart. I would be really interested in it's been 20 years since we had a pay increase. If we took that inflation factor and did it for 20 years, what our salary would be today? Can we get one of our mathematical geniuses to figure that out for us?

H So, that's one of the things I'd like like to know. Um, none of us do this because of the money.

We do this because we're public servants and we want to make our city a better place, help our neighbors, and create the quality of life that we've grown up with and we would like everybody else to have too. And it's a huge responsibility. Cash talked about the $2.8 billion budget, and we've talked about the constraints and the difficulties that we have to deal with, but all of us, no matter from what point

of view you come from, we all have the best intentions. And I and and I know that we all want this to be a great place. Um we don't do it because of the money and there's people who would would be able to do who would be able to do it because of the money like Cash talked about.

It's a third job. It's a second job for me, but it's a third job for him. and he's a sole provider for his family.

So having a little extra money gets people to be able to do this job, not because they didn't want to do it, but maybe they couldn't have done it before. And now that we have this 101 district system, and who knows what's going to happen in the future, um the candidate pool is really small. It's 45,000 people in your each district. to find a good schoolboard member and a good council

member. And some areas, some districts are much harder to find than area, especially your working class areas because they've got to go to work, put food on the table, pay their rent to get their kids to go to school. That's got to be the most important thing to them.

And this is a little bit of a luxury to be able to serve and and do this job.

And a lot of those type of districts there's less people who are able to to do it because some of it's because of the money a able because of the money.

So I'd be interested in finding out what our salary would be today if we had had inflationary and and I think it's something we need to have a a serious discussion about. Thank you.

Okay. Uh Patrick u Mr. Mayor, we calculated 46,000.

Okay.

That is amazingly fast. All right, so you look at 46,000 is 52. You're not really that far off.

Yeah.

Okay, I guess it's my turn. Um Yeah. You know, I'm going to be honest with you. I feel very strongly about this for a number of reasons.

Uh nobody values each of you more than I do. And that goes for the people I served with for over 21 years.

I did 14 years as a councilman for a district and uh did some good things. I was a liaison to the minority business council and uh you know human rights commission and you know you know did some we we did some good stuff over those years. you know, we grew as a city.

But, you know, there's a thing, there's a metaphor I use often. It's about cliff diving. And you got to know when to time the jump.

And if you time the jump wrong, you know, bad things happen. You time it right, good things happen.

And I think right at this point when we just had a full day conversation about cutting expenses, you know, but the the public, you know, Stacy was talking about, you know, the families that are out there and talking about giving oursel a part-time salary of a a salary equivalent to what a new fireman or policeman or you know, school teacher make. you know, we got to live, too.

And I often get uh asked what it's like being mayor of the largest city in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

You know, hey, listen, I'm just one of you. This is a mayor week form of government, but the mayor has the gavl and the mayor's got some other responsibilities.

And I say it's a Clint Eastwood movie.

It's the good, the bad, and the ugly.

But let me tell you, my friends, it's mostly good in this city. But we have gone through our uh share of tragedy and triumph and challenges and we've done it together.

And you know, and this is a story I never ever wanted to bring up, but it's true. What is it like being the mayor of the largest city in the Commonwealth?

And you know, when I was first blessed to become mayor in 2018, I had a very lucrative physical therapy gig going on. I was making a ton of money.

I was a full-time physical therapist.

And yes, I was also a full-time mayor then. And to be honest with you, a part-time husband.

Okay? There's got to be some sacrifice in there. We all, you know, know that.

And when COVID hit, the mayor's role changed significantly.

I had to go into full-time plus. The city was in crisis. We were all in crisis. Number of us in this table were in crisis together.

and I had to give up a very lucrative physical therapy practice and go on social security.

There were times during that time that I had less than $5 in the bank.

It was a challenge, don't get me wrong, but we got through it and we got through it together. I can't think of another city in this nation that came through the co challenge better than the city of Virginia Beach did at that time because it was all hands on deck. We were unified in vision and got going.

And you know when it comes to salary and I think uh it's you know it's kind of you know what Josh said a little bit you know those you know my history I kind of dropped out of high school in 1968 went in the Marine Corps and at the time believe it or not I was making $92 a month but I knew exactly what I was going to be making and I was

sending $40 a month of that back to my mom. You know, we lost my dad five years before.

I knew what I was going to be making.

And when I took this job, I know what I was going to be making. I think when I first got on, we were making $16,000, $18,000.

And there was, you know, a increment there.

And then, you know, when I first got on council, I was the only veteran around.

And I I was really involved with the Brock uh Lewis Jones at the time includes me in the you know the Brack situation and you know there were challenging times along the way but the point is you know if in fact we move in that direction you know I cannot not as long as I'm mayor and I I am on my final radio rodeo folks I I cannot in conscience take a pay raise

for myself because I knew what it was when I took the job.

And the thing is being on council and I think everyone at this table, you know, the chemistry that we have now is amazing and somewhat unique to, you know, a lot of, you know, previous councils.

This is a labor of love.

And you know the thing is that once again you know as we're in a significant time you know the post uh co inflation the cost of government going up and everything.

I'm scared to death of the optic of this right now. So let me go back to the cliff diving metaphors as I you know end the conversation.

You know, there will be a time as we look forward and if we implement a lot of these plans going forward and the things improve, inflation goes down and we get a robust economic development things that we talked about, maybe sometime in the future, this might be, you know, a worthy conversation.

But right now, um, you know, like I said, you know, we are part- timerrs whether we like it or not. We make our own schedules. We do our times. We go to the events. You know, I have to turn down a lot of events I go. I think they calculated since I've been on city council, I've done over more than 2,000 ribbon cutings, just ribbon cutings alone.

Okay? We're all there. We are all together.

Okay? But but you know, right now um I tell you what, I think we got to focus on the things, you know, at hand.

And uh but once again, I'm not saying that we shouldn't have this conversation in the future during a better economic time.

And uh you know, if we're going to give pay raises, let's do it like we did to the police, fire, our employees, the people that really need it. And I tell you what, we all, you know, to a degree have other sources of income. You know, thank God I was able to get a part-time teaching gig with uh Regent and that gave me a quality of life that it made things a little easier. But being a

mayor, but also be on the council with you folks is such a privilege. I can't thank you enough for what we do. Okay.

Anybody else?

Okay.

So, Mr. Mayor, members of council, um, not getting any direction. Just just we had a conversation and could we put this on the back burner for now?

Yes, sir.

Oh, yeah.

No, I don't want to put it on the back burner. I want it to be looked at. We just had I just counted we had like eight of us that are in the range of maybe doing this. So, I would like for it to move forward.

And Mr. Mayor um council member Hutcherson look forward in terms of report what the amounts look like across the state what uh what other boards make. Um there's been some good points and I understand I understand what everybody's saying but if you look at it I think we had some very clear uh discussion on folks that would like to have it. I understand a whole wholeheartedly mayor

what you've gone through. I certainly get it. I started in the fire department at 16,000 something. So, I got that t-shirt. But the but the bottom line is is that more folks could try if they didn't have to work three jobs. It's not about the dedication. It's about what's fair. So, that's that's why I know I I do not want this put on the back burner.

Well, I tell you what, if you want to go ahead and do some preliminary uh work that you know that that at least will be used in the future, but under no circumstances will I accept the pay raise. I know what I was getting into.

Yes, sir.

That's part of the deal.

And I fully support that, mayor. That's not I'm the same way.

Yeah.

That so we're in the same same boat there. But that doesn't mean that the other folks that have spoken that are saying that they do need it and that it would be helpful does not mean they don't have a right to have it looked at and voted on and have a public Miss Henley is always asking for more public input. I welcome it.

Yeah, Josh. Mr. Mayor, I think that's a good idea. Maybe we have a hearing and maybe we get that number, the 46,000.

And if I mean, if there's three people that support putting it on an agenda, we can vote for it or vote against it. And I agree with you. I I I don't I don't want the salary increase and certainly don't work for it. But, um, I mean, I I I think it's fair game to say if you're if you run next year or, you know, just whoever whoever comes

next. Yeah, I let me put it this way, you know, if you know, folks want it uh you know, to put it through for uh you know, some type of discussion and everything. But, you know, but once again, I'm pretty strong that this is the wrong time to be doing it. And if we're going to be paying our part-time counsel the equivalent of a brand new fireman that risk his life, I got a

problem with that. Hutch, I don't, sir, because I was one. So, so, uh, well, you're a councilman now and you know what the pay was took the job.

But I also say that we have a little bit more knowledge than a firefighter or police officer that's riding backwards or is just learning the job.

We are, you know, whether we say it's 2 point some billion or 1.4 or whatever is, we are setting the direction for our city and that's what we're doing. And so, I don't see that as an equivalent. I understand what you're saying that it's it's it's a lot of money, but if we just showed that if it did the inflation bit, it would be almost identical to what it is, which is probably why the state

picked that number if we looked at it.

Um, so I get it. You feel strongly that way. I feel just as strongly the other way with the same pretty much argument back the other direction is is that we're not it's it's like saying it's like saying um when's the best time for rain? When's the best time to get pregnant? You know, there's there is there is there ever a good time as far as to to do money or to not do money? Um

when when are we going to have an excess amount of money? Because there's always a road. There's always a rec center.

There's there's always something a sidewalk, a VB trail. We will never have we will never have that perfect time to do that. Um I don't take it lightly. I grew up being fiscally responsible in the fire department. Um it was the way we were taught. It's the way I am.

I've never bought a new car for myself.

Sorry, Stace. So your car still but I but I do have my wife's car is some priority. So but my point is is that I understand fully where you're saying. I'm trying to say look at the folks that are not in our boat now that that we should we should make the boat big enough for everybody to have a try.

And we have folks on our council now and we've had them in the recent past that couldn't afford to stay on council and they were trying to do their civic duty.

So I hear you sir fully. I just I tell you what, you know, let me put it this way. The discussion is on the table. I have no problem uh getting some background stuff on it, but uh you know, I'm pretty firm in my com uh you know, conviction. when I went in the Marine Corps, I knew exactly what I was going to make and I knew exactly what I was

going to make when I made corporal uh you know, things of that nature. And uh but once again, you know, you know, almost doubling our uh salary in this economy to me is not not in anybody's best interest. But at this point, let's just go ahead and direct Patrick to get some background on it. Okay, Mr. Mayor, just for one sake of clarity, background is a report or is council looking for something different than a

report?

Well, I think you I think maybe we get the figures first and find out uh like practices of other cities and then we have a further discussion on it.

Is that fair enough?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Yes. And I'm just saying this is why I brought this up. This is a conversation all around and this is as you always say we have to face reality of what's going on now today. So thank you.

Thank you. Okay, let's move on.

The um I'll let you decide and let's just go alphabetically. Let's go council p uh policies.

Council policies. So this is are there council poly policies about how you all operate that you wanted to reopen?

Any anybody uh brought brought this up or anything?

Yeah. Let me just say you know the one thing about uh council council policies you know over you know my tenure as mayor uh there have been always we've done things differently throughout the years or 21 years. Um, you know, the one thing I really wanted to do that we haven't done was to have the C council discussions uh included into what's going to give not only you know for my information but

for you to actually communicate about amongst yourself you know when you had an initiative when you did something good when there was a good event going on in the city and you know the thing is I think that really you know gets us together because we are a part-time body and but once again to figure out what we're doing what we're when you know Michael has an event at towns at Mount

Trash Mart uh Josh has an any one of us this is what's good there are people out there doing good but then you know once again we had some council people that wanted policies written in stone but I'll tell you let me give you an example you what's a what's a commonality with short-term rentals nothing. Okay, everyone is unique.

Everyone is different. And if you have a policy in stone, it's not going to be good. But once again, when you have a collaborative council can talk it through about the merits of an application and, you know, things like that. We have modified. Hey, but listen, I've always been open and so has Rosemary, you know, to ideas from you.

If if we can make a mouse drop better, what can we do? Worth.

Thank you, Mayor. I just want to make a comment because I do like the council discussions every Tuesday that is a public meeting because we are not allowed to meet more than two of us at any particular time. If it's more than two, then it's a public meeting and meeting. And so I just quick question for a city manager or or city attorney.

The the law or ordinance for no more than two members of council meeting uh in a private setting, is that a state law or is that council policy? I'm okay with it. So that's state law. Okay. So that's why I like council discussions because we can talk about things in an open public setting and not have anything set in stone.

Okay. Barbara, do we have a book of council policies?

We used to, but it was sort of up to each of us to keep it up to date and I'm afraid I haven't. Do we have an upto-date or could we get an upto-date listing of what the policies are at this point? And so we'll all know I I know Patrick first and then Michael Mr. Mayor the city clerk um is going to respond.

City clerk.

Um I believe it was probably 20 January 24 is when the uh a new policy book was sent out. And we do provide policy updates when you've adopted them in your Friday packages three hole punch. So you can add to your policy book. But we can compile um an updated policy book for you, Miss Henley, if you'd like. We also have it available online.

Okay, Miss Mayor, one more. Thank you.

Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Does council want us to because some council members, I don't know if does everybody have the Yes. So, as new council members are elected, when we sit down in December with them, uh they received a a council policy book that was up to date.

Okay. Michael, please. Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, mayor. Um um my comment is about the council about the council comments and I would just like to make a suggestion since it's on the it's on the table.

Um one of the things that I've noticed and I think it's very good and I didn't know that it wasn't something that always happened at council and I applaud you and commend you for incorporating that into the discourse because I think it's enriched our ability to serve uh the community by having those discussions. My only suggestion would be um that if sometimes and I'm not always

the most concise speaker. I'm willing to fully acknowledge that. But sometimes during the course of council comments, one council member will take 20 minutes on a topic and that leaves no time for the other council members. So I'm wondering, mayor, if you might consider a time limit, three minutes to start. we can always revisit, but it it's kind of challenging if you have something

important and someone else happens to raise their hand before you and then speaks for 15 minutes on a topic. Um, and then you may have something equally or more important and it's rushed. And and I know it's challenging to to chair a meeting and meet all those needs and strike that balance. And I'm not being critical of of your role in doing that in any way, but I think we need to be

more thoughtful about the needs so that there are 11 people around the table and it's not a time for one person to monopolize that moment in time.

No, I appreciate that. And uh I'm the one that gets the lovely text from Patrick from time to time. Uh we have to get into close. Move it. Okay.

Uh I tell you what, why don't we try to keep the you know thing around 3 minutes and then if not I can give you like a a morning a warning can you wrap it up or you know like we do when we have a threeminut speaker at the meeting if somebody asks a question uh you know that gives him additional time would that be acceptable?

Okay, you can borrow this. Ah, there we go.

And this has been a good retreat because Patrick hasn't sent me a text yet. So, that's a good All right. Anything else on council policies?

All right. Legislative package. This is yours, Rosemary. Oh, I might need more than three minutes.

I have a list.

We'll grant you a dispensation.

All right. Thank you. Um, first thing I want to talk about is the blue line. We spent a lot of time talking about the ITA yesterday and and I think there's a big concern. This camel's nose under the tent, that sort of thing. And there's real worry about the blue line. And the blue line is really the most important line because it's demarcation between the rest of the city and our city

services of water and sewer. And that's where the you know the farmland is and all of that. And I I think the folks down there would like especially with talk about what we're might want to do with the ITA is to have a much stronger sense from us that we are going to honor that blue line that we are not going to be taking development beyond that blue line. And I'd like to and I've I've

talked to um the delegate down there. Um if we could have in our legislative package special legislation that would take a supermajority to change the zoning below the blue line. Um anyway, the delegate said he would be happy to carry that. So I think that this would show a real commitment to the ad community and that sort of thing and give them a real comfort that there's no intention of developing below

that blue line. So that's one thing you want to talk about each thing or do you want to move bring up bring out my whole list?

Again, it goes back to trust. It's something that can always be changed. So I don't know that it really makes that much difference. Uh but if if it would make anybody feel better, but it could always be changed by the next council.

So well or I mean we've seen how easily the green line got broached and the blue line would do the same thing.

Well in all respect that's why I'm not saying that we do this. I'm asking for the general assembly to do this. Well, they would just require a supermajority of counsel if Well, I don't know since since I'm just hearing about this for the first time. You're right. I do have to think. But this is again something that I think the public needs to talk about.

Um, but you're right that if we just said it has to be a supermajority, the next council could come along and change that. But if we got the general assembly to do it with special legislation, that's going to be really putting the brakes on. codify it and codify it and much much harder to do if it's special legislation from the general assembly. So that's why I'd like to recommend that.

Next next thing um the aquarium which we haven't really talked much about the last two days. Um I think we all agree we we love the aquarium. We love what they do and when they do the stranding, unfortunately, the city of Virginia Beach is footing the bill for the entire state.

Uh, which I don't think it's our job to be paying for a whale up on the Eastern Shore to be necropsied.

So, I'd like to see if we could put something together. And Patrick said he was working on these figures of how much it's costing us to be the stranding team for the entire state of Virginia. And I I know we're happy to do it. We like doing it, but it's should not be our financial responsibility to take care of the rest of the state beyond our own borders. So, if we can figure out what

it's costing us and ask the general assembly to pay their share of of that bill, Michael. Uh well, thank you, Vice Mayor, and I support that completely. But I think it's beyond actually just the Eastern Shore in Virginia. The stranding I think program extends into North Carolina and Maryland as well. And so in effect the people of Virginia Beach are paying for marine research in across the

mid-Atlantic. And it is a valuable and a very very important um element. That my timer went fast.

See how quick we can do a policy.

um the it's a very important function and it's a it's something that that is uh marine research is is vital in many in so many different ways. I think what what you're suggesting though is that we have a kind of a we revisit how that's funded because in many other communities it's a university.

Um and and you have to ask yourself how many whale and turtle necropsies as the Virginia Beach residential taxpayer responsible for funding and that's something and I would also be curious if any other municipalities fund that type of academic and environmental research.

It's very important. It's something the taxpayers in Virginia Beach though are are on have been funding in addition to the foundation um for the entire Mid-Atlantic.

Well, that's why it's good to be talking about these things early so we can get this information before because our package is going to be coming up fairly soon. But anyway, it's it's not really fair for our taxpayers to be footing the bill. And then we we talked about ebikes and I understand that there's a committee uh that's working on this and I'd be really interested in what their

recommendations are coming up, but the ebikes are terribly, terribly dangerous.

Um so work on that. And then the last one I wanted to mention was something for you, Mr. Mayor, with your mayor's committee.

If y'all can put together a package for extra police powers, uh I've been told coming from you, from all of you, it would be really awesome to get through the general assembly. So maybe you might want to speak to that.

Yeah. uh you know once again a couple years ago after the uh tragic uh dare I say murder of George Floyd there was a big effort to defund the police and change some of the laws and we wound up uh removing some of the tools that law enforcement uses you know you know for safety and you look around the country right now and you know right now and I think there's a callous disregard for

law right now uh in some areas and in terms of not prosecuting and things of that nature and it puts neighborhoods at risk. Fortunately, we have a magnificent when we're called when when there were calls for us to defund the police, we def we funded them and we made sure that they got the equipment they needed and uh you you know you and at that time our police department was demoralized.

uh you know as many people right now every municipality in this great nation is struggling to find police officers.

Uh but once again I think uh we need the u tools to do that. Um and that what was it the Patrick what was it uh the term sovereign immunity to make sure that they have that to you know you know keep that going. Um but once again uh you know uh myself and Mayor Gray from Hampton are recon uh uh reconvening the mayors and chairs of the 757 and what we're thinking about doing is

approaching the general assembly to you know just make sure our hey listen we don't want to violate anybody's you know civil rights and everything but we we have to ensure a safe community and our police has been remarkable at getting weapons off the street and things of that nature, but but once again, we have to, you know, we we have to protect our folks. So, we're going to be go ahead

and do that. Yeah. Worth just an request for additional legislative package request. I think we did it last year, maybe previous years, the lottery uh proceeds for school construction. I don't know where that if that has happened before. that's it gets killed or something, but we want more money for school construction. If we could put that in our package, that would be my request.

Okay, Stacy and Barbara.

Thank you. I I just want to highlight more of this ebike situation. Uh I brought this up back I think in March or April and you know, we were told by the city attorney that ebikes the regulations on ebikes are the same as they are for bicycles. So, as long as you're on an ebike and if you're uh over 14 years of age, you can take them anywhere and do anything you want. If

you're under 14, you have to wear a helmet, then you can take them anywhere and do anything you want. And some of these ebikes are getting up pretty good speeds. And the thought of having I mean literally a six or sevenyear-old on a bicycle doing 25 miles an hour out on the public road or worse yet on a a trail in a neighborhood or worse yet on the boardwalk at the oceanfront. It it's

just unsettling and it's really come to light this summer because the the proliferation of these ebikes has just exploded and they're everywhere. Uh I've heard constantly that people are being um they're afraid to walk on these paths.

They're afraid to walk on the boardwalk because these ebikes don't stay where they're supposed to be. they're going at a very high rate of speed and they have very young children uh working them. So, it's a serious issue and it's something that really needs to be uh looked at not just at the oceanfront but through all of our neighborhoods and I would think throughout the state. I mean, it's it's

really gotten to the point to where it it's a major issue.

And thank Yeah, I concur Michael and then Barbara then Michael if you don't mind. Uh a couple of weeks ago I talked about the Backbay marsh restoration project and the fact that we are not able to get a permit uh to be able to uh restore those marshes and help slow the water down uh because uh when the state in looking at the permit uh reviewed the area they found some SAV and because SAV

is protected we can't do the marsh restoration. So the suggestion that we got from staff was that we ask the general assembly to carve out this particular project uh as an exception uh so that we can get the permit and can do the marsh restoration. Um so we would need to have that in the legislative package uh if uh if that's acceptable.

I think that would be a good idea. The other thing I was just wondering about, have we had any indication uh from the federal level uh from some of the funding cuts if we've gotten any less money that they're expecting the locality to make up. I I'm thinking particularly in the human services area, some of these things that are cut like uh food stamps and so forth that if they're federal cuts that they're going

to be expecting the state and the local to make up the difference. Do we have any indication of any of that yet?

Patrick, Ken, can you see if Eileen can come up and speak on this matter? Alen, the question is, is there any indication so far of any um imminent cuts to um human services funding? We do know council that there's some Medicaid changes that are coming in the future, but those won't come into effect until sometime after November 2026, you know. But so go ahead, Eileen.

So what we do know is that there will be additional administrative type of funding that comes our way to pay. We already pay an administrative fee for SNAP supplemental nutrition program.

We are expecting a potential of another three million. That could be our responsibility. So we're watching this very closely.

The other factor with SNAP is the error rate and what might come down through the state to the localities. Right now we are expected to be below 0% error rate on 55,000 applications approximately.

that is extremely difficult just due to the fact that you have to rely on what the citizen is telling you as well as many many different factors in that application. So that's a work in progress. We have a lot of training going on. Each staff member is taking 12 additional modules of training right now and in order to do that we are paying overtime because they have to continue to process applications. So, our staff

are being tasked with a extremely heavy lift and we're doing what we can to support them. I'm on national as well as state meetings looking at all of this.

So, the factor I know right now is the administrative fee will go up for each locality. The error rate is where we're in a zone that we're not exactly sure.

On the other side, the behavioral health side, the additional work requirements of 80 hours per month for each person who is in that expansion zone, of which we have about 20,000 clients in the city who are expansion clients under Medicaid.

they potentially uh may lose their Medicaid if they do not comply with that 80hour work requirement, volunteerism or training.

And so we're going to watch that because that could affect our billing on the behavioral health side. And we are the public agency, so these citizens do need these services. So then what would happen is we would assess them for a self-pay factor which could be at 0% if they're unable to pay but we would still be serving these citizens.

it it's worrisome that um there going to be some things and I think that's what's maybe driving part of this is they want the state and the local to pick up some of these services but with our situation as we talked about yesterday we don't really have the money to do it either so I think this is going to be something we need to watch very closely if you would just keep us

apprised of what it looks like and what we might have to talk about and see if there's anything we can do or not.

Okay, Patrick, Mr. Mayor, members of council, council member Henley, to your point, it's not just human services, it's also the same thing with emergency management, EMS, right? Especially EMS has similar issues with the Medicaid that human services has. But when you look at emergency management, the fire department, the where things are going and nothing is pouring concrete or nothing is certain yet

is that it looks like with the changes that are being proposed to FEMA would be more responsibility, would be passed down to state and local governments, right? You know, and we get a tremendous amount of funding from FEMA. It pays for a lot of our training.

It pays for a lot of our equipment, a lot of our support, right? that hole will have to be plugged somewhere else.

But it looks like right now the expectation will be for local governments to bear more of their own um costs associated with those things. So it is one of the things that the the staff and department heads highlighted as part of the challenges that we foresee in the next two years is dealing with the uncertainty as it relates to the federal funding that we traditionally have been able to rely on.

Well, thankfully I don't I think Virginia Beach has not had a a tremendous amount of federal funding, but we certainly have had some. And any of it that we're going to lose and we are expected to make up, it's probably going to be in areas that are very important, such as the FEMA training that we've been really be able to take advantage of so much, but we we really have to have it. So if that's something

that we're going to have to pick up, that's going to cut into these other things that we want to do as well. So I think we need to really be a breast of this as we go along and not just wait until March and suddenly find out that we've got to do these things. So if you could keep us a breast, I think it would be helpful.

You know, and just to add more joy to the conversation, both Social Security and Medicare are destined for f uh fiscal insolveny in about eight years, you know, according to projections right now, you know, so uh challenging times ahead. Okay. Anything?

Uh you know, Hutch and then uh Josh.

Michael, are you done?

Did you withdraw?

Okay.

Okay. Sorry about that, Michael.

Um first I just want to uh talk to the ebikes uh real quick. is that um you know I've stated a few times about being a cyclist and you you know you want to respect the laws and take care of everybody. The only thing I would caution against though is is that we don't want the pendulum to swing to nothing for ebikes because there is a large part of the population that

wouldn't get to enjoy riding if they didn't have some assistance. So I'm not sure exactly how to craft that. I'm I'm 100% with y'all on the dangers of it.

I've been down on the boardwalk riding and stuff and seen it. Um I know we've got the deputy over there from PD and uh we've said already it's another thing, you know, to put on them, but um it it could just simply be for us an enforcement issue. And they do a lot of that as well. You know, I know they do, but um I I just like I said, there's

different. It's almost like back when we were growing up, mopeds, right, versus a bicycle. They've moved back into some of them have moved back into that like moped level. I know we geo fenced the uh the scooters, you know, is there a way to cut the speed down to where they have a maximum a maximum miles per hour or something like that? Because some of the bikes are just like almost pedal assist

if you will, you know. So that but they still have a teeny motor in it and if we do all motor, you know, I'm just saying we got to be we got to be careful about that. Patrick, you want to speak on this before I go to my next one? Um, yeah, Mr. Mayor, council member Hutcherson, members of council. So, council discussed this a couple weeks ago or maybe last week. So, I think the resort

management office, CVB, communications, and the police department, they got a group together and they're trying to figure out how best to tackle this. A lot of it is, as Mr. um, Cummings said, they're allowed to be treated the same way that pedal bicycles are, you know.

So the question goes, it's like they should be following the same rules on the boardwalk in particular as the bicycles. So we're trying to work on an education as well as additional enforcement campaign to kind of help steer people in the right direction on how best to handle ebikes. But I do we do hear you and if council whenever you all wrap up on the legislative package item if this is something that you would

like for us to investigate ways that we can get more right sizing of regulations as part of legislative package we'll work on that as well.

I think that would be proven.

So the uh next one is one that we kind of already hit on and I'm more asking and this might be for the city attorney.

Um is the the three council member or two council member rule with three and I understand the state delegates it only applies to councils. Is that across the state? Is that you know how does that work?

The sunshine law. Yeah.

Uh I'm not sure what we call it.

Is that the sunshine?

Yes.

Yeah. The um the limitation on the number of council members who may be together and discussing city business is a part of the freedom of information act. Uh it applies to all public bodies with the exception of the general assembly. So uh it applies to boards of supervisors and counties. It applies to uh members of authorities like Sipsa for example. It has general application to everyone with the exception of the

general assembly who coincidentally also make those rules.

So then so then just to just to be clear then for us if if Stacy Worth and myself are talking about cars or boats or bicycles, we can do that all day long. We just can't talk about business of the council.

Can't talk about business of the city.

Yes. Of right. I'm sorry. You have responsibility.

Yes. Because what ends up happening though is a lot of times is everybody it's almost like u I don't know what's that Yeah. Yeah. It becomes Yeah. Yeah.

It's called the daisy chain.

It's a P. Well, I'm more talking about just even when you're having a general conversation that you everybody gets nervous that you're breaking some rule and we're not. You know, that's what I guess that's what bugs me. But I guess that's just education on our part. So, I don't think there's anything I can do with that.

Yeah. But no, correct me if I'm wrong.

If you're talking to a council person one on one, but it's really when there's only three involved in the conversation, is it a considered a minor meeting? Is that correct?

Right. It's where three or more members of the body are present together and discussing city business, but like you know, when we're in the hallway getting ready for the meeting, you know, somebody will say, "Oh, we can't really be standing here talking."

It's like, okay, you know, have a good day. you know, if you're talking about how the uh you know, the New York Giants are going to do next year, uh you know, that's one thing, but I think if you're if you're talking about a project that hey, can you get behind uh you know, this thing uh resolution that I'm doing, that's a different story.

That is correct, Mr. Mayor.

Okay. Hey, Josh.

Um yes, Mr. Mayor, we uh tried this, I think, two maybe three years. um the declining cigarette tax revenue uh over the years and we've tried a couple of times to ask a general we're going to bring Joe Camel back.

No, no, not cool either. Um but uh the uh cool with the K, but just the vape tax. Um and and uh I I think the last answer I remember hearing was that there it was too tough because this we didn't have a mechanism to either measure the liquid or collect the tax which I kind of find silly because the state does.

So Mr. Mayor, members of council, council member um Schulman, Brent will come and kind of explain a little bit more of the nuance associated with the issues with the vape tax.

Good morning everybody. Uh yeah, Councilman Schman, you know, we've looked into this the last couple years and we've had proposals in the general assembly. The challenge just comes into the complexity and the cost of implementing it. So the way they do the cigarette tax, there were these stamps and they put it on the package of cigarettes, but packages of cigarettes come in pretty much universal sizes.

This um the vaping cartridges and the vaping mechanisms don't. And so the ability to do the same sort of system with stamps just doesn't work. And so you have to come up with another administrative system. And then the um the revenue stream itself is not particularly um not particularly large.

So once you get through the administrative cost of it, a lot of people just didn't think it was worth the, you know, the juice is worth the squeeze or think is the saying, right?

Uh um and so that that's where the complexity has come in and we haven't figured out a manner in which to be able to do it in a way that would would make it u administratively positive, but the state does it right.

So the state does it in a manner in which uh at the wholesale level. So, if you own 10 of these stores in 10 different cities, you buy your uh your inventory, you pay the tax to the state on that inventory. What we're looking for is at the local level. So, then they would take that inventory, they distribute it to their 10 stores, and they would sell it individually. And so,

you'd have to find figure out a way for the locality and for the the local level to track that. And like I said, the way they do it with cigarettes, they do it through these stamps. And it just won't work. Um, I'm not saying it's impossible. What I'm trying to get or what I would recommend that we push for is for the state to get the state tax folks and local governments and the

tobacco industry. We would have to include them as well. Get them together and figure out how to do this because I just haven't been able to figure it out.

The people I've talked to haven't been able to figure it out yet. I know it sounds silly that it's this complex, but I genuinely it's this complex. And so they're going to have to put the people who um do this work every day, put them to the task of doing this. And so that would be if this is something we want to push forward, I think that's the next incremental step that we should look for

is trying to get I mean we all hate when they do these studies, but in this case, this thing isn't going to happen without some sort of study on the topic.

That would be nice. And if the tobacco companies are involved, I'm sure they don't have any lobbyists at all.

Any anybody else at this point?

Rosemary, don't go anywhere.

So, last year we had the legislative package about the sprayed lines, especially down at the resort. The utility companies put down that marup pavers and all the beautiful work that we've done and I know it was pulled and people were supposed to get together with the utilities folks. Did anything happen?

Yes. So, I've been uh having some discussions with some of our friends at the utilities uh Virginia Natural Gas, Dominion, Verizon, the likes. Um nobody is particularly a fan of the idea of moving to a more solvable paint, right? Um there are some a lot of safety concerns, a lot of concerns about how long a lot of these construction projects take and how many times they'd have to go out and restripe. Uh but the

some of the recommendations that have come out of those conversations is moving to what they call a um spot marking. So rather than making you know giant lines that kind of spot it in certain places. So um that may be some sort of compromise. Um like I said I've talked to a lot of the utilities. I've talked to our friends at 811 who helped govern some of this. Um the topic is a little more complicated

also in that the state code um basically requires us to follow the federal regulations on this front. So there's kind of a lot of interconnectivity and the different places you'd have to kind of unwind to to mandate this, you know, a different type of paint being used. Um so I think this spot marking may be a direction for us to go. um still exploring if that would require state

legislation or may might be something we could do at the local level. Uh but I don't have that answer uh yet.

So Michael, oh I'm sorry.

So would you recommend that we keep working with these folks or you think we should put something in our legislative package?

I think we should just keep working with these folks. I think it's something that if if we're comfortable moving in this spot marking direction, I think it's something we I'm hoping it's something we can do at the local level and wouldn't require state legislation. But I am still exploring if that would be required or not.

I guess you can let them know that we're still interested.

Yes. And I think they are aware. I mean, I've had conversations with them and um you know, they they bring it up as well.

I think they're kind of concerned of where this may go. So, thank you, Michael. Well, and thank you for bringing that up. Respectfully, um I'm not sure they do take it seriously enough. you're the one in the conver has been interfacing with them most directly about this, but I've had conversations too. And I think the impact of including it in their legislative agenda, whether I'm advocating for that or not, I'm not

necessarily advocating to it, continue to include it, but that definitely got their attention and that is good. So the fact if we include it or don't include it, it they began to be responsive to this concern which I have been raising for many years only when we included it in our legislative agenda. So imagine a scenario where Rudy Luke Park is developed and then the next thing you know next month

it looks like a Jackson Pollock painting.

It could happen easily.

Yes.

Yeah. and and I don't think they take it seriously because if they did, they would help us clean it up. They would circle back. And so um I I don't know. I think it needs more work. And if you think they're taking it seriously, I'll take your word for it.

But I'll say the uh the response from when the vice mayor and you brought this up at a legislative agenda um uh uh presentation that I gave last year and you guys brought this up. I got like 10 phone calls the next day from my friends in the lobbying community who represent all these organizations. So I mean you definitely woke some folks up to it and I think they're they're concerned and

they share they understand the concern.

their um you know their perspective is more from their from safety and from the time cons how timeconuming it can be to do these markings and um how long these projects take you know these are the arguments they're giving me and I don't think that they're um you know I don't want those to fall on deaf ears either right we need to to balance all of the all of those concerns but they're

listening to us and they're the ones who have kind of brought this spot marking thing to to my attention it's not something that you know I don't live in this world. It's not something I'm a an expert on, but um you've definitely got their attention.

And stay up there, Brett.

So, can I ask this? Those lobbyists that called you the next day, they were defending what their clients were doing or or they say they want to work with us or Yeah. to a person, they all say they wanted to work with us. You know, they all um I think recognize the concern. I think they believe like like in most cases uh you my deputy Andrew Damon always says that there's not usually

solutions that there's always these trade-offs, right? And and here they just believe that the um the safety concerns outweigh the concerns of the markings and and the beach community.

And I understand that they may be over overstating the safety concerns, but you know u that's that's the perspective that they are giving. And when we go to the legislature and I can make their arguments for us, no problem. But when the other side starts making concerns about safety and gas pipe uh gas lines and you know, I'm not sure the legislature is going to fall on our side

on that argument. So um you know, we'll make the best argument we can on this front, but I think we're pushing them in the proper way and that hopefully we can find a balance that will work for all of us.

Yeah. Ju just one more because this is really important. We're getting ready to have this Atlantic Avenue task force.

We're getting ready to go down the street like in two days and start spending millions of dollars of taxpayers money on this. And if it does look like a Jackson Bollock painting, then we, you know, need to re look at this.

Yes.

Thanks. Not to get this is really important into it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Patrick, Mr. Mayor, members of council, there's a this is a very sadly it's a very complex issue cuz the other frustrating thing about it is that we don't have any real power over the utilities because the to Brent's point a lot of times we try to get them to do this stuff within 30 60 90 days but what happens is they'll pull a permit sometimes they don't pull a permit then they'll mark these things

and they won't show up for a year right you know and and it's there and it's like, you know, some subcontractor subcontractor subcontractor has this marked and they're eventually going to get there. We don't know when, you know, and and whenever we find out they close out, then our staff and the planning department spends a tremendous amount of effort trying to track them down and RMO

needs to get that clarity before they can actually spray um power wash it off.

And depending on how long it's been there, it's becomes next to impossible for the power washes to go without adversely impacting the building material on the road. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. If you could stay up there, let me close out the legislative package thing uh you know with uh an observation.

You know, I work with uh all the mayors in a 757, you know, both parties, okay?

And we all have a frustration with the folks in Richmond in the general assembly. And I can tell you being on the Hampton Roads Planning Commission and

Mine's not working. Okay, there we go.

There we go. Equipment malfunction.

Uh but yeah, but but once again, you know, the thing is a lot of there's a lot of frustration with the cities that we send in these packages and they're just uh they're just blown off for the most part. U as a matter of fact, as an example, we use we had a 101 uh voting system put on us and we found out about it after the law was passed. Five cities

during that same voting sess session found out that their voting date was moved to May to November without any consultation you know with them. So I think the thing is that you know we should really more proactively you know engage with our local delegation and I I tell you what even if we meet with them quarterly and everything I think that's going to be you know important going forward you know that

they hear from us directly not just get a package of a wish list with about 30 things in it and looking for sponsors and things of that nature. Sometimes, don't we have trouble finding sponsors?

Um, it depends on the issue. I mean, I will say this uh utility marking issue is a perfect example. When I pitched that to our legislators last year, there wasn't a whole lot of interest in um picking that one up. But I be think other than that one, I haven't had um this is only my third legislative package. So, my first year, we got everything uh we found a patron and got

everything introduced. Last year, we had everything except for this utility marking introduced. Um, so I I think the legislators want to partner with us, but I think they see it as a partnership and um that's a give and take as well.

Yeah. But I just think, you know, we got to build a better bridge. Okay. Okay.

Are we wrapped up on legislative package? Okay. Street naming. So Patrick, Mr. Mayor, just for the legislative package. So, the items that you have here, I'm assuming these are things that you would like for the city attorney's office and Brent and Andrew to kind of work on to bring in your draft for consideration.

Yep. Worth.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Just a couple more add-ons because uh STRs, Brent, uh do we want to go Kim? I know we got to move on, but um STRs, do we want to go back on that as well as rideway at the oceanfront that uh for the STRs? I mean, obviously we take the direction from the council. So, if you want us to uh re-engage on that issue, we'd be glad to do that. I think

the um the concept that we had last year was very sound. Some of the mechanics in the legislation and how uh the legislative lawyers draw drew it up and um legislative services in Richmond had some mechanical issues on it and so we weren't able to advance it because of that. Um hoping to get some of that ironed out. If that's a direction you guys want to go, you'll remember that

the idea was came out of the task force last year was to allow basically allow us to tell um I'll use Airbnb as an example because they're the biggest one, right? An Airbnb of VBO um that they have a listing on their site that was uh not licensed or isn't allowed to be offered as STR and to ask them to take it down and if they didn't take it down, they would be fined. um

that fine piece of it was the the most complex part of it and we really haven't found an answer to that. But um I think if we could just put in get legislation that says that they have to take it down fine or no fine, I think that would be a direction that I would recommend. Um and that came out of the STR task force as well. Um on the right of way

legislation, you may remember the general assembly took an incremental step last year in increasing the fine for um commercial activities. Um I think from the general assembly standpoint, that issue is they would consider it solved. There was a piece of that that allows um a merchant to um basically get like 30 days to cure it. So it doesn't exactly solve our issue, but it did increase the fine. So, I don't think

we're going to have a whole lot of um I don't think it's going to be received well to come back again on that one this year. That gave us a little piece. I think we should maybe take a year or so off on that one. Um but the STR thing I think would be a good idea to push forward.

Okay.

Okay. Uh I guess street naming. Michael, I think this was yours.

It was, mayor. Thank you. And I I hope it can be a very simple request. um in the course of this year, last several months, we've performed or in the or are in the process of performing um three honorary street naming in different parts of the city. And prior to that, as far as as my memory um serves, the only other time that uh has been performed was when in 2016, I believe, Virginia Beach Boulevard was

honorary named for Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

And um obviously that is a meritorious honor. I have no specific objection to any of the three individuals who are contemplated or have been um uh renamed.

However, I do think that there should be some criteria in place.

Um and I and I believe that this could get out of control and and it could get out of control in several ways. One, people could be left out. people who contribute tremendous amounts to the city could be left out um because they didn't know a council member or political reasons and also there is such a thing as sort of sign clutter um that that is a real thing sign pollution and

I think that we just need to have a process about that. some of the things that that I was thinking about and looked up. Um there should be some clear criteria for eligibility based on community impact, residency, connection.

Um we could even have a disc conversation about um whether a street should be named for a person who's living or a person who has contri who has contributed who's no longer living after a certain amount of time passes. I don't have an specific opinion on that, but it's a consideration.

um guidelines about whether to avoid and how to avoid so-called divisive figures or causes that could undermine city unity. Um community engagement, you know, have we consulted the neighborhoods where these uh renamings are meant to occur and heard from their from them about their opinion as well as the administrative process, the consistency around it, which is really what I'm talking about.

Um there's also different um ideas that people have about permit permanent on naming versus time limited naming. Um there's a lot of considerations here actually we have not contemplated as part of this process and I don't have strong feelings about it. I think each and every person as I mentioned before I can't emphasize enough is deserving but there's a lot of deserving people out

there and I I don't want to see people left out. I could think about people in district three that I serve that I would like to name roads for in an honorary fashion both living and non-living. Um and then but at the same time that's that could become a very complex landscape. So I think we need a framework and I think we need a process.

My simple request would be and I'm sorry to do this to you uh Mr. city manager, but maybe um maybe you know professional staff could research best practices, what happens in other cities and make some recommendations that we could contemplate for here. And and I want to say and I'll and I'll end with this.

Every every time there's a process, I can imagine a scenario where an exception could occur. So we always have the ability to turn on a dime to be responsive to an extraordinary circumstance, but having a having a metric and a set of guidelines so that every citizen, every contributing member of our community who does extraordinary things has a chance.

you know, a teacher is just as valuable as an as an entertainer and and we're not naming streets for people in the So, I think we need to be more inclusive and a process will provide that. Okay, Rosemary, I agree with Michael that we we need a process and a procedure and criteria and all those sort of things and I think it'd be really helpful if the staff could and sort of take our ideas and

politics out of it and what staff is looks at would be a a really great overview and what we've done is really nice and this is like Michael said nothing against anyone that's in the queue or ready to move forward and but this in the future because it could get out of hand. We could have somebody's name on every every street in the city and people might say, "Well, what street am I on?" So,

there's already a dire street right off Military Highway.

Well, you're taken care of then. We don't have to worry about you.

But I I I support I think that we really should have a process for this.

Yeah. Thank you. And yeah, let me just say this about that. I think there's two different thing. I think when you rename a street and then it creates havoc with the post office and everything and you know it affects people's letter heads and everything. But I'll tell you what, uh I know over my tenure uh we got a right by Tallwood High School, we have a street named after a slain police

officer. That's the actual name of the street. and out um you know uh in West Neck uh you know we named the street after uh you know two fallen police officers that's one thing but you know like we just did recently with Andrew Fine okay it's still Cyprus but it's you know it's it more like a a marker uh you know than a you know a street sign per

se uh but once again I think we do have to you know you know You know, once again, we can't, you know, you know, I I I really concur with what you're saying, but uh you know, it's really nice, but you know, once again, um, believe it or not, there was some opposition about the Martin Luther King marker on Virginia Beach Boulevard, but we went ahead and did it anyway

because that was the right thing to do.

But uh but once again, I think once again, if we just have a little thing, it just what you're trying to do is prevent a proliferation, mayor. Not only prevent proliferation, but provide consistency. And I'll put a finer point on it. There is a civic league that's requested an honorary naming for an individual, and I'm not going to get into specifics of that, but the council has not acted on that.

And so, when do we act and when do we don't act? there's a lack of consistency and that is uh problematic for the people we serve.

No, I I agree. So, let's go ahead and find the best practices and uh you know, let's uh you know, sharpen that up.

Patrick, Mr. Mayor, can I go back to legislative package um item? Mr. Remick brought up something to the council. Well, I think he probably sent the email to you all about the proliferation, the adverse proliferation, the impacts of noise related issues in um the resort districts and also in all the districts.

We get a lot from council member Schum and also from Mrs. Rouse. There was some legislation that made its way through the general assembly, but um didn't make it through the governor's office to allow for enhanced noise enforcement to including automated noise enforcement devices. Mr. Remmit mentioned that. Is that something that the council will be open for us to consider like how we did with the school zone?

Yeah, I think we should.

Okay. All right. So, um Brent, put that on the list as items to bring in a draft legislative package and general assembly passed something for those noise cameras last year, but it was vetoed because they saying that we already have the powers to do that.

But I know I talked to Mark Styles and you may want to comment that courts have trouble enforcing it.

Yeah, that's that is correct. Um I think it was just a pilot program last year for limited jurisdictions, wasn't it Dana?

Yes. So it was vetoed it was vetoed on two grounds. One is that the scope of the legislation only included two districts and so there was a concern about disperate treatment of traffic laws um in different pieces of the Commonwealth. And then the second piece was the one you noted which was there was a note that there was local authority to regulate noise. The concern we have is the explicit legislation for

each of the other uses of camera enforcement. And then secondarily that we've had some issues with process and our general district court um in the other camera enforcement. And so we would want the legislation to be very specific about what we can and can't do so that the courts know um when cases come to them what the rules are and how we're initiating process.

Okay. Okay.

And Mr. Mayor, I just wanted to highlight since Dr. Ross Hammond had to leave, she before she left had said transportation, flooding, and unfunded mandates as potential things for the legislative package.

Yes, definitely.

Okay. Is there anything anybody else would like to bring up? Okay, I think we're ready for a wrap up.

Yeah.

Anything you need clarity? Okay.

Um I uh we're wrapping up early and so I think that's something to celebrate. You did good work and you're all eager to get back to your other couple of jobs. I would just ask you to um you know share around the room how you're feeling, what what's the um what's the thing you want to share with your constituents about the conversation or progress that you've made uh yesterday. and today. So, if you

were going to wrap up with what you want to share with your constituents about the progress that you've made yesterday and today, what are you um looking forward to sharing with them?

Okay, let's uh you know, Cash and Josh are lonely over there. So, yeah Cash um I'm sorry. I just wanted to make sure I understood the question. What am I um going to communicate to my constituents based on um what we've talked about for the last two days?

Yeah, the food was great. I'm going to tell them about the food.

That's what we work for really.

See, that's how I get makes up the difference. Um I I will say that mayor, I will echo echo your point.

Having a a city council first and foremost where we can have conversation among each other is very important for the structure of our local government going forward. So I always say this to um my constituents that I work well with my council uh members and colleagues. I mean, that's important for us to disagree, but still have a uh constructive conversation is is by far what I would

say first was um obtained is that we still had a couple of disagreements, but we were able to still work through that and still have um a um peaceable conversation in the retreat. Number two, for topics, I think we talked about the 12 12 month and 24-month projection for the city of Virginia Beach.

I will say that um one of the takeaways that I would say for West Kempsville or Centerville would be um the area of youth sports. I I want to tell them that I brought that up, made that known. West Kimsville, which is not a part of the recreation center. I do want to thank you, Dr.

Kershman, your team. The lights were on.

That's a an inside thing where I called Dr. Kershman and the lights at New Light Park were not working and the kids were going to soon be um practicing football, tackle football in the dark. And so I thank thank you for that Dr. Kershman.

That's my comeback because I told you you were the best. So I think all in all I effectively I'll tell my constituents I effectively communicated about the rec center youth sports. I talked about transportation needs an overhaul. I do believe that waiting for an hour at the bus stop and they work at Newport News is unacceptable.

If I had many time uh if I had time and a bigger car, I would take them to work, but I have three jobs. Okay. So, um and then I would say about uh public safety, making sure that um deputy, you know, that we care about the police department and uh that's number one. Um, and and we really didn't go over public safety that much because I think we have

a a pro law council where we are big on our law enforcement. We love our law.

Uh, and I think our community knows that. So, I will continue to tell our residents that we support our police department, our fire department, our EMS, our um public workers, our uh 311, our 911.

Um, that's what I'll say. Thank you.

And I think you uh you were away yesterday when we uh brought forward that uh Centerville 2 is on quue to get get going.

Yes, sir.

Okay. Thank you.

That's a good thing.

Thank you, mayor. Um, you know, something I'd like to say is, uh, government can be slow, but time goes quick. So, and really time is the most precious commodity we have. And, and when we're all together, we got to make use of that time. Um, because it only happens once a week. And based on my last two and a half years, this was one of our better retreats. I would have to say probably one of the

best um because there was a lot of honest dialogue and respectful dialogue.

Um we got through pretty weighty issues.

Um I think we were really good at giving staff direction. Um I hope we were. Um but I mean, you know, I think when we go home to our constituents, they just want us they want to know that we're we're up here doing our jobs. And you know, I get to go back and tell them that we're laser focused on economic development and growing new jobs, attracting new businesses here and new

residents. Um, I get to tell them that we're focused and remain focused on housing um and affordability.

um they'll be happy to know that infrastructure remains a top priority for us and that we continue to prioritize flooding and um environmental stewardship and you know what I what I ran and I mean just kind of just my areas of interest it's you know a lot of times it's economy and growth on the one hand and environment on the other and a lot of times it can you know go like this.

And um I think we've got ways up here and we've been talking about ways amongst ourselves that that we can kind of make it a little bit more harmonious um and not quite so at odds with one another.

Thank you, Barbara.

Well, we have uh 10 districts that are fairly equal in population, but they're nowhere close in size of area.

District two is about half of the city as far as area is concerned and is extremely diverse. Uh we've got things from the very tip of Knots Island to very suburban areas uh all the way uh up to the the um northern part of the city.

And so my district forums are alwaysformational.

I try to because there's no way in the world I can get around to this whole area to all of the areas and let them know exactly what's going on. So my district forums which I have every month are informational and uh I try to let them know what's going on and so they can also uh know what's going on in other neighborhoods that are very close to them.

And so uh they're going to be very interested in the topics that we have talked about. Uh and of course it's all below the green line and all of the transition area and inter facility traffic area is in district two. So they're going to be very interested in your comments about the ITA and the fact that it didn't rate very high. Um, but the things that have come up that were totally unexpected that we still haven't

you haven't been able to hear from these people because we haven't had a public hearing on this topic. So, I'm going to just let them know. Uh I have now this listing of the topics and where they ranked and what we're going to be talking about and uh but um land use is extremely important to district 2 uh because um uh just a particular land use issue can totally change everything. And we have

to really recognize that with this area and uh this unexpected plan to have a large part of it become an industrial park uh is going to be very very troubling.

But that's what I'll be talking about.

Okay, Michael. Thank you. Um the people that I have the privilege of serving in district three and across the city of Virginia Beach are hardworking people. And when I speak with them, what they really want is to um work hard, have a government that's respon a city government that's responsive to their needs and efficient with the resources they share with us and generally be left

alone except when there's an emergency or crisis.

And I respect that.

And when I we talk about this retreat, what we what we saw is overwhelmingly economic development, jobs, and workforce development was the top priority emerging from this retreat. And what that stands for is not money. It's not greed. It represents opportunity.

And that's what people in the neighborhoods I serve and the people I know, my friends and family and I think most people throughout the city want.

They want opportunity.

Happiness begins with opportunity.

And the dignity of work and security of a good job helps to provide a foundation upon which individuals and families thrive and will thrive. and that is what we designated as our priority here and that is what I will share um emerging from the retreat.

Thank you Michael Hutch.

So, it was uh it's ironic that you asked this because last night I was at a meeting and um and I was asked sort of similar the same thing and um I said it I said it like this is how I answer a lot of the questions along this line is that you know I sat at a senior staff table all these directors to my left have their their teams and their that

they talk to you know on a week most of them on a weekly basis have a meeting or whatever and you don't want you don't want a bunch of yesmen, you know, just in your echo chamber or whatever telling you exactly what you want to hear. Um, sometimes the fire department got a little unruly on that message, but we all we tried and sometimes you have to meet consensus and sometimes you don't.

And that what I tried to do was have uh if something it was nine of us so if there was seven to two or something like that you know what we were talking about and I was one of the two I was like well okay I better re-evaluate this because there's a reason and you have to have trust to do that and I do feel like we are moving in that direction. Um, and I

told him last night as well that really our conversations and what we get to and and what we get accused of a lot and this part does bug me is is that you know when somebody's passionate about something that's speaking at the mic sometimes I'm not saying it's their truth but it's not necessarily backed up with empirical data and they don't know that we have a staff and directors and

everybody that is bringing us all the data.

and we've read it and then we've talked about it and everything else. So, these decisions are not just made willy-nilly, you know, we go into them with some real thought and process. And uh I try to tell everybody I'm not a politician. I'm a public servant. Um I think maybe other than seen in here, I'm probably the most senior person in the city as far as time served. Um maybe wrong Mark might have

me as well. But um every night I try to when we make the decisions I try to put my head down on the pillow knowing that I did the best I could with the tools I have and that that's what I think we are really trying to do um for this council.

We may disagree on the pay or the 101.

Um, but for most of our decisions, um, we get our data from our deputies and, uh, we we look at it and we work hard to make an informed decision and I'm I'm I'm that's what I try to share and it's what I'll continue to share.

It's not perfect, but government's not, right? So, thanks.

Thanks, Hutch.

Stacy, I guess I'm going to end where we started. And we started by looking at these buckets and we made the analogy of uh building a sand castle, building a city, um making that connection. And so the question that I was pulled out said, what's important to teach a child when they first start building sand castles?

So I said it's important to give them the purpose of building a sand castle and let them know that that sand castle is going to be an expression of themsel and it's going to be their sand castle.

But then on the other side, I didn't see this until later. It said, "What are your aspirations for continuing to build Virginia Beach's future?"

So that sparked a thought that what would I do if I was going to teach the child how to build a sand castle.

The very first thing I would do is I would take him by the hand and I would take him down to the Neptune Festival's sand castle exhibit on the last weekend of um September, which I encourage you all to do. And I would take my child and walk through that exhibit of all these incredible sand sculptures so that they would have an idea of what's possible.

Once they've seen that, they'll know that it takes a lot. It takes a lot of talent, takes a lot of energy, it takes a lot of resources to build something on that scale.

And then when they go back out to the beach and they see people playing around with their little buckets and building sand sand castles the best they know how, in their mind they're going to have this vision of what it could be of what the what a really outstanding sand castle or sculpture would be. So getting back to the city, I think that we've done a lot uh in the last day and

a half of looking at the uh the vision for the city, what it's going to take, what our resources are, what uh how we need to best deploy those resources, and what do we want the city to look like, not only today, but tomorrow and 40 years from now, 50 years from now, when our children are sitting here in these places. So, I think it's important to know that, yeah, we don't always agree

what we want the city to look like at the end of the day or how we're going to get there, but I think we all do agree that we want the city to be the best that we can be. We want it to be the best for for everyone, for every uh economic strata, for um for for each of the citizens of the city. We want it to be the best it could be. We want to

offer the best education. We know that not every child's going to be in a gifted program. We know that a lot of our resources are going to go to those that have uh learning disabilities and that's you that's great. That's what we need to offer. Um so, you know, I think that we have a great council that we all want us to do what it's going to take to get us there. And

as Hutch said, we're not always going to agree upon the best way to do it, but we're respectful and we need to continue that that it can't get personal, can't get political. Let's keep that vision of we what we want the city to be and let's aim high. Let's not let's not satisfy let's not be satisfied with um just good enough. Let's be the best we can be.

Thank you.

Good stuff, Rosemary.

Well, this has been a really wonderful retreat and I hope the public realizes like I do what a wonderful council we have.

Everyone here has the best intentions and we want to be the best city and you know sometimes we might go different ways to get there. The path may not all be the same but what we want to accomplish overall is it is the same. And I think we all came together really really well in this. And I did want to take a moment.

We're this is wonderful to look to the future. What we're going to do next 12 to 24 months, which is really important, but we're the policy makers. But the people who get this done and who has got us here in so many ways is our staff.

We have the most remarkable staff of anybody if any place in the country. Um, I know I personally brag about you all the time because you really are the best. There's a reason we've gotten the accolades of the best place, the best quality of life by Forbes magazine, best place to retire, the best place for women and raising a family, all of these different things. And it's it's I mean,

we're here. We're setting policy, but our staff and all of our employees are the ones that get it done. Our public safety keeps us the safe the safest city of our size and they're wonderful and our teachers our schools are so good because the people working in the schools. So this is not a village, it's a whole city full of people that really make us the great city that we are. So, I'm I'm real

enthused about moving forward and we've got a lot of things that we're we've accomplished today, but we've got a lot of things that have brought us to this point and and I think the leadership um Bobby, you do a great job. Appreciate you.

Thank you.

And um appreciate all of you and thank you for for this time together.

You know, once again, a hearty thanks to everybody. You know, uh, you know, it it's easy to be a leader when times are good, but it's challenging to be a leader, you know, when there are challenging times.

Virginia Beach is the largest city in I I'll tell you what, Worth, let me let you go for go ahead. We're just do a reflection on the last day and a half.

I think it's been two great days. We got a lot of discussed, a lot of priorities um all over the place, but you know, you've always said this and I agree with the chemistry here is really good. We're going to degree agree and disagree like we did both this morning and yesterday on a lot of different priorities and areas, but I think there's certainly a mutual respect, but uh people want

result, you know, the taxpayers want results. I want results, and that's what we're here to do is to try to make a difference. And I think we are okay. Thank you. Uh but you know, but once again, if you ever heard my stumps speech when I'm out there, you know, Virginia Beach is a great city. It's not because of the mayors because of the people. It's the people that live here.

It's the people that work here. It's the people that have their businesses here.

And it's the people that give their time, talent, and treasure. And there are so many people in Virginia Beach that do that. That's why we're considered the most caring city. You know, that's one I consider one of the best accolades that we could have. You know, we're the smallest large city.

There are so many connections in this city. We're a city of faith, of many faiths. And that's the glue that holds us together. And when it takes it, and you know, it was really an awakening for me when I transitioned from city councilman to mayor because then you see the inner workings of the real city. You find out all of the time a city manager, a city attorney and all the city staff

put their heart and soul. It's not a 9 to5 job and city clerk and you know and and city auditor and and assessor and you know the thing is a city of the size and magnitude I kind of describe it as a Swiss watch. It's got many little pieces that are all interconnected to make a fine movement that really, you know, puts together a quality product. And the thing is, I think what we want to take

away from here as Rosemary said, you know, we get accolades for having a quality of life. And I think the goal of what we have done over the last thing, the underlying thing was always that we have to maintain this. and we have to maintain it because our city not only deserves it, but they expect it. And I'll tell you what, when you look at some of the turmoil going around in the

cities around this nation and around this world, I I think we're doing pretty damn good. So, listen, thank you all.

God bless you. And uh you know, we'll continue this journey together and we'll be like Larry the Cable Got. We'll get it done. Thank you.

And uh how about a hand for our facilitator and her team?

We are adjourned.